Ron Paul and Reparations for Decedents of Slaves

[JaChoCoTeaJA]

I've searched and googled everywhere for Ron Paul's perspective on Reparations for Decedents of Slaves. Does anyone have an article or documentation of his perspective/opinion on this? I am asking for articles, not for general publics' opinions on this.

I'd like to see what is Ron Paul's opinion/perspective on this issue. It's important because if you want your vote count for something you believe in, why shouldn't I?

Thanks.

[murrayrothbard]

I've searched and googled everywhere for Ron Paul's perspective on Reparations for Decedents of Slaves. Does anyone have an article or documentation of his perspective/opinion on this? I am asking for articles, not for general publics' opinions on this.

I'd like to see what is Ron Paul's opinion/perspective on this issue. It's important because if you want your vote count for something you believe in, why shouldn't I?

Thanks.

I can't imagine RP would support anything like this.

[pcosmar]

Reparations from who?
Who has owned any slaves? Please raise your hand.
Who gets these reparations? Anybody been held as a slave? I mean alive today.

As a point, Neither me nor any of my family( back to the 1600s) has ever owned slaves.

[Corydoras]

http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/document.php?id=217

"The idea that certain countries should pay reparations to compensate for the ills of slavery and colonialism cannot be taken seriously. First, it's clearly impossible to determine exactly who was harmed and who benefitted from past actions, with so many generations having passed since the times in question. The vast majority of Americans for example, have no connection whatsoever to slave owners. Furthermore, who decides what wrongs are corrected? If we go back 100 or 200 years, why not 500 years? Once reparations lawsuits are allowed, the potential liabilities are endless"

[Corydoras]

It's important because if you want your vote count for something you believe in, why shouldn't I?

Nobody suggested it wasn't important.
:confused:

[Tina]

I've searched and googled everywhere for Ron Paul's perspective on Reparations for Decedents of Slaves. Does anyone have an article or documentation of his perspective/opinion on this? I am asking for articles, not for general publics' opinions on this.

I'd like to see what is Ron Paul's opinion/perspective on this issue. It's important because if you want your vote count for something you believe in, why shouldn't I?

Thanks.

Well, the holocausts victims children have jumped ahead of the slave reparations, so I guess you'll just have to get in line.

[sparebulb]

I agree with the first two posters.

I think that all of us are for reparations to those that were enslaved. I don't think that any of these people are around to benefit from it.

We need to turn our attention to OUR possible enslavement if we are not successful in this election. I'm serious.

[JaChoCoTeaJA]

Imagine this:
Say a black man, with a college degree, have a job at Wachovia Corporation, as an executive director. A white woman, with a college degree, have a job at Bank of America Corporation. This black man raped this white woman. With all the ordeal of court procedure says that black man isn't guilty due to lack of evidence against him. 10 years later, black man continue to climb the ladder in Wachovia Corporation and the company expands across America with great reputation, despite the allegation against this black man. Meanwhile, this white woman, after what happened, she moved on, however the Bank of America let her go to keep their reputation clean. This woman didn't let it stop her, but she tried to find new job similar to her previous job. She wasn't able to find a job, so she ended up working as a bank teller at a smaller bank company. Everywhere she turned, things were hard for her. Difficulty to get a fair housing based on her reputation. Difficulty to get a fair price for a vehicle based on her reputation. Years later, this woman married a nice man, have children. Their children grow up to attend college but faced with difficulties based on their mother's reputation. Meanwhile the black man's family thrived to be celebrity, two of his children reached Fortune 500. They are able to see the world, travel, enjoy life and all. Shouldn't the children of this white woman get reparation?? Before you give quick answer.... the black man, and the white women are dead 10 years ago. Instead of answering yes or no, I'd like to hear what your reaction would be if it happened to you. Wouldn't you be angry because of the fate that someone else has placed on you?

