Why was Rand so mad last night?

[plandr]

At the concession speech Rand was in th bg fuming...

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

tube?

[Mini-Me]

He's younger than Ron and has less patience for BS, so my first guess would be that he's outraged about the media's Santorum push and the effect it had on the results. He had personally told a crowd the day before that Ron Paul would be taking first in Iowa, so he may have been kicking himself for overextending his "promise" a bit. That's just a guess though.

[Christopher_RC]

What concession speech?

[Liberty Shark]

Not sure. However if I were to guess it would probably be something related to probably expecting to win first, especially considering the entrance polls shown on several networks where it appeared as though Dr. Paul was gonna get 1st. Also, if I was him, I would probably be furious at several people in the media, particularly the "conservative"(neocon) media, such as Limbaugh, Levin, Hannity, O'Reilly, etc. If the media coverage was at least somewhat based on reality and facts, I bet the 21% would have been about 27%. But that's just my guess.

[unknown]

Cause we lost due to BS.

[Mini-Me]

What concession speech?

He probably means "condolence speech," which is technically what Ron Paul's speech was called, given he didn't place first. I considered it a bit of a victory speech myself though, because our placement gave us a foothold in the mind of ordinary voters. :)

[Paulite]

Pissed at the campaign for not challenging the results. I believe various internal polling showed ron had this in the bag. He basically felt robbed

[Mini-Me]

Pissed at the campaign for not challenging the results. I believe various internal polling showed ron had this in the bag. He basically felt robbed

I doubt that. Rand is a shrewd guy; he would understand the futility of challenging the results of the first primary. It would look like sour grapes and cost us 49 other states.

[jersdream]

Rand was pissed at how Santorum the rat could have actually done so well.

I still can't get past how all the early entrance polling showed us leading and how all the early returns showed us leading. Don't get why and how the tide changed.

[zweezey]

More disappointment than anger. I think he was aiming for a top 2 finish. We all were really. This santorum surge caught many people by surprise./

[libertythor]

Rand was pissed at how Santorum the rat could have actually done so well.

I still can't get past how all the early entrance polling showed us leading and how all the early returns showed us leading. Don't get why and how the tide changed.

Some people may have changed their minds during the caucus speeches. We have no idea what was being said in every single precinct. Latecoming supporters in the polls are probably more likely to be "soft support".

[LiveForHonortune]

Because it brings back old memories when the establishment GOP and media tried to stop Rand in Kentucky during his race to become senator.
They tried something similar if I recall but Rand won anyway.
He thought it would be the same but apparently most Iowans have a Kentucky Fried Brain after spending so many hours in front of the idiot box with Communist News Network and faux news running.

[Napolitanic Wars]

I noticed Rand too, but he had the same look at the NH speech in 2008:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mABLucNWzZA&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PLCADA162A6DA5C48F

The difference was he was hidden behind Ron's head most of the time. Rand has always been very serious. It makes him look less like a slimy politician.

[akalucas]

RCP average had Paul at 21 and we were all expecting to outperform by a little just like in 2008 but the rcp average had it spot on. Also, from the lack of people reporting about their speeches in Iowa it seems we didn't do so well in that area. Seems like a lot of places had no one representing Ron Paul. kind of expected that since the young people are not so good at public speaking or at least lack the confidence for the most part. We really need to bring the older folks. There is no way around it. The message needs to be more digestible for them or we will not make it.

[John F Kennedy III]

I don't understand how so many people think the results were legitimate...

[BigByrd47119]

I noticed Rand too, but he had the same look at the NH speech in 2008:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mABLucNWzZA&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PLCADA162A6DA5C48F

The difference was he was hidden behind Ron's head most of the time. Rand has always been very serious. It makes him look less like a slimy politician.

Agreed. That aside, he isn't even "there." Look at him, he isn't focused on the speech or the people in the crowd, he is deep in thought. How interesting and novel, a politician that thinks.

[Allan Bartlett]

Some neo cons were posting on my Facebook wall last night that Rand didn't clap when Ron mentioned pulling the troops out of Afghanistan. If they only knew that Rand is just like his old man on foreign policy.

[sorianofan]

Rand thought it was bull that the Ron Paul grassroots can work their butts off for 6 months and some douche bag can be propelled out of nowhere from the media to rob Ron Paul a victory.


But I don't blame the media, I blame the people.

[gerryb]

I don't understand how so many people think the results were legitimate...

I was there.

I don't understand how some folks can think the results AREN'T legitimate.

[nc4rp]

like i always say, "OVERVOTE THE HACK" - in other words, the more they hack the vote the more legitimate votes we need to get so after they rape the vote talleys, WE STILL HAVE MORE THAN ENOUGH TO WIN.

they cant win no matter how bad they hack the vote if we have an over-abundance of votes.

[Mini-Me]

like i always say, "OVERVOTE THE HACK" - in other words, the more they hack the vote the more legitimate votes we need to get so after they rape the vote talleys, WE STILL HAVE MORE THAN ENOUGH TO WIN.

they cant win no matter how bad they hack the vote if we have an over-abundance of votes.

