To the Uptight People Out There – SUPPORT FREE EXPRESSION

[ronpaulfan]

I hope you will read this post with an open mind and fight the urge to flame me for it.

Ron Paul's message strongly endorses liberty and freedom of expression. We all know this, but, we also have to practice what we preach. When you see that “crazy” post from that “crazy” guy and have the urge to shut him up, you must ask yourself “am I stifling freedom of expression?”. I know we’re all acting with the best intentions and in the best interest for the campaign, but, we should always resist the urge to deride or destroy the ideas and wishes of others. Like Ron Paul's justification for pollution controls (that our freedoms should not encroach on the freedoms of others), we should never attempt to shutdown someone else’s ideas. There is nothing wrong with putting out your 2 cents or not giving support, but under no circumstances should we forcibly attempt to shut anything down.

The perfect example of this happened in the days and weeks leading up to the November 5th money bomb. Many people, and I mean MANY people, were discouraging it and derailing it (I'm also regretfully guilty of this. I was vehemently against Nov 5th until Dr. Paul endorsed it during the Adam Curry interview). I know it is human nature to try and control things you consider problems; however, this is exactly why things like constitutions exist, because unrestrained, human nature will naturally lead to tyranny and dictatorship.

I’m not saying everyone should make stream-of-consciousness posts & threads, but, if you’re upset about where the country is heading or about some unjust thing the media did to Dr. Paul, then EXPRESS YOURSELF. You are not alone in your frustration and anger and I don’t think anyone should be limiting the extent to which you can express it. Ron Paul himself has in the past advocated the need for civil disobedience in the name of liberty and I agree with him! I ask everyone wanting to reign back the grassroots to keep Ron Paul’s message in mind before every action you take and every forum post you make! Practice what you preach!

I found a video on YouTube that captures exactly how I feel whenever I see blatant disregard for liberty in this country. I hope you watch it with an open mind and remember why this campaign is so important!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_0wzAZOtI0

[murrayrothbard]

however, this is exactly why things like constitutions exist, because unrestrained, human nature will naturally lead to tyranny and dictatorship.


Nice post, except this is obviously not true. We have a constitution, and we have tyranny and dictatorship.

[ValidusCustodiae]

Check this one out from Penn & Teller. =)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jF2iX2VG6e4

Great monologue...

[literatim]

Everything we do reflect on Ron Paul's campaign. If we didn't use Guy Fawkes Night to center around, Ron Paul wouldn't have had to spend half the time saying that he doesn't condone violence.

[LibertyEagle]

Perhaps we should all consider whether it is more important to some to post foul language, and to insult other people, or to win this election.

Please don't drive off people that are over here lurking, to find out more about Dr. Paul. We have ALREADY done that. Do you want to drive off some more?

[Richandler]

This reminds me we need to push all the free speech talkers into realizing that there is a lot more to the consitution that free speech. You can just pick and choose.

Oh and Penn and Teller did this on 'The West Wing' too.

[Matt]

As long as you understand that telling crazy people to shut up is free expression as well. ;)

[murrayrothbard]

the "right" of "free speech" is completely irrelevant to a forum like this. You ever owns it has every right to set whatever policies about content they like. "free speech" doesn't mean you get to bust in to your neighbor's house and say whatever you want...

[Ron Paul Fan]

I agree! I support free expression and free speech and this is why I was very disturbed when a poll was started a few days ago by a few do gooders to BAN SPEECH! I was one of the biggest dissenters and it is because of me and the 62% of the population who voted against it that we can still speak freely on here. I think that if you believe strongly in not using foul language, don't use it! Set a good example and others will emulate. You don't see me cursing up a storm do you? Ultimately it's Josh's decision though as it's his property. He elected to go with the people who overwhelmingly supported free speech and I agree with him!

[Revolution9]

the "right" of "free speech" is completely irrelevant to a forum like this. You ever owns it has every right to set whatever policies about content they like. "free speech" doesn't mean you get to bust in to your neighbor's house and say whatever you want...

If he laughs you can.

HTH
Randy

[tarsus]

This board is no more a democracy than is my home. I don't care how many people are in my home, I get the final say because it's my property. In my opinion, the whole point of liberty is so that you can control your own life and property in action and speech. Now since there is an owner of this board, it is up to him/her to decide what happens on his property. If you don't like it, liberty allows you to leave or create a competing board.

It seems to me that the owner's purpose in making this board was to spread the message of Ron Paul. Anything the owners deems as a hindrance to that goal is in jeopardy of censorship based on the owner's discretion. To make the owner allow you to express your views is an infringement of that liberty. So, if the owner allows it, which he/she has, it appears, then thats fine. If the owner allows debate on the subject, then that's fine. If the owner allows others to tell people how they should act, then that's fine because it's not your board.

