Robo call against Ron about gay marriage

[SilentBull]

A co-worker who I've convinced to vote for Paul told me he's getting robo calls about Ron being for gay marriage. When he told his mother he was voting for Paul she said "but isn't he for gay marriage?" Ugghh. I fucking hate politics and people. How can we fix anything when the people are so freaking dumb?

[fisharmor]

...lawsuits?

[JohnGalt23g]

...lawsuits?

Are you kidding?

[torchbearer]

i thought the media was telling me he was a homophobe and in bed with a preacher that wanted to kill homosexuals.

[Ronulus]

so he's racist, but he's all for gay marriage?

Seems like he got the steps in his path to progressiveness wrong.

[SilentBull]

i thought the media was telling me he was a homophobe and in bed with a preacher that wanted to kill homosexuals.

I know right? Which one is it?

[bluesc]

Where do you live?

[braane]

I am guessing that it might hurt with the conservative vote, but New Hampshire is much more liberal than most states. It might help. Just think 40% Independents. Even if it is a lie, Ron could benefit.

Besides, do people actually listen to robocalls? Whenever a machine calls me I just hang up.

[trey4sports]

ughhh.... I have a really really bad taste in my mouth re: robocalls after having been in Iowa.

[ZanZibar]

Where does your friend live? What lists are he on? Who paid for the call?

It's important that we know this!

[SilentBull]

Where does your friend live? What lists are he on? Who paid for the call?

It's important that we know this!

He lives in New Hampshire. I live in Mass. He just said it was from some marriage coalition.

[steph3n]

Santorum......

[Rincewind]

Santorum......

It certainly does smell like him.

No pun intended.

[ItsTime]

This should get us some votes, not lose votes..... indies are for gay marriage. Santorum getting booed off the stage should have proven that.

[harikaried]

http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/indexpend.php?cmte=C90011057&cycle=2012
National Organization for Marriage

[PastaRocket848]

this does have santorum all over it lol.

question is, is he trying to help us or something? news flash: 80% of the country aren't bigoted, probably less in NH. you're preaching to your (very small) choir with that one.

[seyferjm]

They did the same crap in Iowa too, I wouldn't be surprised at all if it cost us a good chunk of votes.

[ds21089]

this does have santorum all over it lol.

question is, is he trying to help us or something? news flash: 80% of the country aren't bigoted, probably less in NH. you're preaching to your (very small) choir with that one.

It doesnt matter. There's more people likely to be turned off and not vote for him because of that then there are of people whom will then vote for him solely because of that. Any way they can drop his numbers, they will.

I bet the majority of them are christians, too. Being a christian myself, I find it pathetic that the most judgmental people these days are religious people. Thou shalt not be a hypocrite! Sheesh!

[Krugerrand]

Reminder ... if you get a negative robocall (or other campaign fundraising call) ... keep the call going as long as you possibly can. You do not want their systems to be able to dial on to the next caller.

[gerryb]

This is the same call that swung Iowa

[Rincewind]

Hey, FYI, did some digging, http://actright.com/ is run by the same guy who run the National Organization for Marriage.

Oddly enough, seems to be mainly a pro-Thaddeus McCotter guy, but their records also show some donations to Santorum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_S._Brown

So... yeah. Take from that what you will.

[UNC08]

This is the same call that swung Iowa

This ain't Iowa. Calls like that would be much more meaningful in South Carolina.

[Barrex]

A co-worker who I've convinced to vote for Paul told me he's getting robo calls about Ron being for gay marriage. When he told his mother he was voting for Paul she said "but isn't he for gay marriage?" Ugghh. I fucking hate politics and people. How can we fix anything when the people are so freaking dumb?


Please collect all information you can (when was called, who called, number) ALL INFORMATION!!!!

And please send it to campain....

This must reach campaign!!!!!


Who on this forum got any contact with official campaign?

[ZanZibar]

They will do this in every state.

[Constitutional Paulicy]

I bet the majority of them are christians, too. Being a christian myself, I find it pathetic that the most judgmental people these days are religious people. Thou shalt not be a hypocrite! Sheesh!

So refreshing to hear someone else who is a Christian also say this.

[bluesc]

They will do this in every state.

How much money have they been raising recently?

[Jingles]

This should help us in New Hampshire.

[LisaNY]

Must be NOM. They ran ads against Ron in Iowa too, it was even reported here in NY.

