Help dominate this poll: What is your stance on synthetic drugs?

[garyallen59]

hxxp://www2.tricities.com/news/2012/jan/09/what-your-stance-synthetic-drugs-pl-1158/

Let's flip this poll. :)

Also discuss.

[bcreps85]

Well, not going to answer the poll because the answers are too black and white. I'll start by saying that I have on occasion smoked marijuana, though never made a habit of it, and am a fairly regular social drinker. That being said, the main goal of a lot of these "synthetic drugs" seems to be to emulate real drugs, like marijuana, with the added benefit of being legal for a short amount of time because there is no law against them. Of course that probably comes with negative side affects, but I digress.

My impression is that if the feds were not involved in "the drug war", the majority of states would outlaw "serious" drugs like heroine, cocaine, meth, etc while leaving weed decriminalized - so these "synthetic drugs" would likely have never been created in the first place. Even for the "serious drugs", however, I don't think that prison sentences are really necessary for non-violent use...I think more of a rehab/counseling approach would be sensible. Pretty much everyone I have known that has used serious drugs was usually trying to escape something emotionally and not trying to harm others...

[The Free Hornet]

What is your stance on synthetic drugs?

What is your stance on synthetic drugs?

They should be outlawed 76%

They should have the same restrictions as alcohol 15%

No laws should restrict them 5% (yikes, represent a little people)

No opinion 4%

Total number of votes: 356


Voted! Good luck.

[ShaneEnochs]

What exactly is a synthetic drug? Drugs made by pharmaceutical companies?

[asurfaholic]

I remember this topic has come up before here, basically synthetic drugs consist of the spice (marijuana wanna be) and bath salts. Both of these products are incredibly harmful, bath salts way more so than spice, but both are terrible alternatives to "real drugs".

Spice gives the user a similar experience to smoking pot, but it is shorter and more likely to give you a headache. It also doesn't burn as clean as pot does, if you smoke out of a glass bowl you will notice it leaves a thick residue all up in there. Smoke alot of it, and that's what your lungs will feel like. I don't think anyone knows just what is in the stuff, but after trying it for some time, this is something I quit on my own, and I have no problem with it being illegal.

Bath salts on the other had make its users just plain crazy. My wife works at the hospital as a nurse, and she is always talking about the people who are coming in because of this stuff. It makes you scary paranoid, to the point that it is not uncommon for people to end up dead because a user felt threatened. Multiple cases reported of users walking down the road with a hatchet or other type of weapon.

Now, I know the libertarian view is that these drugs shouldn't be outlawed, and people have the right to do what they want to themselves, but if I am going to fight that battle, I would prefer to fight for the natural stuff first. These synthetic drugs are no good, and the only reason they got popular is because of the prohibition on less harmful drugs. End the prohibition, and these actually dangerous drugs will be like dust in the wind...

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

I don't think anyone knows just what is in the stuff, but after trying it for some time, this is something I quit on my own, and I have no problem with it being illegal.

Just because YOU don't know doesn't mean "anyone" doesn't know. And if YOU don't know, perhaps you should be more careful with yourself. If you'd like people not to have something, I say you should go confiscate it yourself. How important is it to you?



Bath salts on the other had make its users just plain crazy. My wife works at the hospital as a nurse, and she is always talking about the people who are coming in because of this stuff. It makes you scary paranoid, to the point that it is not uncommon for people to end up dead because a user felt threatened. Multiple cases reported of users walking down the road with a hatchet or other type of weapon.

Is it illegal to walk down the road with a hatchet? A person calling 911 for that should probably be charged with something, themselves. What about other tools? Or weapons, for that matter?

Since you claim it's common for people to wind up dead over this, can you please show some examples? I don't believe you that it is common at all. How many people would you estimate have died in this manner per month in the US? Or total?

[The Beastly One]

Just because YOU don't know doesn't mean "anyone" doesn't know. And if YOU don't know, perhaps you should be more careful with yourself. If you'd like people not to have something, I say you should go confiscate it yourself. How important is it to you?




