Ron Paul May Have Just Secretly Won Iowa

[mmadness]

http://www.businessinsider.com/ron-paul-winner-iowa-caucuses-strategy-201201

It's all about the delegates, baby. (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?345705-Delegates-delegates-delegates!-(And-alternates!))

[bronxboy10]

Link broken?

[milo10]

drop the last bracket.

[BrendenR]

http://www.businessinsider.com/ron-paul-winner-iowa-caucuses-strategy-201201

^Link Fixed.

[Blue]

Whoops

[mmadness]

Link broken?

Thanks - should be fixed now.

[Nate-ForLiberty]

http://www.businessinsider.com/ron-paul-winner-iowa-caucuses-strategy-201201

[bronxboy10]

I assume non-binding after the first round of votes, right?

[milo10]

Cool article. Stuff like this makes me realize how little I truly understand the whole delegate process. Props to the campaign and all the outstanding volunteers in Iowa! :)

[BSU kid]

Great article

[eleganz]

This could be big.

[Nate-ForLiberty]

All the pansy-assed gaping puss filled butt holes on this forum tonight are going to eat a shit load of crow. Of course, then they'll all come back acting like they were Paul supporters the whole time.

Fuckin' Marys.

[mmadness]

I assume non-binding after the first round of votes, right?

I'm not even sure if it is binding for the first round, hence my suggestion of a "stealth delegate" strategy (2nd link in OP). Can anyone here from Iowa clarify please?

[afwjam]

Great News!

[SchleckBros]

Media People: "Ron Paul wins Straw Poll, Straw Polls Don't Matter"

"Santorum/Romney wins Straw Poll, Delegates Don't Matter"

[pipewerKz]

Didn't know it was non-binding. Interesting. I hope people stuck around and did what they had to do.

[angrydragon]

Interesting.

[rideurlightning]

Oh shit hahaha

[69360]

It's not binding at all. Delegates can vote for their choice in the first round.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

If a Paul win would discredit Iowa, a Santorum win must make Iowa looks like a 3rd world country that doesn't know what they're doing.

[Blue]

Well my night just got a lot better after reading that article.

[smartguy911]

brilliant stuff. Campaign knows what they are doing. :D

[TheeJoeGlass]

What does this all mean?

[abstrusezincate]

:) It'd be delicious irony to win an election through procedure.

[ShaneEnochs]

I have to admit, I got pretty depressed and I'm pretty drunk, but if I understood this article correctly, I feel a bit happier now.

[abstrusezincate]

What does this all mean?

What it means is the vote you saw doesn't determine how the delegates vote. The delegates themselves, selected after the vote from the people who stuck around, will vote how they choose. So if Iowa has 25 delegates, and 20 of them are Ron Paul supporters, he might get 20 votes at the convention even though he didn't score 80% of the results.

[steel-the-deal]

http://operatorchan.org/m/src/m32159_394-intredasting.png

[ShaneEnochs]

I do hope that Nate doesn't consider me a pansy-assed gaping puss filled butt hole, though, just because I got depressed. :toady:

[mmadness]

It's not binding at all. Delegates can vote for their choice in the first round.

So what you're saying is, we can work on those delegates with soft support ("c'mon, you KNOW Santorum is not going to be the nominee, do you really want ANOTHER establishment candidate like McCain/Romney?) and convert them?

Very cool. :cool:

Or if there are unselected delegates for the other camps, is it possible to sign up to be alternates for them after the caucus is over but before the county/state conventions convene?

[slamhead]

I assume non-binding after the first round of votes, right?

I think you are thinking about the national convention where the first round is binding. This is county convention where they vote for delegates to go to national.

[Duckman]

What it means is the vote you saw doesn't determine how the delegates vote. The delegates themselves, selected after the vote from the people who stuck around, will vote how they choose. So if Iowa has 25 delegates, and 20 of them are Ron Paul supporters, he might get 20 votes at the convention even though he didn't score 80% of the results.

Well, this is only true if it goes to multiple rounds of voting, which is much more likely if everyone picks up a chunk of delegates, but not enough to win.

[pen_thief]

Thank you for this :)

[DonovanJames]

Gotta love the fine print for a campaign that uses magnifying glasses in their processes.

SO WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO FOR RON? Its not like our money will be worth anything anymore if he doesn't get elected, right? :)

[justatrey]

Well, they would spin it if we won, so we might as well spin it when we lose! :)

Honestly though, we're overreacting. I'm upset to, but we're up against THE POWERS THAT FUCKING BE. Think about that. We have billions of dollars against us. It's still all fun to be a part of, and we owe it to Ron not to turn our backs on him now. I say on to NH, and every other friggin state. I just hope you all will join me in BEGGING him to run independent if he doesn't get the nomination.

UNTIL THE LAST BALLOT IS CAST - RON PAUL 2012

No One But Paul!

[reduen]

All the pansy-assed gaping puss filled butt holes on this forum tonight are going to eat a shit load of crow. Of course, then they'll all come back acting like they were Paul supporters the whole time.

Fuckin' Marys.

Listen Nate, even guys like me are a bit bummed over not winning tonight. Don't be such a jerk....

[JulioForPaul]

We stole a lot of delegates last election. We should do even better this time around. We could easily get 10+ of the 25 delegates. If we really dominated tonight we could get more. In the last election I got to be a precinct level delegate just by sticking around. There were literally not enough people who stayed after the vote to fill all the delegate spots.

