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Anti Federalist
01-17-2012, 09:27 AM
Lock up your dogs, lock up your deer, they be shooting everything up in this mf'er...



Police Kill Deer Cared for by Forest Lake Family; DNR Defends Decision

http://kstp.com/news/stories/s2455303.shtml

A furious and heartbroken Forest Lake family wants answers after police shot and killed two deer they'd come to care for in their own backyard.

The Carpenter family--Jeff and LeeAnn--fed them, named them, and put collars on the deer they encountered for the first time last summer as fawns. They suspected the two had been orphaned.

flightlesskiwi
01-17-2012, 09:32 AM
i wonder when this protocol creeps into federal-run healthcare. or if it's already there.


Salo says no rules were circumvented and no laws were broken in the deaths of Pinky and Abby. He says the DNR can't capture the deer first, and then test the animals for disease. In order to determine if an animal is infected it must be destroyed first. That's protocol.

Anti Federalist
01-17-2012, 09:40 AM
i wonder when this protocol creeps into federal-run healthcare. or if it's already there.

Already there.

Count on it.

Krugerrand
01-17-2012, 09:49 AM
First off, given the destruction they impart on my garden, I have a hard time lamenting the loss of some deer.

Second, I have a hard time disagreeing with their logic ... deer running around with collars should raise suspicions.

Now, when I read the story, I find it mighty suspicious that the police just 'happened' to find the deer in their yard. I have a great dislike in police shooting at things in somebody's yard - especially without notifying them first. It sounds a lot more to me like a neighbor called in a complaint.

Lots of things could have made this better
- DON'T TREAT WILD ANIMALS AS PETS!
- Neighbor stops by and says 'hey doofus, stop treating wild animals as pets.'
- Cop shows up at the house and says 'hey doofus, stop treating wild animals as pets.'
- Cop shows up a second time and says ''hey doofus, stop treating wild animals as pets, or they're going to get shot.'
- Cop shoot deer somewhere other than the person's yard.

123tim
01-17-2012, 09:54 AM
Shooting those deer so close to that house. I can't imagine it.

I guess that "authorities" can just go anywhere without permission now?

I would have assumed that some sort of a warrant would be needed for this.

Krugerrand
01-17-2012, 10:00 AM
I'd like to get Icymudpuppy's take on this one.

A. Havnes
01-17-2012, 10:03 AM
Minnesota is awful when it comes to what you can and cannot own as a "pet". Really, you're not allowed to have pretty much anything that's not a cat, dog, or farm animal, which is odd because it is specifically the private ownership of exotic animals (zoos are private, but they can't do it on their own) that keeps these animals from extinction. Sure, there are people who can't care for them or meet their needs as "wild" animals, but they are the minority.

Now, a deer is neither facing extinction, nor was it bought from a private breeder. However, I really see nothing wrong with what this family has done. You might think they're stupid for taking in wild animals, but I probably would have done the same. Minnesota is way too liberal and regulated. I mean, we are easily most business hostile state in the nation, and those of us who live here have no freedoms, really.

Krugerrand
01-17-2012, 10:10 AM
Minnesota is awful when it comes to what you can and cannot own as a "pet". Really, you're not allowed to have pretty much anything that's not a cat, dog, or farm animal, which is odd because it is specifically the private ownership of exotic animals (zoos are private, but they can't do it on their own) that keeps these animals from extinction. Sure, there are people who can't care for them or meet their needs as "wild" animals, but they are the minority.

Now, a deer is neither facing extinction, nor was it bought from a private breeder. However, I really see nothing wrong with what this family has done. You might think they're stupid for taking in wild animals, but I probably would have done the same. Minnesota is way too liberal and regulated. I mean, we are easily most business hostile state in the nation, and those of us who live here have no freedoms, really.

My understanding is that they did not "take the animals in" they simply fed them and 'befriended' them - to the point of they put collars on the wild deer. The reason given for shooting them was that they were thought to be domesticated deer in the wild.

KingNothing
01-17-2012, 10:13 AM
This happened to a friend of mine before. His kids all cried as it happened. He wasn't pleased.

Icymudpuppy
01-17-2012, 11:13 AM
I would have responded sooner, but grid power is out, and the generator's priority is the freezers. Computer is off, so here I am typing on the blackberry.