Is it illegal to walk down the road with a hatchet? A person calling 911 for that should probably be charged with something, themselves. What about other tools? Or weapons, for that matter?

Since you claim it's common for people to wind up dead over this, can you please show some examples? I don't believe you that it is common at all. How many people would you estimate have died in this manner per month in the US? Or total?Rightly spoken, my Friend. We have been inundated with the idea that government has the right to say what we must and must not do. This is a fallacy. If a person is carrying a bazooka down the road there is no violation until he commits a real one!!! Should the local sheriff ASK why the guy has a bazooka? I don't see anything wrong with a law enforcement officer asking a question. The man, of course, would not be obliged to answer, but it does not preclude the asking. If the guy replied:"Oh, I'm going to shoot the smurfs off my mother's face to preserve liberty for the Nicaraguans!" Then the law enforcement officer would be wise, I think, to remove the bazooka form the guy's possession and put him in the drunk tank to sober up and assess whether or not - with the assistance of a psychiatrist? - if the guy were just plain crazy. I don't know even the staunchest libertarian that would have a problem with police intervention in a case like that, and in that manner. If he is just high, the sheriff could release him in the morning without charges and noone would be harmed or even unduly detained in their normal dailys. The argument that it is common is also a fallacy. I have seen only anecdotal references to this stuff in the news and on the net, and I venture a guess that less than one half of one percent of injuries/deaths in this country are attributed directly to the use of these substances. No government intervention in daily life...Period...The concept of liberty demands an open society. Will people be unfortunately hurt and killed? Yep, but government intervention DOES NOT prevent it!!! People carrying weapons are not dangerous until they threaten or shoot someone. That is the principle belief of liberty, and if you don't feel safe enough in a society like that I suggest you try moving to China. They take care of every aspect of their citizens' lives and mediate their existance. Evil drug dealers are summarily executed in the street to keep drugs away from their citizenry. Normal citizens are not allowed to carry weapons of any sort, and only tools of common use may be transported openly. Even if you brandish a tool of common use as a weapon, you can be shot by police. So, move there for your safety and leave our liberty alone...

[Arklatex]

if someone is selling something harmful without disclosing it they should be punished, the sellers, and it's taken care of! No further laws required.

[RickyJ]

Ban them! :D

[RickyJ]

What exactly is a synthetic drug? Drugs made by pharmaceutical companies?

That is exactly what they are. Everyone has side effects and some are much worse than natural illegal drugs.

[kuckfeynes]

You can't have it both ways.
Either you believe someone has a right to spend their money as they see fit and treat their body as they see fit, or you don't.
Either defend these idiots' rights to ingest potentially highly toxic synthetic drugs, or don't complain that you can't enjoy your natural green drug in peace.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

That is exactly what they are. Everyone has side effects and some are much worse than natural illegal drugs.

Actually, in this context, these are drugs that are NOT made by pharmaceutical companies, but also not illegal. Hence the push for prohibition. (instead of study) There are hundreds of legal synthesized cannabinoids for instance, that could be useful for many different medicinal purposes. These go above and beyond "synthetic weed" because they have different effects on the CB1 and CB2 receptors.


Problems are that some may be dangerous because they contain molecules similar to known carcinogens. (a naphthalene ring, for instance). Many chemists would presume those unsafe (in certain quantities) by looking at the structure. That doesn't mean they are unsafe, just suspected. There are others without that structure, and they could be dangerous as well, since missing that structure doesn't make something safe. They should be tested for safety and then people can see what they are good for as medicine. Instead, the will likely all become illegal.

It's a shame too, because cannibinoids make such excellent medicine because their addiction potential is about zero, and side effects almost zero. (besides maybe making you feel good or sleepy - oh nooooo!)

From From
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endocannabinoid_system

You can read below and see tremendous medicinal potential. It's not just about cancer patients needing to eat.


