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guysenjem
01-15-2012, 09:15 PM
So far he has completely missed on this issue. Saying minorities disproportional incarcerated for crime and put to death is just not true. Per amount of crime committed whites are actually imprisoned and executed at higher rate. When he says this he sounds soft on crime - especially serious crime that would
warrant a death penalty. His best response is to simply dismiss it in the shortest fashion. His talking points should be: 1) There are 8 racial blurbs from
three newsletters over about three decade period - put it in perspective - you could practically read newsletters all day long and not find anything racist.
2) He didn't write them and didn't know about them until years later. 3) He disavows them. End of story.

Going on and on about how much you love MLK and Rosa Parks is like saying "I'm not racist because I have black friends." While it maybe true, it just makes
those accusing you of racism even madder. Besides, those people looking to play the race card and looking to be offended aren't going to vote for Ron Paul anyway. They are going to vote Democrat. It's best to be strong, brief, and decisive.

Jtorsella
01-15-2012, 09:17 PM
Ron is absolutely right on the drug war. Minorities are imprisoned at a higher rate then their share of using drugs.

guysenjem
01-15-2012, 09:38 PM
And where do you get your stats? I guess I grew up in rural white america and saw virtually no drug use. Perhaps, the times have changed since the 80's but when you look at the drug related street crime and gang crime it almost 100% minority even today. That's just what I see. Besides that has nothing to do with the death penalty. If he was commenting just about possession of illegal drugs then fine, but he talked about all crime and the death penalty - which means violent crime. It makes him look weak.

heavenlyboy34
01-15-2012, 09:42 PM
And where do you get your stats? I guess I grew up in rural white america and saw virtually no drug use. Perhaps, the times have changed since the 80's but when you look at the drug related street crime and gang crime it almost 100% minority even today. That's just what I see. Besides that has nothing to do with the death penalty. If he was commenting just about possession of illegal drugs then fine, but he talked about all crime and the death penalty - which means violent crime. It makes him look weak. The FBI is one source. There are numerous others. Google is your friend.
http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/2009/mar/06/race_blacks_arrested_drug_charge
As if we needed further confirmation that the war on drugs is racially biased in outcome, the human rights group Human Rights Watch released a report Monday showing that blacks have been arrested nationwide for drug offenses at significantly higher rates than whites for at least the past three decades. Whites and blacks engage in drug offenses at similar rates, but blacks were 2.8 to 5.5 times more likely to be arrested than whites in every year between 1980 and 2007.
The report, Decades of Disparity: Drug Arrests and Race in the United States (http://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/reports/us0309web_1.pdf), was based on the FBI's annual Uniform Crime Reports. In addition to national arrest figures, the report provides state by state comparisons of arrest numbers and rates.
More than 25.4 million people have been arrested on drug charges since 1980, the analysis found. About one-third of them were black, although African-Americans make up only about 13% of the population and 13% of drug users.
"Jim Crow may be dead, but the drug war has never been color-blind," said Jamie Fellner, senior counsel with Human Rights Watch's US Program and author of the report. "Although whites and blacks use and sell drugs, the heavy hand of the law is more likely to fall on black shoulders."
And modern day Jim Crow is popping up in some unexpected places. States where blacks are arrested at much greater rates than whites for drug offenses include Oregon, where blacks are 6.0 times as likely to be arrested as whites, West Virginia (6.9 times), Wisconsin (7.1 times), Pennsylvania and Nebraska (7.2 times), North Dakota (8.2 times), Vermont (8.6 times), Kentucky (9.9 times), and Minnesota, where blacks are 11.3 times as likely to get arrested for drugs as whites.
The report also says that arrests for drug possession have greatly exceeded arrests for drug sales every year since 1980. Indeed, the proportion of drug arrests for possession has been increasing, amounting to 80% or more annually since 1999. And marijuana possession arrests are a major driver of the overall figure. Between 2000 and 2007, simple pot possession arrests alone accounted for between 37.7% and 42.1% of all drug arrests.
"Hauling hundreds of thousands of people down to the station house each year because they have some weed or a rock of crack cocaine in their pocket has had little impact on drug use," said Fellner. "But the stigma of a drug arrest, especially if followed by a conviction, limits employment, education and housing opportunities. A more effective, less destructive drug policy would prioritize treatment, education, and positive social investments in poor communities over arrest and incarceration."
Human Rights Watch strongly recommended reducing the disparity in drug arrests -- but not by arresting more white people. Instead, it suggested it was time for a "fresh and evidence-based rethinking of the drug war paradigm." It called on all levels of government to:


Restructure funding and resource allocation priorities to place more emphasis on substance abuse treatment and prevention outreach, and less on drug law enforcement;
Review and revise drug sentencing laws to increase the use of community-based sanctions for drug offenses and to eliminate mandatory minimum sentences for them;
Conduct comprehensive analyses of racial disparities in all phases of drug law enforcement to devise ways to ensure the enforcement of drug laws does not disproportionately burden black communities;
Assess the extent to which considerations of race may influence police decision-making, including decisions regarding the neighborhoods in which police are deployed for drug law enforcement purposes and whom to arrest, particularly for low level offenses such as simple drug possession; and
Monitor patterns in pedestrian and vehicle stops and other police activities to determine if unwarranted racial disparities exist that suggest racial profiling or other race-based decision-making and to take appropriate action to eliminate racially disparate treatment.

guysenjem
01-15-2012, 10:13 PM
Google "the color of crime" and you will find irrefutable FBI stats that absolutely show that minorities are much more prone to crime. We need to be able to speak the truth
instead of the mainstream media political correctness. Yes, blacks are arrested more, but they most definitely commit more crime in proportion to population. That's just
the truth that we all know but are afraid to speak.

Occam's Banana
01-15-2012, 10:18 PM
Saying minorities disproportional incarcerated for crime and put to death is just not true. Per amount of crime committed whites are actually imprisoned and executed at higher rate.

All other things being equal, minorities (and especially blacks) are more likely than whites to be:

1) convicted of a given crime
2) sentenced to longer periods (among those convicted of the same crime)
3) executed at a higher rate (among those convicted of the same capital crime)


When he says this he sounds soft on crime - especially serious crime that would warrant a death penalty.

Ron Paul opposes the death penalty.



His best response is to simply dismiss it in the shortest fashion. His talking points should be: 1) There are 8 racial blurbs from
three newsletters over about three decade period - put it in perspective - you could practically read newsletters all day long and not find anything racist.
2) He didn't write them and didn't know about them until years later. 3) He disavows them. End of story.

Except for your #1 item, this is what he is already doing.



Going on and on about how much you love MLK and Rosa Parks is like saying "I'm not racist because I have black friends." While it maybe true, it just makes
those accusing you of racism even madder. Besides, those people looking to play the race card and looking to be offended aren't going to vote for Ron Paul anyway. They are going to vote Democrat. It's best to be strong, brief, and decisive.

He isn't trying to convert liberal race-card players by "going on and on" (:confused:) about those things.

He is trying to inform those who have more open minds about his true positions & beliefs.

guysenjem
01-16-2012, 06:24 AM
Those who do real crime (violent) should be convicted of it. Everyone knows more blacks and certain other minorities are incarcerated more than whites but that is because they are actually committing more crime. That's not unfair in any way. It's affirmative action applied to the Justice system. It would be
morally and intellectually wrong to let go of criminals just because you have "too many" of a certain race. How disrespectful to victims of crime would that
be. Again, I am not talking about drug possession crime - but the stats are comparable.

guysenjem
01-16-2012, 06:36 AM
Can anyone honestly say that they felt completely comfortable and satisfied with the way RP answered the questions on this issue? He looked unnatural and defensive.
They will continue to attack this weak spot unless he changes his style of answering this question. He is acting more like Don Imus and Kramer. His answer can't be "well I'm going to release a bunch of black violent criminals because not enough evil rich white people are in jail." How did that go over for Haley barbour? If anyone thinks RP is
going to get the black vote against Obama they are fooling themselves. Talking about not having enough "white" people in prison is offensive and alienates his base which like it or not has a lack of melanin (and that's OK).

thoughtomator
01-16-2012, 06:42 AM
another person who has nothing but worries

worry worry worry

doesn't seem to get excited at good news though, wonder why that is?

guysenjem
01-16-2012, 07:03 AM
another person who has nothing but worries

worry worry worry

doesn't seem to get excited at good news though, wonder why that is?

The thread title is "campaign suggestions" not mindless campaign cheer leading. But then again you are the thought police here I guess.

wistfulthinker
01-16-2012, 07:47 AM
So far he has completely missed on this issue. Saying minorities disproportional incarcerated for crime and put to death is just not true. Per amount of crime committed whites are actually imprisoned and executed at higher rate. When he says this he sounds soft on crime - especially serious crime that would
warrant a death penalty. His best response is to simply dismiss it in the shortest fashion. His talking points should be: 1) There are 8 racial blurbs from
three newsletters over about three decade period - put it in perspective - you could practically read newsletters all day long and not find anything racist.
2) He didn't write them and didn't know about them until years later. 3) He disavows them. End of story.

Going on and on about how much you love MLK and Rosa Parks is like saying "I'm not racist because I have black friends." While it maybe true, it just makes
those accusing you of racism even madder. Besides, those people looking to play the race card and looking to be offended aren't going to vote for Ron Paul anyway. They are going to vote Democrat. It's best to be strong, brief, and decisive.

