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View Full Version : Are you supporting Ron Paul for the sake of liberty or for the sake of Ron Paul?




nexalacer
11-09-2007, 09:20 PM
Ron Paul is not Jesus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Sf_rciBSxk)

Questions?
Comments?
Flames?

Is this about liberty or Ron Paul? For me, it's about liberty, how about you?

Adamsa
11-09-2007, 09:21 PM
I like his positions.

nullvalu
11-09-2007, 09:22 PM
How about both?

This is about Liberty. This is also about a man with integrity like noone else in Washington.

steph3n
11-09-2007, 09:22 PM
The person could be anyone the message is powerful :D

hopeforamerica
11-09-2007, 09:23 PM
Mostly for liberty, however a lot for Ron Paul! He has stood for liberty his entire career. No other politician has his ethics or consistent stance on the issues. He is as honest as they come. So, I'd have to say both.

UCFGavin
11-09-2007, 09:23 PM
i would like to say liberty...but i think if RP gets shunned in the primaries i'll probably just say the people get what they deserve.

jesshwarren
11-09-2007, 09:24 PM
The message. I agree with Ron Paul 100%. There is no other.

nullvalu
11-09-2007, 09:25 PM
The person could be anyone the message is powerful :D

not necessarily.. why, then was there not this kind of huge groundswell around Michael Badnarik? Not to take anything away from Michael, but - there is definately something different this time 'round..

LibertyEagle
11-09-2007, 09:26 PM
The message, but also the lifetime track record of Paul. He has proven that he will do what he says. The man has integrity.

Adamsa
11-09-2007, 09:26 PM
I think the guy in the video is an idiot because if we were shouting liberty no one would know which candidate we were talking about.

EvoPro
11-09-2007, 09:26 PM
It also has to do with the fact that he is a Republican, and it's very hard for 3rd parties to get exposure due to the corrupt system. Also, a lot of people are waking up to our loss of freedom over the years.

evadmurd
11-09-2007, 09:27 PM
I'd even vote for Hillary if she said, believed, and had the track record to back it up as Dr. P does.

Did I say that?

Pauliana
11-09-2007, 09:27 PM
Liberty. And I trust Ron Paul to restore it.

nullvalu
11-09-2007, 09:28 PM
Plus I don't know WTF this guy in the video is talking about.. We're pumping a guy who, to us, represents the possibilities of Liberty. This is, after all, a grassroots presidential campaign... and yes, we have a message too. What's wrong with both?

nullvalu
11-09-2007, 09:28 PM
I think the guy in the video is an idiot because if we were shouting liberty no one would know which candidate we were talking about.

exactly

Ron Paul Fan
11-09-2007, 09:28 PM
Both! The message mostly. Ron Paul may have his shortcomings, but the message of liberty has no shortcomings. But Dr. Paul's stellar record makes it much easier to trust that he'll stick to his word.

And Badnarick probably isn't the best example as he didn't have the same access to the national stage that Congressman Paul has being part of the Republican Party.

RPTXState
11-09-2007, 09:30 PM
I think he said something like "I have my shortcomings, but the message is perfect."

The message is Freedom, and the messenger is Ron Paul.

andrewgreve
11-09-2007, 09:31 PM
Shawn (the name of the person in the video) is unduly negative about the whole thing, which shows me that he doesn't quite get what's going on. The Ron Paul rEVOLution is about liberty and love. Also, he doesn't understand the function of mythology in society. I have talked with him about the ideas Joseph Campbell presents, but he does not understand them. I am the person who said that there will be statues of Ron Paul in the future.

Nexalacer, since you are posting things like this here I think it's only fair that I come back to FDR and make a few posts. What do you think? Your leader is openly in competition with Ron Paul. I couldn't believe when he said that he wishes people would stop wasting money on politics (Ron Paul) and give it to him instead. It's all a game with you guys.

jcbraithwaite7
11-09-2007, 09:35 PM
You know how when you get a bad message and you hear, "Don't shoot the messenger" and it is hard not to be mad at the guy telling you.

Well, I love Ron Paul's message and I love the messenger.

ladyliberty
11-09-2007, 09:37 PM
You know how when you get a bad message and you hear, "Don't shoot the messenger" and it is hard not to be mad at the guy telling you.

Well, I love Ron Paul's message and I love the messenger.