Everyone should keep this in mind if they live in a state that has similar rules.

[gb13]

God, I really hope it pans out that way. BTW, some of the comments are atrocious.

[Carehn]

I do hope that Nate doesn't consider me a pansy-assed gaping puss filled butt hole, though, just because I got depressed. :toady:

I don't think it would have anything to do with you being depressed if he did. :)

JK :)

[Nate-ForLiberty]

Listen Nate, even guys like me are a bit bummed over not winning tonight. Don't be such a jerk....

It's one thing to be bummed. It's completely another thing to be posting trash like "it's over" all over the forums. When half the people here start spewing that crap, I'm going to fight back damnit.

[lasenorita]

Of course, this really shouldn't be publicized. ;)

[slamhead]

As I understand it, the delegates chosen tonight go to their respective county GOP conventions where they vote on the 25 national delegates. The county delegates are not bound to vote for people who support the winner. This would help us at the national convention in the event there was a brokered convention. At the national convention the first round of voting is binding.

[Carehn]

All the pansy-assed gaping puss filled butt holes on this forum tonight are going to eat a shit load of crow. Of course, then they'll all come back acting like they were Paul supporters the whole time.

Fuckin' Marys.

Slow your roll bro.

[pacu44]

So, when does this news get released on the delegates? TONIGHT?!!!???

[me3]

No offense folks, but we heard all about the delegates last time.

Iowa is not important for the delegates. It is important for electability (Paul didn't make that case) and it is important for fund raising. This was Paul's best chance to win a state. He is not going to get the nomination if he can't win a state.

Losing Iowa makes improving in every other early state much more difficult, including and most importantly SC and FL.

[JulioForPaul]

These are Ron Paul delegates bounded to RON PAUL if we get enough precinct level delegates. The actual vote we are watching is meaningless.

[abstrusezincate]

I believe the delegates are actually unbound.

From Wikipedia:


Republican Party process

The non-binding results are tabulated and reported to the state party, which releases the results to the media. Delegates from the precinct caucuses go on to the county conventions, which choose delegates to the district conventions, which in turn selects delegates to the Iowa State Convention. Thus, it is the Republican Iowa State Convention, not the precinct caucuses, which selects the ultimate delegates from Iowa to the Republican National Convention. All delegates are officially unbound from the results of the precinct caucus, although media organizations either estimate delegate numbers by estimating county convention results or simply divide them proportionally.

In short, whatever estimations the media makes, it makes no difference. Whomever gets the delegates, gets the votes.

[pacu44]

Well, Louisiana is a winnable state =}

[Ninja Homer]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iowa_caucus#Republican_Party_process
"Delegates from the precinct caucuses go on to the county conventions, which choose delegates to the district conventions, which in turn selects delegates to the Iowa State Convention. Thus, it is the Republican Iowa State Convention, not the precinct caucuses, which selects the ultimate delegates from Iowa to the Republican National Convention. All delegates are officially unbound from the results of the precinct caucus, although media organizations either estimate delegate numbers by estimating county convention results or simply divide them proportionally."

Iowa delegates to the RNC are completely unbound, even in the first round.

[Ninja Homer]

I believe the delegates are actually unbound.



In short, whatever estimations the media makes, it makes no difference. Whomever gets the delegates, gets the votes.

Beat me to it, but yes. :)

[seawolf]

me3 you speak the truth. Like you I am also from the last Campaign, our bright spot is that we more than doubled our vote total, and we leave Iowa as a legitimate Campaign, unlike four years ago when we were laughed at and ignored by the media.

It will be hard I agree, but things are very different this year. The Campaign Staff is much improved and the Liberty Movement is spreading much faster than I had ever hoped.

Let's roll up our sleaves me3 and get to work.

[White Bear Lake]

LOL, they won't know what hit em`!

This article makes me a much more happy

[bkreigh]

this is stuff that should have already been discussed by meetup groups. Furthermore, the voters should realize how their caucuses work.

[JulioForPaul]

No offense folks, but we heard all about the delegates last time.

Iowa is not important for the delegates. It is important for electability (Paul didn't make that case) and it is important for fund raising. This was Paul's best chance to win a state. He is not going to get the nomination if he can't win a state.

Losing Iowa makes improving in every other early state much more difficult, including and most importantly SC and FL.

I would agree to a certain point. But we are getting a much higher percentage of the vote and delegates this time around. And the possibility of a brokered convention is a very real possibility (unlike last time)- especially if we steal delegates like we are doing in Iowa.

[damiengwa]

This whole, steal the delegates thing, didn't work last time. They shutdown the convention in Nevada and i think Alaska got 5 out of 25 delegates to the floor of the national convention. Every one else horse traded.

[mmadness]

This whole, steal the delegates thing, didn't work last time. They shutdown the convention in Nevada and i think Alaska got 5 out of 25 delegates to the floor of the national convention. Every one else horse traded.

That was after pretty much everyone had settled on McCain as the nominee! Can you imagine with the level of support we have now what we can do? Stop being a debbie downer!

[White Bear Lake]

The key is to broker the convention and then force rand to be the nominee through compromise or somehting.

[phill4paul]

Wut? Over? It ain't over till we say it is over...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8lT1o0sDwI

[JulioForPaul]

This whole, steal the delegates thing, didn't work last time. They shutdown the convention in Nevada and i think Alaska got 5 out of 25 delegates to the floor of the national convention. Every one else horse traded.

