View Full Version : The one thing I've found after making calls...
Monotaur
01-18-2012, 10:06 PM
Guys,
My wife and I have been making calls from PfH into early states and also locally to prep for our caucus in Colorado. Lately, we've been encountering a lot of pro-Romney support because "he is most electable", and the like. Usually, the most important issues reported are the economy, butting taxes and also personal rights (never more war). We've also encountered anti-Paul stuff, even among "Libertarian" Republicans. The common thread seems to be their hangup on Ron's perceived stance on foreign policy. I guess this is turning into a bit of a rant, but I really, really wish Ron would hammer home tomorrow night his stance on foreign policy in a good way that isn't easily spinnable. All he has to say is something like "If there is an actual threat to the US, we should win it decisively and come home. No nation building."... and don't get hung up on technicalities and over-complicate it. Unfortunately, people tend to vote emotionally and against someone. But I'm preaching to the choir.
How how everyone else's phone calls been going? I'm getting a bit discouraged. :(
bunklocoempire
01-18-2012, 10:14 PM
Bump and +rep. There are years of brainwashing you're dealing with, hang in there, and thank you!
Okie RP fan
01-18-2012, 10:16 PM
Thanks so much to you and your wife for calling.
And don't worry, many of us on here have been demanding a foreign policy ad. There's threads in this section, and there's one I started in the Campaign Suggestion section with points that need to be touched on in a one to one and a half minute ad.
The campaign really needs to cut us a break at some point with the foreign policy, though.
Releasing an ad that is viral worthy can begin the turn back in our favor.
GunnyFreedom
01-18-2012, 10:18 PM
From on-the-ground here in Charleston SC phonebanking and canvassing, THANK YOU for calling. It helps more than you know!
Franky6767
01-18-2012, 10:23 PM
Just made a comment in another thread about the exact same thing with foreign policy....IMO you are exactly right. Alot of support for Ron Paul in everyway in the low country but the foreign policy is killing him here with ALOT of people I talk to. He just needs to hammer that detail alittle and the tide would turn his way in a big way. Frustrating talking to some and they love his ideas only to have them hang up and not budge on that one detail.
EBounding
01-18-2012, 10:27 PM
Paul simply needs to explain his foreign policy just as well as his advisers and supporters. He needs to say what he will do; not just what he won't do.
Brian4Liberty
01-18-2012, 10:32 PM
Yeah, I have heard some of the "electability" and inevitability of Romney. Maybe that propaganda will take a hit if Santorum comes out as the actual winner of Iowa. We'll see.
kill the banks
01-18-2012, 10:37 PM
" All he has to say is something like "If there is an actual threat to the US, we should win it decisively and come home. No nation building."... and don't get hung up on technicalities and over-complicate it. Unfortunately, people tend to vote emotionally and against some one "
sounds like this should go into campaign suggestion box ! Because I feel we can win with our policy as polls indicate that people want out of wars generally
kusok
01-18-2012, 10:39 PM
aren't our mods with connections to someone who can at least related the message to campaign???
jacmicwag
01-18-2012, 10:41 PM
I hate to say this but you have to take Ron at face value for what he has already said. It may be who he is after so many years of fighting the war hawks. I'm not sure he can take a strong position or make a bold statment about kicking ass if we are attacked. As an anti-war vet, it really saddens me his intellectual position comes across as so weak.
unknown
01-18-2012, 10:42 PM
Keep in mind that the lists are scrubbed for Ron Paul supporters. So when we do find one, its a big score.
His foreign policy is relatively clear but the media has been spinning and misrepresenting his positions, to put it mildly: "Ron Paul wants Iran to have a nuke". :rolleyes:
Thats also where we come in. We have to help get the correct message out there whenever possible.
Monotaur
01-18-2012, 10:57 PM
Thanks for the encouragement everyone. I actually haven't found a single Ron Paul supporter in my precinct in Colorado (besides my wife and I), unfortunately. But I'll make more calls tomorrow and keep pushing.
As for what Ron needs to do, I know I'm preaching to the choir, like I've said. Unfortunately though, I think time is running out for Ron to reiterate his position fully before too many people get the idea that a Romney win is inevitable.
jacmicwag
01-18-2012, 11:07 PM
Thanks for the encouragement everyone. I actually haven't found a single Ron Paul supporter in my precinct in Colorado (besides my wife and I), unfortunately. But I'll make more calls tomorrow and keep pushing.