Don't tempt them to update the Diebold software to count Ron Paul votes on a logarithmic basis, relative to the number actually cast...

[Marky]

I was there.

I don't understand how some folks can think the results AREN'T legitimate.

Explain.

[gerryb]

Explain.

Ballots are cast, or hands are raised.

If ballots were used, they are hand cast and hand counted with reps from each campaign watching, then results reported to the state (and the organized campaigns have their folks report up to them too, so they can verify no human error occurred over the phone/record keeping).

If hands were used, hands are counted, then results reported to the state.

It's impossible to cheat and a ridiculous claim...

[fj45lvr]

is it a fact that santorum never had more than 100 people show up to any of his Iowa appearances?? I think it is simply miraculous how he had so many votes without much support until yesterday....

[Mini-Me]

Ballots are cast, or hands are raised.

If ballots were used, they are counted with reps from each campaign watching, then results reported to the state (and the organized campaigns have their folks report up too, so they can verify no human error occurred over the phone/record keeping).

If hands were used, hands are counted, then results reported to the state.

It's impossible to cheat and a ridiculous claim...

Serious question: Are there no Diebold [or other voting] machines in Iowa and/or at caucuses? My state is a primary state (so I've never been to a caucus), but I could have sworn I voted into a machine last time.

[gerryb]

Serious question: Are there no Diebold [or other voting] machines in Iowa and/or at caucuses?

Correct(as far as I know, don't want to say an absolute).

But there's no need, each caucus is generally not very large and ballots are counted immediately after being cast.

[TheTyke]

At each precinct caucus, the ballots were publicly distributed, collected, and counted with observers from the campaigns allowed. After the count is established, it is phoned in and totaled with other precincts in the county. It's about as accurate transparent a system of voting as can possibly be devised.

Watching the vote is good, and competent campaigns will take care of it. But it's really not helpful to our image to suspect cheating any time the results aren't what we want. In Kentucky, machines counted our votes and Rand was running against the Secretary of State in charge of the election. Some people on the forums insisted "THEY wouldn't let us win...." But we did.

[LibertyEagle]

Personally, I think it's amazing that Paul even came in 3rd considering all the 24/7 lies the media was telling for the last couple of weeks. Not to mention what the other candidates were saying. It was unbelievable. I've never seen anything like it in my entire life.

That's not to say that I'm not disappointed, because I am. But, it ain't over yet.

[MaxPower]

I don't think there was any kind of ballot-rigging in the Iowa polls. I do believe the story that the Iowa Republican higher-ups worked to convince undecided voters and people who had come supporting Bachmann, Gingrich or Perry to go for Romney or Santorum in order to avoid the "embarrassment" of having Ron Paul win their state, however.

[LibertyEagle]

//

[nobody's_hero]

Rand was mad for the same reason I am mad.

Some of us would actually like to experience liberty before we die, and are growing impatient.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

Rand was mad for the same reason I am mad.

Some of us would actually like to experience liberty before we die, and are growing impatient.
We are doing our best, but how are we supposed to get rid of tyranny within the law when tyranny makes the law? We make fun of places like North Korea where you can only vote for one person.

[angelatc]

Agreed. That aside, he isn't even "there." Look at him, he isn't focused on the speech or the people in the crowd, he is deep in thought. How interesting and novel, a politician that thinks.

My husband said the same thing - that he wasn't mad, he was thinking.

[raystone]

He sounded under the weather on Hannity that day. He may have just looked pissed cause he needed to hawk a lugie.

[eleganz]

My husband said the same thing - that he wasn't mad, he was thinking.

Probably mentally writing his NH speech a week in advance :)

[SisCyn]

This is what I was thinking, too. There's been a nasty virus going around (I am an IL resident, 1 mile across the river from Iowa). I purposely avoided trying to shake Ron's hand or get an autograph, etc. when I attended a town hall meeting because I was full of it, too. This thing takes nearly a month to totally clear. Anyway, noticed that Rand was coughing during applause on atleast 2 occasions during the condolence speech. It's a bummer trying to restrain a cough, waiting for a time when it won't disrupt a speech.

[No Free Beer]

He probably means "condolence speech," which is technically what Ron Paul's speech was called, given he didn't place first. I considered it a bit of a victory speech myself though, because our placement gave us a foothold in the mind of ordinary voters. :)

Well...

Well, Rush and Dick Morris said Ron is "done".

[AlexAmore]

Well...

Well, Rush and Dick Morris said Ron is "done".

Time to pack it up gentlemen, it was a good run. As an old libertarian saying goes "See you in the FEMA camps".
;)

[Mini-Me]

Well...

Well, Rush and Dick Morris said Ron is "done".

I wish they'd bet their careers on it.

[dannno]

Ron is smarter than Rand and knows exactly what is going on. Rand seems to be learning. Whatever Ron is doing he is playing his cards the best he can.

[Krugerrand]

Ron is smarter than Rand and knows exactly what is going on. Rand seems to be learning. Whatever Ron is doing he is playing his cards the best he can.

I have been amazed in watching both the 2008 and the 2012 campaign just how politically savvy Ron Paul is.