I agree with you that Paul has not done well with the newsletter stuff. And I agree that bringing up his desire to end the drug war isn't a satisfying response. But I according to deathpenalty.org (http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/documents/FactSheet.pdf), black people accounted for 35 percent of those executed in 2011, while white people accounted for 55 percent. Given that blacks are about 12 percent of the population, according to the census, they are executed at a significantly higher proportional rate than whites. I know the stats get complicated when you adjust for the ratio of blacks to whites imprisoned and then you get into discussions of racial justice in arrest rates and conviction rates. But we still have a system that kills blacks at a higher proportional rate than whites. When you look at stats about interracial murder, only 17 white people who murdered black people were executed last year. While 254 black people who murdered white people were executed.

I also agree with guysenjem that Paul response about black heroes is equally unsatisfying.

Occam's Banana
01-16-2012, 09:09 AM
another person who has nothing but worries

worry worry worry

doesn't seem to get excited at good news though, wonder why that is?

Hmmm. I wonder, too.

I'm starting to get some pretty strong blips on my "concern troll" radar.

guysenjem
01-16-2012, 10:13 AM
I agree with you that Paul has not done well with the newsletter stuff. And I agree that bringing up his desire to end the drug war isn't a satisfying response. But I according to deathpenalty.org (http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/documents/FactSheet.pdf), black people accounted for 35 percent of those executed in 2011, while white people accounted for 55 percent. Given that blacks are about 12 percent of the population, according to the census, they are executed at a significantly higher proportional rate than whites. I know the stats get complicated when you adjust for the ratio of blacks to whites imprisoned and then you get into discussions of racial justice in arrest rates and conviction rates. But we still have a system that kills blacks at a higher proportional rate than whites. When you look at stats about interracial murder, only 17 white people who murdered black people were executed last year. While 254 black people who murdered white people were executed.

I also agree with guysenjem that Paul response about black heroes is equally unsatisfying.

Have you looked at the rates of what race actually commits more homicides? Are suggesting that even though whites commit far less than 55% of homicides that the
execution rate should be 70% white? Huh? Please explain why more whites should get executed? That's an extremely racist point of view. Blacks commit over well over
50% of non-accidental homicides and yet according to your stats only 35% of executions are of black people. The truth trumps EVERYTHING. We must embrace the
truth.

As for the higher execution rate per white victim vs. black victim that is because the black victim is more likely to have a black murderer and the white victim is more
likely to have a white murderer. Your stats prove my point.

guysenjem
01-16-2012, 10:26 AM
Hmmm. I wonder, too.

I'm starting to get some pretty strong blips on my "concern troll" radar.

Shut your mouth, thought police. You call me a troll because you can't form an intelligent argument. Good grief your a flake. Is this site infiltrated by people trying to
scare new members away? Please do something to get rid of these name-calling thought police.

tttppp
01-16-2012, 03:16 PM
And where do you get your stats? I guess I grew up in rural white america and saw virtually no drug use. Perhaps, the times have changed since the 80's but when you look at the drug related street crime and gang crime it almost 100% minority even today. That's just what I see. Besides that has nothing to do with the death penalty. If he was commenting just about possession of illegal drugs then fine, but he talked about all crime and the death penalty - which means violent crime. It makes him look weak.

There are lots of rich white towns with serious drug problems. My town is one of them.

tttppp
01-16-2012, 03:21 PM
So far he has completely missed on this issue. Saying minorities disproportional incarcerated for crime and put to death is just not true. Per amount of crime committed whites are actually imprisoned and executed at higher rate. When he says this he sounds soft on crime - especially serious crime that would
warrant a death penalty. His best response is to simply dismiss it in the shortest fashion. His talking points should be: 1) There are 8 racial blurbs from
three newsletters over about three decade period - put it in perspective - you could practically read newsletters all day long and not find anything racist.
2) He didn't write them and didn't know about them until years later. 3) He disavows them. End of story.

Going on and on about how much you love MLK and Rosa Parks is like saying "I'm not racist because I have black friends." While it maybe true, it just makes
those accusing you of racism even madder. Besides, those people looking to play the race card and looking to be offended aren't going to vote for Ron Paul anyway. They are going to vote Democrat. It's best to be strong, brief, and decisive.

I agree that Ron Paul should emphasize that there were only a handful of comments made out of tens of thousands of pages. One thing he may want to add is that the newsletter was not losing him money so there was no reason to audit it or take a more active role. Also he should mention that he did not get complaints about the newsletter so had no reason to audit it for racist statements.

acptulsa
01-16-2012, 03:24 PM
Google "the color of crime" and you will find irrefutable FBI stats that absolutely show that minorities are much more prone to crime. We need to be able to speak the truth
instead of the mainstream media political correctness. Yes, blacks are arrested more, but they most definitely commit more crime in proportion to population. That's just
the truth that we all know but are afraid to speak.

