VIDEO: King of Bain: "When Romney Came to Town" (Full Documentary Released)

[Constitutional Paulicy]

Hot of the press..............


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrKlj4Q3nSQ


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sniIMY96Bs

[Paulite]

thanks

[MyEyesTheyBurn]

Stoked.

[schiffheadbaby]

did bain get any fed bailouts? i know mitt shredded a lot of financial documents and has said he won't release his tax forms like other candidates

[Constitutional Paulicy]

Thanks to Gingrich for his support of Ron Paul. :D

[Tyler_Durden]

did bain get any fed bailouts? i know mitt shredded a lot of financial documents and has said he won't release his tax forms like other candidates

Yes:

http://www.nationalconfidential.com/20120110/romney-got-10-million-federal-bailout-at-bain/

[TravisforPaul]

Thanks for the free attack ad Gingrich! haha

[PastaRocket848]

This is fantastic. Republicans will hate Newt for attacking capitalism AND independents will hate Romney for whatever they see in the video. It's a win-win, for us.

[opinionatedfool]

Nice ad Newt:)

[TheLasersShadow]

I can't imagine how Romney is going to win the general with the economy getting worse and with this history. The public doesn't understand economics AT ALL so these attacks will be devastating.

[icon124]

I was really wanting to actually defend Mitt on what he did...because restructuring is a very big key role in the economy, BUT if he used insider influence to gain profit at the expense of lies and misleading like this video says...well to hell he must go lol

DDI is very disturbing...using analysts to pump a stock and then sell it....as a day trader I know first hand that analysts don't do research because they think a company will grow...they do ratings to sell to the sheep while the big guys have someone to unload to...

I see this EVERY day being active in the market it becomes a sixth sense

[opinionatedfool]

I think this should get moved to Grassroots so it gets more attention. I'd like to see more conversation around this.

[Constitutional Paulicy]

I think this should get moved to Grassroots so it gets more attention. I'd like to see more conversation around this.

It was in Grass Roots but the mods moved it here. :(

[Diurdi]

If Gingrich actually gets ppl to watch this... uhhh...

They alledge Romney of doing some pretty scetchy stuff.

[jcarcinogen]

Spreading to my conservative AND occupy circles...

[opinionatedfool]

It was in Grass Roots but the mods moved it here. :(

Kind of strange. This could have a really big impact in SC. It would be good to see what people think about spreading it, etc.

[zerosdontcount]

wow, this is pretty good dirt

[Pyruuub]

Yes:

http://www.nationalconfidential.com/20120110/romney-got-10-million-federal-bailout-at-bain/

Wow. Bain capital actually received a bailout? What a crook. Romney is a total hypocrite worse than Gingrich.

[jcarcinogen]

Kind of strange. This could have a really big impact in SC. It would be good to see what people think about spreading it, etc.

Yeah we should try to make it go viral... wouldn't that be a grassroots initiative?

[jct74]

Kind of strange. This could have a really big impact in SC. It would be good to see what people think about spreading it, etc.

OK, I'll move it back. I move most of the opposing candidates stuff I see to Opposing Candidates, too much of it is getting posted in Grassroots Central, but if people really want it in Grassroots Central I'll move it back. I don't think its really at a disadvantage in Opposing Candidates and I think it makes more sense to be there, but that's fine, I could be wrong.

[kfking]

Making this go viral would be good, but even if Romney did receive bailouts I would try to avoid mentioning Ron Paul. The media will try to spin it as Ron Paul supporters supporting Gingrich in anti-capitalism.

[fuzzybekool]

Awesome ! This will knock out Romney and Gingrich :)

[opinionatedfool]

Making this go viral would be good, but even if Romney did receive bailouts I would try to avoid mentioning Ron Paul. The media will try to spin it as Ron Paul supporters supporting Gingrich in anti-capitalism.

I agree. I wouldn't mention Ron Paul if promoting.

[ElizabethR]

Awesome ! This will knock out Romney and Gingrich :)
How will it knock out the Grinch too?

[orenbus]

dayummmmm michael moore eat your heart out, they made him look like gordon gecko and the women on the verge of crying is going to hit "out of work" people like a two by four.

if any of the illegal insider trading allegations are true we should probably distance ourselves from defending this is as just capitalism.