As for what Ron needs to do, I know I'm preaching to the choir, like I've said. Unfortunately though, I think time is running out for Ron to reiterate his position fully before too many people get the idea that a Romney win is inevitable.
Well, hang in there all the same. In 2008 we did the door to door canvas thing in our precinct and it took a few days to flush out supporters. In the end, we had 7 of the 15 folks who hung around after voting to be delegates for Paul. All of us made it in at that level.
Blue_Merle
01-18-2012, 11:23 PM
Lately, we've been encountering a lot of pro-Romney support because "he is most electable", and the like.
Thank you for all you have been doing.
You are not the first one to mention Ron Paul's Kryptonite -- Electability. This very likely may be the most direct cause of his loss.
Unfortunately the problem is that our grassroots aka THIS FORUM has a reputation of lashing out at any and all critics of the campaign on the Electability issue.
Doug Wead slings mud at the pundits about it, but that's it. So I would recommend keeping hush about that around here unless you want verbal lashings from the trolls.
J_White
01-18-2012, 11:37 PM
I really dont understand why Campaign does not have a conference or a written plan about Dr.Paul's FP views.
What are they waiting for and giving the media all it needs to spin the fact negatively ?
TheLasersShadow
01-18-2012, 11:47 PM
I sometimes think RP is just to inflexible and so stubbornly stuck to his core philosophy (what makes him great as well) is really going to be the reason he doesn't break through and get the populous football watching beer guzzeling non-book reading masses (harsh i know). I wish he would come out and just say something to appease the war hungry, something that wouldn't break his values but bend them a tad. I want to win I couldn't give a shit about purity at this point I really don't care. We're in dire economic straights heading into a collapse situation, as long as we know the core of a candidate screw it LIE TO THEM. We get held back on our side because we are righteous, we are the good guys ... we don't lie and tell the people want they want to hear then do what we want when we get in like every asshole in government does.
jacmicwag
01-18-2012, 11:57 PM
I sometimes think RP is just to inflexible and so stubbornly stuck to his core philosophy (what makes him great as well) is really going to be the reason he doesn't break through and get the populous football watching beer guzzeling non-book reading masses (harsh i know). I wish he would come out and just say something to appease the war hungry, something that wouldn't break his values but bend them a tad. I want to win I couldn't give a shit about purity at this point I really don't care. We're in dire economic straights heading into a collapse situation, as long as we know the core of a candidate screw it LIE TO THEM. We get held back on our side because we are righteous, we are the good guys ... we don't lie and tell the people want they want to hear then do what we want when we get in like every asshole in government does.
I'm certain that and more is within him. Not sure if he can change his own perspective to say those things even if he believes we have the right to fight back.
jctii0
01-18-2012, 11:59 PM
Thanks for the encouragement everyone. I actually haven't found a single Ron Paul supporter in my precinct in Colorado (besides my wife and I), unfortunately. But I'll make more calls tomorrow and keep pushing.
As for what Ron needs to do, I know I'm preaching to the choir, like I've said. Unfortunately though, I think time is running out for Ron to reiterate his position fully before too many people get the idea that a Romney win is inevitable.
What county are you in? Are you using VoterTracker? Also, even though you haven't found any RP supporters, if you're on decent terms with your neighbors, get them to vote for YOU, not RP. That's all that matters. Hopefully they will vote for you just because they like you and that you're "dedicated to getting Barack Obama out of office."
GunnyFreedom
01-19-2012, 09:32 AM
Keep in mind that the lists are scrubbed for Ron Paul supporters. So when we do find one, its a big score.
His foreign policy is relatively clear but the media has been spinning and misrepresenting his positions, to put it mildly: "Ron Paul wants Iran to have a nuke". :rolleyes:
Thats also where we come in. We have to help get the correct message out there whenever possible.
Truth. You don't have to find the 30% RPers because the RPers are not targeted, so any ONE you find is eeeeeenormous.
nayjevin
01-19-2012, 09:54 AM
I disagree with much of the analysis in this thread.
The campaign has put out foreign policy videos. The grassroots has as well. Ron has written books on the subject, and given speeches on the House floor. Plenty of resources are available. See here:
*** New to Ron Paul? *** Start here.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?339132
Additionally, we should not expect pro-war republicans to accept Ron's foreign policy in a day. It takes more than that, and more than one commercial. But each time a good point is made (in every debate he's made several) progress is made. Often folks are most against an idea just prior to accepting it.