[courtney]

I agree that we should respect others' opinions, etc. But on the other hand, I think it's reasonable to at least make the suggestion known that it's up to us to police ourselves.

When we fan out across the Net cussing en masse those whom we feel has slighted "us", then surely most of us can see where that is counter-productive to the overall cause, though individually, it may make us feel better at that particular moment.

So though issues such as the November 5th thingy may prove irreconcilable (until after the fact :D), it's my hope that most of us can at least self-regulate our individual counterproductive knee-jerk behaviors, which will have the effect of minimizing unnecessary negative publicity. I think the campaign is beyond the point now where any publicity is good publicity, lol....

******************************

On a more positive note, I want to thank you folks who've been tirelessly campaigning for Paul. I've known about Paul for many years, just as I've been a Libertarian for 11 or 12 years. But I dismissed Paul's announcement for his run for the Presidency as ludicrous several months ago -- apathy.

Then, in September (yeah, I'm waaayyy late for the party :D) and still not paying attention to politics much, I happened across the news where Paul had more money than McCain -- WTF?!! :eek: So, I googled Ron Paul, and shortly thereafter I dropped the maximum amount I could for the campaign. To be honest, I couldn't believe what was happening for Ron Paul's campaign! And to think I thought the campaign was dead in the water way back in March, lol!

So, congratulations to all of ya. I find myself surprised seemingly every day! But with success comes a need for us to be more careful with our rhetoric, as well as how we deal with rejection. As someone noted on another thread, it's probably time to move into the adult phase of the campaign -- which is awesome really, if ya stop and think about it. :)

[freelance]

So, congratulations to all of ya. I find myself surprised seemingly every day! But with success comes a need for us to be more careful with our rhetoric, as well as how we deal with rejection. As someone noted on another thread, it's probably time to move into the adult phase of the campaign -- which is awesome really, if ya stop and think about it. :)

I can't believe this. I was getting ready to agree with your post, way before you brought up my adult phase comment. Welcome to our crazy little corner of the world.

We've had a lot of fun on here, and that doesn't have to stop. But now, we have to reach out to the people who may not be in lockstep with our passion. People in the stupor of apathy scare easily at seeing unbridled passion until they are given a chance to get caught up in the message. Once they get caught up in the message, they'll loosen up and go with the flow. The trick is in not scaring them off before they can digest the message.

[rfbz]

one person telling another to tone it down is not effecting anyones free speech. I am free to say something stupid, and you're free to tell me it's stupid, and I'm free to respond..etc etc. Our right to free speech has to do with protecting us from the government. It seems like people mix this up a lot. Like when Don Imus was fired from MSNBC, people talked about it like it was a free speech issue. It wasn't. Don Imus still has his free speech rights, he just doesn't have a job at MSNBC. That was a private company making a financial decision (they're in the business of making money, and when advertisers start pulling out, they're going to respond accordingly).

Or redstate.com banning ron paul supporters. That wasn't really a free speech issue either. You still have free speech, that was simply a private website allowing/disallowing what they want on their site. And, likewise, we have the freedom to say that was a stupid thing to do.

[Revolution9]

For all of you who bluster away with the "yeah but this board is other peoples proetry blah blah blah" .. Yeah. It is.. So you are doing the equivalent of going on your neighbors property who is enjoying a pina colada and telling him his grass is brown and he should mow his grass. If he goes on drinking his pina colada and ignoring your nosy ass then perhaps he doesn't think the grass on his property need watering or mowing.

For all those who want the Revolution to tone it down..now that we are here we need to do such and such and so and so different. No we don't. We got here by doing what we did and we will get where we are going by doing more of what we did and not less and not acting all effing "grown-up" like the other campaigns, who are pwned by us. I think you confuse adult with anal retentive or relative versus absolute morals. When you try to cram your cultural euphorisms down other peoples throats who aren't where you are from or the type of headspace you occupy your mind and perceptions with you are gonna get blowback. Attempts at censorship will be met with intense opposition. We are bulldogs in this matter. Hiow do you think we got a live CNN feed from the Philly Rally? Not by shutting our yaps and acting all adult and not writing vehement and well phrased informative emails.

To all the media clowns out there poking their nose in to take a gander at the Revolution's Cosmic Clowns.. Howdy.. Enjoy the ride and insights and laughs. This ain't like nuthin you have ever seen before. Careful or you too may just fall into the riptide of Liberty. Enjoy the surf. And don't forget to donate your Sums of Liberty to Doctor ( and don't you bloody well forget it!) Ron Paul, our next POTUS..get used to that moniker and be kind.. He just may well give you that special access to The White House that other incipiently obsequious blowhards like O'Rielly and Hannity will wither and die on the vine of old media before it is granted. Or maybe he could get them in the Oval Office and then keep talking over and givie them history lessons and quiz them when they get all blustery, to the roaring laughter of the viewing public.