[Virtual Isolation]

I can't imagine how Romney is going to win the general with the economy getting worse and with this history. The public doesn't understand economics AT ALL so these attacks will be devastating.

Gingrich decided to channel Les Grossman and went scorched earth. There is NO CHANCE that Obama won't sieze on this later and obliterate Romney with it; he's dead in the water if he gets to the general.

Having the Paul campaign put out statement against the ad was a brilliant move.

[normal_rc]

How will it knock out the Grinch too?

A lot of Republicans (like Rush Limbaugh) are criticizing Newt Gingrich for attacking free market capitalism, and appearing like a leftist socialist.

[Shane Harris]

compare mitt in these videos to ron paul in the compassion ad, giving free care to patients who couldn't afford it and never accepting medicare or medicaid and turning down his congressional pension.

[nowwearefree]

for some reasons, i just can't relate myself to those people being fired in the video
i think they are rather selfish and are being used
they do not know any economics and so i don't blame them
its like people only see the workers as those who suffer, yet a lot of owners and investors also suffer if the bad company continues to run

[Ilhaguru]

Yes:

http://www.nationalconfidential.com/20120110/romney-got-10-million-federal-bailout-at-bain/

That's NOT a bailout! That's a debtor-creditor renegotiation in the face of bankruptcy. The article even says "other creditors accepted" the deal.

[Pyruuub]

That's NOT a bailout! That's a debtor-creditor renegotiation in the face of bankruptcy. The article even says "other creditors accepted" the deal.

Actually it IS a bailout if you benefit through counter-party risk. If they bailed out a Bain Capital creditor because of a loss that creditor occurred through Bain Capital then it is 100% a bailout of Bain Capital.

If you read news reports of the AIG bailout and the amount of money that went to its derivitive counter-parties then you will understand how this can be exactly considered a bailout.

IF BAIN took money through a bailout of its creditor Romney is the biggest hypocritical crook ever to show his face on a public stage. IF.

[Pyruuub]

Secondly your renegotiation of debt hypothesis is bullshit because the counter party is the government, via the FDIC, and the negotiation hurts the PEOPLE not a private renegotiation of debt, which hurts the creditor and forces capitalism(ie. Bankruptcy).

There's a BIG difference.

[rpwi]

Those 'getting back your bait' tactics are most curious...and IMO border on fraud (to the other shareholders and debtholders).

In a normal capitalist system...you get money out of company by receiving dividends. When you have control over the board of directors and can bypass this mechanism with pseudo 'management fees' (they're stealth dividends) and stock buybacks of the buying company (suprised Bain did that) you're being dishonest to other shareholders of the company you control, you're being dishonest to the debt holders (the banks probably know what's going on but dump that bad debt elsewhere ASAP) and with the stock buy back you're cheating the at-large investor who sold you the shares because you're using insider information.

Bain probably broke a bunch of law on the way...wouldn't surprise me in the least. Federal and state law protecting parterners/shareholders/debtholders is quite complex in these matters.

Part of the problem with these investment firms is actually created by the federal government. The federal government makes debt tax deductable (stupid...all types of financing should be taxed equally). They also massively create debt with the federal reserve system and the banks the fed props up...this over investment in debt worms its way into places it shouldn't including investment firms like Bain. Then the federal government protects investment firms from the debt they create through corporate laws. Using a controlling interest to put a company into massive debt then use that to finance a cash flow (like a stock back) back to your investment company can only happen because the contracts your creditors signed can't go through your shell system of companies.

[tsetsefly]

I am as pro free-market as you can get bu here are my 3 takeaways from this:

1. What a horrendous use of the term creative destruction by Romney, Schumpeter is rolling in his grave right now. I hope Paul corrects him on this , lol...

2. THis is what happens when every policy is aimed at inflating the stock market and financial sector. These companies where bought onlyt to raid them , artificially inflate the value of the stocks , sell them high and then watch everyone else get screwed over. Horrible and undignified.

3. If this gets out and distributed properly, it will be devastating...

[Feeding the Abscess]

dayummmmm michael moore eat your heart out, they made him look like gordon gecko and the women on the verge of crying is going to hit out of work people like a two by four.

if any of the illegal insider trading allegations are true we should probably distance ourselves from defending this is a just capitalism.

Haven't watched the video, but insider trading is part of a free market.