Lots of problems here.

1. Let animals be wild. if you want them to be free, wtf are you putting a collar on them for?

2. If you want to domesticate them, then learn how to keep your pets and livestock on your own property. I kill a lot of dogs that are out killing deer. I kill a lot of cats that are out killing songbirds, and I kill a lot of Raccoons that idiots are feeding.

3. The biggest problem with farm raised cervids is chronic wasting disease. A brain sample is necessary to get an accurate test. Since wildlife managers are legitimally charged with managing the health of wild populations, limiting the spread of such diseases is critical. That means strictly preventing domestic and wild populations from intermingling.

4. Certainly, this sort of task should not be done by cops. The wildlife managers should be directly involved in such actions. Thus, an appropriate professional with wildlife knowledge could assess the situation.

5. If the animals have to be put down, its best not to do it in view. I always do such actions either on the property of a complainant, or in a remote area out of public view.

5. Just so you know, I am a private nuisance wildlife control operator who mostly works for private property owners, but occasionally also contracts with local governments.

123tim
01-17-2012, 11:43 AM
I would have responded sooner, but grid power is out, and the generator's priority is the freezers. Computer is off, so here I am typing on the blackberry.

Lots of problems here.

1. Let animals be wild. if you want them to be free, wtf are you putting a collar on them for?

2. If you want to domesticate them, then learn how to keep your pets and livestock on your own property. I kill a lot of dogs that are out killing deer. I kill a lot of cats that are out killing songbirds, and I kill a lot of Raccoons that idiots are feeding.

3. The biggest problem with farm raised cervids is chronic wasting disease. A brain sample is necessary to get an accurate test. Since wildlife managers are legitimally charged with managing the health of wild populations, limiting the spread of such diseases is critical. That means strictly preventing domestic and wild populations from intermingling.

4. Certainly, this sort of task should not be done by cops. The wildlife managers should be directly involved in such actions. Thus, an appropriate professional with wildlife knowledge could assess the situation.

5. If the animals have to be put down, its best not to do it in view. I always do such actions either on the property of a complainant, or in a remote area out of public view.

5. Just so you know, I am a private nuisance wildlife control operator who mostly works for private property owners, but occasionally also contracts with local governments.


Thank you for that.

I was wondering if you have ever put down an animal in this way.
Surely the landowner should be contacted first?

oyarde
01-17-2012, 11:46 AM
Too many cops if they have time for this , time to cut back and save the public some money .

Icymudpuppy
01-17-2012, 12:25 PM
Thank you for that.

I was wondering if you have ever put down an animal in this way.


I have put down many animals that were either, severely injured, obviously diseased, a direct nuisance, or overly aggressive.



Surely the landowner should be contacted first?

The property owner should always be aware of what's happening on their property. I only put animals down with permission of the owner or manager of the property on which the animal is at that time. I have shot Coyotes at city parks, Raccoons at apartment complexes and backyards, dogs and cats on public land and at the request of private landowners. 4 years ago, I shot a Chow dog that was killing a Veterinarian's livestock rabbits. The Chow belonged to a neighbor who let it run free. I've killed all kinds of things under houses and in attics, so far, the only deer I've put down as part of work were those that were injured and it was a mercy killing. We don't have CWD in Western Washington, and our blacktail populations aren't out of control like the whitetails back east. I do harvest one blacktail each year to keep meat in the freezer.

luctor-et-emergo
01-17-2012, 12:32 PM
This is how they handle things over here in the Netherlands;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8CfKzbzlHI&feature=player_embedded

We have a government that thinks it can manage how many animals live where etc. and this causes more and more problems with animals breaking out of the small patches of land allocated to them... There have been days the news was screaming about 'wild boar terror'... And then you see those little piggies running for the camera crew...

PS: we have no 2nd amendment, gun ownership is restricted very much, yet they seem to have no problem shooting at moving targets inside neighborhoods, the authorities that is...

oyarde
01-17-2012, 12:36 PM
This is how they handle things over here in the Netherlands;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8CfKzbzlHI&feature=player_embedded

We have a government that thinks it can manage how many animals live where etc. and this causes more and more problems with animals breaking out of the small patches of land allocated to them... There have been days the news was screaming about 'wild boar terror'... And then you see those little piggies running for the camera crew...Little piggies are tasty.