[harikaried]

This must reach campaign!!!!! I'm sure the campaign knows. But what do you expect them to do about it?

[roc_rob]

It is hilarious that Paul attacks vary between accusations that he is either secretly for or against gay marriage, depending on whether those attacks originate from the right or the left.

[Brett85]

This is the kind of stuff that hurts in a state like Iowa, and it probably did hurt Ron in Iowa. But obviously it won't hurt at all in a state like New Hampshire.

[Jingles]

Can someone please explain to me why social-conservatives are so against gay marriage? I've had a lot of difficulty understanding what exactly their argument is for years (even back when I used to be a typical Republican neocon). When it comes down to it marriage is just a contract between two individuals, but they call the agreement marriage. So from their viewpoint: homosexuals can engage in all other contracts and contracts can be called whatever they want them to be so long as they don't call them marriage?

Like what exactly is their argument against it? I just don't understand.

[ItsTime]

Can someone please explain to me why social-conservatives are so against gay marriage? I've had a lot of difficulty understanding what exactly their argument is for years (even back when I used to be a typical Republican neocon). When it comes down to it marriage is just a contract between two individuals, but they call the agreement to marriage. So from their viewpoint: homosexuals can engage in all other contracts and contracts can be called whatever they want them to be so long as they don't call them marriage?

Like what exactly is their argument against it? I just don't understand.

Because they are big government authoritarians.

[Delivered4000]

I'm just sad that people don't do fact checks

[Havax]

Oh no! Gay dudes love each other and want to enter into a formal agreement! Send the national guard in.

[braane]

Nvm.

[gerryb]

Oh no! Gay dudes love each other and want to enter into a formal agreement! Send the national guard in.

Make sure none of them told you they were gay, first!

[Esoteric]

Why the hell aren't we fighting back? Are we going to let them take us down AGAIN?

[roc_rob]

Can someone please explain to me why social-conservatives are so against gay marriage? I've had a lot of difficulty understanding what exactly their argument is for years (even back when I used to be a typical Republican neocon). When it comes down to it marriage is just a contract between two individuals, but they can the agreement to marriage. So from their viewpoint: homosexuals can engage in all other contracts and contracts can be called whatever they want them to be so long as they don't call them marriage?

Like what exactly is their argument against it? I just don't understand.

Conservatives often see the state as the last guardian of moral, religious, and cultural values. As the state is responsible for defining 'marriage' before the law, conservatives view efforts to redefine marriage as an assault on their own traditional views. They see it as an assault at their last line of defense.

It is not unlike the view that Israel is sustained through our protection, rather than weakened by the dependence we encourage.

I think that these viewpoints reflect a common failure to accept that that ceding power to a higher authority for the sake of protection actually often weakens the institutions that the misguided are trying to protect. Both the left and right are often equally guilty of this charge. Redefinition of marriage is only a threat to social conservatives because authority for its definition has been ceded to the state.

Marriage is not simply a voluntary contract. 'Marriage' affords special privileges and benefits through law, and the state determines eligibility for marriage licenses. I am not arguing that it should be this way, just noting that it is for the time being.

Paul advocates getting the government out of marriage, which I support. If people then want protection for the terms of their union under the law, nothing will prevent them from entering into voluntary contracts with one another, and they can call it whatever they want. I think that is the viewpoint you are also representing. I also think it is a great solution.

I think social conservatives can be reached by asking: why do you want to give the government the ultimate power in defining marriage, as opposed to your church?

If that does not reach them, then a reminder that Paul's position would apply only at a federal level may be effective.

Cheers to both the social conservatives and gay people we have in our ranks, live and let live!

Paul unites.

[Echoes]

Can someone please explain to me why social-conservatives are so against gay marriage? I've had a lot of difficulty understanding what exactly their argument is for years (even back when I used to be a typical Republican neocon). When it comes down to it marriage is just a contract between two individuals, but they call the agreement marriage. So from their viewpoint: homosexuals can engage in all other contracts and contracts can be called whatever they want them to be so long as they don't call them marriage?

Like what exactly is their argument against it? I just don't understand.

When you say "they call it marriage", who is they ? The Govt calls that contract marriage, the vast majority of the world rejects the idea of homosexual marriage.

In a free society, the State wouldnt be involved at all in marriage. Homosexuals know the only way to mainstream so called homosexual marriage is through State propaganda, they are terrified of the free-market and how 'gay marriage' would be ostracized.