Functions of the endocannabinoid system


Memory

Mice treated with tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) show suppression of long-term potentiation in the hippocampus, a process that is essential for the formation and storage of long-term memory.[29] These results concur with anecdotal evidence suggesting that smoking Cannabis impairs short-term memory[30] Consistent with this finding, mice without the CB1 receptor show enhanced memory and long-term potentiation indicating that the endocannabinoid system may play a pivotal role in the extinction of old memories. In contrast, a recent study found that the high-dose treatment of rats with the synthetic cannabinoid HU-210 over several weeks resulted in stimulation of neural growth in the rats' hippocampus region, a part of the limbic system playing a part in the formation of declarative and spatial memories. [31] Taken together, these findings suggest that the effects of endocannabinoids on memory are dependent on what type of neurons are being targeted (excitatory vs. inhibitory) and the location of these networks in the brain.


Role in hippocampal neurogenesis

In the adult brain, the endocannabinoid system facilitates the neurogenesise of hippocampal granule cells.[31][32] In the subgranular zone of the dentate gyrus, multipotent neural progenitors (NP) give rise to daughter cells that, over the course of several weeks, mature into granule cells whose axons project to and synapse onto dendrites on the CA3 region.[33] NPs in the hippocampus have been shown to possess FAAH and express CB1 and utilize 2-AG.[32] Intriguingly, CB1 activation by endogenous or exogenous promote NP proliferation and differentiation; this activation is absent in CB1 knockouts and abolished in the presence of antagonist.[31][32]



Induction of synaptic depression

The inhibitory effects of cannabinoid receptor stimulation on neurotransmitter release have caused this system to be connected to various forms of depressant plasticity. A recent study conducted with the bed nucleus of the stria terminalis found that the endurance of the depressant effects was mediated by two different signaling pathways based on the type of receptor activated. 2-AG was found to act on presynaptic CB1 receptors to mediate retrograde short-term depression (STD) following activation of L-type calcium currents, while anandamide was synthesized after mGluR5 activation and triggered autocrine signalling onto postsynapic TRPV1 receptors that induced long-term depression (LTD). Similar post-synaptic receptor dependencies were found in the striatum, but here both effects relied on presynaptic CB1 receptors. [34] These findings provide the brain a direct mechanism to selectively inhibit neuronal excitability over variable time scales. By selectively internalizing different receptors, the brain may limit the production of specific endocannabinoids to favor a time scale in accordance with its needs.



Appetite

Evidence for the role of the endocannabinoid system in food-seeking behavior comes from a variety of cannabinoid studies. Emerging data suggests that THC acts via CB1 receptors in the hypothalamic nuclei to directly increase appetite.[35] It is thought that hypothalamic neurons tonically produce endocannabinoids that work to tightly regulate hunger. The amount of endocannabinoids produced is inversely correlated with the amount of leptin in the blood.[36] For example, mice without leptin not only become massively obese but express abnormally high levels of hypothalamic endocannabinoids as a compensatory mechanism.[37] Similarly, when these mice were treated with an endocannabinoid inverse agonists, such as rimonabant, food intake was reduced.[37] When the CB1 receptor is knocked-out in mice, these animals tend to be leaner and less hungry than wild-type mice. A related study examined the effect of THC on the hedonic value of food and found enhanced dopamine release in the nucleus accumbens and increased pleasure-related behavior after administration of a sucrose solution. [38] A related study found that endocannabinoids affect taste perception in taste cells [39] In taste cells, endocannabinoids were shown to selectively enhance the strength of neural signaling for sweet tastes, whereas leptin decreased the strength of this same response. While there is need for more research, these results suggest that cannabinoid activity in the hypothalamus and nucleus accumbens is related to appetitive, food-seeking behavior.[35]