[1836]

I'm sure it is just a laughable attack on free market principles, but I'm still going to watch it. It is posted if you have not seen:

http://www.webcasts.com/kingofbain/

[Carole]

A lot of Republicans (like Rush Limbaugh) are criticizing Newt Gingrich for attacking free market capitalism, and appearing like a leftist socialist.

This whole scorched earth campaign has a little something for everyone. Most Americans would be shocked by this video. It is not just Bain that was doing this. Every town in American likely has people who experienced something similar by some company buying out a small business or large business.

If this makes it to network television, Romney will be dead in the water. It makes him look like a greedy monster. The people will not see this as free market capitalism as it should be. Making big money off other people's money and/or pain does not paint a pretty picture of "the candidate". Steve Jobs was a great capitalist. Romney is not.

[MrTudo]

gingrich the cockroach actually tries to do something productive probably without realizing it as gingrich is among the lowest forms of life on the planet. He should drop out of the race and support Dr Paul and go into his twilight years having done at least one good thing in his miserable thieving and hypocritical low-life.

[Carole]

for some reasons, i just can't relate myself to those people being fired in the video
i think they are rather selfish and are being used
they do not know any economics and so i don't blame them
its like people only see the workers as those who suffer, yet a lot of owners and investors also suffer if the bad company continues to run

My problem with these companies in the examples is that they did not appear to be in trouble until Bain became involved with them, running up huge debts, downgrading quality, firing folks, extracting all the money from them. They did not buy these companies to rehabilitate them, but to do planned bankruptcies. It is very easy to relate to the people in the video. This began happening in my town about three decades ago and the town never recovered.

Most people do not understand capitalism. It is personal with them. This video gives capitalism a very bad aura.

[Unknown.User]

..

[Sublyminal]

Was pretty eye opening, does portray Mittens as nothing more than a liar about creating jobs.

[1836]

I think this video is despicable and goes after free market ideas in a way that is utterly ignorant.

That said, anything that takes Romney down can't be entirely a bad thing.

[1836]

Almost done with the video. It is making me sick. This is an ignorant, liberal attack on free market principles if there ever was one.

[Nirvikalpa]

thread already posted, merging.

[hammy]

Lol, let's not kid ourselves people. 99% of the people that are going to watch this don't have a CLUE about free-market economics. As long as it makes him look bad, I really don't care. Hahahha I am loving that Newt is damned determine to take Romney down with him. Leaving...

[nasaal]

Effective and deadly. I do have an issue with it though. It made far too many emotional arguments. I understand that emotional arguments are important to people, but they are substantive. The facts could have been given in 5 minutes or less, no reason to spend thirty minutes talking about sick and pregnant people. I'm sorry for themI really am, and it is terrible what Romney did. But trying to make people hate Romney based on emotional arguments is weak and irritating. It's why I love Paul ads, they state the facts, use your own words, and that's really it.

[schiffheadbaby]

don't shed a tear for MITT.

he was ruthless jumping on the good doctor in 2008 on baseless grounds. He is playing nice now to try to win us over. WILL NOT HAPPEN.

Some of the stuff in here is crap, but I'm not going to complain considering how he has slandered us over the years. Reap what you sow romney

[normal_rc]

Whether you agree with the message or not, strategically, the documentary hurts both Mitt Romney & Newt Gingrich, so that helps Ron Paul (as long as Ron Paul's name doesn't get attached to the video). It makes Mitt Romney less likeable, and it makes Newt Gingrich look like a bitter left-wing socialist.

- "The enemy of my enemy is my friend"

- "Never interrupt your opponent when he is making a mistake"

So I hope the video goes viral, and destroys the Mitt Romney & Newt Gingrich campaigns, and Ron Paul wins the GOP nomination :)

[rprprs]

Sure will be interesting to see how much play or mention this gets in the media. Despite any anti-capitalism message, it is absolutely and unquestionably devastating to the Romney brand.

(But, I agree. Keep Paul's name away from it.)

[LandonCook]

I was really wanting to actually defend Mitt on what he did...because restructuring is a very big key role in the economy, BUT if he used insider influence to gain profit at the expense of lies and misleading like this video says...well to hell he must go lol

DDI is very disturbing...using analysts to pump a stock and then sell it....as a day trader I know first hand that analysts don't do research because they think a company will grow...they do ratings to sell to the sheep while the big guys have someone to unload to...