Ditto! :)

Mitt Romneys sideburns
11-09-2007, 09:38 PM
The message of liberty is fantastic. Many have brought this message, but Ron Paul seems to stand above the rest. Ron Paul has support because people see him as a once in a lifetime candidate in the caliber of the founding fathers. There may not be another like him in a hundred years, and by then it may be too late to turn things around.

That, along with the current climate of politics. Everyone is much better informed, and everyone is so divided along opposite ends of the wrong spectrum.

Ron Paul is the right guy at the right time.


To quote Stargate SG-1 :

Col. O'Neill: I can save these people!

Teal'c: Many have said that... But you are the first I believe could do it!

Nash
11-09-2007, 09:41 PM
This guy has some points but it's really a stretch.

It's the total package. I agree with his views and like him as a candidate. I generally agree with Libertarian views but usually don't like their candidates for a variety of reasons (all about pot, not serious, no experience, no chance to win as 3rd party etc..).

Sometimes I even like other Republican candidates and I vote for them. Just not in this presidential election. Ron Paul is the only one I like.

Tons of presidents have been elected based on the way they speak, what they look like or how they make people "feel". Policy positions are important, but personality, for better or for worse, can't be ignored.

jkaufmann
11-09-2007, 09:42 PM
Support the Message or the Man.
Only Man can send the Message. It is a cyclical feedback loop.
Only certain Men can send certain Messages.
Only at certain intervals in time when current events warrant the occasion, will people in the masses be receptive to a Message they normaly would ignore.

To understand any issue it is best to take it to its extremes (from Greenspan's book. He talks about finding absurdity by looking at extreme examples of situations)

Example: What if Guliani suddenly switched his message after winning the primary, to be near RPs? (Including Foreign policy)
Would you support the Message then? Probably not all things considered. Wouldn't trust him.

Example: We were just attacked in WW2. Paul the same as he is today, sends his Message. Would it be the right Message at that time to be accepted? Probably not.

So you see, only Paul can send this Message, at this time, and have it be heard.

There could be others like Paul, don't get me wrong on that. But they are still on the wings; waiting. Waiting for the possible post Goldwater era for a Reagen and his Message to finally take hold.

Whether Paul is the Vangaurd sacrificial lamb building momentum for the next Man to carry on the torch in the next time period to a more receptive media, or he is the chosen one for this time period, is yet to be determined.

Either way we cannot loose. Just the time for victory, is uncertain.


Semper Fidelis

paulitics
11-09-2007, 09:46 PM
The revolution does not begin or end with Ron Paul. He is the Jefferson of our time, but their must be many more patriots that step up to the plate. The seeds of liberty must be planted.

Akus
11-09-2007, 09:55 PM
Ron Paul is not Jesus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Sf_rciBSxk)

Questions?
Comments?
Flames?

Is this about liberty or Ron Paul? For me, it's about liberty, how about you?

You're absolutely correct, Ron Paul is not Jesus. I don't agree with his border policy and while I agree we have to GTFO or Iraq, I don't agree with the logic he uses for why we need to get out.

Ron Paul, however is the closest thing to a small governemnt bureaucrat that we had since a long ass while. If Hillary Clinton's rhetoric and political past were identical to Ron Paul, believe me I'd donate my maximum to Hillary Clinton. In fact, I personally think Mike Gravel is the next best thing if there were no Ron Paul in this equation.;)

Vvick727
11-09-2007, 09:57 PM
I think lots of us and Dr. Paul himself have acknowledged that it isn't about just him any more..

There is no way all of us would do what we do just for one person.
This is a battle of ideologies; of principles and philosophies.

We as a country (one could argue world) have been lead astray, and as a small (at the moment),
determined base we've found a messenger who can bring these philosophies to
the country that as a whole has long forgotten about.

It seems to me that us and Dr. Paul know that this is bigger than just getting the
Presidency, repealing the 16th amendment, bringing our troops home, or any of the other things he could get done as president.

Seems to me as if it'll usher in a long-needed shift in thought.
I'd like to imagine it being called the Age of Re-Enlightenment.

:o

shepburn
11-09-2007, 09:58 PM
the message of the U.S. Constitution is the reason for my support. Ron Paul just happens to be the most credible carrier of this message.

Menthol Patch
11-09-2007, 10:11 PM
Ron Paul is the ONLY non-traitor in all of the congress and senate.

There should be a "cult" of personality around him since he is the ONLY decent politician we have!

nexalacer
11-09-2007, 10:16 PM
Nexalacer, since you are posting things like this here I think it's only fair that I come back to FDR and make a few posts. What do you think? Your leader is openly in competition with Ron Paul. I couldn't believe when he said that he wishes people would stop wasting money on politics (Ron Paul) and give it to him instead. It's all a game with you guys.