[sailingaway]

i thought the media was telling me he was a homophobe and in bed with a preacher that wanted to kill homosexuals.

Oh, he's both, of course, it goes by the calendar day....

:rolleyes:

[sailingaway]

This is the kind of stuff that hurts in a state like Iowa, and it probably did hurt Ron in Iowa. But obviously it won't hurt at all in a state like New Hampshire.

Oh, it will hurt with some. But, whatever.

[sailingaway]

Can someone please explain to me why social-conservatives are so against gay marriage? I've had a lot of difficulty understanding what exactly their argument is for years (even back when I used to be a typical Republican neocon). When it comes down to it marriage is just a contract between two individuals, but they call the agreement marriage. So from their viewpoint: homosexuals can engage in all other contracts and contracts can be called whatever they want them to be so long as they don't call them marriage?

Like what exactly is their argument against it? I just don't understand.

It is because they are concerned their churches which hold marriage as a holy sacrament will have to conform their sacraments to secular law and that is sacrilege. That is why government OUT of marriage altogether (Ron's way) works. Churches can go according to their theological beliefs, but some churches are fine with gay marriage so gay people would get married there or enter into private ceremonies.

Then there are the VERY FEW who just want anything gay put back in the closet, by force of law, but honestly, that is NOT the primary point of most religious people who are against it. They feel their own theology is under attack.

[torchbearer]

When you say "they call it marriage", who is they ? The Govt calls that contract marriage, the vast majority of the world rejects the idea of homosexual marriage.

In a free society, the State wouldnt be involved at all in marriage. Homosexuals know the only way to mainstream so called homosexual marriage is through State propaganda, they are terrified of the free-market and how 'gay marriage' would be ostracized.


everyone has a right to enter into a contract with another person. that is all it is-

[GunnyFreedom]

He lives in New Hampshire. I live in Mass. He just said it was from some marriage coalition.

Those people are awful. Pretend to be Christians but lie more than the atheists. I expect to be hounded by these people, as the darling-child of the big marriage coalition is running against me in the primary...

[Greg Buchanan]

This explains why they skipped Ron on the gay marriage issue during the debate.

[Feeding the Abscess]

It is because they are concerned their churches which hold marriage as a holy sacrament will have to conform their sacraments to secular law and that is sacrilege. That is why government OUT of marriage altogether (Ron's way) works. Churches can go according to their theological beliefs, but some churches are fine with gay marriage so gay people would get married there or enter into private ceremonies.

Then there are the VERY FEW who just want anything gay put back in the closet, by force of law, but honestly, that is NOT the primary point of most religious people who are against it. They feel their own theology is under attack.

Almost every person I ever knew from my time in the church who was vocal against gay marriage did so on the basis that God/the bible says it's a sin. And this is from southern California, not Alabama or something.

[Liberty74]

A co-worker who I've convinced to vote for Paul told me he's getting robo calls about Ron being for gay marriage. When he told his mother he was voting for Paul she said "but isn't he for gay marriage?" Ugghh. I fucking hate politics and people. How can we fix anything when the people are so freaking dumb?

Ron isn't for gay "marriage" but he does believe that any two adults should be able to get together and call it whatever they want. Technically, Paul doesn't want government involved in marriage period. The better question is - why does the so called right and Christians do?

Anyhoo, this is no doubt a far right wing anti-freedom, anti-liberty fascist group trying to stir the pot. I dunno, maybe a Santorum or Perry would be my guess or some outside group on behalf of them.

[PastaRocket848]

It doesnt matter. There's more people likely to be turned off and not vote for him because of that then there are of people whom will then vote for him solely because of that. Any way they can drop his numbers, they will.

I bet the majority of them are christians, too. Being a christian myself, I find it pathetic that the most judgmental people these days are religious people. Thou shalt not be a hypocrite! Sheesh!

i don't agree. i think 90% of the country could care less... maybe 5-7% actively campaign in favor of it, and the other 3-5% are an overly vocal minority in opposition.

[Brett85]

Oh, it will hurt with some. But, whatever.

If people are going to base their vote on an issue like gay marriage when our country has a 1.6 trillion dollar deficit and a 15 trillion dollar national debt, our country is in some serious trouble.

[Echoes]

everyone has a right to enter into a contract with another person. that is all it is-

Yes, 100%. Anyone can go to lawyers and sign whatever contract they want.