We are doing much better this time. And there appears to be a greater possibility of a splintered vote. Romney cannot seem to break the 25% ceiling in most states. It's just a matter of Santorum and Gingrich splitting up enough of the other votes for a brokered convention to happen. I think the delegates will be much more important this time around and Ron Paul will actually have a lot of them.

[JulioForPaul]

The key is to broker the convention and then force rand to be the nominee through compromise or somehting.

This is honestly our best chance.

[Gravik]

Reading this article gave me a sigh of relief. When do they report who gets the delegates?

[miyavi]

niceeee

[Peace&Freedom]

Yes, we heard about delegates last time in 2008, only then Paul activists were just learning about the process, and there was no brokered convention to utilize the strategem. This time the campaign and movement IS ready to get it done, and it IS likely to force a brokered convention. The media is likely going back to sleep, and won't nearly be as aggressive as they were on Paul in the last three weeks, since they're busy high-fiving each other over having 'won' the Iowa war. Rand's anger (on display tonight) certainly looked like he has "the eye of the tiger" to accept a brokered con nomination as the 'compromise' candidate.

[damiengwa]

Reading this article gave me a sigh of relief. When do they report who gets the delegates?

They don't, its just theory. They are relying on the idea that some people stayed after and filled delegate spots, and that we have ghosts pretending to be Romney and Santorum supporters. The easiest camp to infiltrate was probably Santorums.

[damiengwa]

Don't count Chris Christie out either.

[amy31416]

It's one thing to be bummed. It's completely another thing to be posting trash like "it's over" all over the forums. When half the people here start spewing that crap, I'm going to fight back damnit.

Let me tell you a little story about 2007/2008 and how I railed against the machine, threw curses everywhere all over this forum and wanted to slap kittens after the NH primary--okay, I won't, because it's embarrassing. But we have to vent. We spent a lot of money, invested ourselves emotionally and expected a lot...we '07's were mostly political neophytes then...and even though I'm not anymore, I still feel the same way about Iowa this time around. It is healthy to vent so we can get back to being productive....do not try to stop this, just quietly flag anything that belongs in the vent or might be harmful. Seriously. You know I think you mean well, but we have to purge this.

[abstrusezincate]

It's not so much a theory as that you need to watch out for the state committees changing rules on you. But lots of the crotchety people who you see who've been around since '07 got on those committees in states that matter, and I think it'll pay dividends this time.

[JulioForPaul]

They don't, its just theory. They are relying on the idea that some people stayed after and filled delegate spots, and that we have ghosts pretending to be Romney and Santorum supporters. The easiest camp to infiltrate was probably Santorums.

We don't need any "ghosts" pretending to be Romney and Santorum supporters. Iowa's delegates are unbound to any candidates. We literally just had to have enough people wait till after the vote and fill delegate spots. This is what we did last election and we doubled our delegates in Iowa compared to what we should have gotten.

[samsung1]

How many delegate do you think we got!

[JulioForPaul]

It's not so much a theory as that you need to watch out for the state committees changing rules on you. But lots of the crotchety people who you see who've been around since '07 got on those committees in states that matter, and I think it'll pay dividends this time.

Couldn't have said it any better.

[JulioForPaul]

How many delegate do you think we got!

If we double our percentages as we did last election we would get 40% (2 x 20) of delegates.... or 10 IOWA DELEGATES. If we are even more organized than last time we could conceivably sweep the delegates. ALL 25.

[itsnobody]

Delegates are at all that matter to the GOP nomination process and Iowa is just one state.

[mmadness]

We don't need any "ghosts" pretending to be Romney and Santorum supporters. Iowa's delegates are unbound to any candidates. We literally just had to have enough people wait till after the vote and fill delegate spots. This is what we did last election and we doubled our delegates in Iowa compared to what we should have gotten.

Yes, I agree, but if all the Paul delegate and alternate spots are filled, and nobody else is left in the room except for Paul supporters (like what I saw in C-Span), and they still need delegates/alternates for Romney/Santorum, then they will be easier to fill this way instead of just stepping up as a delegate to fill a spot. Of course state rules will vary, some states allow you to just step in, but from what I saw at the Iowa Caucus, you need to "be" for a certain candidate to fill that spot.

[RPit]

We're just trying to spin it. There is no way to know we 'stayed'.. We lost and came in 3rd. But 3rd isn't that bad considering how the media manipulated the people in the last minute for Santorum. I think we did good. The fact that Romney got more than us still bothers me but oh well.

We spent A LOT of resources in Iowa. In fact if you think about it we campaigned in that state for 4 years. Campaign for Liberty was always active. And we still came third.

This just says the media is powerful. However much we want to marginalize the effect of media, we're just lying to ourselves. Majority of this country is illiterate (you know what I mean).

We just have to march on. We need to be more aggressive. If any of you were on the sidelines this should be an example of why we lost because of YOU. All those sideliners are a disgrace. They just want a free lunch. You blame those Democrats and welfare-liberals wanting a free lunch from gov. YOU are free-lunchers. You don't want to do shit for Ron Paul. All you know how to do is talk about how much you love Ron Paul on forums like this. You want to express your excitement about Ron on these forums. But when it comes to actions, YOU DON'T do SHIT.