He played every card right in 2008. (I don't think he ever had a chance then.) He has a narrow chance this go around ... and, so far, has made every move brilliantly.

[rprprs]

Personally, I think it's amazing that Paul even came in 3rd considering all the 24/7 lies the media was telling for the last couple of weeks. Not to mention what the other candidates were saying. It was unbelievable. I've never seen anything like it in my entire life.

That's not to say that I'm not disappointed, because I am. But, it ain't over yet.
There you go again, making sense.

Ron was subjected to charges of racism, anti-semitism, homophobia. His foreign policy was misrepresented to paint him as a friend of terrorists. His libertarianism was portrayed as cold and callous, representative of a compassionless dog-eat-dog world. The GOP was told he was not a true Republican. Americans at large were told he was extreme and ultimately unelectable. The people of Iowa, specifically, were told point-blank that voting for Ron would serve only to discredit their cherished first-in-the-nation status. This, and more, was spewed round-the-clock from every source even remotely resembling the mainstream media.

You've never seen anything like it in your life because there never has been anything like it, not only in your life, but EVER.

[Spikender]

There you go again, making sense.

Ron was subjected to charges of racism, anti-semitism, homophobia. His foreign policy was misrepresented to paint him as a friend of terrorists. His libertarianim was portrayed as cold and callous, representative of a compassionless dog-eat-dog world. The GOP was told he was not a true Republican. Americans at large were told he was extreme and ultimately unectable. Ihe people of Iowa, specifically, were told point-blank that voting for Ron would serve only to discredit their cherished first-in-the-nation status. This, and more, was spewed round-the-clock from every source even remotely resembling the mainsream media.

You've never seen anything like it in your life because there never has been anything like it, not only in your life, but EVER.

You know, looking at it that way, and taking into consideration that Ron Paul has been hammered by the media 24/7 with any sort of ammunition they can snatch up, Ron Paul has performed superbly. The other candidates got a small share of flak for sure, but they are all part of the establishment, so they are mostly safe. Ron, on the other hand, still has much more of this storm to weather before he enters the calm winds of the eye... after that, it's back into the storm with Obama. :D

[Bossobass]

I don't understand how so many people think the results were legitimate...

No kiddin'.

It's like they pass out the ether here on election night.

Bosso

[brushfire]

Romney - 7 delegates
Santorum - 7 delegates
Paul - 7 delegates

So who walked away with IA?

Whats nice too is that this is just yet another opportunity where the media propped up the "wrong guy".
Cain
Bachmann
Perry
Cain again
Newt
Santorum
...and soon to be Huntsman

Even my 3 year old son gets tired of playing "Red light, Green light", after so long. I think the media is depleting their influence - all we need to do is expose the game, and in such a way, to invoke people's sense of self preservation. Was it Tom who said, "How many times are these people going to keep buying the same magic beans?".

I think the timing is just right, and I'm VERY happy with this election cycle, thus far... So weep, drink, punch a door, whatever you need to do in order to get over whatever missed expectation you had over IA, and then get back on the horse. NH will be here before we know it.

[randomname]

There you go again, making sense.

Ron was subjected to charges of racism, anti-semitism, homophobia. His foreign policy was misrepresented to paint him as a friend of terrorists. His libertarianim was portrayed as cold and callous, representative of a compassionless dog-eat-dog world. The GOP was told he was not a true Republican. Americans at large were told he was extreme and ultimately unelectable. Ihe people of Iowa, specifically, were told point-blank that voting for Ron would serve only to discredit their cherished first-in-the-nation status. This, and more, was spewed round-the-clock from every source even remotely resembling the mainsream media.

You've never seen anything like it in your life because there never has been anything like it, not only in your life, but EVER.

Ha, and that's only the start of it. That list will grow larger by end of next week. I wish someone would really sum up all of the BS the media has been pulling to stop Ron's momentum and call them out on it, like the Jon Stewart did with the Iowa Straw Poll.

[Spikender]

Ha, and that's only the start of it. That list will grow larger by end of next week. I wish someone would really sum up all of the BS the media has been pulling to stop Ron's momentum and call them out on it, like the Jon Stewart did with the Iowa Straw Poll.

It would be good if someone could sum it all up... but there's a LOT of crap that they've pulled, so we're likely looking at one big damn summary...

[Brett85]

Probably because he knows that getting 3rd was a huge disappointment.

[Mini-Me]

There you go again, making sense.

Ron was subjected to charges of racism, anti-semitism, homophobia. His foreign policy was misrepresented to paint him as a friend of terrorists. His libertarianism was portrayed as cold and callous, representative of a compassionless dog-eat-dog world. The GOP was told he was not a true Republican. Americans at large were told he was extreme and ultimately unelectable. The people of Iowa, specifically, were told point-blank that voting for Ron would serve only to discredit their cherished first-in-the-nation status. This, and more, was spewed round-the-clock from every source even remotely resembling the mainsream media.

You've never seen anything like it in your life because there never has been anything like it, not only in your life, but EVER.

