Paul’s libertarian zeal draws in younger voters

[sailingaway]

http://c.o0bg.com/rf/image_960w/Boston/2011-2020/2012/01/07/BostonGlobe.com/National/Images/07paul.jpg

Decent article even if they are calling him 'l' word names again...

http://bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2012/01/07/paul-libertarian-zeal-draws-younger-voters/JBzYmAjpmXwz4HgVI0XYNM/story.html

[heavenlyboy34]

what's so bad about the "l word"?

[sailingaway]

what's so bad about the "l word"?

they are trying to pretend he isn't conservative or GOP and that 'real' conservatives should follow a different candidate. That he gets second biggest share of the evangelical vote after Santorum is something they firmly ignore.

[joshnorris14]

I've never met anyone who associates any negative connotation to the word Libertarian. And they should use it, it is the closest description of Ron's political philosophy.

[sailingaway]

LOTS of Gop have negative feelings particularly when you capitalize it, which refers to the party. And Ron had his philosophy before the Libertarian party existed. It was paleoconservative at one point.

[heavenlyboy34]

they are trying to pretend he isn't conservative or GOP and that 'real' conservatives should follow a different candidate. That he gets second biggest share of the evangelical vote after Santorum is something they firmly ignore.
Regan said that libertarianism is the heart of conservatism. ;)

[joshnorris14]

LOTS of Gop have negative feelings particularly when you capitalize it, which refers to the party. And Ron had his philosophy before the Libertarian party existed. It was paleoconservative at one point.

Ummm... Paleoconservative wasn't even a term until the 1980's. Ron Paul WAS a "libertarian" before the Libertarian party. Unless you don't think the Austrian School and the other individuals who influenced him called themselves "libertarians".

[heavenlyboy34]

LOTS of Gop have negative feelings particularly when you capitalize it, which refers to the party. And Ron had his philosophy before the Libertarian party existed. It was paleoconservative at one point.
IIRC, it was a libertarian attempt to join forces with the paleoconservative movement to make libertarianism more "mainstream". Too bad the local LPs are much more "libertarian" oriented than the national LP (from my experience and from the emails the LP sends me periodically).

[sailingaway]

Ummm... Paleoconservative wasn't even a term until the 1980's. Ron Paul WAS a "libertarian" before the Libertarian party. Unless you don't think the Austrian School and the other individuals who influenced him called themselves "libertarians".

paleoconservatism didn't NEED to be a term until there were neoconservatives.

[sailingaway]

Ummm... Paleoconservative wasn't even a term until the 1980's. Ron Paul WAS a "libertarian" before the Libertarian party. Unless you don't think the Austrian School and the other individuals who influenced him called themselves "libertarians".

I don't really care about labels at all. I do care that the media is pretending there are three different primaries going on, establishment conservative and libertarian by which they try to marginalize Ron from getting conservative votes.

[joshnorris14]

paleoconservatism didn't NEED to be a term until there were neoconservatives.

Lol I guess you can rewrite history books if you want to.

[sailingaway]

I don't really care about the labels except how they are used against Ron, as I said. There are MANY different descriptions of what libertarianism means. Some say you CAN'T be unless you believe in 'abortion rights' which would let Ron out. I don't care. My point is that when media uses that term, they do it to marginalize him with Republicans.

[Carehn]

We all should really disregard the Libertarians. I heard they have been planning to take over the government in order to leave us all alone. Sick in its nature these libertarians. Who would tell me what to eat, think, or do when they take power only not to use it?

[Carehn]

I don't really care about the labels except how they are used against Ron, as I said. There are MANY different descriptions of what libertarianism means. Some say you CAN'T be unless you believe in 'abortion rights' which would let Ron out. I don't care. My point is that when media uses that term, they do it to marginalize him with Republicans.

Well, this for one is true. But it could come back to bite them in the ass if people find out what it really means.

[joshnorris14]

I don't really care about the labels except how they are used against Ron, as I said. There are MANY different descriptions of what libertarianism means. Some say you CAN'T be unless you believe in 'abortion rights' which would let Ron out. I don't care. My point is that when media uses that term, they do it to marginalize him with Republicans.