There are people here who are posting so often that I have to wonder if they even have a job. How is it that they can post everything 'up-to-date'. They can post the latest polls that come out. How is it they do that? Seems like most of them are just searching Google News for the whole day, reading things to make themselves feel better, and they are just Ron Paul Addicts. They love to READ. But they don't do SHIT. Why aren't these people on the Phone from Home program. And I'm talking to all of you who post up-do-date info in secs.

Are you like those who post 'first comment' when a new vid pops up in Youtube. Cuz you being first to post that info here isn't going to do anything for this movement.

Let Iowa serve as an example: DO SOMETHING. ANYTHING. Don't just chat on forums.

Ask yourself this. How much time do you spend DOING something FOR Ron Paul. Because watching Tubes, and asking for every single tube that mentions Ron Paul, ISN'T helping. How many interviews did you watch of Ron Paul? How many news channels showings did you watch? How many radio interviews did you listen to? Any time Ron is on some show all you do is ask for tubes and watch it. Does YOU watching Ron speak, when you already agree with him, help him? You could have used that time spent on promoting Ron Paul to people doing the Phone-banking instead of watching videos and listening to radio talks by Ron. Are you just info-addicts? You are so addicted to Ron Paul that the whole day you're looking up anything that has to do with Ron Paul.

Re-assess YOURSELF. What the hell have you been doing. If you have been spending more time watching Tubes and chatting on forums and professing your love for Ron Paul than you have spent on CAMPAIGNING for Ron then YOU are a DISGRACE. And calling yourself a Patriot because you just are a 'Ron Paul Addict' is childish.

[Feelgood]

Ron Paul got a whole 4 delegates! WOW we win!

..HOLD..

Santorum and Romney both get 6 delegates. Ok, we didnt win. http://www.geezergamers.com/images/smilies/smiley_rolleyes[1].gif

[samsung1]

If we double our percentages as we did last election we would get 40% (2 x 20) of delegates.... or 10 IOWA DELEGATES. If we are even more organized than last time we could conceivably sweep the delegates. ALL 25.

Amazing!

[damiengwa]

Ron Paul got a whole 4 delegates! WOW we win!

..HOLD..

Santorum and Romney both get 6 delegates. Ok, we didnt win. http://www.geezergamers.com/images/smilies/smiley_rolleyes[1].gif

how are you figuring that? the straw poll doesn't matter.

[pacu44]

http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/did-ron-paul-just-win-iowa/289986

[JulioForPaul]

We're just trying to spin it. There is no way to know we 'stayed'.. We lost and came in 3rd. But 3rd isn't that bad considering how the media manipulated the people in the last minute for Santorum. I think we did good. The fact that Romney got more than us still bothers me but oh well.

We spent A LOT of resources in Iowa. In fact if you think about it we campaigned in that state for 4 years. Campaign for Liberty was always active. And we still came third.

This just says the media is powerful. However much we want to marginalize the effect of media, we're just lying to ourselves. Majority of this country is illiterate (you know what I mean).

We just have to march on. We need to be more aggressive. If any of you were on the sidelines this should be an example of why we lost because of YOU. All those sideliners are a disgrace. They just want a free lunch. You blame those Democrats and welfare-liberals wanting a free lunch from gov. YOU are free-lunchers. You don't want to do shit for Ron Paul. All you know how to do is talk about how much you love Ron Paul on forums like this. You want to express your excitement about Ron on these forums. But when it comes to actions, YOU DON'T blah blah blah

You come across as a pissed off youngster. The most important thing you can do is stick around after you vote and become a delegate in your state. Bound or unbound this is the most important thing you can do. You realize we kicked ass in caucus's last election despite getting shit for voting percentages. We know a lot of Paul supporters stayed behind this time because that is exactly what we did the last election.

It's very possible we got the vast majority of tonight's delegates.

[JulioForPaul]

Ron Paul got a whole 4 delegates! WOW we win!

..HOLD..

Santorum and Romney both get 6 delegates. Ok, we didnt win. http://www.geezergamers.com/images/smilies/smiley_rolleyes[1].gif

This is false. There is no way to know how many delegates certain candidates got.... only on the precinct level. Based on election's results it is very likely we got somewhere between 10-25 delegates because of our devotion and organization.

[ronpaulitician]

Meanwhile, in Syria, people vote for liberty by throwing their bodies against bullets fired by machine guns.

We're fighting a well-oiled machine and almost won the first true victory for liberty in centuries. No time to pat ourselves on the back, though. There's still a lot of fighting left to do.

[mmadness]

http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/did-ron-paul-just-win-iowa/289986

LOL, check out the comments on this. ;)

[RPit]

You come across as a pissed off youngster. The most important thing you can do is stick around after you vote and become a delegate in your state. Bound or unbound this is the most important thing you can do. You realize we kicked ass in caucus's last election despite getting shit for voting percentages. We know a lot of Paul supporters stayed behind this time because that is exactly what we did the last election.

It's very possible we got the vast majority of tonight's delegates.

Although Delegates matter, it just means that we're winning because of the process. Not because the people have woken up. Do you see what I mean? Winning isn't everything if the country is asleep. The FUTURE of this country is NOT Ron Paul. It is the PEOPLE. Ron Paul is fighting to wake 'em up not just to win the Presidency. My comments need to be understood from the 'people's perspective'.. Not the 'election perspective'.