I see this EVERY day being active in the market it becomes a sixth sense

I was going to say the exact same thing.

[purepaloma]

One thing this video proves.......if Mitt were to get the GOP nomination, he'll get SLAUGHTERED vs Obama. This video will look like child's play.

RON PAUL vs OBAMA is THE only real chance for the GOP, but not many understand....yet.

[J_White]

seems Newt did at least one good thing, I wouldnt mind Mitt coming down a few notches.

[P. R. Robinson]

Wow! That really has emotional impact. I don't think it will be addressed by the candidates that much but if it airs a lot in South Carolina, Romney is toast.

[JJ2]

I haven't watched it yet, but if it's really that devastating, hopefully the billionaire who is supporting Newt can get it on TV in SC soon!

[Mark37snj]

I think the issue that alot of people who are defending Mitt because he was conducting capitolism miss is that Mitt is running for President and this video and his past actions shed light on his character. Running for President is more than "I havn't broken any laws so you can't hold it against me". It's about many things including integrity, morality, honesty, compassion, ect. This video shows that Mitt FAILS in all those listed and more. So don't focus too much on the narraow perspective of "Its Capitolism and it's legal". Perry was right, Vulture Capitolism is just plain heartless. Yes its legal, yes its part of capitolism, but I want more in my President than someone who never broke the law. I want him to actually care about people.

[orenbus]

Haven't watched the video, but insider trading is part of a free market.

even when it's a manipulation of the market through fraud?

[JJ2]

I think the issue that alot of people who are defending Mitt because he was conducting capitolism miss is that Mitt is running for President and this video and his past actions shed light on his character. Running for President is more than "I havn't broken any laws so you can't hold it against me". It's about many things including integrity, morality, honesty, compassion, ect. This video shows that Mitt FAILS in all those listed and more. So don't focus too much on the narraow perspective of "Its Capitolism and it's legal". Perry was right, Vulture Capitolism is just plain heartless. Yes its legal, yes its part of capitolism, but I want more in my President than someone who never broke the law. I want him to actually care about people.

Yes, I think this is what Newt meant when he said it is unfortunate that the left has "poisoned the well" to where he can't even talk about these things without being accused of attacking capitalism. What Hannity and Limbaugh don't understand is that neither Newt nor Perry are saying that Romney did anything that the government should stop (they are not anti-capitalism), unless he did do something illegal, but rather the morality/character of Romney's actions.

Hopefully Ron Paul will learn more of the details (as I plan to do--I haven't watched the video yet), and not keep defending Romney.

[michaelwise]

Erin Burnett talking about the same issue on CNN right now.

[michaelwise]

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?349944-It-s-OK-to-Let-Obama-Win-if-Ron-Paul-is-Not-the-GOP-Nominee


Erin Burnett talking about the same issue on CNN right now.

[jsem]

You can't use his capitalism against him, but he sure can NOT relate to ordinary people and RP must capitalize on that.

[JacobSzumniak]

Newt Gringrich should give up on politics and go into documentary making.
This video, if it goes viral is going to be like Hiroshima for Romney's campaign.

[normal_rc]

Newt Gringrich should give up on politics and go into documentary making.

The "King of Bain" documentary was made by a former Romney staffer.

The Gingrich Super PAC bought the rights to it.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45911039/ns/politics-decision_2012/

[Muwahid]

Almost done with the video. It is making me sick. This is an ignorant, liberal attack on free market principles if there ever was one.

Even though it's demonizing the free market, and has an OWS feel to it, one thing we can agree on is Mitt... is a bit of a douche.

[Dsylexic]

my worry is,this will start hammering Romney and the talking heads will ASK RON PAUL all the time about it.and rp ,true to principles,will defend romney wasting precious energy and time.
the campaign needs to come up with a strategy to deflect questions on it ,like doug wead or rand,and instead make it about our talking points.

[Chainspell]

someone put this on a DVD and title it "Before you vote for Mitt Romney, watch this video"

[Constitutional Paulicy]

Bump

[opinionatedfool]

I don't have time now, but someone should contact the campaign and make sure they watch this video before commenting about it. It would be bad if they defend it without knowing its contents.

[Student Of Paulism]

Wow this could be the nail in Romneys coffin, needs to go viral.