Best Regards
Randy

[Nefertiti]

I respect people who use free speech as a means to an end. I find obnoxious and even dangerous people who consider free speech to be an end in itself. If you are finding yourself being asked politely or not so politely to moderate your speech by others in this forum, you should ask yourself for what reason you are exercising your free speech.

[RonPaulFever]

Just because you have a "right" to something doesn't mean you should exercise that right in an irresponsible manner. I sincerely hope that some of you don't conduct yourselves in real life the way you do in here.

[Nefertiti]

This is real life too. This is a real campaign and we shouldn't consider this forum any less than real life.

[RonPaulFever]

This is real life too. This is a real campaign and we shouldn't consider this forum any less than real life.

Excellent point, although the internet provides far more anonymity than "real life"....i.e., a license to be a mouthy idiot without suffering any serious repercussions.

[Revolution9]

a license to be a mouthy idiot without suffering any serious repercussions.

Seriously.

Randy

[LibertyEagle]

At the same time, Randy, we do not want to run off all the people who are offended by a bunch of 4 letter words. Our actions reflect on our candidate. That's the reality of the deal, whether we like it or not.

C'mon. It's not so hard. We can't afford to run off the entire bible belt of this country.

[stevedasbach]

I hope you will read this post with an open mind and fight the urge to flame me for it.

Ron Paul's message strongly endorses liberty and freedom of expression. We all know this, but, we also have to practice what we preach. When you see that “crazy” post from that “crazy” guy and have the urge to shut him up, you must ask yourself “am I stifling freedom of expression?”. I know we’re all acting with the best intentions and in the best interest for the campaign, but, we should always resist the urge to deride or destroy the ideas and wishes of others. Like Ron Paul's justification for pollution controls (that our freedoms should not encroach on the freedoms of others), we should never attempt to shutdown someone else’s ideas. There is nothing wrong with putting out your 2 cents or not giving support, but under no circumstances should we forcibly attempt to shut anything down.

The perfect example of this happened in the days and weeks leading up to the November 5th money bomb. Many people, and I mean MANY people, were discouraging it and derailing it (I'm also regretfully guilty of this. I was vehemently against Nov 5th until Dr. Paul endorsed it during the Adam Curry interview). I know it is human nature to try and control things you consider problems; however, this is exactly why things like constitutions exist, because unrestrained, human nature will naturally lead to tyranny and dictatorship.

The flip side of freedom is responsibility. We have to take responsibility for the results of what we post. Does what we do help or hinder Dr. Paul's campaign?

We should always think before we post.

[Original_Intent]

Telling someone to shut up or expressing that they are causing more harm than good is also part of freedom of expression.

I a forum owner or a moderator that he designates decides that someone is causing so much harm that they need to be banned, this is not a free speech issue, this is a property rights issue. His forum, his rules.

Same goes for the language and i ahve been so grateful that some of the stronger language at least is mostly gone. And i was one of the ones who used some of that previously. but it wasn't appropriate and was scaring new people away from our site. If i met Ron Paul, I would NEVER say something like "YOU ARE THE ****ING MAN! (I might feel that but I would express it differently!)

[courtney]

stevedasbach Posted: The flip side of freedom is responsibility. We have to take responsibility for the results of what we post. Does what we do help or hinder Dr. Paul's campaign?

We should always think before we post.

Yep.

It's not nice to fart in a crowded elevator -- even if it does make one feel better....

[Revolution9]

At the same time, Randy, we do not want to run off all the people who are offended by a bunch of 4 letter words. Our actions reflect on our candidate. That's the reality of the deal, whether we like it or not.

C'mon. It's not so hard. We can't afford to run off the entire bible belt of this country.

We cannot afford to run off people who did not want to join the republican party of the 2000's and the control freaks multiplying in droves issuing decrees like mini mullahs will certainly give an ironic impression to those who came to the campaign seeking to back the forces of liberty and find the same old same old same old.

'They need to chill. There is not that much swearing going on. Most of it is emphatic injections derived from passion or outright derision for example in the case of fucking media pundit blowhards.:eek::D

Best Regards
Randy

[ronpaulfan]

There is nothing wrong with putting out your 2 cents or not giving support, but under no circumstances should we forcibly attempt to shut anything down.

The perfect example of this happened in the days and weeks leading up to the November 5th money bomb. Many people, and I mean MANY people, were discouraging it and derailing it (I'm also regretfully guilty of this. I was vehemently against Nov 5th until Dr. Paul endorsed it during the Adam Curry interview).

Reading through the majority of the responses here really saddened me. The point of the thread was to reduce the ferocity in which many people here nay-say other people's ideas. The point was not to school the forum mods or complain about forum rules. I personally think the forum mods are doing a great job.

