Thoughts of ways to win Guilianni and Romney's supporters

[I Am Weasel]

I was reading all these polls and got to asking myself about the support Rudy boy and Romney are receiving. It seems though the Ron Paul group have all garnered themselves around the message of liberty and freedom, the remaining republicans and democrats have all tapped into the message of fear and war to persuade the public that they are best suited to be our leader.

My question is, what about a change in tactics to show people supporting the rest of the candidates that the best way to protect ourselves is to stay out of the affairs of others? Of course, all of us who have heard Ron Paul speak have heard of his stand on non-intervention. However, there is something the rest of the candidates have that people like, despite the fact they may be adulterous crossdressers.

Since this is the case, what can we tell people that will shed their belief that the only candidate to protect the country is one so stern and demanding that we can't afford to be without him? What about Reminding people that our liberties and what the entire planet envies in our freedom is being put at stake by supporting another candidate willing to take those liberties away? And what can be done to shed the myth that Ron Paul would be a soft President and wouldn't defend our country if attacked again? Perhaps a reminder of his vote for the war in Afghanistan to eradicate the Taliban? (I read he did vote for this)...

Time is getting short people, we need to up everything, the meetup groups, everything!!! I don't know about you all, but I'm constantly trying to think of ways to get the word out that Ron Paul isn't just a wasted vote, 3rd tier candiate (the #1 reason I'm CONSTANTLY given for why NOT to vote for him!!)

Thoughts???

[GHoeberX]

Point out that Paul is the only of the three who will be able to beat Hillary Clinton ;)

[Ron Paul Fan]

Border Security? The front door is unlocked!

[rfbz]

Ron Paul is the strongest candidate on national security because he won't have our military spread so thin that we wouldn't be able to deal with a possible attack.

[lx43]

Point out he is now second place in term of financial support a very important compentent of a healthy campaign. Look at Romney's finances his is very weak. His only support basically is his fat wallet and truthfully Ghoulani support isn't iron glad either. We are actually 2nd place now in terms of cash on hand. Right behind Ghoulani.

[Gimme Some Truth]

Here is a Romney Supporter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIYlyhEdHMs

These are the are the mainstream voters that we need to get to. I have tried to be respectful and point him towards a few informative sites but i fear people like this are a lost cause :(

He seems a nice enough guy too. Shame.

[JMO]

The few people I have met that are Giuliani supporters seem to have a strict unwavering pro war stance. I think the people that back Giuliani are the same people who voted for Bush the last 2 times and still think Bush is a God. I feel Giuliani supporters are the least likely converts to Paul.

anyone know of any Giuliani to paul converts?

[rfbz]

I really think there is a fallacy we need to overcome. Some people actually feel safer under a pro-war president. They don't realize it makes us more vulnerable, not just as a country but as individuals. It needs to be communicated some how that it's not that Ron Paul is a wuss and is afraid to do anything. It's that he understands the possible repercussions, so we need to be more careful about how we use our military. We might have actually found Bin Laden by now if Ron Paul were president, because we would have had more resources towards that objective, as opposed to the huge Iraq distraction.

[freelance]

The few people I have met that are Giuliani supporters seem to have a strict unwavering pro war stance. I think the people that back Giuliani are the same people who voted for Bush the last 2 times and still think Bush is a God. I feel Giuliani supporters are the least likely converts to Paul.

anyone know of any Giuliani to paul converts?

Totally agree. These are the people who need a strict authoritarian in control. It's a little difficult to convert the ones who couldn't buy a clue even if you handed them a vowel on a silver platter. This is the 20%--immutable!

[Matt Collins]

Rudy is not our threat!

Fred and Huckabee are our threats because they will take the most votes away from RP!!!

[PMatt]

The few people I have met that are Giuliani supporters seem to have a strict unwavering pro war stance. I think the people that back Giuliani are the same people who voted for Bush the last 2 times and still think Bush is a God. I feel Giuliani supporters are the least likely converts to Paul.

anyone know of any Giuliani to paul converts?

I was talking to a Giuliani supporter, and I was telling him about the power our government has with the Patriot Act and several other things. His response was that we just have to trust that the government won't abuse it.

[PMatt]

Rudy is not our threat!

Fred and Huckabee are our threats because they will take the most votes away from RP!!!

I'd add McCain to that as well. A lot of people are going to vote for him because they feel he is the "least criminal politician" there is (that came from a McCain supporter).