The difference is, the State decrees that contract as 'marriage'. If the Govt wasnt involved at all in marriage, nobody (except a very tiny minority) would call it marriage. It's all about social engineering and getting everyone into this one-world, one-size-fits-all mentality. And if you dont endorse someones sexual habits, they slap you with buzzwords like 'bigot' LOL

[DamienMaddox]

marriage licenses weren't even required until after the civil war, they were created as a way to prevent interracial couples from getting married. just based on that, people shouldn't want justify any reason to continue using them.

social conservatives argue that if we allow gay marriage, that polygamists will want their turn next. but technically, when you sign a marriage license, you are entering a contract with your spouse and the state. sounds to me like polygamy is forced on us.

[sailingaway]

Those people are awful. Pretend to be Christians but lie more than the atheists. I expect to be hounded by these people, as the darling-child of the big marriage coalition is running against me in the primary...

I've seen the ads, it is Vander Platts' group NOM. I feel like the girl in poltergeist.....

"They're ba-a-a-a-ck!!

[sailingaway]

marriage licenses weren't even required until after the civil war, they were created as a way to prevent interracial couples from getting married. just based on that, people shouldn't want justify any reason to continue using them.

social conservatives argue that if we allow gay marriage, that polygamists will want their turn next. but technically, when you sign a marriage license, you are entering a contract with your spouse and the state. sounds to me like polygamy is forced on us.

They might have been used that way, but the purpose was for health.

[sailingaway]

Yes, 100%. Anyone can go to lawyers and sign whatever contract they want.

The difference is, the State decrees that contract as 'marriage'. If the Govt wasnt involved at all in marriage, nobody (except a very tiny minority) would call it marriage. It's all about social engineering and getting everyone into this one-world, one-size-fits-all mentality. And if you dont endorse someones sexual habits, they slap you with buzzwords like 'bigot' LOL

I think a ton of people would call it marraige. It is religious, but it is also cultural.

[Esoteric]

Almost every person I ever knew from my time in the church who was vocal against gay marriage did so on the basis that God/the bible says it's a sin. And this is from southern California, not Alabama or something.

So sad. Thankfully our generation is trending away from delusional / superstitious thinking. fast.

[Philadelphia76]

so he's racist, but he's all for gay marriage?

Seems like he got the steps in his path to progressiveness wrong.

He's the KKK Grand Wizard Fuehrer of the modern-day isolationist Kill Israel movement that nevertheless wants to insure that gays have the ability to marry come hell or high-water....

:rolleyes:

[PastaRocket848]

So sad. Thankfully our generation is trending away from delusional / superstitious thinking. fast.

amen! we can't get there fast enough...

[Barrex]

I'm sure the campaign knows. But what do you expect them to do about it?

Why do you think that? Unless they have a mole in his campaign I dont see it. Knowledge is power. And if someone has launched attack on Ron Paul campaign should be notified of that so that they can react accordingly.

P.s.
how did your caucus speech went?

[harikaried]

Knowledge is power. And if someone has launched attack on Ron Paul campaign should be notified of that so that they can react accordingly.I'm still not sure what you expect the campaign to do about it.. even going forwards to other states. It doesn't seem to be in the campaign's best interest to point out he is or isn't for gay marriage. It would probably work best to just find more voters that agree with Ron Paul on the economy.


how did your caucus speech went?Good. Much better than the rest of the people that went before me. Rick Perry came up on the stage after me. Ron Paul got more votes than Perry there. ;) (Several people including reporters came up to me and told me it was a great speech.)

[Jingles]

everyone has a right to enter into a contract with another person. that is all it is-

Exactly. That is all I am saying.

Echoes: I don't want government involved in "marriage" at all. I am just trying to understand the logic of the argument against it because I have no idea what they are arguing against. From my viewpoint it seems as if they want to restrict certain people from engaging in contracts for superficial reasons. I don't really distinguish marriage from other contracts in the way that it should be treated. A contract is a contract is a contract. People can call it what they wish, but it's still a contract. Because if you asked someone who is against "gay marriage" if gay people should be allowed to engage in contracts with one another they wouldn't object, but if they want to refer to the contract as "marriage" they will throw a hissy fit. So I'm just trying to understand why they are so hung up on a word. To me it just seems like arbitrary discrimination to not allow people of a certain sexual orientation to peacefully and voluntarily engage in a certain type of contract. They might not feel that they are discriminating via the force of the state, but I'm just trying to understand if there is a substantive argument against it by them (that actually as some merit or at least I can better follow the logic) or if it is just fear/emotion dictating their view point. I'm assuming its the latter, but I was just curious about a viewpoint I didn't understand.