[Feelgood]

This is false. There is no way to know how many delegates certain candidates got.... only on the precinct level. Based on election's results it is very likely we got somewhere between 10-25 delegates because of our devotion and organization.

http://www.cnn.com/election/2012/primaries/state/ia

http://greatdepressiondeux.com/delegates.jpg

[ForTheRepublic]

If the media wants to mislead people on what is really important. Then the egg is on there faces.

[mmadness]

http://www.cnn.com/election/2012/primaries/state/ia

Yup, but these are NATIONAL delegates, who are not yet determined who they will be.

The people who stayed behind at the caucuses determine who goes to the county conventions, which determine who goes to the state convention, who determines who gets to be the 25 delegates for Iowa. Now these delegates may ALL be Ron Paul supporters, even if they are "bound" to support other candidates. I've heard they can choose to be unbound for certain rounds of voting (i.e. after the 1st round). So think about it. ;)

[tsai3904]

http://www.cnn.com/election/2012/primaries/state/ia

CNN is estimating National Convention delegates based on the straw poll vote.

In reality, delegates were elected today to go to the County Convention. At the County Convention, delegates will be elected to the Congressional District Caucuses. At the CD Caucuses, delegates will be elected to the State Convention. At the State Convention, delegates will be elected to the National Convention.

It's impossible to know how many National Convention delegates each candidate will receive because there's a four step process that culminates in June at the State Convention.

[pacu44]

This is false. There is no way to know how many delegates certain candidates got.... only on the precinct level. Based on election's results it is very likely we got somewhere between 10-25 delegates because of our devotion and organization.

http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P12/IA-R

I am a newb to Iowa inner workings, what is this? I see 6 for Paul... what does this mean? Help

[White Bear Lake]

http://www.cnn.com/election/2012/primaries/state/ia

http://greatdepressiondeux.com/delegates.jpg

The media just projects who they think will win the delegates. They aren't decided for sure in IA until March. As you can see, their predictions don't even add up to 25 which is how many delegates IA has. The national delegates will be decided at the state convention by the state delegates. And Paul may have just picked up the most state delegates tonight.

[White Bear Lake]

http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P12/IA-R

I am a newb to Iowa inner workings, what is this? I see 6 for Paul... what does this mean? Help

That's what they'r projecting. It's a "soft" total though so we can still swing things our way.

[ninepointfive]

Help Ron and spread the important delegates message. We can still train and motivate others in different states from here on out.

https://www.facebook.com/RonPaulDelegates2012
http://ronpauldelegates.wordpress.com/

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/308401_304248782926589_260179997333468_1213187_491 284155_n.jpg

[Danemicus]

As a Brit, I don't really understand the delegates system, so I won't question this! It's brilliant to know that more delegates could have been picked up despite not having the most amount of votes. I see this has already been tweeted 700+ times. I suspect there are those out there who won't take it very well once it really gets out there, but that's just too bad. :D

Time to focus on NH. Who knows, these IA results could still be positive for NH. I can't see many people accepting this "Newt overachieves with 4th" nonsense. Meanwhile, Santorum will become irrelevant again very quickly once they learn a few home truths about him. It's the timing of Santorum's push that was the problem since there wasn't enough time to get the facts out there. At least this time we know full well that a Huntsman "surge" is on the horizon. Next round!

[Ninja Homer]

http://www.cnn.com/election/2012/primaries/state/ia

http://greatdepressiondeux.com/delegates.jpg

See the little * after Del? This is what it says underneath it:
Del* - The delegate column shows the most recent estimated number of pledged delegates from this state.

[Feelgood]

This is false. There is no way to know how many delegates certain candidates got.... only on the precinct level. Based on election's results it is very likely we got somewhere between 10-25 delegates because of our devotion and organization.


The media just projects who they think will win the delegates. They aren't decided for sure in IA until March. As you can see, their predictions don't even add up to 25 which is how many delegates IA has. The national delegates will be decided at the state convention by the state delegates. And Paul may have just picked up the most state delegates tonight.

How the fuck do they get away with that? I mean this is like MSM mis-representation to a new level. How is it even legal? If you go to that site, it looks as if it is stated as a matter of fact.

[american.swan]

The CONVENTION is all any party need.

These various styles of caucuses and primaries only keep the media and elites in charge. Forcing the delegates to do whatever the sheeple say is stupid. The sheeple should become delegates!!

[mmadness]

How the fuck do they get away with that? I mean this is like MSM mis-representation to a new level. How is it even legal? If you go to that site, it looks as if it is stated as a matter of fact.

Not the first time the MSM misrepresents. :D But we can use it to our advantage if we know how the system works.

[cavalier973]

No offense folks, but we heard all about the delegates last time.

Iowa is not important for the delegates. It is important for electability (Paul didn't make that case) and it is important for fund raising. This was Paul's best chance to win a state. He is not going to get the nomination if he can't win a state.

Losing Iowa makes improving in every other early state much more difficult, including and most importantly SC and FL.

Ha!

2012 Election Results: Ron Paul 54%, Obama 38%
me3's reaction: "Well, without the Congress, Paul can't really do anything; we might as well be sad."
2012 Congressional Election Results: 55% of Congress are pro-Paul people, all 33 Senators are pro-Paul as well
me3's reaction: "Too bad that the Supreme Court will strike everything down, we should now be sad."
2013 (post-inauguration) shocker news: 6 of the 9 Supreme Court justices have been run over by a truck: President Paul will be able to appoint a bunch of new pro-liberty justices
me3's reaction: "He'll never get them past the Senate; be sad, everyone."
2013 news: Every one of Ron Paul's Supreme Court appointees got approved
me3's reaction: "Aliens are sure to come to earth and melt our brains. Be sad, dammit!!"