I think you can do whatever you like. My leader? Interesting. I don't agree with him about Ron Paul, yet I continue to happily donate to both him and Ron Paul. I think you take his "cultiness" way too seriously... how does that make you feel? ;)

I posted this video because I think he has a point, although I see some flaws in what he said as well. But the important thing is that this cannot be about Ron Paul for the sake of Ron Paul. I support him because he does have integrity, but I don't think he's going to actually be able to do much precisely BECAUSE he has integrity.

All I see him doing is bringing the paid murderers home, rolling back the unitary executive powers, and hopefully, getting more people interested in libertarian ideas, with the eventual goal of getting more people into market anarchy.

But when people start talking about Ron Paul, rather than liberty, it is like people are hoping for some savior to come and magically make the world a better place. This is the problem with religion and this is the problem with focusing on the man, rather than the message. The message of liberty means the change lies within YOU, not Ron Paul.

Of course in the campaign, you must mention his name to get him elected, but please be careful that you don't cross the line into worshiping the man, because like us all, he is just a man and the power of the office could corrupt him. If it does (which I hope it doesn't!!) and many people worship him rather than the message, it would set back freedom another generation, at least.

So call the guy in the video an idiot, call me a troublemaker, and call Ron Paul the second-coming, if you like, but I'm here for freedom, not for a man.

courtney
11-09-2007, 10:21 PM
Liberty. I wish there were more candidates comparable to Ron Paul to choose from as I am interested in seeing a significant paradigm shift in regards to political debate. The more candidates to choose from, the better.

Until then, I'll support Paul.

Hurricane Bruiser
11-09-2007, 10:24 PM
I support Liberty and the message in general that Ron Paul is giving. However, if another politician says the same things that Ron Paul does but his or her voting record doesn't back up the message, then I couldn't fully support that person. The combination of the man, message, and record is why I support Ron Paul. By the way, I am really getting tired of hearing news reports saying that his supporters only support him for his position on the war and don't know or support his other views. How utterly stupid. A number of his supporters supporters support him in spite of his position on the Iraq war.

curtisag
11-09-2007, 10:27 PM
This video is ridiculous. Ron Paul is not being worshiped. It's the ideas he supports that are powerful, not the man himself. I can't recall an election where the people have had the chance to elect a truly revolutionary candidate with revolutionary ideas like Ron Paul. If there is a cult forming around Ron Paul, it's because of his ideas, not him. He has stated he is not a good politician or orator. It's true, he is not an especially good speaker. He is just the most honest man with a great message to come along in a long, long time. Freedom is popular!

Triton
11-09-2007, 10:30 PM
Isn't it obvious? Government run amok. Lies from our government. States which are little more than administrative districts.

mconder
11-09-2007, 10:51 PM
The liberty movement has been waiting for a catalyst for many years now. What not Ron Paul? His integrity alone is enough for me to stand behind him. He is not Jesus to me, but he may just be a man of great historical significance. America needs a real hero.

Menthol Patch
11-09-2007, 11:02 PM
Ron Paul is a TRUE hero.

cac1963
11-09-2007, 11:46 PM
Liberty. And I trust Ron Paul to restore it.

Liberty and trust. Exactly.

American
11-09-2007, 11:48 PM
Its not everyday that a statesmen like Ron Paul comes around risks his neck, his professional life to help the American people, most of whom he has never met. I admire that and the least thing I can do is support him.

Liberty
11-09-2007, 11:52 PM
Both. I am so impressed with this man's knowledge and integrity. It was a great honor to shake his hand and thank him for what he is doing earlier this year. I voted for him in the 1988 presidential election and again in 2000 as a write in. I look forward to casting my vote for him in 2008.

Naraku
11-10-2007, 01:00 AM
I think he's addressing a very basic problem with our society. It's the same situation we see with every major leader. Look at Reagan, look at Kennedy, look at FDR, look at Teddy Roosevelt, look Lincoln, look at Jefferson, and look at Washington.

The problem is that we have people who identify the man with the message, rather than the message with the message and the man with the man.

However, I also think he's overreacting. Part of this so-called "cult of personality" actually comes from a greater sense of personal importance rather than some cult-like subservience. People want to make Ron Paul happen to make Ron Paul happen. I think a lot of people are more or less acting on Ron Paul to embrace some greater feeling of self and an image of liberty.