They aren't trying to marginalize him. They are being truthful. Students don't attract to Ron Paul because he is a Conservative, they do it because he is a Libertarian. I am a student, and I know tons more that support Ron Paul... None of them call themselves or Ron Paul a Conservative.

Do you advocate the media distort the truth and report that students are attracted to his Conservative views even though that isn't the case?

[joshnorris14]

This is a quote from a student in the article:

“They learn about it through Ron Paul. It’s the gateway to constitutional values and libertarianism.’’

Do you really think the media is "misleading" in this case?

[sailingaway]

I think they chose that term knowing most voters are over 40 and knowing it is a negative with large swaths of that population, based on how it has been spun. They directed it to their reading population not to students.

[Boss]

this is a pretty compelling article

[Xenophage]

To call yourself a 'libertarian' is to reject the idea that politics boils down into the categories of left, right, and the ambiguous middle. Libertarians have a principled position that doesn't fit neatly within that political spectrum, as it is defined today.

Liberals like radical change. The liberals are the revolutionaries. In the 1700's the liberals were the advocates for democracy and individual rights. Today liberals are socialists. Conservatives care more about preserving traditions. The word has always meant to imply someone who doesn't like to rock the boat. The conservatives of the 1700's were the monarchists. Today it has come to mean someone who is against the liberals.

To be a libertarian is to be something much more specific: Libertarians believe in liberty. We are the classical liberals of the 1700's, who became the Old Right of the late 19th and early 20th century, and were eventually found without a political home by the middle of the 20th century. Libertarians do not seek to impose their religious or social moral values upon society, except for one underlying creed: Thou shalt not commit the initiation of coercive force. Libertarians are traditionally very liberal and progressive in their mindset, because we tend to be secular, and we tend to like science and technology, and we tend to entertain non-traditional ideas about the future of human societies. Libertarians, like Socrates, question tradition at its very core.

But libertarians are free marketers. We believe in the inalienable rights of mankind and capitalism as a force for good. We don't believe in welfare programs, redistribution of wealth, or stifling regulations. We tend to like Ludwig von Mises. So we aren't liberals in the modern sense of the term, because we're absolutely opposed to any form of socialism.

I like being a libertarian. I'm proud of it, and I recognize that Ron Paul may not be exactly the same type of libertarian that I am, but he's still a libertarian. Like him, I have a fundamental optimism regarding the future of liberty. Our ideas will win, because they are too powerful.

[sailingaway]

I don't have a problem with the word. I consider myself libertarian leaning. I considered myself libertarian until a bunch of libertarians told me I had to believe their mutually exclusive beliefs to be libertarian, something which in itself doesn't seem very libertarian to me. I simply don't care about the label. I believe what I believe, whatever it is called.

However, a lot of Republicans think libertarian equates to libertine.

[joshnorris14]

I don't have a problem with the word. I consider myself libertarian leaning. I considered myself libertarian until a bunch of libertarians told me I had to believe their mutually exclusive beliefs to be libertarian, something which in itself doesn't seem very libertarian to me. I simply don't care about the label. I believe what I believe, whatever it is called.

I've been told by some Libertarians that I can not call myself one because I'm also an anarchist. It's ridiculous. Libertarianism is a political philosophy that has many subsects.

[Nate]

I don't have a problem with the word. I consider myself libertarian leaning. I considered myself libertarian until a bunch of libertarians told me I had to believe their mutually exclusive beliefs to be libertarian, something which in itself doesn't seem very libertarian to me. I simply don't care about the label. I believe what I believe, whatever it is called.

Some like to attempt to make it a purist doctrine but as long as you advocate the use of libertarian ie non-coercive MEANS for whatever ends you desire then you are in practice if not in name a libertarian. That's all I need to hear from anybody to consider them at least an ally. Anyone who does not advocate authoritarian means for their political goals is someone I can at least have a civilized relationship with.

"As the means, so the end." ~Mohandas K Gandhi

[GunnyFreedom]

I've never met anyone who associates any negative connotation to the word Libertarian. And they should use it, it is the closest description of Ron's political philosophy.

The vast majority of the Republican voters I meet, do associate a deeply negative connotation with the word libertarian.

ETA -- I'm not saying that they aren't stupid, it just is what it is.