I'm am aware that I'll be shoot down, or get my head bitten off for even coming up with this... but I sure hope that this'll clear up the thoughts that we, Americans, have. Let's be a little sensitive about this, instead of being quick to answer the question based on your personal experience or upbringing. Just think about it.... imagine your daughter went through this, and 10 years after her natural death, your family line has to struggle through for many years, while this black man's family line go through life without any worry because of inheritances.

Am I making any sense??

[murrayrothbard]

Shouldn't the children of this white woman get reparation??

From who? And what crime are they a victim of?

[pcosmar]

NO.

[Chester Copperpot]

I understand your point, but it seems like youre stretching to connect points A and B..

I think it might be more beneficial for white people to see that movie.. I forget what its called but white and black people are reversed in their cultural role in the movie.. you know which one im talking about? James Earl Jones is in it.

[DrRich]

im sorry but who is the new president going to say that are going to be responsible for paying these reparations? The American public? corporation? Every non black Americans who lived before the abolishment of slavery? What about people of mixed races? are they going to be entitled to part of this reparation process?
Im sorry but i dont see how this thing can work since most people responsible for slavery have been long dead.

[DrRich]

I understand your point, but it seems like youre stretching to connect points A and B..

I think it might be more beneficial for white people to see that movie.. I forget what its called but white and black people are reversed in their cultural role in the movie.. you know which one im talking about? James Earl Jones is in it.


"Black like me".
it was a book first.

[DrRich]

oops, wrong movie.
but the book is good ;)

[AlexAmore]

What does Ron Paul have to do with slavery? Why does Ron have to say sorry just because he is a white man? Isn't that racism on your part?

[sparebulb]

JaChoCoTeaJA,

You are looking for a fix that nobody, especially the government, can provide. How would you feel knowing that the only "fix" would be to disadvantage other totally unrelated and innocent people? The cycle would continue.

If you always look to the government for solutions, you will always be disappointed.

Good luck.

[pcosmar]

First no it does not make any sense.
We are each responsible for ourselves. I am not responsible for things that happened before I was born. I am not responsible for the actions of my father.
Yes, I grew up in poverty. My father refused to accept welfare, and raised 6 kids on low wages.
We could have had cheap housing and benefits on the reservation. He chose not to. He built a house and paid for it.
I left home at 16. I started with nothing.
I am 50 and own my own home.
It is not the responsibility of any one else. I am not responsible for any one else. You are not responsible for any one but yourself and your family.

[DJ RP]

The analogy is interesting (though flawed) but what do you want to do in this situation.

Use goverment force to make somebody who has committed no crime give up his posessions to somebody else who has not been inflicted with rape? If so how much money should be taken? What about people who had nothing to do with the rape, should they also be forced to pay?

I don't believe this can be worked if you believe in ron paul's libertarian stance. However, in a paul presidancy, poor people, black white and brown, would all be better off by dealing with the problems that exist NOW and not trying to legislate fairness for crimes committed generations ago.

In a free society charities that help out the poor will thrive. They exist now, without legislation and they would do much better in a more prosperous society, plus there wouldn't be as many poor.

Here are paul positions that will help the urban poor.

- End the war on drugs
- End the income tax
- Stop inflation
- End "no child left behind"

[Corydoras]

Choco Tea, what is YOUR position on reparations, and for what reasons do you hold it?

[pcosmar]

If you want reparations, then you need to target the right party.
For slavery that would be the original offense, That would be with the African Tribes that sold their enemies into slavery in the first place.
Good Luck with that.

[aravoth]