I mean, it is truly amazing what Ron Paul supporters have done. This is not some orchestrated revolution, but a purely spontaneous movement. It's people coming together and overturning all the obstacles. It's regular people defying the combined machinery of the state, big business, and the court of public opinion. Ron Paul is our creation, nothing more. If it wasn't Ron Paul it would be someone else.

That's where I think this guy is wrong.

I think if we were to truly compare Ron Paul to any President in recent history it would be John F. Kennedy. Ron Paul, like JFK, defies all the power structures that exist right now. However, he's not as good as Kennedy or maybe the establishment is simply better than it was then. One way or the other Ron Paul can't get anywhere without the people. Kennedy, for the most part, got in power through the establishment and, as far as I'm concerned, his political career was ended by the establishment. In comparison the people, you and me, are going to be the ones to put Paul in power.

That's why people get so excited about Ron Paul, because Ron Paul is just an extension of the people's will and strength in defiance of the powers that be.

Perry
11-10-2007, 01:05 AM
I support Ron Paul because he is dead on on the issues.

jake
11-10-2007, 01:19 AM
liberty, integrity.
its not Ron, it's the message.

seapilot
11-10-2007, 01:23 AM
Liberty, freedom. Dr. Paul does an excellent job delivering the message and his principals,straight talk,integrity,intelligence are bar none.

Corydoras
11-10-2007, 01:27 AM
NEITHER!

I'm a paleoconservative, and this election cycle, Ron Paul best represents that strain of thought-- though he is not an ideal paleo candidate. Concern with liberty is a big element in paleoconservatism, but far from the defining one, and many paleos have criticized libertarianism quite sharply.

Ron Paul's positions on civil liberties and his canniness as a politician are two big reasons I am enthusiastic about him, but he's not the ideal paleoconservative. In terms of libertarian values, I really don't care if he is libertarian, so long as he is against the Patriot Act, the Military Commissions Act, HIPAA, and the revision of the Insurrection Act.

The reason I am so firmly committed to supporting his candidacy is that he is the best candidate at this moment in the history of this country. But that is not about liberty or about him, it is about his appropriateness at this time.

sylvania
11-10-2007, 01:43 AM
I support Ron Paul. This guy reminds me of Tucker on his bad days, "If it isn't pure and perfect, it ain't for me." Who cares if Ron Paul is gaining popularity. It's a good thing! And who is he to judge that? You'd think he would be happy people are standing behind someone who is standing for liberty. Do people get a little too excited sometimes? Sure. Big deal. I wish I had the kind of time this guy obviously has, to sit around and dream up ways to be pessimistic.

Broadlighter
11-10-2007, 01:48 AM
Ron Paul is not Jesus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Sf_rciBSxk)

Questions?
Comments?
Flames?

Is this about liberty or Ron Paul? For me, it's about liberty, how about you?

You're right, Ron Paul is not Jesus. I'm not voting for Jesus for president, I'm voting for Ron Paul and that's because of his adherence to principle and understanding of what America is supposed to be about. It's about liberty and no one else comes close to championing that cause.

I was out today waving signs and talking to people about Ron Paul. I got into a discussion with a Democrat. She doesn't agree with Ron Paul on many of her pet issues. I told her I supported him because he is the strongest advocate for the rule of law, the Constitution and personal liberties.

"Oh, but that goes without saying for anyone running for office," is how she responded. She just assumes that all politicians believe in these things so there's no need to campaign on them. I told her that we've ventured quite far from those ideas and we Ron Paul supporters want someone who doesn't take them for granted. Imagine that - we don't need to bring up issues of following the Constitution and personal liberty. This is what we're up against. Ron Paul's name has to get out there, so people can identify a name with the ideas.

Don't get so worked up over the personality cult stuff perpetrated by some of his supporters. We're just trying to get the word out and let people know there is a real choice this time.

JosephTheLibertarian
11-10-2007, 02:10 AM
I like his positions.

same.

And I really love a maverick! ;)

chrismatthews
11-10-2007, 02:19 AM
Liberty, but since Murray Rothbard is dead, Dr. Paul is a great figurehead for the movement, and a man of integrity.

Marceline88
11-10-2007, 02:26 AM
I think my signature says what I feel the best about this video and any other criticism of people and their support for Ron Paul.

derdy
11-10-2007, 02:31 AM
Ron Paul is not Jesus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Sf_rciBSxk)

Questions?
Comments?
Flames?