This reminds me that we are truly making history. This is only an election on the surface...behind the scenes, it's an outright war between an evil empire (an entrenched establishment bent on tyranny) and a small band of rebels, who have been character assassinated to hell and back.

[TheDriver]

It appeared to me that Rand was sick, as he kept coughing and that isn't normal.

[TheTyke]

No kiddin'.

It's like they pass out the ether here on election night.

Bosso

We have people who were there saying the process was legitimate. We have the campaign assuring us it was above board. We have reason, facts and one of the best processes available.

I guess some people are always looking for conspiracies. I encounter that a lot.... people are less interested in real truth than they are justifying the conclusions they already jumped to. That mentality and image doesn't win elections. People are free to believe whatever they want, but it sure doesn't help people take us seriously.

[JohnGalt23g]

I don't understand how so many people think the results were legitimate...

Because to do otherwise is loserspeak.

Jesus Christ, we finished third in the Iowa caucuses, besting a former Speaker of the House and a sitting Governor of Texas. Tell me, should Newt and Perry be whining about how the results weren't legitimate?

Seriously?

Did you think that Romney's people from four years ago were just going to go away? Did you think that the high-profile endorsements by evangelical Christians wasn't going to give Santorum a boost? Did you think we were the only ones playing hard there?

We did well, certainly well enough to be considered top-tier for a while. They just happened to do a little bit better. Deal with it.

[moostraks]

This reminds me that we are truly making history. This is only an election on the surface...behind the scenes, it's an outright war between an evil empire (an entrenched establishment bent on tyranny) and a small band of rebels, who have been character assassinated to hell and back.

My question is like most 'facts' in history, will we be the ones to write it? Who will know what truly went on and who will believe what lengths both sides went to in order to change the course we are on (or stay it in the case of the opposition)? A person from the North and a peron from the South hold two seperate views on the civil war and now descendants argue about things they had no direct experience in so it all becomes conjecture. I reckon this will be the same sort of thing, and ponder the eventual outcome.

[PastaRocket848]

there are a lot of folks out there who see anything that they don't agree with, or that doesn't make sense to them, and scream "conspiracy!" unfortunately our campaign seems to attract quite a few of them. i guess it's the fed position. either way, it's destructive as hell, and pretty much single-handedly earned us the "fringe kook" label in 2008. maybe one day they'll grow up and realize that they don't know anything that anyone else doesn't. certainly they will, most do, as there aren't very many 60 year old conspiracy theorists. it's mainly 18-25 males.

we could certainly do without them.

[JohnGalt23g]

Well...

Well, Rush and Dick Morris said Ron is "done".

Rush Limbaugh has an audience he has to placate.

Dick Morris sucks Tardasil off the toes of street-walking prostitutes.

(Man, I can't believe Michele Bachmann dropped out... what am I going to do with all these Tardasil jokes I had stored up for use through SC?)

[G-Wohl]

Nobody in the media is even talking about Iowa anymore. Anybody who does engage in such dialog anymore is wasting time.

[Wolfgang Bohringer]

Ballots are cast, or hands are raised.

If ballots were used, they are hand cast and hand counted with reps from each campaign watching, then results reported to the state (and the organized campaigns have their folks report up to them too, so they can verify no human error occurred over the phone/record keeping).

If hands were used, hands are counted, then results reported to the state.

It's impossible to cheat and a ridiculous claim...

This is why the media and the establishment were scared shit-less that Ron might win. It is really hard to cheat when all of the votes are hand counted immediately. As long as there are Ron Paul supporters watching each precinct's vote and auditing the transmitting and calculating, its very difficult, but not impossible. The biggest risk is not having alert Ron Paul supporters in each precinct or not having alert and knowledgeable RP supporters at the locations watching the reporting of the numbers and accumulations.

I heard one report from a caller to Bev Harris on the radio yesterday where the caller said he was from across the river in Illinois but attended at a location in Scott County where there were 2 (or maybe more) precincts meeting. He told a story about the lights going out for 30 seconds at the same moment that votes were being collected. So, they could do things like that but its hard to see how they could get thousands of votes that way, since Iowa's precincts are all pretty small.

If machines are used there is absolutely no hope, because there's no possible way to audit the results. That's why Ron's not winning Iowa was so disappointing and the elite was so scared--it's really hard to cheat when the votes are hand counted and audited.

[Wolfgang Bohringer]

Rush Limbaugh has an audience he has to placate.

Dick Morris sucks Tardasil off the toes of street-walking prostitutes.

(Man, I can't believe Michele Bachmann dropped out... what am I going to do with all these Tardasil jokes I had stored up for use through SC?)

And Rush Limbaugh is an opiate junkie. And Bill O'Reilly is a creepy sexual harraser. And Bill Bennett is a slot machine jockey. In what nations of the earth do the piously whipped up evangelicals receive their instructions on whom to vote for from perverts such as prostitute toe sucker Morris? In Persia the voters are told directly by the Mullahs, no cheap intermediaries are required. In Iowa couldn’t those evangelical preachers such as van der Platts just get their own radio and TV shows?

[captain]

Ballots are cast, or hands are raised.