My main issue is with people ferociously deriding and derailing other people's ideas. This happens all the time and it is hypocritical for us to preach freedom of speech and in the same breath rip someone or something apart for fully expressing themselves. Yes, free speech gives you the right to say "stfu" to every idea you don't like, but this is against the spirt of free speech. In fact, anything that discourages free speech is against the spirit of free speech. Think before you post!!

In retrospect, all the people that bashed the idea of Nov 5th (including me), you guys (and me) were indistiguishable from shills. If we're going to restore liberty and freedom to this country, then for God's sake, lets practice them now!

[max]

Everything we do reflect on Ron Paul's campaign. If we didn't use Guy Fawkes Night to center around, Ron Paul wouldn't have had to spend half the time saying that he doesn't condone violence.

"half the time?".....oh stop...

just admit you were wrong and that the Guy Fawkes idea was terrific..

It actually got him even more publicity and probably helped DVD rentals

[Hurricane Bruiser]

I support free expression and free speech and this is why I was very disturbed when a poll was started a few days ago by a few do gooders to BAN SPEECH!

I don't think it was a few "do gooders" trying to squash speech but rather a few people that recognize that having posts laced with obscenities turns off a lot of people that might be viewing the forums. If this was a forum on anything other than supporting a candidate like Ron Paul, I'd support saying whatever you feel like.

Now as to shutting down other ideas, I think constructive criticism is a good thing because it helps poke holes in ideas that may seem great a first glance. Just as long as people are polite about it and not just belittling someone.

[Ron Paul Fan]

I don't think it was a few "do gooders" trying to squash speech but rather a few people that recognize that having posts laced with obscenities turns off a lot of people that might be viewing the forums. If this was a forum on anything other than supporting a candidate like Ron Paul, I'd support saying whatever you feel like.

Now as to shutting down other ideas, I think constructive criticism is a good thing because it helps poke holes in ideas that may seem great a first glance. Just as long as people are polite about it and not just belittling someone.

Yes, but we should do it by setting a good example and doing a good job ourselves. I think of myself as the gold standard of all posters on here so people will follow and try and emulate me. The do gooders were trying to squash speech and enforce their goodness on others like the neo-cons preach. Josh would have none of this and he instead agreed with the majority of the people. Ron Paul and myself have set good examples to follow. Personal attacks and cursing are not something you will see us do a whole lot. We both preach non-intervention, personal responsibility, and peace. I just wish others would follow us in doing the same.

[ronpaulfan]

I think of myself as the gold standard of all posters on here so people will follow and try and emulate me.

Dear lord. That could have been phrased so much better bro :p

[me3]

Yes, but we should do it by setting a good example and doing a good job ourselves. I think of myself as the gold standard of all posters on here so people will follow and try and emulate me. The do gooders were trying to squash speech and enforce their goodness on others like the neo-cons preach. Josh would have none of this and he instead agreed with the majority of the people. Ron Paul and myself have set good examples to follow. Personal attacks and cursing are not something you will see us do a whole lot. We both preach non-intervention, personal responsibility, and peace. I just wish others would follow us in doing the same.
For the love of Pete, for the umpteenth time, this isn't a commune or public property. It's a privately owned forum. I don't understand how you can sidle up to Dr. Paul and talk about how great you are, and totally ignore the concept of property rights.

[ronpaulfan]

Here again is the reason I made this thread. Not about forum mods or property rights, but about the spirt of free speech:


The point of the thread was to reduce the ferocity in which many people here nay-say other people's ideas. The point was not to school the forum mods or complain about forum rules. I personally think the forum mods are doing a great job.

My main issue is with people ferociously deriding and derailing other people's ideas. This happens all the time and it is hypocritical for us to preach freedom of speech and in the same breath rip someone or something apart for fully expressing themselves. Yes, free speech gives you the right to say "stfu" to every idea you don't like, but this is against the spirt of free speech. In fact, anything that discourages free speech is against the spirit of free speech. Think before you post!!

In retrospect, all the people that bashed the idea of Nov 5th (including me), you guys (and me) were indistiguishable from shills. If we're going to restore liberty and freedom to this country, then for God's sake, lets practice them now!

[Ron Paul Fan]

For the love of Pete, for the umpteenth time, this isn't a commune or public property. It's a privately owned forum. I don't understand how you can sidle up to Dr. Paul and talk about how great you are, and totally ignore the concept of property rights.

I haven't ignored property rights. If you had read the thread I said that ultimately it was up to Josh and he sided with allowing speech. Hard to argue against that! I applaud his decision and I think he's doing a great job managing such a diverse bunch of people! I'm so glad that he didn't let the minority sway him into making a rash decision.