Is this about liberty or Ron Paul? For me, it's about liberty, how about you?

both.

it's the message + the man

we need other ETHICAL people that cherish the Constitution to step up to the plate (I plan on doing so in 2010)

Craig_R
11-10-2007, 02:58 AM
the people, you and me, are going to be the ones to put Paul in power.

That's why people get so excited about Ron Paul, because Ron Paul is just an extension of the people's will and strength in defiance of the powers that be.

Right on!

I actually prefer badnarik, I really like Ron but badnarik is my kinda extreme :D

Ron is the best choice in this circumstance. When I fight to sell him, I fight not for him, but for me, for my liberty.

johngr
11-10-2007, 05:27 AM
not necessarily.. why, then was there not this kind of huge groundswell around Michael Badnarik? Not to take anything away from Michael, but - there is definately something different this time 'round..

Ron Paul would be an obscure gold bug if it weren't for the aftermath of and reaction to terrorism and police state climate in the US. Vietniraq (and the possiblity of Vietniran) helps as well.

Mortikhi
11-10-2007, 05:52 AM
I'm promoting Ron Paul to get rid of the income tax and social security.

I've harped for years about how I would let the government keep all the money I've had stolen from me for SS if they would just let me opt out of the system.

When I heard Ron Paul basically say the same thing, I was sold.

USAFCapt
11-10-2007, 06:01 AM
Both. He's not corrupt AND he knows that Social Security is a ripoff.

olehounddog
11-10-2007, 06:16 AM
first you hear the message, then you do some research on the man, HOLY COW!!!!

jrich4rpaul
11-10-2007, 06:36 AM
This guy is rediculous. So are we supposed to have signs and bumper stickers that say "LIBERTY" rather than "RON PAUL 2008"? That won't do anything for anybody.

Ron Paul is how we can achieve liberty, because he has the best chance of bringing it to us. I agree with Paul on every level. I can't run for president, so I'm hoping for Ron Paul to get elected.

This video made no sense to me.

Ron is not my savior, he is simply who I want running the country.

freelance
11-10-2007, 06:52 AM
Support the Message or the Man.
Only Man can send the Message. It is a cyclical feedback loop.
Only certain Men can send certain Messages.
Only at certain intervals in time when current events warrant the occasion, will people in the masses be receptive to a Message they normaly would ignore.


Yeah, THAT'S IT! Thanks for putting words to it.

CelestialRender
11-10-2007, 06:55 AM
I came for liberty, I stayed for RP.

DrNoZone
11-10-2007, 08:44 AM
Both here.

Brutus
11-10-2007, 08:53 AM
Both. Dr. Paul is the best instrument/person at this time to restore Liberty. And he is a decent human being in his own right. How can you not get excited about someone who has lived in the belly of the beast for all of this time and retained his principles?

constituent
11-10-2007, 08:56 AM
liberty... but uhhhh...

that's what Ron Paul consistently advocates (and has advocated).

BillyDkid
11-10-2007, 09:02 AM
How about for the sake of America and my son's future and the future all our children.

Delivered4000
11-10-2007, 09:06 AM
Right message with the right man at the right time at the right place

pcosmar
11-10-2007, 09:08 AM
I guess my reasons are selfish. I want Freedom. I want my Rights back.
I believe, from what I have seen of his writings and his record, that Ron Paul is the best hope for that happening.
I see no hope (and worse) elsewhere.

rfbz
11-10-2007, 09:15 AM
Okay this guy is over thinking it just a bit much. Nobody thinks Ron Paul is jesus.

sunghoko
11-10-2007, 09:19 AM
Both. Ron Paul has said they aren't so much attracted to me than the message of freedom.
How can you not like a humble candidate like Ron?

However if a sleazebag had the same message (humble foreign policy....) I would question whether he would carry out the things he promises. With ron paul track record and his integrity, there's no question.

traviskicks
11-10-2007, 02:44 PM
Ron Paul is not Jesus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Sf_rciBSxk)

Questions?
Comments?
Flames?

Is this about liberty or Ron Paul? For me, it's about liberty, how about you?

we should put the message over the man, we should remember this is not about Ron Paul winning the presidency, it is about changing the minds of the American public about the role of government. That is the goal, along with inspiring a new generation of liberty loving activists to continue this change down the road.

Goldwater Conservative
11-10-2007, 02:53 PM
Liberty, but the man's honesty and integrity make him worth supporting as well.

terlinguatx
11-10-2007, 02:54 PM
Both! His message is what we respond to, and Paul's credibility and integrity is what makes us believe it.