Stress response

While the secretion of glucocorticoids in response to stressful stimuli is an adaptive response necessary for an organism to respond appropriately to a stressor, persistent secretion may be harmful. The endocannabinoid system has been implicated in the habituation of the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis (HPA axis) to repeated exposure to restraint stress. Studies have demonstrated differential synthesis of anandamide and 2-AG during tonic stress. A decrease of anandamide was found along the axis that contributed to basal hypersecretion of corticosterone; in contrast, an increase of 2-AG was found in the amygdala after repeated stress, which was negatively correlated to magnitude of the corticosterone response. All effects were abolished by the CB1 antagonist AM251, supporting the conclusion that these effects were cannabinoid-receptor dependent. [40] These findings show that anandamide and 2-AG divergently regulate the HPA axis response to stress: while habituation of the stress-induced HPA axis via 2-AG prevents excessive secretion of glucocorticoids to non-threatening stimuli, the increase of basal corticosterone secretion resulting from decreased anandamide allows for a facilitated response of the HPA axis to novel stimuli.




Exploration, social behavior, and anxiety

Prolonged, systemic exposure to cannabinoids has often been associated with anti-social effects. To investigate this theory, a cannabinoid receptor-knockout mouse study examined the effect that these receptors play on exploratory behavior. Researchers selectively targeted glutamatergic and GABAergic cortical interneurons and studied results in open field, novel object, and sociability tests. Eliminating glutamaterigic cannabinoid receptors led to decreased object exploration, social interactions, and increased aggressive behavior. In contrast, GABAergic cannabinoid receptor-knockout mice showed increased exploration of objects, socialization, and open field movement. [41] These contrasting effects reveal the importance of the endocannabinoid system in regulating anxiety-dependent behavior. Results suggest that glutamatergic cannabinoid receptors are not only responsible for mediating aggression, but produce an anxiolytic-like function by inhibiting excessive arousal: excessive excitation produces anxiety that limited the mice from exploring both animate and inanimate objects. In contrast, GABAergic neurons appear to control an anxiogenic-like function by limiting inhibitory transmitter release. Taken together, these two sets of neurons appear to help regulate the organism's overall sense of arousal during novel situations.



Immune function

Evidence suggests that endocannabinoids may function as both neuromodulators and immunomodulators in the immune system. Here, they seem to serve an autoprotective role to ameliorate muscle spasms, inflammation, and other symptoms of multiple sclerosis and skeletal muscle spasms. [42] Functionally, the activation of cannabinoid receptors has been demonstrated to play a role in the activation of GTPases in macrophages, neutrophils, and BM cells. This receptors have also been implicated in the proper migration of B cells into the marginal zone (MZ) and the regulation of healthy IgM levels. [43] Interestingly, some disorders seem to trigger an upregulation of cannabinoid receptors selectively in cells or tissues related to symptom relief and inhibition of disease progression, such as in that rodent neuropathic pain model, where receptors are increased in the spinal cord microglia, dorsal root ganglion, and thalmic neurons. [44]



Multiple sclerosis

Historical records from ancient China and Greece suggest that preparations of Cannabis Indica were commonly prescribed to ameliorate multiple sclerosis-like symptoms such as tremors and muscle pain; unfortunately, however, treatment with marinol has not shown the same efficacy as inhaled Cannabis.[45][46] Due to increasing use of medical Cannabis and rising incidence of multiple sclerosis patients who self-medicate with the drug, there has been much interest in exploiting the endocannabinoid system in the cerebellum to provide a legal and effective relief.[30] In mouse models of multiple sclerosis, there is a profound reduction and reorganization of CB1 receptors in the cerebellum.[47] Serial sections of cerebellar tissue subjected to immunohistochemistry revealed that this aberrant expression occurred during the relapse phase but returned to normal during the remitting phase of the disease.[47] Other studies suggest that CB1 agonists promote the survival of oligodendrocytes in vitro in the absence of growth and trophic factors; in addition, these agonist have been shown to promote mRNA expression of myelin lipid protein. (Kittler et al., 2000; Mollna-Holgado et al., 2002). Taken together, these studies point to the exciting possibility that cannabinoid treatment may not only be able to attenuate the symptoms of multiple sclerosis but also improve oligodendrocyte function (reviewed in Pertwee, 2001; Mollna-Holgado et al., 2002). 2-AG stimulates proliferation of a microglial cell line by a CB2 receptor dependent mechanism, and the number of microglial cells is increased in multiple sclerosis.[48]