Krugerrand
01-17-2012, 12:40 PM
Little piggies are tasty.

I'm Dick Morris, and I approve this message.

http://images.politico.com/global/news/100924_dick_morris_605_ap.jpg

(sorry, couldn't resist)

oyarde
01-17-2012, 12:42 PM
I'm Dick Morris, and I approve this message.

http://images.politico.com/global/news/100924_dick_morris_605_ap.jpg

(sorry, couldn't resist) LOL

Icymudpuppy
01-17-2012, 01:19 PM
This is how they handle things over here in the Netherlands;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8CfKzbzlHI&feature=player_embedded

We have a government that thinks it can manage how many animals live where etc. and this causes more and more problems with animals breaking out of the small patches of land allocated to them... There have been days the news was screaming about 'wild boar terror'... And then you see those little piggies running for the camera crew...

PS: we have no 2nd amendment, gun ownership is restricted very much, yet they seem to have no problem shooting at moving targets inside neighborhoods, the authorities that is...

For someone that probably never handled a firearm until he got a job requiring it. That fellow made a clean kill, and was very professional about it. I wonder who gets the venison.

123tim
01-17-2012, 01:54 PM
This is how they handle things over here in the Netherlands;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8CfKzbzlHI&feature=player_embedded

We have a government that thinks it can manage how many animals live where etc. and this causes more and more problems with animals breaking out of the small patches of land allocated to them... There have been days the news was screaming about 'wild boar terror'... And then you see those little piggies running for the camera crew...

PS: we have no 2nd amendment, gun ownership is restricted very much, yet they seem to have no problem shooting at moving targets inside neighborhoods, the authorities that is...





Wow,
I was sort of surprised when the camera panned up to reveal the apartment complex behind that shot.:eek:
No worse than shooting two deer in a persons yard without even notifying them though.

123tim
01-17-2012, 01:57 PM
I have put down many animals that were either, severely injured, obviously diseased, a direct nuisance, or overly aggressive.

The property owner should always be aware of what's happening on their property. I only put animals down with permission of the owner or manager of the property on which the animal is at that time. I have shot Coyotes at city parks, Raccoons at apartment complexes and backyards, dogs and cats on public land and at the request of private landowners. 4 years ago, I shot a Chow dog that was killing a Veterinarian's livestock rabbits. The Chow belonged to a neighbor who let it run free. I've killed all kinds of things under houses and in attics, so far, the only deer I've put down as part of work were those that were injured and it was a mercy killing. We don't have CWD in Western Washington, and our blacktail populations aren't out of control like the whitetails back east. I do harvest one blacktail each year to keep meat in the freezer.


Sounds like you're doing things right. :)

Bodhi
01-17-2012, 02:31 PM
I would sure like to be notified before someone decides to discharge their weapon on my property. I don't own a gun but if I was a person that did and heard gunshots just outside of my home, well... I can imagine things going bad in a hurry. I do feel bad about the deer, but there are some good points in this thread about treating wild animals as pets.

Agorism
01-17-2012, 02:50 PM
I'm Dick Morris, and I approve this message.

http://images.politico.com/global/news/100924_dick_morris_605_ap.jpg

(sorry, couldn't resist)


http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a277/lovegunner/Batman/snapshot20090103231925.jpg

Icymudpuppy
01-17-2012, 03:34 PM
Sounds like you're doing things right. :)

I'm private. Bad press reflects directly on my bottom line.

NewsFlash420
01-17-2012, 09:31 PM
My thoughts exactly

Mani
01-18-2012, 09:38 AM
So there's another thread a out the inability to kill rats and vermin in DC due to humane society type regulations. They are worried disease carrying vermin are gonna eventually spread like crazy due to some insane regulation that doesn't allow u to kill certain types of rats.

And here we have cops shooting down bambi's sisters in somebody's backyard like their fugitives due to some government agency's request.


It's just so bizarre....

oyarde
01-18-2012, 11:02 AM
If I ever see a couple of deer with dog collars , I would laugh .