[mmadness]

Ha!

2012 Election Results: Ron Paul 54%, Obama 38%
me3's reaction: "Well, without the Congress, Paul can't really do anything; we might as well be sad."
2012 Congressional Election Results: 55% of Congress are pro-Paul people, all 33 Senators are pro-Paul as well
me3's reaction: "Too bad that the Supreme Court will strike everything down, we should now be sad."
2013 (post-inauguration) shocker news: 6 of the 9 Supreme Court justices have been run over by a truck: President Paul will be able to appoint a bunch of new pro-liberty justices
me3's reaction: "He'll never get them past the Senate; be sad, everyone."
2013 news: Every one of Ron Paul's Supreme Court appointees got approved
me3's reaction: "Aliens are sure to come to earth and melt our brains. Be sad, dammit!!"

Yeah, no kidding. A lot of panicked/debbie-downer posts on here.

What place did McCain come in during the last Iowa caucuses? :)

The delegates are how Ron Paul gets elected, so this is of paramount importance. Imagine if you have a majority at every state convention. They can't railroad that many people.

[WyoLiberty]

Damn the torpedoes, man! Bring on the unbound delegates...this thing is far from freaking over!! It is Ron Paul to the end.....

[cavalier973]

I am in quite a good mood tonight, though I wasn't earlier. Yes, I was disappointed in the results, but I was wanting Ron Paul to win with 55% of the votes, which was fantastically unrealistic. Then I decided to see what the 2008 nominee garnered, and he got a mere 13% in Iowa. McCain went on to win New Hampshire by a couple of points, which I hope Paul does, but I'm trying to be realistic.
One of the big things that Dr. Paul has going for him is that he is the "anti-war" candidate, and I get the idea that that's a much larger advantage than people like Muttonhead Limbaugh want to admit. The economy is starting a little bit of an upswing, due to the printing of trillions of dollars by the Federal Reserve; it's a new bubble, and Dr. Paul is the only candidate who understands that. The youtube videos of him in 2002 predicting the housing bubble and pointing out the flaws of FHLMC and FNMA are gold--share them with everybody.
The "racist" newsletters, I think, have been played out, and it was the only bullet the anti-Paul coalition had left, when it became obvious that trying to paint him as a looney left-winger on foreign policy wasn't working.
Now, Santorum has to take his turn running through the gauntlet, trying to explain why he endorsed Arlen Specter, etc. I don't think he has the resources to maintain a presence for much longer. Perry may be dropping out. Bachmann says she's staying in, but eventually her staff will have to sit her down and get her to see reality.

[CJLauderdale4]

The pledged delegates are selected at the state convention in June. This is what the msm is projecting. However these are chosen from county delegates ...which are selected from precinct delegates in April/May. So if we got a buttload of precinct delegates tonight then we take off in other states there is a possibility that Iowa delegates at the national convention will have no problems brokering over to Ron Paul. This is huge for the long run!

[Xenophage]

Yeah, no kidding. A lot of panicked/debbie-downer posts on here.

What place did McCain come in during the last Iowa caucuses? :)

The delegates are how Ron Paul gets elected, so this is of paramount importance. Imagine if you have a majority at every state convention. They can't railroad that many people.

You guys are such obvious newbies! Anyway, I like to see your unflappable enthusiasm. I completely endorse any and all secret plans to score delegates and attend the state conventions and mess with the GOP. We did it four years ago and it was great fun. It may have even done some good here and there.

[The_Ruffneck]

What place did McCain come in during the last Iowa caucuses?
McCain had the MSM behind him , Paul doesn't
Like it or not guys the MSM still calls the shots , but their power IS on the decline.

[mmadness]

bump

[bobbyw24]

http://www.businessinsider.com/ron-paul-winner-iowa-caucuses-strategy-201201

It's all about the delegates, baby. (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?345705-Delegates-delegates-delegates!-(And-alternates!)):confused:

Yeah--I heard that in 2008 and where'd it get us?

[bobbyw24]

Perfect headline to get attention.

[mmadness]

:confused:

Yeah--I heard that in 2008 and where'd it get us?

Last time I checked, this ain't 2008, Bobby.

[Krugerrand]

:confused:

Yeah--I heard that in 2008 and where'd it get us?


"Part of what we've been training the Ron Paul people to do is not to leave after the vote," Dan Godzich, a senior campaign advisor, told BI. "Stay and get elected to the conventions and get us those delegates."

I don't remember any organized effort on the part of the campaign to accomplish this in 2008.

[Apparition]

I don't remember any organized effort on the part of the campaign to accomplish this in 2008.

it was there... just very late in the game.
this time around should be a lot different now that C4L has had a chance to set up shop and keep a lot of people organized for 2012.

[shrugged0106]

so any idea how many fully committed delegates we are sure on last night?

[Patrick Henry]

so any idea how many fully committed delegates we are sure on last night?
/\This

[Krugerrand]

so any idea how many fully committed delegates we are sure on last night?

They're not committed ... and they won't be selected until June:
http://iowacity.patch.com/articles/new-delegate-rules-may-provide-twist-to-presidential-race


Well, our observant friends, that's because unlike most states, Iowa's delegates are not awarded on the date the state votes. They are actually selected at the state convention in June, completing a process of winnowing out delegates that begins on Jan. 3.