Bull.

Come on, now, and do the other half. Tell us about how all the people of African descent who are serving in the military aren't really patriotic. I dare you.

We're all set to pwn a Stormfront troll today. No problem.


Shut your mouth, thought police. You call me a troll because you can't form an intelligent argument. Good grief your a flake. Is this site infiltrated by people trying to
scare new members away? Please do something to get rid of these name-calling thought police.

The thought police haven't come for you yet. You'll know when they have when you have trouble logging in and see 'Banned' under your name.

dannno
01-16-2012, 03:28 PM
I guess I grew up in rural white america and saw virtually no drug use.

Nearly everyone in my high school dropped acid and smoked herb (at some point), this was during the 90s.

Nearly everyone in my high school was white.

Getting alcohol is hard because it is relatively big and heavy (especially beer). This makes it harder to hide from cops and transport. And you have to show ID.

Getting drugs is easy because they are relatively small and light and dealers don't ask for ID. Transporting and obtaining is very easy.

Tons of white kids do drugs, they have the money. Most people don't live in rural areas.

guysenjem
01-16-2012, 04:35 PM
Nearly everyone in my high school dropped acid and smoked herb (at some point), this was during the 90s.

Nearly everyone in my high school was white.

Getting alcohol is hard because it is relatively big and heavy (especially beer). This makes it harder to hide from cops and transport. And you have to show ID.

Getting drugs is easy because they are relatively small and light and dealers don't ask for ID. Transporting and obtaining is very easy.

Tons of white kids do drugs, they have the money. Most people don't live in rural areas.

I've said this over and over, but apparently you refuse to learn. The death penalty is not applied to drug users. The numbers more than support what I
have been saying. And yes, if you consider alcohol a drug then drug use follows pretty closely to the exact proportion of the demographics of America -
but that's skirting the issue. I work with drug use in the black and white community. I know that percentage wise it is far more common and a bigger
problem in black communities. Drug related gang crime is practically non-factor in the white community. Even the black kids I work with acknowledge
these facts. And once again I will tell you that I don't believe drug users should be incarcerated so that part makes no difference to me, but being
accurate does. Now go eat snow.

thoughtomator
01-16-2012, 04:38 PM
It's a non factor in white communities because the laws aren't enforced as harshly there as elsewhere. This vicious cycle is started and perpetuated by the initiation of violence by the state, not by the use of drugs.

The death penalty is a separate part of the racism issue, not the drug war issue. The death penalty most certainly is applied disproportionately to blacks, just as the drug war is.

You are searching under the streetlight, but the keys are in the alley.

MelissaWV
01-16-2012, 04:42 PM
There are lots of rich white towns with serious drug problems. My town is one of them.

And how many convictions with long sentences? Food for thought ;)

paulpwns
01-16-2012, 04:47 PM
I suggest

http://blog.norml.org/2010/03/10/the-new-jim-crow-how-the-war-on-drugs-gave-birth-to-a-permanent-american-undercaste/

tttppp
01-16-2012, 05:18 PM
And how many convictions with long sentences? Food for thought ;)

None that I know of.

guysenjem
01-16-2012, 05:56 PM
According to FBI stats, in 60% of felony murders the offender is black. However, 56% of people put to death are white and 35% are black. The only racism is against
whites. But go ahead believe the mainstream media and talking points - they are never wrong. LOL.

bolil
01-16-2012, 07:40 PM
According to FBI stats, in 60% of felony murders the offender is black. However, 56% of people put to death are white and 35% are black. The only racism is against
whites. But go ahead believe the mainstream media and talking points - they are never wrong. LOL.

Being from Cook County, I can absolutely say that the people in the ghetto have it bad. The disproportionate sentencing of black people in bad neihborhoods for victimless crimes is a scandal, and that is to say nothing of the police corruption that is another symptom of a common cause. I say it is a scandal because when the pigs arrest a black guy for burning one, they send him to a place that will force a choice upon him: Become violent or suffer violence. I would become violent, I don't know about you. Unfortunately that habit is not left in the prison when they leave. Thus, the current "justice" (and I use the term here with infinite sarcasm) served in the hood usually consists of taking non violent people and making them violent. This is why something like 90% of people are initially sentenced for nonviolent crimes with a recidivism rate something like 70% only this time for a violent offense.
Note: These numbers are not exact from a report I did last year, I will redo the research tomorrow and edit this post.

guysenjem
01-16-2012, 09:08 PM
RPs answer to the racial disparity in arrests last night was once again a complete flop. He did great on defense spending questions but he flopped by trying
to play the race card on the drug arrest question. He shouldn't include the death penalty in his discussion or mentioning "rich white people." He got
absolutely no applause.