[ShowMeLiberty]

I've explained how the dollar is in steep decline, there is a looming banking/credit crisis, and how we are deeply in debt to countries like China. Then I say, the rest of it really doesn't matter if the economy goes under. We won't be able to feed, shelter or clothe ourselves anymore - much less go running around the world invading and occupying other countries.

Haven't heard any good arguments againt it yet.

[Tn...Andy]

Win Rudy and Rommi supporters ?

Heck, I'd have to actually run into one first !

[Goldwater Conservative]

Some of them might be, strangely enough, anti-war. I figure they have to be, considering a third of the party is and Paul isn't getting all those votes in the polls. If so, then it's a simple matter of educating them about all the candidates, since they've probably based their decision so far only on what the media has told them.

If they're pro-war, it'll be tougher, since you have to point out that our current policy is not only a leftist one, but actually led to 9/11 and continues to make us more enemies, destabilize the world (and the global economy, which affects gas prices), and weakens our actual defenses here at home.

Also, after seeing that recent New Hampshire poll, I was struck by how many women are supporting Giuliani. I think if you frame things in terms of Giuliani = more wars and a likely draft, they might come around if they are mothers. His support might just be from scared security voters, so use my aforementioned argument... which is coincidentally backed by actual facts.

[Ethek]

Some of them might be, strangely enough, anti-war. I figure they have to be, considering a third of the party is and Paul isn't getting all those votes in the polls. If so, then it's a simple matter of educating them about all the candidates, since they've probably based their decision so far only on what the media has told them.

If they're pro-war, it'll be tougher, since you have to point out that our current policy is not only a leftist one, but actually led to 9/11 and continues to make us more enemies, destabilize the world (and the global economy, which affects gas prices), and weakens our actual defenses here at home.

Also, after seeing that recent New Hampshire poll, I was struck by how many women are supporting Giuliani. I think if you frame things in terms of Giuliani = more wars and a likely draft, they might come around if they are mothers. His support might just be from scared security voters, so use my aforementioned argument... which is coincidentally backed by actual facts.

I am thinking that pointing out that we were in some way responsible for 9/11 is decidedly not best way to convert these people. Pride runs deep in anyone taking a pro war stance, especially after so long. It cast an associative image that Paul doesn't respect our troops, our will to defend ourselves and is not authoritarian enough. It creates some indignation and everything else is lost in the buzz of them coming out with a retort.

I am more of a mind to get the point across that the U.S must again become a respected nation again in the minds and hearts of the rest of the world. Right now we are held in contempt because we meddle in the affairs of other nations and poor tax money into people who turn out to be maniacs. To be respected again we must make sure our society is really free, pull back to within our boarders and let the world feel the vacuum of liberty for a while. This country will be looked to and respected once again. Point out that Ron Paul is the type to defend our boarders with a strong military and defending our soverignty by clamping down on the boarders and telling all of the world trade entanglements we are bound to take a hike. Work in that Paul follows Regan's philosophy and that Regan early on decided that interfering with middle eastern affairs was a train wreck waiting to happen.

[cska80]

A better way to convert these people is to ask them a simple question.

"Which is more important? Iraq or the United States?"

Of course, they will answer with the United States.

Then respond with:

"Would you rather vote for a liberal who promises to win the war or someone who promises to restore our true American values?"

Most people choose the correct answer. Priorities to most are the economy, immigration, education and healthcare...not some middle eastern country who can still attack us just as hard as we have no defense at home.

[idiom]

What I don't get is Rudy's supposed security credentials.

Terrorists living under his nose,
boarded planes at his airport,
and flew them into landmarks in his city,
and killed thousands of people who elected him,
That is to say;
If people who voted for me,
got burned alive by terrorists
I wouldn't have the audacity to flaunt my 'security credentials'.


Maybe a bit harsh to be asssociated with RP, but I would like to see him call Rudy out on it in a debate. :)

[JeffersonReincarnate]

Point out Rudy's lack of any sort of planning. Its all ideas. Such as "We will lower abortion rates by emphasizing adoption" but how exactly will he emphasize adoption? Its about that way for everything he says. "I will do something, by doing something else" but there are absolutely no plans involved. Empty promises as opposed to actual plans.

I think if Ron Paul and Rudy were to debate each other, it would take away all of Rudy's support and deliver it all to Ron immediately.