The campaign is doing what it 'needs' to do. The resources are there, the tools are there. Ron has shown that he can convert folks to non-intervention like no one else in politics. We need nothing more than a continuation of this process.
Also remember, delegates are power. Iowa, with all its botched vote counting, has yet to determine delegates. If Romney is the 'inevitable' winner, then more folks will choose to stay home. There is much we have to be thankful for, most of which those supporters who continue as positive volunteers.
Fredom101
01-19-2012, 09:55 AM
Guys,
My wife and I have been making calls from PfH into early states and also locally to prep for our caucus in Colorado. Lately, we've been encountering a lot of pro-Romney support because "he is most electable", and the like. Usually, the most important issues reported are the economy, butting taxes and also personal rights (never more war). We've also encountered anti-Paul stuff, even among "Libertarian" Republicans. The common thread seems to be their hangup on Ron's perceived stance on foreign policy. I guess this is turning into a bit of a rant, but I really, really wish Ron would hammer home tomorrow night his stance on foreign policy in a good way that isn't easily spinnable. All he has to say is something like "If there is an actual threat to the US, we should win it decisively and come home. No nation building."... and don't get hung up on technicalities and over-complicate it. Unfortunately, people tend to vote emotionally and against someone. But I'm preaching to the choir.
How how everyone else's phone calls been going? I'm getting a bit discouraged. :(
Doubtful those same people even watch the debates. Mostly they are parroting what they here from the right wing wackos who control AM radio. RP has repeated his position on foreign policy thousands of times. They don't like it because they perceive that it would make them unsafe. Of course, the opposite is true. We just need to keep building consensus on RP's positions. People will eventually come around. The most important thing now is that Romney CAN'T WIN without Ron Paul voters, therefore he is unelectable. No RP votes will go to Romney in the general, so he's screwed.
A. Havnes
01-19-2012, 10:05 AM
All he has to say is something like "If there is an actual threat to the US, we should win it decisively and come home. No nation building."... and don't get hung up on technicalities and over-complicate it. Unfortunately, people tend to vote emotionally and against someone.
Exactly. Because Ron Paul always, in the minds of many voters, at least, makes America out to be a force of unrelenting evil when he talks foreign policy, people can spin him as being anti-America, or anti-Military. Worse, he can be labeled as anti-Israel as well. Instead of talking about blowback, he should talk about our role in the world and how that would change for the better.
I personally liked to be educated about blowback and the history of our foreign policy and how that comes back to affect us today. Heck, I've even written articles on it. However, for some people this just comes off as being anti-American and weak. Remember, George Bush won a humble foreign policy. He didn't educate anyone, but because of the way he stated his views, he managed to get the most votes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bC9kiOzZrw
Cyberbrain
01-19-2012, 10:20 AM
Doubtful those same people even watch the debates. Mostly they are parroting what they here from the right wing wackos who control AM radio. RP has repeated his position on foreign policy thousands of times. They don't like it because they perceive that it would make them unsafe. Of course, the opposite is true. We just need to keep building consensus on RP's positions. People will eventually come around. The most important thing now is that Romney CAN'T WIN without Ron Paul voters, therefore he is unelectable. No RP votes will go to Romney in the general, so he's screwed.
Exactly. People will eventually come around. Most people who don't like Ron Paul's FP are likely just regurgitating what they hear from their favorite radio host or news show because it's much easier than spending time doing research or taking time to critically think about the issue. It's really difficult to combat that in the short-run.
How about scripting Ron Paul's answer from the 1/16/12 debate:
SEIB: Congressman Paul, South Carolina has seven major military bases, and thousands of people employed in the defense industry. But you want to make major cuts in defense spending, several hundred billion dollars in the coming years, that inevitably would cost South Carolina jobs. What do you say to people in this state who worry that your military plans would hurt the national security and cost South Carolina jobs?
PAUL: I would say your — your question suggests you’re very confused about my position.
(APPLAUSE)
I want to cut money, overseas money. That’s what I want to do. I want to cut military money. I don’t want to cut defense money. I want to bring the troops home. I’d probably have more bases here at home. We were closing them down in the 1990s and building them overseas. That’s how we got into trouble.