If ballots were used, they are hand cast and hand counted with reps from each campaign watching, then results reported to the state (and the organized campaigns have their folks report up to them too, so they can verify no human error occurred over the phone/record keeping).

If hands were used, hands are counted, then results reported to the state.

It's impossible to cheat and a ridiculous claim...

So the count "goes to the State" with the Governor plainly and openly against Ron Paul. I think votes that were sent in for Santorium were switched with Paul's votes at State level. Just my opinion.

[flightlesskiwi]

You know, looking at it that way, and taking into consideration that Ron Paul has been hammered by the media 24/7 with any sort of ammunition they can snatch up, Ron Paul has performed superbly. The other candidates got a small share of flak for sure, but they are all part of the establishment, so they are mostly safe. Ron, on the other hand, still has much more of this storm to weather before he enters the calm winds of the eye... after that, it's back into the storm with Obama. :D

the story in interwebz alternative media now is RP is connected to Soros.

relentless.

[Krugerrand]

the story in interwebz alternative media now is RP is connected to Soros.

relentless.

Much like Batman is connected to the Joker.

[Spikender]

the story in interwebz alternative media now is RP is connected to Soros.

relentless.

Wow, there's just no words. Wonder what sort of straws their clinging onto to come up with that conclusion. Beck has a better chance of being connected to Soros than Ron Paul.

[pinkmandy]

Personally, I think it's amazing that Paul even came in 3rd considering all the 24/7 lies the media was telling for the last couple of weeks. Not to mention what the other candidates were saying. It was unbelievable. I've never seen anything like it in my entire life.

That's not to say that I'm not disappointed, because I am. But, it ain't over yet.

+ rep

And as low as they went I realize many would have no issue sinking even lower. No morals, people. They answer to the god of ego, money and power. Kudos to the few who try to be objective but the rest are absolute scum who are nothing more than well paid, glorified tabloid tv mouthpieces without an ounce of journalistic integrity in their bodies. My hope is that history treats them as the lepers and sell outs they are.

[ScottishRP fan]

its to my understanding that machines where not used, it was all human, so therefore pretty tough to 'rig'

the film Hacking Democracy covers all the bases

it seems that the american system is pretty corrupt, although i doubt it would be on this occasion

Ron Paul has played it perfectally, he was esentially tied for 1st place with delegates etc so why give the MSM the negitive reaction they need, the traction for their bullshit.

[Len Larson]

Given the tantrum Gingrich was throwing, I suspect some words were exchanged backstage.

[socal]

At the concession speech Rand was in th bg fuming...
In a couple interviews I remember Rand saying he would help his dad in Iowa only if he didn't have to wear a tie. Notice what he was wearing? Maybe that's why he looked so ticked lol.

[specsaregood]

I doubt that. Rand is a shrewd guy; he would understand the futility of challenging the results of the first primary. It would look like sour grapes and cost us 49 other states.

And the GOP would quickly respond by pointing out how stupid challenging the results is since it is a completely non-binding straw poll!

[J. Evins]

He looked to me like he may have been sick. He was reaching up to his mouth like he was covering a cough. I did notice he had a very stern demeanor.

[RonPaul101.com]

Rand realizes how much Ron would have won by under normal, fair play. Two weeks ago Santorum was down where he belongs 5-7% in Iowa in polling. Ron was leading with Romney close behind, but Ron was 100% THE Anti-Romney candidate. It was setting up to be Romney doing well in Romney 2008 counties and Paul taking the place of Huckabee in the center of the state. If you look at the actual results and compare them county by county to 2008, Paul took over MANY Romney counties of 2008, so if not for the false Santorum push that happened intentionally late breaking, unvetted, and media blitzed with only positive spin over a long, cold, holiday weekend where there is nothing else to do but watch the news in Iowa; Paul would have won and it would have been about like this: Paul 40%, Romney 23%, Gingrich 12%, Perry 10%, Santorum 9%, Bachmann 6%.

Given the counties Paul won over Romney, if not for a last minute puppet Santorum, he would have landslid Iowa and it would have likely changed the county's leadership come next year. :mad:

I hope the campaign is building "truth telling ads" to just keep on file for anyone else who can pop up last minute: Huntsman, Chris Christie, Jeb Bush, Trump, etc.,. Once the establishment runs out of empty flavors-of-the-week candidates it "could" drag more in just to push Ron down in a particular state. Have the ads built, so you can run with them with zero notice; its a worth while investment.

[da32130]

Look at the exit polls:
http://www.cnn.com/election/2012/primaries/epolls/ia

Among people who made up their minds in 2011 Paul wins with 31%, mitt 26%, sant 16%. They had to be pretty confident.

Rand was suppose to close the deal in those last couple days in 2012.

Instead, of the people who decided on the day of caucus, paul lost with 8%, mitt 22%, sant 35%.

We lost this in the last two days. The undecided broke heavily away from us. On some level, Rand's job was to ensure the late deciders came our way, but they didn't.

He may feel bad about his own appeal to voters and how well he did his job.

