moderate libertarian
01-12-2012, 09:16 PM
Almost 90% of US troops who died in Iraq were killed in revived insurgency post Abu Ghraib photos scandal. Isurgency was already going on at a low temp but after Abu Ghraib, US death toll rose sharply for next 4 years. Full financial costs likely over a $Trillion.
US image had already taken a hit after reports of a US soldiers group killing Afghan civilians for sport/planting weapons to make them look like insurgents/cutting their body parts as souvenirs came out last year. Latest video going viral around the world showing elite Marines urinating on killed Afghan men has already caused enormous damage to US image around the world and especially in Afghanistan/Middle East. Not clear yet if it will but it has potential to become Afghanistan's Abu Ghraib. If that happened and Obama kept US troops there to fight a long, revived insurgency, that would probably cost hundreds of billions in additional dollars to tax payers and many lives/body parts to US troops there.
Analysis - Is Marine desecration video a new Abu Ghraib?
WASHINGTON | Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:51pm EST
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A video appearing to show U.S. Marines urinating on the bodies of dead Taliban fighters promises to become an enduring memory of the Afghan war and is already drawing sharp reaction from across the world as it goes viral on the Internet.
But experts inside and outside the U.S. military are so far unconvinced the incident will cause as much damage as Iraq's Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse scandal did, even as it stirs anti-American sentiment and revives questions about why some American troops appear prone to committing abuses -- and then proudly documenting them.
Like in the 2004 Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse scandal, in which U.S. troops photographed themselves humiliating and intimidating detainees, the Americans shown in the Marine video appeared to have wanted a record of themselves desecrating the corpses of the men they had just killed.
Cracking jokes, like "have a great day, buddy," as they urinate on the dead, they are aware the video is being taken. Near the end of the clip, one of the Americans seeks to confirm that the video caught everything.
"Yup," a colleague answered, apparently a Marine from the same North Carolina-based unit. That casual exchange, and others, are part of what make the images so disturbing.
Reuters has been unable to verify that the dead men were indeed Taliban fighters, but the Marines said the video appeared to depict "several dead Taliban."
"The issue here, like Abu Ghraib, is that you have vivid pictures ... and that is what is so damaging," said John Ullyot, a former Republican spokesman for the Senate Armed Services Committee during the Abu Ghraib hearings
...
One U.S. official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said it was too soon to tell but he did not expect the incident to reach Abu Ghraib proportions, at home or abroad, because the abuse appeared isolated.
Still, in the coming days and weeks, the U.S. military will be asked to explain how those forces could possibly think they could escape punishment after committing such abuses and documenting them in a video.
Marines are given training about the rules of war and observers in the Pentagon privately questioned whether the problem was not also a lack of common sense among a generation accustomed to living in a world where images become public on the Internet.
Most of the reaction on military-related websites was astonishment.
"Having buried friends, killed the enemy and listen to wounded friends scream for help I understand where they're coming from emotionally," one reader wrote, commenting on an article published on the Marine Corps Times website.
"However, this is completely stupid and embarrassing for anybody in a uniform. It's nasty. Once again like I've said before. If you're going to do something stupid make sure there is no record of it."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/13/uk-afghanistan-usa-marines-idUSTRE80C05020120113
Added:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbvrNmf6ZX0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbvrNmf6ZX0
US image had already taken a hit after reports of a US soldiers group killing Afghan civilians for sport/planting weapons to make them look like insurgents/cutting their body parts as souvenirs came out last year. Latest video going viral around the world showing elite Marines urinating on killed Afghan men has already caused enormous damage to US image around the world and especially in Afghanistan/Middle East. Not clear yet if it will but it has potential to become Afghanistan's Abu Ghraib. If that happened and Obama kept US troops there to fight a long, revived insurgency, that would probably cost hundreds of billions in additional dollars to tax payers and many lives/body parts to US troops there.
Analysis - Is Marine desecration video a new Abu Ghraib?
WASHINGTON | Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:51pm EST
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A video appearing to show U.S. Marines urinating on the bodies of dead Taliban fighters promises to become an enduring memory of the Afghan war and is already drawing sharp reaction from across the world as it goes viral on the Internet.
But experts inside and outside the U.S. military are so far unconvinced the incident will cause as much damage as Iraq's Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse scandal did, even as it stirs anti-American sentiment and revives questions about why some American troops appear prone to committing abuses -- and then proudly documenting them.
Like in the 2004 Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse scandal, in which U.S. troops photographed themselves humiliating and intimidating detainees, the Americans shown in the Marine video appeared to have wanted a record of themselves desecrating the corpses of the men they had just killed.
Cracking jokes, like "have a great day, buddy," as they urinate on the dead, they are aware the video is being taken. Near the end of the clip, one of the Americans seeks to confirm that the video caught everything.
"Yup," a colleague answered, apparently a Marine from the same North Carolina-based unit. That casual exchange, and others, are part of what make the images so disturbing.
Reuters has been unable to verify that the dead men were indeed Taliban fighters, but the Marines said the video appeared to depict "several dead Taliban."
"The issue here, like Abu Ghraib, is that you have vivid pictures ... and that is what is so damaging," said John Ullyot, a former Republican spokesman for the Senate Armed Services Committee during the Abu Ghraib hearings
...
One U.S. official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said it was too soon to tell but he did not expect the incident to reach Abu Ghraib proportions, at home or abroad, because the abuse appeared isolated.
Still, in the coming days and weeks, the U.S. military will be asked to explain how those forces could possibly think they could escape punishment after committing such abuses and documenting them in a video.
Marines are given training about the rules of war and observers in the Pentagon privately questioned whether the problem was not also a lack of common sense among a generation accustomed to living in a world where images become public on the Internet.
Most of the reaction on military-related websites was astonishment.
"Having buried friends, killed the enemy and listen to wounded friends scream for help I understand where they're coming from emotionally," one reader wrote, commenting on an article published on the Marine Corps Times website.
"However, this is completely stupid and embarrassing for anybody in a uniform. It's nasty. Once again like I've said before. If you're going to do something stupid make sure there is no record of it."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/13/uk-afghanistan-usa-marines-idUSTRE80C05020120113
Added:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbvrNmf6ZX0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbvrNmf6ZX0