[GunnyFreedom]

I've seen the ads, it is Vander Platts' group NOM. I feel like the girl in poltergeist.....

"They're ba-a-a-a-ck!!

Seriously, these people are crooked as hell. NOM published a recent brochure with wide crowd shot that we were supposed to assume was a pro traditional marriage rally. It was actually from a pro gay marriage rally. That was the only way they could get a crowd shot to fit their narrative.

All the alleged christians surrounding the marriage issue is like public exhibit #1 for the apostasy of the American church. These people have more dishonesty than hard core criminals.

A spring does not send forth both sweet water and bitter, it either sends forth sweet water or bitter water. It cannot send forth both.

These people and most of those like them are 21st century Pharisees, and I can assure you that they will have their reward.

[Barrex]

I'm still not sure what you expect the campaign to do about it.. even going forwards to other states. It doesn't seem to be in the campaign's best interest to point out he is or isn't for gay marriage. It would probably work best to just find more voters that agree with Ron Paul on the economy.

Good. Much better than the rest of the people that went before me. Rick Perry came up on the stage after me. Ron Paul got more votes than Perry there. ;) (Several people including reporters came up to me and told me it was a great speech.)

I am glad to hear that about your speech.

Campaign doesnt have to do anything about it. What campaign needs is to know everything that is relevant and when someone is doing a "Robo call against Ron about gay marriage" I think that that is relevant. If there was such a big mess about 1 video posted on youtube (The one about Huntsman beeing attacked by person who represents him self as Rons supporter) this could have some weight too... Just saying knowledge is good.


I couldnt find who is financing them. Who is? And to whom are they connected?

[Jingles]

It is because they are concerned their churches which hold marriage as a holy sacrament will have to conform their sacraments to secular law and that is sacrilege. That is why government OUT of marriage altogether (Ron's way) works. Churches can go according to their theological beliefs, but some churches are fine with gay marriage so gay people would get married there or enter into private ceremonies.

Then there are the VERY FEW who just want anything gay put back in the closet, by force of law, but honestly, that is NOT the primary point of most religious people who are against it. They feel their own theology is under attack.

Okay this I can understand. But that just brings up private property and private organizations. They don't have to recognize gay marriage at their churches or allow it to be done. They get to dictate what their organization supports and decide what to allow to happen on their property. I suppose they just feel as if they are going to be forced to perform them. I always feel like this kind of stuff is assumed, but a lot of people have very little understanding of property rights or the state has severely eroded them.

Thank you.

[Johncjackson]

It would help him in New Hampshire. And Probably the general election. Just probably not too much anywhere in between. This is why i didn't understand Rick Perry going out of his way to talk about being anti-gay marriage at the debate ( though it is Rick Perry).

[harikaried]

I couldnt find who is financing them. Who is? And to whom are they connected?
http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/indexpend.php?cmte=C90011057&cycle=2012
NOM: National Organization for Marriage

[harikaried]

someone is doing a "Robo call against Ron about gay marriage" I think that that is relevant.... Just saying knowledge is good. Agreed. I'm sure the campaign already knows. There are more Ron Paul supporters living in New Hampshire than on these forums. If they answer a call attacking Ron Paul, a good number of them will call back to headquarters. (Not to mention they already went through this in Iowa.)

[Barrex]

I meant who is financing "National Organization for Marriage "? Could we send to their donors emails? Could we tell them stop harrasing me with lies just because I am Ron Paul supporter?

[Echoes]

So sad. Thankfully our generation is trending away from delusional / superstitious thinking. fast.

So you support a delusional guy like Umm Ron Paul !! Shows a lack of integrity on your part, which is pretty common with atheists. I could never support anyone i thought was delusional.

[GunnyFreedom]

I meant who is financing "National Organization for Marriage "? Could we send to their donors emails? Could we tell them stop harrasing me with lies just because I am Ron Paul supporter?

Unfortunately that would likely make them double down on donations. In their mind it is their little group against all the forces of satan arrayed against them, and if it doesn't come from internals then it must come from satan. Therefore, even if it sounds completely true, it must be a lie because it comes from satan.

No really. It's how they think. I wish I were making it up.

[Aratus]

the dirty tricks & quiet PAC money behind the scenes began in iowa.
its continuing in new hampshire and in three days S.C is to be a zoo.