[Peace&Freedom]

There was rigging going on. That's not 'conspiracy' talk, that's from the reports from several parties who spoke to Bev Harris yesterday, or posted to the LRC blog. Harris has herself pointed out that while hand counting is much harder to hack, it is hackable, depending on the post count handling. The differential between the 'entrance'/exit polls and the early results to the final outcome is staggering, and by itself would be enough to be declared fraudulent if we were observing it in a third world country.

To lazily label it as 'loserspeak' to simply note the likelihood of fraud based on the witnesses and experts who have already said so, is the same kind of Pollyanna-loser approach that happened last time. Nothing was challenged in 2008, and how many primaries did Paul go in to win? ZERO. The regime knows if its tricks are not challenged or exposed, it can go right on using them, and so it did. Change won't happen unless the light of truth and critical scrutiny is placed upon the so-called 'transparent process' to ensure that canard is not itself being used to provide cover for the rigging that likely happened.

[pebcak]

I do not believe this one was rigged, and even if it were, the Paul campaign would catch on. We had someone at nearly every precinct to watch the count and to report results straight to the Paul campaign. I was one of them.

[Kevin Smyth]

Wow, there's just no words. Wonder what sort of straws their clinging onto to come up with that conclusion. Beck has a better chance of being connected to Soros than Ron Paul.

Is Glenn Beck spreading the lie that Ron Paul is being funded by Soros?

[gerryb]

There was rigging going on. That's not 'conspiracy' talk, that's from the reports from several parties who spoke to Bev Harris yesterday, or posted to the LRC blog. Harris has herself pointed out that while hand counting is much harder to hack, it is hackable, depending on the post count handling. The differential between the 'entrance'/exit polls and the early results to the final outcome is staggering, and by itself would be enough to be declared fraudulent if we were observing it in a third world country.

To lazily label it as 'loserspeak' to simply note the likelihood of fraud based on the witnesses and experts who have already said so, is the same kind of Pollyanna-loser approach that happened last time. Nothing was challenged in 2008, and how many primaries did Paul go in to win? ZERO. The regime knows if its tricks are not challenged or exposed, it can go right on using them, and so it did. Change won't happen unless the light of truth and critical scrutiny is placed upon the so-called 'transparent process' to ensure that canard is not itself being used to provide cover for the rigging that likely happened.

Why are you even here supporting Ron Paul then? If they can cheat in a room full of dozens or hundreds of Ron Paul caucusers double checking the count is conducted (aka, the chair knows how to count hands) and reported properly, what chance do we have?

It's just not possible to cheat in the Iowa Caucus.

[AngryCanadian]

I was there.

I don't understand how some folks can think the results AREN'T legitimate.

Is easy to fake results, like how can you have Harper for four more years.

[BKom]

Some neo cons were posting on my Facebook wall last night that Rand didn't clap when Ron mentioned pulling the troops out of Afghanistan. If they only knew that Rand is just like his old man on foreign policy.

If anyone thinks Rand is just like good old dad on foreign policy, then they haven't been paying attention when he ran for the senate or since. In fact, he dodged Hannity's question on only one subject, foreign policy.

If you think you know Rand, you don't. He's different on foreign policy, and he's much more comfortable with the religious right.

[wgadget]

I heard Bev Harris on an AJ clip saying that, yes, the ballot-counting IN each precinct is secure. It's what happens after the count gets to the state level where things aren't so sure. She said that what she looks for is the PTB declaring that IF Romney wins NH, the thinking will be: These primaries/caucuses are such a drain to state finances, we should just go ahead and consolidate behind our guy.

I think the biggest story that's gone unreported is that so many people have awakened to the blatant mischief of the media. Those who have caught on are more likely to vote for Ron Paul, imo. But it can be said that ironically people like Herman Cain and Newt Gingrich (in the debates) have helped lead the cause, while Ron just happens to be a victim of the media. Of course, the flavor-of-the-week phenomenon is even more proof of their power to move elections. Ron should run a generic ad against the media distortion if he has the funds.

[BKom]

Look at the exit polls:
http://www.cnn.com/election/2012/primaries/epolls/ia

Among people who made up their minds in 2011 Paul wins with 31%, mitt 26%, sant 16%. They had to be pretty confident.

Rand was suppose to close the deal in those last couple days in 2012.

Instead, of the people who decided on the day of caucus, paul lost with 8%, mitt 22%, sant 35%.

We lost this in the last two days. The undecided broke heavily away from us. On some level, Rand's job was to ensure the late deciders came our way, but they didn't.

He may feel bad about his own appeal to voters and how well he did his job.

That's just silly. I am not a Rand fan, but he did a great job handling all the media interviews those last couple of days. He was smart, to the point, and turned the challenge questions around on the interviewers with regularity. And when he was probed on disagreements with his father, he skillfully avoided answering, while making the interviewer think he had answered. If you compare Ron's interviews in the last couple of days with Rand's, Rand did a much better job. He started out in his own campaign unable to handle the media well, but he has grown in that respect. He's going to be a much better candidate than his dad was in the future. Sadly, I don't like his foreign policy or religiosity, which is much more overt than Ron's. But he's going to be a force because he can do one thing that Ron can't: speak without stumbling all over the place.