Redlawsk, who used to teach at the University of Iowa and co-authored a book about the state's lead off status, said the Jan. 3 vote for president is essentially a "beauty contest" that has little connection to who the final delegates will give their vote. Iowa's value as a state contest has not, and never really will be, about delegates, he said.

"What's important about Iowa and New Hampshire is not actually what happens, it's a matter of how media focuses based on the results," Redlawsk said. "Its symbolic value is huge."

Redlawsk said Iowa's delegates are nominated at the precinct level, then further sorted at each level at the county and district conventions. Then, at the state convention the delegates from this pool are chosen to represent the state at the National Convention.

Hagle said that delegates are selected for different reasons, some of which have to do with what candidates they profess to support. Still, there is no law or rule binding these delegates to vote for a particular candidate. But since the race is usually decided by June, all of the delegates usually end up voting for the last- standing candidate.

[tropicangela]

OP article has been removed from Business Insider.

[Krugerrand]

OP article has been removed from Business Insider.

it's still there for me.

[shrugged0106]

They're not committed ... and they won't be selected until June:
http://iowacity.patch.com/articles/new-delegate-rules-may-provide-twist-to-presidential-race

I understand the "formal" commitment is not able to be deduced at this point, I'm asking for the informal committment, (ie: passionate Paul fans that wont change their support no matter what as delegates) Are any folks like these in the mix?

[tropicangela]

Many people having trouble opening the web page.


DES MOINES — Ron Paul may have officially come in third tonight, but if the campaign's caucus strategy went off as planned, then Paul may actually be the real winner of the first Republican voting contest.

That's because Paul's massive organizational push in Iowa focused on both winning votes, and also on making sure that Paul supporters stuck around after the vote to make sure they were selected as county delegates — the first step towards being elected as a delegate to the Republican National Convention.

That's because Iowa's Republican caucuses are non-binding — they are technically just a straw poll, so once selected, delegates are free to vote for whichever presidential candidate they choose.

"Part of what we've been training the Ron Paul people to do is not to leave after the vote," Dan Godzich, a senior campaign advisor, told BI. "Stay and get elected to the conventions and get us those delegates."

Godzich and Sydney Hay, another Paul advisor, crisscrossed Iowa in the weeks leading up to the caucuses, making sure precinct leaders knew what to do and organizing slates of delegates that would ensure Paul walked away with a strong majority, even if he lost the caucus' straw poll vote.

By the eve of Election Day, Hay said she was confident that Paul would come away from Iowa with a strong majority of the state's delegates. It's a good first step toward making sure that Paul has a strong presence on the floor in Tampa this summer — something that his supporters believe will help force the Republican party to start reckoning with their Movement.

UPDATE: 1:40 a.m.

Sources close to the Paul campaign indicated Tuesday that they were happy with their delegate count. Although we couldn't get specific numbers, a source told Business Insider that Paul nailed down the delegates in all of Iowa's smaller counties, and made a strong showing in several larger ones.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/ron-paul-winner-iowa-caucuses-strategy-201201#ixzz1iVCE6LAi

[DEGuy]

(01-04) 00:13 PST WASHINGTON (AP) --

Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney won most of the delegates in the Iowa Republican caucuses Tuesday, edging former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum.

Iowa's delegates to the national convention are not bound by the results of the caucuses. But an Associated Press analysis showed Romney would win 13 and Santorum would win 12, if there were no changes in their support as the campaign wears on.

Twenty-five delegates were at stake in the caucuses. Rep. Ron Paul of Texas came in third in the voting but was shut out of delegates because he didn't win any of Iowa's four congressional districts.

Romney and Santorum each won two congressional districts, and Romney was the statewide winner by a mere eight votes, according to final results announced early Wednesday by the Iowa GOP.

A total of 2,286 delegates are slated to go to the party's national convention. Support from a majority — 1,144 — is needed to claim the Republican nomination to take on incumbent President Barack Obama.

Iowa Republicans use a multi-step process to elect national delegates, starting with local caucuses. On Tuesday, caucus-goers elected delegates to county conventions, who in turn will elect delegates to congressional district conventions and the state party convention in June. These are the conventions where delegates to the GOP national convention in Tampa, Fla., are selected.

Each of the four congressional districts will elect three delegates to the national convention. They will also appoint two members to a slate committee, which will choose 13 additional delegates. The slate is voted on at the party's state convention in June.

The system puts a premium on getting the most votes in individual congressional districts. If a candidate's supporters can control a congressional district convention, they can choose national delegates and slate committee members who support their candidate.

In Iowa and other caucus states, the AP uses the results from local caucuses to calculate the number of national delegates each candidate will win, if the candidates maintain the same level of support throughout the process. The AP will update delegate totals, if support for the candidates changes.


Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2012/01/04/national/w000327S17.DTL#ixzz1iVFQaRem

I should know better than to trust the MSM, but the AP is painting the opposite picture. :(

[Bruno]

I was elected a delegate, and our other delgate for our precinct is a Paul supporter as well. :)

[Maltheus]

This isn't how I observed it on CSPAN last night. They showed a single precinct, with straw poll totals similar to what we ended up with. That precinct had six delegates to send to state (or county). Based on the percentages, they gave 3 to Romney, 2 to Santorum and 1 to Paul (asking a representative from each camp to select their delegates at that time). Due to integer arithmetic, this may give Romney a 3 to 1 advantage over us in selecting delegates at state. :(

Here in Colorado, it does work the way it does in this article, but we're too late in the process and not nearly as organized as Iowa.

