soviet union

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Would we have had free trade with the Soviet Union if Ron Paul was in office in place of Reagan?

That would be... interesting lol imagine if the SU were our allies

[pcosmar]

It was capitalism that killed the bear.
Not weapons.

[sparebulb]

Speaking of the Bear, did I hear it correctly that Russia has a flat tax and is backing its currency with precious metals?

[JosephTheLibertarian]

It was capitalism that killed the bear.
Not weapons.

it was a silent revolution that killed it. It could have kept going

[Harald]

I believe if there were free trade between Soviet Union and the west, USSR would have transformed itself much sooner and without as much pain.

Glastnost (i.e allowing Freedom of Press to a degree under Gorbachev) allowed people discover how much better life is in the west. After that it all went downhill.

You can only maintain socialism if people are denied a chance to see what they are missing. Free trade would have allowed to discover that much much sooner.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

I believe if there were free trade between Soviet Union and the west, USSR would have transformed itself much sooner and without as much pain.

Glastnost (i.e allowing Freedom of Press to a degree under Gorbachev) allowed people discover how much better life is in the west. After that it all went downhill.

You can only maintain socialism if people are denied a chance to see what they are missing. Free trade would have allowed to discover that much much sooner.

Yeah, no reason to not trade with communist countries

[Give me liberty]

it was a silent revolution that killed it. It could have kept going

a silent revolution? nope like pcosmar said
it was capitalism thatkilled of the soviet union.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

a silent revolution? nope like pcosmar said
it was capitalism thatkilled of the soviet union.

it was political strife that killed it. there was no economic fall out. All member states signed the Alma-Ata Protocol (except Georgia) and the CIS came out of it. The August Coup discouraged Gorbachev

It was actually a very silent revolution

Now it's like cronyism. In fact, I don't think the SU has ever been a communist country, to me it resembled state socialism :p

[pcosmar]

It was blue jeans and rock&roll. Cheese burgers an indoor plumbing.
Information led to ideas. Ideas lead to freedom.
They got a taste, but have a long way to go.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

It was blue jeans and rock&roll. Cheese burgers an indoor plumbing.
Information led to ideas. Ideas lead to freedom.
They got a taste, but have a long way to go.

the hardcore Marxists lost their power and the moderates didn't want it anymore....

[truthbetold]

My wife is Russian and I have lived in Russia about 20% of the time the last 5 years.

It was primarily economic , we bankrupted them in the arms race.
Now we are being bankrupted by pursuing Iraq and Russia and China are pusing some buttons to devalue the dollar.

Russians used to like Americans. In the last 2 years they no longer do. They no longer want to come here. They used to say we strong but humble. Now they say we are big world bullies and need to be taken down a couple notches. Countries all around the world are joining in and circling . Our puppet governments are falling into chaos. And, the dictatorships we supported overseas will be emposed here soon. IF we don't get more people involved.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

My wife is Russian and I have lived in Russia about 20% of the time the last 5 years.

It was primarily economic , we bankrupted them in the arms race.
Now we are being bankrupted by pursuing Iraq and Russia and China are pusing some buttons to devalue the dollar.

Russians used to like Americans. In the last 2 years they no longer do. They no longer want to come here. They used to say we strong but humble. Now they say we are big world bullies and need to be taken down a couple notches. Countries all around the world are joining in and circling . Our puppet governments are falling into chaos. And, the dictatorships we supported overseas will be emposed here soon. IF we don't get more people involved.

they had economic problems (as do we) but the dissolution was not of economic means.

[beerista]

Would we have had free trade with the Soviet Union if Ron Paul was in office in place of Reagan?

That would be... interesting lol imagine if the SU were our allies

Only a few decades that they weren't our allies, wasn't it?

[Ginobili]

My wife is Russian and I have lived in Russia about 20% of the time the last 5 years.

It was primarily economic , we bankrupted them in the arms race.
Now we are being bankrupted by pursuing Iraq and Russia and China are pusing some buttons to devalue the dollar.