[damiengwa]

Ron is smarter than Rand and knows exactly what is going on. Rand seems to be learning. Whatever Ron is doing he is playing his cards the best he can.

Agreed. And the Iowa caucus served what the party bosses wanted it to. they found two potentially strong candidates who will work within the party system. Outsiders like paul are suppose to lose.

[Kords21]

I wish Rand would be a lot more active in making campaign stops for Ron Paul. It's all good and fine to have joint appearances, but you'll cover a lot more ground if you split up. Rand could really educate and wake people up the NDAA since he was one the primary opponents of it. Hopefully we'll see this happen.

[da32130]

That's just silly. I am not a Rand fan, but he did a great job handling all the media interviews those last couple of days. He was smart, to the point, and turned the challenge questions around on the interviewers with regularity. And when he was probed on disagreements with his father, he skillfully avoided answering, while making the interviewer think he had answered. If you compare Ron's interviews in the last couple of days with Rand's, Rand did a much better job. He started out in his own campaign unable to handle the media well, but he has grown in that respect. He's going to be a much better candidate than his dad was in the future. Sadly, I don't like his foreign policy or religiosity, which is much more overt than Ron's. But he's going to be a force because he can do one thing that Ron can't: speak without stumbling all over the place.

I'm not saying he didn't interview well. But that it didn't stop the late shift to Santorum. Why did they hold him back for so long? I'm guessing to win those last minute voters. But it wasn't enough.

As an example, had Palin done the same for Paul it may have turned the tide. Rand just isn't at that level yet.

I don't think that is silly, silly.

[Kevin Smyth]

That's just silly. I am not a Rand fan, but he did a great job handling all the media interviews those last couple of days. He was smart, to the point, and turned the challenge questions around on the interviewers with regularity. And when he was probed on disagreements with his father, he skillfully avoided answering, while making the interviewer think he had answered. If you compare Ron's interviews in the last couple of days with Rand's, Rand did a much better job. He started out in his own campaign unable to handle the media well, but he has grown in that respect. He's going to be a much better candidate than his dad was in the future. Sadly, I don't like his foreign policy or religiosity, which is much more overt than Ron's. But he's going to be a force because he can do one thing that Ron can't: speak without stumbling all over the place.

What is Rand's foreign policy?

[tfurrh]

Rand was sick that day as well.

[Kuthreck]

Frothy Surge.

I do not believe the Polls were touched, I believe the Media Manipulated the People's Choice.

[Chainspell]

he was thinking "in 4 years ill make them pay for this.."

[Brett85]

What is Rand's foreign policy?

Bring home some or most of the troops, but just not all of them. Put sanctions on Iran, but don't bomb them or invade them. Etc. It's sort of a watered down version of Ron's foreign policy views, which is still far better than anybody else in Congress today. But for some people it's all or nothing.

[The Gold Standard]

What is Rand's foreign policy?

Intervention in Iran for one thing. We just can't get enough of that blowback.

[TheDrakeMan]

Bring home some or most of the troops, but just not all of them. Put sanctions on Iran, but don't bomb them or invade them. Etc. It's sort of a watered down version of Ron's foreign policy views, which is still far better than anybody else in Congress today. But for some people it's all or nothing.

Personally I like Rand's better, but I know most here will disagree.

[No Free Beer]

B/C Ron was cheated.

Did anyone else notice how all the counties that Santorum and Romney won, the votes were counted so quickly?

Whereas all of RP's counties took so long to hit 100%?

I don't care what anyone else says, something wasn't right.

It doesn't make any sense that all the polls had us in either first or second going into the caucus, that CNN's entrance poll had us on top, and then we come (compared to the other two) a distant third.

Oh well, time to move on.

to NH!

...then to SC

Then to Florida...

Then to Washington....

BEEYYYAAAAA

[tremendoustie]

Bring home some or most of the troops, but just not all of them. Put sanctions on Iran, but don't bomb them or invade them. Etc. It's sort of a watered down version of Ron's foreign policy views, which is still far better than anybody else in Congress today. But for some people it's all or nothing.

"Sanctions" are what killed 500,000 Iraqi children, and created a big chunk of the blowback that led to 9/11


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbIX1CP9qr4

Murder of innocent civilians is not acceptable.

[JohnGalt23g]

There was rigging going on. That's not 'conspiracy' talk, that's from the reports from several parties who spoke to Bev Harris yesterday, or posted to the LRC blog. Harris has herself pointed out that while hand counting is much harder to hack, it is hackable, depending on the post count handling. The differential between the 'entrance'/exit polls and the early results to the final outcome is staggering, and by itself would be enough to be declared fraudulent if we were observing it in a third world country.

To lazily label it as 'loserspeak' to simply note the likelihood of fraud based on the witnesses and experts who have already said so, is the same kind of Pollyanna-loser approach that happened last time. Nothing was challenged in 2008, and how many primaries did Paul go in to win? ZERO. The regime knows if its tricks are not challenged or exposed, it can go right on using them, and so it did. Change won't happen unless the light of truth and critical scrutiny is placed upon the so-called 'transparent process' to ensure that canard is not itself being used to provide cover for the rigging that likely happened.