Imagine this:
Say a black man, with a college degree, have a job at Wachovia Corporation, as an executive director. A white woman, with a college degree, have a job at Bank of America Corporation. This black man raped this white woman. With all the ordeal of court procedure says that black man isn't guilty due to lack of evidence against him. 10 years later, black man continue to climb the ladder in Wachovia Corporation and the company expands across America with great reputation, despite the allegation against this black man. Meanwhile, this white woman, after what happened, she moved on, however the Bank of America let her go to keep their reputation clean. This woman didn't let it stop her, but she tried to find new job similar to her previous job. She wasn't able to find a job, so she ended up working as a bank teller at a smaller bank company. Everywhere she turned, things were hard for her. Difficulty to get a fair housing based on her reputation. Difficulty to get a fair price for a vehicle based on her reputation. Years later, this woman married a nice man, have children. Their children grow up to attend college but faced with difficulties based on their mother's reputation. Meanwhile the black man's family thrived to be celebrity, two of his children reached Fortune 500. They are able to see the world, travel, enjoy life and all. Shouldn't the children of this white woman get reparation?? Before you give quick answer.... the black man, and the white women are dead 10 years ago. Instead of answering yes or no, I'd like to hear what your reaction would be if it happened to you. Wouldn't you be angry because of the fate that someone else has placed on you?

I'm am aware that I'll be shoot down, or get my head bitten off for even coming up with this... but I sure hope that this'll clear up the thoughts that we, Americans, have. Let's be a little sensitive about this, instead of being quick to answer the question based on your personal experience or upbringing. Just think about it.... imagine your daughter went through this, and 10 years after her natural death, your family line has to struggle through for many years, while this black man's family line go through life without any worry because of inheritances.

Am I making any sense??

I would think that the Irish would get reperations based on what your saying here also.

[loupeznik]

We already have reparations. It's called "welfare".

[OptionsTrader]

The answer to the OP is no. For the same reasons Ron Paul will not use our tax dollars to rebuild Iraq. You do not correct injustice with more injustice.

Anyone with a basic understanding of Ron Paul's fundamental beliefs can see that the original question in this thread is self explanatory.

[werdd]

I've searched and googled everywhere for Ron Paul's perspective on Reparations for Decedents of Slaves. Does anyone have an article or documentation of his perspective/opinion on this? I am asking for articles, not for general publics' opinions on this.

I'd like to see what is Ron Paul's opinion/perspective on this issue. It's important because if you want your vote count for something you believe in, why shouldn't I?

Thanks.

Taking the peoples money to pay back decadents of slavery is not the way to do it, if the goverment paid for it by taking a chunk of change out of the congressmans pockets, im sure RP would support it.

Kind of like when Ron Paul stood alone on the vote for giving Rosa Parks a medal. He said she is a hero of his as she practices civil disobediance, but paying for a medal with the peoples dollars is unconstitutional. He offered to pitch in 100 bucks and if everyone else in congress would do the same they could give her the medal, they declined and the vote passed 534-1. He was the 1.

He's a man of princaple, and will never pander to any specific group even if it means it will look bad on the outside. Alot of people will be misinformed and call him a "racist" because he didnt want to take your money without consent to fund the deal.

[hard@work]

Am I making any sense??


What you are doing is making an analogy that is not anywhere near the complexity of the issue at hand. Aside from that your analogy was dead wrong, you're insisting the ancestors of a transgressor is responsible for the acts of those they had no control over. This is the antitheses of personal accountability in the eyes of Liberty. An example would be the majority of Americans today including the decedents of former slaves. We owe nothing for our past except to take lesson from it, and we owe everything to each other. But we are not allowed to force by any means against one another.

I could go on in detail but I'll end it with this:

The enemies of liberty support so-called "reparations". Whether that support is honest or not is sometimes called to question, as those who would divide us would sponsor as much of the issue in order to keep yet another wedge between the people of this nation. The true reparation for the sin of slavery is the acknowledgment that this country was founded on the hard work of the black man and woman; that this fact should be celebrated reverently in meditation of it's sin. Meditation that without the work of the black man and woman our country would not be what it is today, either before or after the civil war and emancipation. And that ultimately the true reparation due not just to one people but to all people is equality, liberty, and acceptance into society with open arms.

This is what the racialists fear the most on both sides of the argument. And the enemies of liberty are well aware that it is still a possibility for the United States to cast off the chains of slavery once and for all only to emerge as the most prosperous, just, and free people to have ever walked the face of the earth.

[Goldwater Conservative]

People who owned slaves should pay reparations. People who didn't shouldn't. And people who were slaves should get reparations.