[dcjones]

I think that this video speaks to Mitt’s vulnerability in a General Election. One could argue that he is not nearly as electable as previously supposed.

THAT IS THE BEST WAY TO APPROACH THIS!

Looking at the exit polls in NH. It seems a large part of Mitt's supporters only voted for him due to his ability to beat Obama.

I can just imagine the OWS crowd in a general election with this video, the outcries will be enormous.

[RDM]

Exit polls in NH also showed people were not fazed with Mitt and Bain Capital. This has to be handled with kid's gloves or it could backfire and help Romney.

[blabam]

Uhm the beginning of this film almost made me throw-up. F'n propaganda. I don't like it.

[Diurdi]

Uhm the beginning of this film almost made me throw-up. F'n propaganda. I don't like it. In the end it accuses Romney of "Pump and Dump" as well as Insider trading...

[dcjones]

Exit polls in NH also showed people were not fazed with Mitt and Bain Capital. This has to be handled with kid's gloves or it could backfire and help Romney.

It was two days old. It seems these type of stories need at least a week to "fester" in the MSM before it gets any teeth.

[Joseph]

I actually remember Kay Bee toys going bankrupt. When I was little that was my favorite toy store and I remember when I heard that they closed, I was just thinking "that place was my childhood". Now I find out that it was Mitt Romney who caused that.

[blabam]

In the end it accuses Romney of "Pump and Dump" as well as Insider trading...

Ok will give it a try :D

[Constitutional Paulicy]

They say if you really want to take someone down, you have to turn their strength into a weakness. This sure is an aggressive approach at that very tactic.

[Original_Intent]

In regards to the thread title: Someone really does need to do a re-write of the lyrics for "King of Pain" and Youtube it.

[VRG]

Most of it is just your average day anti-capitalism propaganda. I feel sorry for those people who lost their jobs, but if they were so (cost-)productive and the companies so profitable the companies would either still be there, or new companies would have been started to profit from the skills of these people. I have no information on these companies or Bain capital, but I'm going to go out there and say these companies were heading for bankruptcy anyway, probably because the employees had gotten too expensive (thank you government endorsed unions!), and Romney just did a good job for his investors in finding the most profitable way to sell the assets. A profit that comes at the expense of the former owners of the company by the way, and no one else.

The part about insider trading does seem sketchy, but there is really no verifiable information on it let alone proof, so I think you should take that with a pretty big grain of salt. If true, this does say a lot about Romney's character though. I personally think Romney isn't a bad guy, just grossly misinformed. I think the campaign is doing the right thing in criticizing this attack, or at least handling it very cautiously. If the campaign did endorse this ad in some way, it would surely backfire in a major way in the general elections since naked capitalism is exactly what RP propagates. Talk about hypocrisy...

As far as below the belt hit pieces go though this is surely a good one, and it will hurt Romney if it gets out there, which is good for us. So be it. Ron Paul 2012!

[Feeding the Abscess]

even when it's a manipulation of the market through fraud?

The "pump and dump" in this story is basic restructuring, there was no fraud, and the insider trading accusation is speculative at best. Not that insider trading is bad, anyway. This ad is ridiculous, and is probably the absolute dumbest thing someone claiming to defend free markets could promote. This is exactly what Ron Paul promotes, and here we have supporters spreading this crap and probably attaching Ron's name to this anti-market nonsense.

It should be completely clear to everyone that Newt Gingrich is as much a socialist as anyone walking the earth.

[luctor-et-emergo]

They say if you really want to take someone down, you have to turn their strength into a weakness. This sure is an aggressive approach at that very tactic.
If you would like a nice read into tactics, I'd suggest buying Sun-Tzu's 'Art of War', 2400 year old book with tactics that still apply to the basics of warfare, but also politics.

Some of it is kind of vague, but other parts are very much on the money. The first couple of chapters give a great outline in understanding conflict. Conflict does not have to be armed to use proven warfare tactics does it ?

There is a great emphasis on using resources wisely, keeping moral up, and simple to understand concepts of winning as the underdog.

PS: 2400 year old original manuscripts, the book is in print at different publishers these days.