It's loserspeak. Losers make excuses or why they finished where they finished. Winners don't have to.

You have absolutely no evidence that any votes went uncounted. The campaign themselves has approved of the process. We finished right about where we polled. And yet, you would have us believe that under the eyes of every press organization in the world, some of whom are very friendly to Ron Paul, the vote was hacked by some means, inexplicable only to you.

Loserspeak, plain and simple.

[Brett85]

"Sanctions" are what killed 500,000 Iraqi children, and created a big chunk of the blowback that led to 9/11

Murder of innocent civilians is not acceptable.

I'm opposed to sanctions as well. I disagree with Rand on that issue.

[Omnica]

So the count "goes to the State" with the Governor plainly and openly against Ron Paul. I think votes that were sent in for Santorium were switched with Paul's votes at State level. Just my opinion.
Say it aint so

[anaconda]

I didn't see any indication that Rand was angry. He obviously had been fighting a cold by the way he was sounding in interviews plus he was coughing while standing up there behind Ron.

[RickyJ]

He's younger than Ron and has less patience for BS, so my first guess would be that he's outraged about the media's Santorum push and the effect it had on the results. He had personally told a crowd the day before that Ron Paul would be taking first in Iowa, so he may have been kicking himself for overextending his "promise" a bit. That's just a guess though.

He was outraged over the voter fraud that took place. An exit poll shows Ron clearly won it.

[MaxPower]

"Sanctions" are what killed 500,000 Iraqi children, and created a big chunk of the blowback that led to 9/11


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbIX1CP9qr4

Murder of innocent civilians is not acceptable.
Now, this is a fallacious "guilt-by-association" argument; the sanction bill which recently went through Congress does contain "humanitarian exceptions" for things like food and medical aid. I don't support it, mind you, but it is not the same as Clinton and Madeleine Albright's blockade against Iraq in the '90s.

[anaconda]

He was outraged over the voter fraud that took place. An exit poll shows Ron clearly won it.

Link for exit poll?

[libertarian4321]

So the count "goes to the State" with the Governor plainly and openly against Ron Paul. I think votes that were sent in for Santorium were switched with Paul's votes at State level. Just my opinion.

Sometimes stuff happens that we don't like that is NOT the result of a conspiracy. Really.

Even if the governor (and all the state and party officials) were behind some vast conspiracy to "cheat" once the votes were sent to the state, it wouldn't work, because the results are still known at the precinct level- and someone would have noticed that the numbers were not what was reported.

Seriously, guys, it's not a conspiracy. Ron finished right about where the polls predicted he would, as did Romney. Santorum finished a few points higher than expected, probably because every right wing radio jock in the country was pushing him as the last remaining viable Romney alternative.

I would have loved to see Ron win, but he didn't- though he came close in what was damned near a three way tie (and where Ron did fine where delegates are concerned).

Let's quit with the sniveling and the nonsensical conspiracy theory crap, pull up our big boy pants, and move forward.

[anewvoice]

Sometimes stuff happens that we don't like that is NOT the result of a conspiracy. Really.....
Let's quit with the sniveling and the nonsensical conspiracy theory crap, pull up our big boy pants, and move forward.

+rep, my wife rewatched this with me and her take was Rand looked really tired, not so much mad. Young whiipersnapper can't keep up with his old man huh?

[Feeding the Abscess]

Now, this is a fallacious "guilt-by-association" argument; the sanction bill which recently went through Congress does contain "humanitarian exceptions" for things like food and medical aid. I don't support it, mind you, but it is not the same as Clinton and Madeleine Albright's blockade against Iraq in the '90s.

The Iraq sanctions had the same exemptions. However, in order to prove that the items you would be shipping in were not on the blacklist, a massive time and cost sink would take place, making it very difficult to send in food and medicines.

The sanctions we put on Iran are just about the exact same sanctions we put on Iraq. And, considering the amount of troops, naval forces, and active wars that surround Iran, I would argue that what Iran is going through now is likely more severe than what Iraq went through.

[PismoPam]

Maybe his face was just tired from so much SMILING!
:D

[Chainspell]

he was brooding... he's saving all his thoughts and emotions up in a bottle. and he's gonna open it up in 4 years...

[RickyJ]

Link for exit poll?


Here is a link to an exit poll that shows it wasn't even close, Ron won by a significant margin. Exit polls are extremely accurate.

http://cpctcss.org/


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=b5tim-BbDm0

[Feeding the Abscess]

Here is a link to an exit poll that shows it wasn't even close, Ron won by a significant margin. Exit polls are extremely accurate.

http://cpctcss.org/


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=b5tim-BbDm0

Romney won exit polls in 2008, but got stomped by Huckabee. Ron was over-represented because of the campaign's organization, and we probably didn't get any undecided voters.

[anaconda]

Here is a link to an exit poll that shows it wasn't even close, Ron won by a significant margin. Exit polls are extremely accurate.

http://cpctcss.org/


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=b5tim-BbDm0

There seems to be grave doubt as to whether cpctcss is credible.