PAUL: So we would save a lot more money and have a stronger national defense, and that’s what we should do. But to say that we would be weaker is absolutely wrong, because — and — and — and another important thing you should consider is the fact that the military is behind me more than the others. I get twice as much money from the…
(APPLAUSE)
… from the active military duties than all the other candidates put together. So they’re saying that I’m on the right track. They’re sick and tired of those wars. They’re sick and tired of the nation- building and the policing activity.
But to say that we would have less money for defense, we’d actually have more money. And if I may, I’d like to go back to the international financial thing.
SEIB: Congressman, just to be clear, your plan calls for freezing defense spending at 2006 levels, which is where –
PAUL: No, see, I — you still don’t understand.
BAIER: What is he missing, Congressman?
PAUL: You don’t understand there’s a difference between military spending and defense spending. Just because you spend a billion dollars on an embassy in Baghdad, bigger than the Vatican, you consider that defense spending. I consider that waste.
(APPLAUSE)
PAUL: So if you want to — a little while ago we were talking about funding the unemployed — and of course that should be privatized and I don’t support it — but I don’t support cutting it off like that. I would cut some of this military spending like Eisenhower advises, watch out for the military industrial complex. Defend this country. We have to have a strong national defense, but we don’t get strength by diluting ourselves in 900 bases in 130 countries. That is where the problem is.
But you need to understand that there is a difference between just military spending and defense spending, just to spend money. We understand this domestically. If you spend more money domestically, we know it’s wrong, but we are supposed to spend more money and that’s conservative. I’ve never quite understood this. We are supposed to be conservatives. Spend less money.
(APPLAUSE)
http://foxnewsinsider.com/2012/01/17/transcript-fox-news-channel-wall-street-journal-debate-in-south-carolina/
hazek
01-19-2012, 10:26 AM
Propaganda always wins vs reason, it's just how human nature works. I told you the corporate media propaganda machine would render everything we do irrelevant if we didn't first deal with it but you didn't listen. Now it's too late and the game all but over.
maxoutco
01-19-2012, 10:27 AM
ROmney is really pumped up here in Colorado. Like there is no other alternative. 850 KOA are huge Romney supporters. It's sickening.
Schiff_FTW
01-19-2012, 10:31 AM
Propaganda always wins vs reason, it's just how human nature works. I told you the corporate media propaganda machine would render everything we do irrelevant if we didn't first deal with it but you didn't listen. Now it's too late and the game all but over.
You are constantly harping about this yet I've never seen you suggest any type of solution that is actually within the capacity of the grassroots.
jctii0
01-19-2012, 10:35 AM
The thing is, it doesn't matter if Romney is doing well here or not. I mean it certainly would be better if Ron was doing great, but it doesn't have to be that way. You are getting your neighbors to vote for you, not Ron. If they like you enough, they will probably vote for you.
Bring your neigbors.
Stay for the whole caucus.
Volunteer to be delegate under the ideas of less government, lower taxes, defeating Barack Obama and any other ideas gathered from phone surveys (typical Republican talking points).
Show that you're dedicated and can attend the county/state assemblies.
Nowhere do we need them to support Ron Paul. We can win this in Colorado.
RonPaul101.com
01-19-2012, 10:39 AM
Paul simply needs to explain his foreign policy just as well as his advisers and supporters. He needs to say what he will do; not just what he won't do.
THIS
hazek
01-19-2012, 10:57 AM
You are constantly harping about this yet I've never seen you suggest any type of solution that is actually within the capacity of the grassroots.
Just because you haven't seen it, doesn't mean I haven't made suggestions. So unless you read every single post I made in the last 2 years, feel free to STFU.
matt0611
01-19-2012, 11:02 AM
I've been saying for over a month that our perceived "electability" and perceived foreign policy are hurting us badly. I'm still waiting for the campaign to do something about it...
Schiff_FTW
01-19-2012, 11:14 AM
Just because you haven't seen it, doesn't mean I haven't made suggestions. So unless you read every single post I made in the last 2 years, feel free to STFU.
Again you fail to present any viable suggestion, but you sure do love to complain.
wowrevolution
01-19-2012, 11:18 AM
Sadly a lot of people do not realize that due to the endorsements from Bush & McCain that Romney will be portrayed as a just a Bush-era throwback and is the most unelectable candidate.