[Pyruuub]

The "pump and dump" in this story is basic restructuring, there was no fraud, and the insider trading accusation is speculative at best. Not that insider trading is bad, anyway. This ad is ridiculous, and is probably the absolute dumbest thing someone claiming to defend free markets could promote. This is exactly what Ron Paul promotes, and here we have supporters spreading this crap and probably attaching Ron's name to this anti-market nonsense.
!
It should be completely clear to everyone that Newt Gingrich is as much a socialist as anyone walking the earth.

How the hell can insiders trading benefit the free market?

If you're on the board of a company and you're about to release an earnings report, and you trade in the millions of shares with the knowledge that the market will either react unfavorably or favorably, that is a crime.

I don't understand the defenders here of insiders trading. Are you people joking? What kind of a system are you imagining where insiders trading is good?

[Feeding the Abscess]

How the hell can insiders trading benefit the free market?

If you're on the board of a company and you're about to release an earnings report, and you trade in the millions of shares with the knowledge that the market will either react unfavorably or favorably, that is a crime.

I don't understand the defenders here of insiders trading. Are you people joking? What kind of a system are you imagining where insiders trading is good?

http://mises.org/econsense/ch50.asp

http://mises.org/daily/1544

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/11/insider_trading_is_fine_but_not_in_congress.html

http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard60.html

[Pyruuub]

http://mises.org/econsense/ch50.asp

http://mises.org/daily/1544



http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/11/insider_trading_is_fine_but_not_in_congress.html

http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard60.html

Can you justify the position that insiders trading is beneficial to a free market? Because I don't believe it, and quite frankly, you have to be pretty dumb to believe it.

I will give you an example.

Buffet buys 20% of McDonalds
Berkshire announces plan to acquire McDonalds for double its current price
Buffet sells McDonalds share and makes billions

This IS insiders trading and it is vile and corrupt. A publically traded company traded by people with non-public information is a THEFT. It creates and fosters THEFT and destroys any belief in the market.

Insiders trading is NOT a victimless crime becausditdestroys stock holder equity.

[TakeThePowerBack]

There is nothing wrong with free markets; make all the money you can, just do it honestly. I do have a problem with greed and the cheating that comes along with it. The whole "if you ain't cheatin', you're only cheatin' yourself" attitude. I think this ad is about greed, and not about free markets other than in a free market, watch out for the greedy bastards. I have never in my life liked big corporations and do my best to support local business and stay away from corporations. ... but that's just me. Of course I do have a verizon phone... but that's not really my fault. When I first got my service it was with cellular one, who got bought by bell south, who got bought by verizon... I hope Milo's (local burger chain) doesn't get bought by wal mart....

[Feeding the Abscess]

Can you justify the position that insiders trading is beneficial to a free market? Because I don't believe it, and quite frankly, you have to be pretty dumb to believe it.

I will give you an example.

Buffet buys 20% of McDonalds
Berkshire announces plan to acquire McDonalds for double its current price
Buffet sells McDonalds share and makes billions

This IS insiders trading and it is vile and corrupt. A publically traded company traded by people with non-public information is a THEFT. It creates and fosters THEFT and destroys any belief in the market.

Insiders trading is NOT a victimless crime becausditdestroys stock holder equity.

Read the links I provided.

[Liberty74]

I haven't watched it yet, but if it's really that devastating, hopefully the billionaire who is supporting Newt can get it on TV in SC soon!

Suppose to start airing today in SC.

[Pyruuub]

Read the links I provided.

I read the link you provided. It's a joke. Rothbards defence of insiders trading is a joke. His arguments are either very weak or intentionally deceptive.

Claiming insiders trading is a victimless crime is a joke because it allows for manipulation of market value prices of publically traded corporations and in the process decieves shareholders who are your counterparty to trades. This further errodes confidence in financial markets.

I want you to address why you believe insiders trading is a victimless crime where one person has non-public information from a public company and intentionally decieves another person who either owns that company or is buying shares of that company.

If all you can do is link to an article your argument is shit and mute. You really don't understand the argument and you're a parrot.

[VRG]

I read the link you provided. It's a joke. Rothbards defence of insiders trading is a joke. His arguments are either very weak or intentionally deceptive.

Claiming insiders trading is a victimless crime is a joke because it allows for manipulation of market value prices of publically traded corporations and in the process decieves shareholders who are your counterparty to trades. This further errodes confidence in financial markets.

I want you to address why you believe insiders trading is a victimless crime where one person has non-public information from a public company and intentionally decieves another person who either owns that company or is buying shares of that company.