Female reproduction

The developing embryo expresses cannabinoid receptors early in development that are responsive to anandamide secreted in the uterus. This signaling is important in regulating the timing of embryonic implantation and uterine receptivity. In mice, it has been shown that anandamide modulates the probability of implantation to the uterine wall. For example, in humans, the likelihood of miscarriage increases if uterine anandamide levels are too high or low.[49] These results suggest that intake of exogenous cannabinoids (e.g. marijuana) can decrease the likelihood for pregnancy for women with high anandamide levels, and alternatively, it can increase the likelihood for pregnancy in women whose anandamide levels were too low.[50][51]




Autonomic nervous system

Peripheral expression of cannabinoid receptors led researchers to investigate the role of cannabinoids in the autonomic nervous system. Research found that the CB1 receptor is expressed presynaptically by motor neurons that innervate visceral organs. Cannabinoid-mediated inhibition of electric potentials results in a reduction in noradrenaline release from sympathetic nervous system nerves. Other studies have found similar effects in endocannabinoid regulation of intestinal motility, including the innervation of smooth muscles associated with the digestive, urinary, and reproductive systems. [52]



Analgesia

At the spinal cord, cannabinoids suppress noxious-stimulus-evoked responses of neurons in the dorsal horn, possibly by modulating descending noradrenaline input from the brainstem. [53] As many of these fibers are primarily GABAergic, cannabinoid stimulation in the spinal column results in disinhibition that should increase noradrenaline release and attenuation of noxious-stimuli-processing in the periphery and dorsal root ganglion.



Other effects

Endocannabinoids have also been reported to interact with a variety of non-cannabinoid specific receptors. In particular, anandamide has been found to cause vasodilation by binding to the VR1 receptor located on the terminal of sensory neurons.[54] This receptor may also be activated by methanandamide and arachidonyl-2'-chloroethylamide (ACEA). [55] However, little is known about source or effects of endocannbinoids in the cardiovascular system and future studies should investigate these topics in greater detail

[The Beastly One]

You can't have it both ways.
Either you believe someone has a right to spend their money as they see fit and treat their body as they see fit, or you don't.
Either defend these idiots' rights to ingest potentially highly toxic synthetic drugs, or don't complain that you can't enjoy your natural green drug in peace.Yes, yes, yes!!! All liberty must be defended or none can exist!!! The only restriction on liberty is harming someone other than yourself, or their property. Period.

[Diurdi]

Most of the dangerous synthetic narcotics exist only because their natural variants were prohibited.

[eduardo89]

Does anyone know if synthetic cannabis gives you the munchies? If it doesn't then I say ban it! Munchies is probably the best part of cannabis, have you ever noticed how damn good it feels to finally eat when you have the munchies? Especially raw cookie dough....yum...

[PeacePlan]

I figure that anything god/nature put on this earth and grows should not ever be Illegal.

Dare I say God given rights to my body and the world around me..


http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/149676_451295396849_719321849_6113615_8119092_n.jp g

[LibertyEagle]

I remember this topic has come up before here, basically synthetic drugs consist of the spice (marijuana wanna be) and bath salts. Both of these products are incredibly harmful, bath salts way more so than spice, but both are terrible alternatives to "real drugs".

Spice gives the user a similar experience to smoking pot, but it is shorter and more likely to give you a headache. It also doesn't burn as clean as pot does, if you smoke out of a glass bowl you will notice it leaves a thick residue all up in there. Smoke alot of it, and that's what your lungs will feel like. I don't think anyone knows just what is in the stuff, but after trying it for some time, this is something I quit on my own, and I have no problem with it being illegal.

Bath salts on the other had make its users just plain crazy. My wife works at the hospital as a nurse, and she is always talking about the people who are coming in because of this stuff. It makes you scary paranoid, to the point that it is not uncommon for people to end up dead because a user felt threatened. Multiple cases reported of users walking down the road with a hatchet or other type of weapon.