Russians used to like Americans. In the last 2 years they no longer do. They no longer want to come here. They used to say we strong but humble. Now they say we are big world bullies and need to be taken down a couple notches. Countries all around the world are joining in and circling . Our puppet governments are falling into chaos. And, the dictatorships we supported overseas will be emposed here soon. IF we don't get more people involved.


I can see the Russians thinking that. I only wish the rest of the world knew it was our gov't and just a crap load of apathetic people who have have been brainwashed that is awful, not Americans in general. MOST (there are alot who aren't) americans are pretty moral and would normally find what happens wrong. But we have become some use to such insane acts that the media basically built barbwire around our heart and poured iron down our souls to keep us obedient.
In a sense, almost how the U.S.S.R. had their people silenced by violence and threats.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Only a few decades that they weren't our allies, wasn't it?

Of mostly our doing. We got hysterical over..what? bad economic policy? lol.

LET US FIGHT THE SPREAD OF BAD ECONOMIC POLICY! ha ha ha!

Communism is a mentality as well yes but it is still bad economics. A government taking control of everything? That would be their problem! Their ends are supposedly a "classless, stateless society"

We all know that will never happen.

I just sort of believe that we created our own hysteria in a similar way to this whole "War on Terror" bit. It's very and just extremely similar to me. I do think that many of these communist leaders were bad yes but is it our job to look after the interests of their citizens? Or ours? That's debatable. I just don't think there had to be a cold war.

[noxagol]

I often wondered that myself, what was the problem with the Soviet Union? Why did we feel it necessary to enter into a 40 year long cold war with them?

[lucius]

The bear was our very useful brethren...rubes then, rubes now?

[johngr]

President Veto sure as hell wouldn't have subsidized them!

[Bossobass]

All governments rise and fall by the power of the Central Bamks...period.

Communism, Dictatorship, Democracy (which is a dictatorship with elections) or Constitutional Republic...it makes no matter.

Some excerpts from a couple of 1990ish articles on the collapse of the USSR:
_________________________

Deficit spending - government spending more money than it was acquiring in revenue - was a disaster for the Soviet economy. To make up for the insufficient tax revenues the government continued to print more money, increasing inflation. People were putting the money they could not spend into state savings banks - a bad place for money during inflation and a waste in that it was money not being invested in worthy enterprises.

Monetary policy was of little concern to Gorbachev and his advisors. New bureaucracies were created to oversee planning and investing at a more local level.

The Soviet Union, virtually out of money, was forced to stop payments from its Central Bank accounts today after the Russian republic, led by President Boris N. Yeltsin, struck another crippling blow to the central Government of President Mikhail S. Gorbachev by refusing to authorize another round of deficit spending.

The fiscal crisis reached a breaking point over an emergency appropriation, sought by Mr. Gorbachev, that would have authorized a 92 billion ruble deficit to carry the Soviet Government through to the end of the year.

But the Russian government is adamently refusing to set off inflation with more freshly minted rubles at a time when prices are already spinning out of control. The Russian government, by far the wealthiest of the republics, has cut off financing to about 80 central Government ministries and has taken control of the money supply, and the Soviet Union's most important commodities, including oil, gold and diamonds.

Mr. Yeltsin, whose republic controls most of the Soviet Union's resources and holds a commanding position here in the capital, has not been reluctant to use his advantages. A commentator on Vesti, the Russian television news, today seemed to echo the Russian government's thinking when he said, "If the Soviet Government cannot pay, then it would be logical to hand over its property to those who can."
____________________________________

They brainwash the people into thinking that their's is the greatest country on Earth with the greatest system on Earth, but the truth is they have yhe absolute power to bring any system to it's knees because, to quote Rothschild: "Give me control of a country's currency, and I care not who makes it's laws."

Bosso

[timosman]

Glastnost (i.e allowing Freedom of Press to a degree under Gorbachev) allowed people discover how much better life is in the west. After that it all went downhill.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYT4ZhJ-oRU

[BV2]

Governments are like gods, yes? Powerful in relation the the number of their adherents. People stop believing, or begin believing in something else... and there you have it. Particularly true of govs that play fiat currency games.

[cindy25]

It was capitalism that killed the bear.
Not weapons.

Reagan bankrupted them by upping military spending they could not afford, plus their stupid war in Afghanistan