If all you can do is link to an article your argument is shit and mute. You really don't understand the argument and you're a parrot.

There is a difference between insider trading and fraud.

[Pyruuub]

There is a difference between insider trading and fraud.
If you have non-public knowledge of a company and you profit from a transaction of stock you're deceiving the counter-party to that transaction. Deception is good, but using the non-public information in a publically traded company means that the board of that company and people who have knowledge of its performance will be destroying investor equity by giving non-public information to certain people rather than making that information public.

This pretty much erodes any trust in financial markets.

[Pyruuub]

I have to go we can continue this conversation later.

[Feeding the Abscess]

I read the link you provided. It's a joke. Rothbards defence of insiders trading is a joke. His arguments are either very weak or intentionally deceptive.

Claiming insiders trading is a victimless crime is a joke because it allows for manipulation of market value prices of publically traded corporations and in the process decieves shareholders who are your counterparty to trades. This further errodes confidence in financial markets.

I want you to address why you believe insiders trading is a victimless crime where one person has non-public information from a public company and intentionally decieves another person who either owns that company or is buying shares of that company.

If all you can do is link to an article your argument is shit and mute. You really don't understand the argument and you're a parrot.

Not really interested in discussing anything with someone with your attitude, sorry. I'd rather post links that are the basis of my position (from Ron Paul's mentor, no less, and the father of modern libertarianism) as a way of spreading information. To continue that activity:


There is another critical aspect to the current Reign of Terror over Wall Street. Freedom of speech, and the right of privacy, particularly cherished possessions of man, have disappeared. Wall Streeters are literally afraid to talk to one another, because muttering over a martini that "Hey, Jim, it looks like XYZ will merge," or even, "Arbus is coming out soon with a hot new product," might well mean indictment, heavy fines, and jail terms. And where are the intrepid guardians of the First Amendment in all this?

But of course, it is literally impossible to stamp out insider trading, or Wall Streeters talking to another, just as even the Soviet Union, with all its awesome powers of enforcement, has been unable to stamp out dissent or "black (free) market" currency trading.

From James Miller:


Much to the dismay of those who regard government as the great equalizer in society, humanity is inherently unequal. Certain people have better access to information than do others. In the realm of a market economy, the faster industry information is shared, the sooner productive factors are designated to more efficient use. Our world of scarce resources necessitates the allotment of information as soon as possible.

The irrationality of insider trading prohibition can be thought about in another way. Suppose a stock trader overhears a conversation at a bar between two executives of, say, Apple. The executives are expecting a supply chain disruption of raw materials to a key manufacturing plant. This information is not public yet. Because of this "insider information," our stock trader decides against buying more shares of Apple. The next day, Apple stock tanks, and the stock trader isn't at a loss because he refrained from buying a stock he was initially going to purchase. Should he then be prosecuted? How does one prosecute non-action?

Another good link, in addition to the four I provided earlier:

http://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2011/01/27/its_time_to_make_insider_trading_fully_legal_98841 .html

[Immortal Technique]

Yawn, i could barely make it through this thing.Yes Mitt is an insensitive douche bag, i didnt need this drawn out documentary to know this.Extremely boring.

[raystone]

Insider trading is non issue.

The real issue is how Obama would use Romney's Wall St. history to crush him.

This vid needs to be spread with message of "This is how Obama would destroy Romney in general. Romney has no chance against Obama."

[DonovanJames]

Uploaders name is "MittStorm"... classic

[Occam's Banana]

I read the link you provided. It's a joke. Rothbards defence of insiders trading is a joke. His arguments are either very weak or intentionally deceptive.

Claiming insiders trading is a victimless crime is a joke because it allows for manipulation of market value prices of publically traded corporations and in the process decieves shareholders who are your counterparty to trades. This further errodes confidence in financial markets.

I want you to address why you believe insiders trading is a victimless crime where one person has non-public information from a public company and intentionally decieves another person who either owns that company or is buying shares of that company.

If all you can do is link to an article your argument is shit and mute. You really don't understand the argument and you're a parrot.
If all you can do is spew invective at those who disagree with you, what makes you think anyone would want to address anything with you? :confused:

[InTradePro]

Insider trading is non issue.

The real issue is how Obama would use Romney's Wall St. history to crush him.