Now, I know the libertarian view is that these drugs shouldn't be outlawed, and people have the right to do what they want to themselves, but if I am going to fight that battle, I would prefer to fight for the natural stuff first. These synthetic drugs are no good, and the only reason they got popular is because of the prohibition on less harmful drugs. End the prohibition, and these actually dangerous drugs will be like dust in the wind...

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

I know where you are coming from, but think about it for a minute. Because this is how it starts. Someone thinks they know best how others should live their lives and so they use laws to make it so. Before long, you end up where we are now.

If someone is not infringing on other peoples' rights, everyone else should leave them alone. Come to think of it, it applies to foreign policy too.

[asurfaholic]

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

I know where you are coming from, but think about it for a minute. Because this is how it starts. Someone thinks they know best how others should live their lives and so they use laws to make it so. Before long, you end up where we are now.

If someone is not infringing on other peoples' rights, everyone else should leave them alone. Come to think of it, it applies to foreign policy too.

I agree completely, my point was more, these sythetic drugs are actually bad for you. If I am fighting a battle, to legalize something that I feel is unfairly banned, then im going to concentrate on that first. I have seen firsthand the damage that bath salts inflict on the user, and while it is my personal belief that no government has the right to regulate what we can put into our bodies, I can't bring myself to fight for these specific drugs.

That's just me, I think its easier to convince people to convert people by starting with something that's less harmful. Hemp should be the first step, MJ, next.

However, I agree with everyone who responded... my point was that these drugs are actually really bad...

[pcosmar]

However, I agree with everyone who responded... my point was that these drugs are actually really bad...

I don't doubt it.
When alcohol was prohibited there was some really bad alcohol produced and sold.

my first experience at getting "high" was spinning around in circles till I got dizzy and fell down laughing.
I was probably 3 or 4 at the time. Later i noticed similar effects when filling gas tank on various machines.
I probably tried every type of drug when I was in the Army. some I liked, some I didn't.

Mankind has been getting high since the beginning of time.
Banning shit never works.

[Endgame]

I think they're fine. It's in man's nature to make these things, the same as it is in a bee's nature to make honey. I'm a fan of man! When I say man is a part of nature, I really mean it. Nuclear reactors, landing on the moon, GM crops, cell phones, skyscrapers, concentration camps... it's no less natural than a honeycomb. It's all just atoms.

The idea that something being synthetic means it is inherently more likely to have adverse effects is bullshit. Take anticholinergic drugs as an example. They can be used to increase the heart rate among many many other side effects. The classic one is Atropine from deadly nightshade. It causes a variety of nasty central nervous/psychoactive side effects. Robinul is a synthetic drug in the same class that has no CNS side effects as it doesn't even enter the brain.

The argument that cannabis is NATURAL (even though it's been selectively bred so intensely that some cultivars practically ooze THC, and grown in closets with constant intense light and nutrition that don't remotely resemble natural conditions) and therefore benign is not one I would make.

[schwa]

Banning synthetic drugs is a pointless endeavor. When one is banned, three more hit the market as replacements. It is dangerous that people market these substances in poor neighborhoods with the active ingredients not labeled and no usage instructions. I have experimented with over 50+ designer drugs over the past 25 years, lots of these substances can be used for a better understanding on how are brains work.

I did get addicted to MDPV, used it daily, for over a year. I am now clean. In the year I was doing MDPV, I got two promotions at work and lost 50 pounds. I think if I went another 6 months using it I would be dead. No way can the government stop it. Obama is going to sign a law soon that bans all the 2C’s and a big chunk of the known cannabinoids. Hundreds of known easy to obtain legal synthetic drugs are not covered under the new ban.

Alexander Shulgin is releasing his life work, thousands of new designer drugs will be created from this work. Shulgin is recovering from a severe stroke. If you like drugs, research Alexander Shulgin if you have not already. The Shulgin family are taking donations to help pay for his recovery. After you max out your donations for Ron Paul, consider sending him some love, the man deserves it.