Justinfrom1776
01-19-2012, 11:21 AM
I wish Paul would lay down Foreign Policy like this: "We do have a nanny state, Newt referred to the president as a "Food Stamp President" the truth is we've had a lot of food stamp presidents lately and we've created a society where the citizens are dependent on the government, we've done the same in the world with foreign aid and military aid. As president I would work with our allies to draw down our presence in places like S. Korea, Japan, Germany etc.. While they strengthen their defense capabilities we could come home. It's time to lift the WWII era restrictions on Japan and Germany, allowing them to be independent and defend their countries, this would be a gradual process and American defense industries could profit a great deal from it, creating 1000's of jobs all the while reducing our role in their countries and saving the U.S. taxpayer billions.
Captain Shays
01-19-2012, 12:05 PM
Paul simply needs to explain his foreign policy just as well as his advisers and supporters. He needs to say what he will do; not just what he won't do.
This is the message we need to get to the campaign ASAP. If he does that and does it well he WILL WIN. We have them on non interventionism. We have them on the economy. We have them on personal liberty. We have them on gun rights, abortion, taxes, the 10th Amendment but we don't have them on a STRONG national defense and how we will remain not only safe and secure but remaining the top dog badass on the block. We don't want a pussy to be our president. We want an alpha male kick ass dude who won't take any snit off anybody. I do believe Ron Paul is that sort of guy just in a statesman sort of way. Thats great because we also want temporence, wisdom, discipline, restraint and prudence. All that is missing right now is STRENGTH. Or at least the appearance of strength.
Monotaur
01-20-2012, 12:07 AM
What county are you in? Are you using VoterTracker? Also, even though you haven't found any RP supporters, if you're on decent terms with your neighbors, get them to vote for YOU, not RP. That's all that matters. Hopefully they will vote for you just because they like you and that you're "dedicated to getting Barack Obama out of office."
I'm in Boulder county, ironically. And what you outlined is what I'm thinking I should do. I think I'm going to stop calling everyone on the VoterTracker list and just aim for the target demographic and then try to get neighbors to caucus for me.
nicname
01-20-2012, 12:22 AM
Good facts to point out.
1. Not trying to freeze defense spending. Wants to go back to 2006 levels and have 1.5% increases after
2. Not withdrawing from the international stage. We would still have plenty of NAVY/AF presence all over the world in international waters.
3. We would still have the ability to transport a large fighting force anywhere in the world in 13 hours.
4. Not advocating downsizing of the troops, just a relocation out of expensive occupations to bases at home, creating a strong presence here.
jctii0
01-20-2012, 01:01 AM
I'm in Boulder county, ironically. And what you outlined is what I'm thinking I should do. I think I'm going to stop calling everyone on the VoterTracker list and just aim for the target demographic and then try to get neighbors to caucus for me.
You can still call all the people in your precinct. My strategy is to phone survey them and then when I knock on their door to tell them that I'm running for delegate and then express my support for the issues that they mentioned in the survey (without ever mentioning Ron Paul, if they're not a Ron Paul supporter). If I wasn't able to get any info from them, I'll just parrot typical Republican talking points.
FYI, not sure if you've been to the Denver RP HQ, but there's a mock caucus this Saturday at noon. It's extremely helpful and they give you a complete script that you could even use for caucus if necessary. I'll be there this Saturday to check things out.
Monotaur
01-23-2012, 10:38 PM
You can still call all the people in your precinct. My strategy is to phone survey them and then when I knock on their door to tell them that I'm running for delegate and then express my support for the issues that they mentioned in the survey (without ever mentioning Ron Paul, if they're not a Ron Paul supporter). If I wasn't able to get any info from them, I'll just parrot typical Republican talking points.
FYI, not sure if you've been to the Denver RP HQ, but there's a mock caucus this Saturday at noon. It's extremely helpful and they give you a complete script that you could even use for caucus if necessary. I'll be there this Saturday to check things out.
Great, thanks. I wasn't able to make it last weekend but I'm planning on going this weekend.
When you call for VoterID, do you say at the end that the call was paid for by Ron Paul 2012 PCC? Have you found any supporters in your precinct yet?
GunnyFreedom
01-23-2012, 10:42 PM
Military and logistic technology has increased to the point where withdrawing ground troops to the US, possessions and outlying territories will not degrade our response time and force projection capabilities, and will actually increase our readiness though a reduction in op tempo, reducing material, equipment, and personnel fatigue.
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