Unfortunately, all those people died over a hundred years ago. Reparations today would mean punishing people for the sins of their great-great-grandfathers. And what about people of mixed slaveowner/non-slaveowner/slave heritage? How would you even determine that?

If you want real reparations, look to ways for black Americans to close the gap with non-black Americans, especially with an emphasis on teaching them to be self-reliant and competitive in the marketplace.

[xao]

Anyone that is filled with racist guilt for something they had nothing to do with is a total moron. I never owned a slave, in fact, I would fancy a guess that not a living American today ever owned, or was, a slave(other than to the govt.).

Unconstitutional programs like Affirmative action are a slap in the face to the idea of equality, anyone that thinks differently is dilusional.

[Original_Intent]

My first ancestors moved to America after the Civil War. Should I have to pay for reparations just because I am white?

Don't get me wrong, slavery was and is an obscenity, but most of the people who want reparations alive today) would be in much worse conditions living in Africa - they have not suffered because of slavery they have beneffitted because of the terrible things their ancestors lived thru.

Seriously, reparations are to make things as close as possible to undo the past. So if you want to relinquish all your possessions and be given an average life in Africa, then I guess I am for reparations. I am not a racist at all, and I am not saying that African Americans should be deported. I am saying anyone that wants reparations, fine, let's undo all the suffering they have had to deal with due to their ancestors being slaves.

[Mac Guy]

I don't support it. Black Americans have been given 30 years of Affirmative Action. That's reparations enough.

[deedles]

Put me down as against being stolen from to pay someone back for someone they are descended from having been stolen from.
If the theft of the slaves' fruits of their labor was wrong then, and it was... well, it's still wrong now.


And as someone said earlier, we are all in the same big trouble if we don't get Dr. Paul elected.

[deedles]

Zeitgeist: The Movie. If you haven't seen it, check it out on google video.

[RegularRon]

Being that I'm new to the forum, I can't believe this is even being talked about on here. Dr. Paul would NEVER support something as goofy as this. You think racism is bad today? Wait till something like this happens. I can honestly say that people who are saying "I think blacks should have reparations" and the next day, they look at their pay check and see that more than usual is gone, you can bet your ass people would be pissed.

Is that a road that you want to go down? I don't. But NO, Dr. Paul would NEVER support something like this. Jesus, when did the leftists show up to the party??

[Shii]

I want my Irish reparations!

[barcop]

Since some of the largest slave owners/traders in the United States were in fact free wealthy black men.... do black people have to pay themselves reparations?

[gworrel]

I think that sometimes the best way to look at questions like this is to bring it down to a local level. I am white and I live in Detroit in an integrated, actually mostly black, neighborhood. Both my neighbors on either side are black. The neighbor on one side is a retired postal worker. The neighbors on the other side are a couple who both work. Neither neighbor is poor.

Can you imagine one of them walking over, knocking on my door, and explaining that their ancestors were slaves, and since I am white I must be partially responsible and I should give them some money. I cannot imagine this happening. They would never do it. I would never give it to them. It is absurd.

The only way that this kind of thing makes any sense to anyone is when the money is coming from the government. That de-personalizes it. By asking the government to pay it is not like asking their neighbors. The legislators can actually consider voting for it because it is not their money. To some people, in some vague symbolic way it can be seen as a good thing to do because nobody is thinking about how ridiculous it looks when you actually look at who the money is coming from and who it is going to.

If you want reparations to be paid, get some money together with others who think likewise, take out a big ad in the NYT or WSJ, and ask people to send donations voluntarily. You might actually get some. To ask the government to do it is to be no better than the slave owners you condemn.

[Dequeant]

I'm a native american, many of my descendants were murdered in what realistically amounted to a genocide....... I haven't gotten any "reparations", nor would i expect it.

All it would amount to is government taking money from every taxpayer today, and giving it to a select few who don't have any experience of slavery whatsoever.

What exactly do you think entitles you to this, and more specifically, what entitles government to take money from me to give to you for this?