[Zeteo]

Point out the Chinese threat. Giuliani and Romney will stay in Iraq - and give the Chinese complete control over our finances. Talk about how the war is fought with money borrowed from China. This might work well with some people who suffer from subconscious xenophobia.

[pcosmar]

Get Ron Paul nominated, they are obviously not thinking, and are supporting who they are told has a chance.

[abbgt1]

To convert someone that is behind Rudy or Mitt, I would suggest to that voter that R & M are both further away from the Reagan Republican platform than Paul. Paul & Reagan had a great deal in common (they didn't differ in theory and ideology very much, but Reagan did accept big gov't much more than Paul would as President). If they are die hard Republicans, they want to believe they are voting the way Reagan would.

[Goldwater Conservative]

Regarding Romney...

Do you want some banana with that abortion?:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKwVNUz52vo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kijwc1DTuM0

"Multiple Choice" Mitt blatantly ignores a handicapped supporter after being lobbed a softball question:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NY6UTnS6Z-A

If this wasn't so frighteningly believable, it'd be even funnier:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43ZQQzp93eA&feature=related

[reaver]

Giuliani and Romney dodged the draft. Ron Paul volunteered.

[idiom]

How did they survive four debates if they are draft dodgers? After the mess of 'I went to Vietnam but not really' of 2004? What a massive election liability.

[user]

One good argument I heard somewhere to use in favor of bringing troops home from all around the world is to point out how China doesn't have bases all over the place, but nobody is going to invade China. They'd have to face the largest standing army in the world.

[Ron Paul in 2008]

My question is, what about a change in tactics to show people supporting the rest of the candidates that the best way to protect ourselves is to stay out of the affairs of others?

Just say that the people who say we must fight the terrorists overseas are the same people who refuse to secure the border and have expanded Muslim immigration.

Then stress how we can't afford it and that top military commanders have said we need to fight the insurgency for decades and there is no proof the Muslims won't democratically elect an extremist once we leave. Cite Bill Clinton's interventionist foreign policy and show them how interventionism is a liberal ideology.


(the #1 reason I'm CONSTANTLY given for why NOT to vote for him!!)

Thoughts???

Tell them that the founding fathers always said to vote according to principle and this nation was built by men with conviction. Greatness will not come by voting for who can win but by fighting for the one who can't. Heck, I was fighting for Ron Paul since the campaign started and I was told by so many people he never had a chance. Now plenty of people actually believe he has a chance because we kept fighting and didn't give up. Anyone who doesnt vote for who they like is a completely un-American and they really upset me. However, reseach all of the candidates positions and just show how they ALL support amnesty: Romney, Guilani, Huckabee, Thompson and McCain. Amnesty is basically the #1 issue for everyone and once they learn that their candidate supports amnesty they will switch ships.

[smithnwesson]

Well, my brother is someone I'm currently trying to win over, and he's one of those "I'll vote for Giulianni if he wins the primary" voters.

One thing that DOES NOT WORK is saying "we need to get respect from the world community". He doesn't care about that, because a lot of times the thing that made America great was doing things that flew in the face of the world community.

Show your Rudy fans that even if they were for going into Iraq, do they really think we need to go to Iran? If they say "yes, because Iran has NOOK YOO LER WEAPONS and an Islamo facist dictator," kindly point out that Pakistan has Nuclear weapons and is still giving harbor to AlQuaeda, and Saudi Arabia has Sharia Law.

Then point out that we consider these countries allies and that we just sent 10 billion dollars in aid to Pakistan.

Then point out that we used to consider Osama Bin Laden and Sadam Hussein "allies" and we gave them aid and weapons.

Then say something like this: "Look, I understand that we were all frustrated after 9/11, but if you want to stop terrorist attacks in this country, would you rather have the National Guard on the border of Iraq and Syria, or Arizona and Mexico?"

Then take that right into the amnesty discussion, or the weak dollar, or whatever else you think would be a key issue. Show them that maybe the war isn't the best idea, and then hit them with a policy they would agree with Dr. Paul on. Most Republicans/Conservatives I've found never gave him a chance because of the war stance. But when you show WHY he takes that stance, they might find they actually agree with him!

It's not too difficult if you know the person you're talking to. Ron Paul's message is for everyone, and there are many parts of it every American can agree on. My brother has now said he wants to find out more about Ron Paul, and definitely WILL NOT vote for Giulianni, even if he gets the nomination.