This vid needs to be spread with message of "This is how Obama would destroy Romney in general. Romney has no chance against Obama."

Yes.

[orenbus]

I actually remember Kay Bee toys going bankrupt. When I was little that was my favorite toy store and I remember when I heard that they closed, I was just thinking "that place was my childhood". Now I find out that it was Mitt Romney who caused that.

I think that is exactly the impact they were going for with the little kid in front of the TV learning about KB Toys going under. Many of us that remember that are voting age and some of us being politically active and plants a seed that we can tell others we know, "hey remember KB toys? Your not going to believe this...".

[orenbus]

Most of it is just your average day anti-capitalism propaganda. I feel sorry for those people who lost their jobs, but if they were so (cost-)productive and the companies so profitable the companies would either still be there, or new companies would have been started to profit from the skills of these people. I have no information on these companies or Bain capital, but I'm going to go out there and say these companies were heading for bankruptcy anyway, probably because the employees had gotten too expensive (thank you government endorsed unions!), and Romney just did a good job for his investors in finding the most profitable way to sell the assets. A profit that comes at the expense of the former owners of the company by the way, and no one else.

The part about insider trading does seem sketchy, but there is really no verifiable information on it let alone proof, so I think you should take that with a pretty big grain of salt. If true, this does say a lot about Romney's character though. I personally think Romney isn't a bad guy, just grossly misinformed. I think the campaign is doing the right thing in criticizing this attack, or at least handling it very cautiously. If the campaign did endorse this ad in some way, it would surely backfire in a major way in the general elections since naked capitalism is exactly what RP propagates. Talk about hypocrisy...

As far as below the belt hit pieces go though this is surely a good one, and it will hurt Romney if it gets out there, which is good for us. So be it. Ron Paul 2012!

Yea I just think in light of the ad itself the campaign should take a more cautious defense of Romney basically defending capitalism but with the caveat that Ron Paul has no idea what Romney did at Bain Capital (which would be the truth), he could very well been the character in the movie Pretty Women or Gordon Geco in Wall Street or the movie Boiler Room having a front company pumping the stock and dumping it while those in the market hold onto a shell worth nothing in the worst case, basically buying up healthy companies and then breaking up the companies to sell for the parts, which maybe completely legal but many Americans wouldn't want that type of background in their President per say, let Romney defend himself on the allegations.

[socal]

In the case of K B Toys, there may be something there. According to the following, (part of) Romney's defense is that he didn't have an active management role in Bain at the time,

Romney Film Stretches Truth While Taking Comments Out of Context
http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-11/anti-romney-film-stretches-truth-while-taking-his-comments-out-of-context

From initial impressions, it looks like Bain saddled KB Toys with debt, took the money (and then some), and left the bank(s) and former owner holding the bag.

Quote is from file #5 in list below,
http://www.bankruptcymisconduct.com/new/index.php/search/bain.html?ordering=&searchphrase=all

5. In or around April 2002, notwithstanding the deterioration in the KB Companies' business as the nation slid into recession in 2001 and early 2002, the Defendants severly leveraged and further encumbered the already strained KB Companies by borrowing many millions of dollars from secured lenders and paying the proceeds, together with substantially all of the KB Companies' available cash, to themselves in the form of bonuses and repurchases of 65% of KB Holdings' stock, worth in excess of $85 million. Together, the KB Companies' borrowings and the subsequent cash payments to the Defendants are hereinafter referred to as the "Equity Distribution Transaction".

6. The effect of the Equity distribution Transaction was to encumber substantially all of HCC's assets and to strip all of the value from HCC and the Operating Subsidiaries. The Equity Distribution Transaction resulted in the Defendants' receiving an enormous and unjustified return on their investment of more than 600% (not counting the substantial additional bonus payments made to Defendants Glazer and Feldman and other insiders) and ultimately in HCC's default on Big Lots' $45 million HCC Note.

7. As part of the Equity Distribution Transaction, HCC and the Operating Subsidiaries made millions of dollars of payments to certain of the defendants and other insiders, including: (1) in excess of $85 million in cash payments, principally to the Bain Defendants (as defined below), ...

[Constitutional Paulicy]

They are discussing "When Romney Came to Town" on MSNBC's Morning Joe. Interesting discussion....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036789/vp/45969529#45969529