[tropicangela]

What does this table mean?

The Green Papers
2012 Presidential Primaries, Caucuses, and Conventions
http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P12/IA-R

6 unpledged delegates each for Mitt, Rick, and Ron

[Travlyr]

What does this table mean?

The Green Papers
2012 Presidential Primaries, Caucuses, and Conventions
http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P12/IA-R

6 unpledged delegates each for Mitt, Rick, and Ron
I'm not sure what it means.
It may mean that if we insult enough older voters and baby boomers for being socialist dumasses, then the available delegates can go fuck themselves and we can take our 6 to the national convention in Tampa.
Or the younger generation can work with the older generation to explain to the available delegates how Ron Paul is the true conservative in the race and end up with 16 delegates that go to Tampa committed to vote for Ron.

[mmadness]

This isn't how I observed it on CSPAN last night. They showed a single precinct, with straw poll totals similar to what we ended up with. That precinct had six delegates to send to state (or county). Based on the percentages, they gave 3 to Romney, 2 to Santorum and 1 to Paul (asking a representative from each camp to select their delegates at that time). Due to integer arithmetic, this may give Romney a 3 to 1 advantage over us in selecting delegates at state. :(

Here in Colorado, it does work the way it does in this article, but we're too late in the process and not nearly as organized as Iowa.

You saw the same thing I did. However, did you see how disorganized the other campaigns were and how soft the support was? I think only a handful of people stayed and these people will not be as committed to showing up to the county conventions like our support.

Strategy to get delegates in this situation in another post I did: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?345877-MUST-READ-IF-YOU-ARE-CRYING!!-DID-RON-PAUL-JUST-WIN&p=3955021#post3955021

[tropicangela]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaksotEHZJY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaksotEHZJY

[Ninja Homer]

This isn't how I observed it on CSPAN last night. They showed a single precinct, with straw poll totals similar to what we ended up with. That precinct had six delegates to send to state (or county). Based on the percentages, they gave 3 to Romney, 2 to Santorum and 1 to Paul (asking a representative from each camp to select their delegates at that time). Due to integer arithmetic, this may give Romney a 3 to 1 advantage over us in selecting delegates at state. :(

Here in Colorado, it does work the way it does in this article, but we're too late in the process and not nearly as organized as Iowa.

You'd probably find that that's an exception to the rule. Precinct delegates are chosen however the precinct decides to choose them, and they use Robert's Rules to figure that out. The Chairman probably railroaded it that way, and if people don't know the rules or how to stop it, then they probably wouldn't even know it was being done or how to stop it. If you're in a caucus state, you really need to know Robert's Rules as well as the rules for delegate selection.

The way most precincts probably did it was to just take volunteers for their delegate spots at the end, after most people already left after voting. Then if they have more volunteers then delegate spots, they might ask if anybody wants to just be an alternate rather than a full delegate, and if there are still more volunteers than delegate spots, then they'll probably vote on who will be delegates.

A well-organized campaign with well-informed voters can do very well in a caucus state, just because most voters are uninformed to how the system actually works.

[Badger Paul]

Some of these media outlets are so full of sh*t it's not funny.

Unlike the Democrats, GOP delegates in Iowa and a lot of caucus states are not bound in any step of the process until the very end. Why AP used this as a moniker I have no idea but take it with a grain of salt. It's crap. Iowans don't select their congressional district delegates until later this spring anyway and how those are picked will depend a lot at what happens at the county level and how those conventions go depends a lot at the precinct level.

Don't assign delegates that aren't assigned. It's not that hard to do. You MFers want a score to point to but sorry, there just isn't one there.

[Maltheus]

You'd probably find that that's an exception to the rule. Precinct delegates are chosen however the precinct decides to choose them, and they use Robert's Rules to figure that out. The Chairman probably railroaded it that way, and if people don't know the rules or how to stop it, then they probably wouldn't even know it was being done or how to stop it. If you're in a caucus state, you really need to know Robert's Rules as well as the rules for delegate selection.

The way most precincts probably did it was to just take volunteers for their delegate spots at the end, after most people already left after voting. Then if they have more volunteers then delegate spots, they might ask if anybody wants to just be an alternate rather than a full delegate, and if there are still more volunteers than delegate spots, then they'll probably vote on who will be delegates.

A well-organized campaign with well-informed voters can do very well in a caucus state, just because most voters are uninformed to how the system actually works.

Yes, I did kind of get that impression. The chairman proposed the "fair" distribution of delegates, someone quickly seconded and everyone ayed. But whose to say that didn't happen elsewhere?

[mmadness]

Yes, I did kind of get that impression. The chairman proposed the "fair" distribution of delegates, someone quickly seconded and everyone ayed. But whose to say that didn't happen elsewhere?

Hmm - so this might not be standard procedure? Hmm... :mad: Looks like we'll have to up our game. Stealth and learn the process!


Donate
Phone from home
and
Become a DELEGATE for Ron Paul

https://www.facebook.com/RonPaulDelegates2012
Delegates Training Page: http://ronpauldelegates.wordpress.com/
Stealth Delegates/Alternates:
RPF Thread: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?345705
RPF Post: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?345877-MUST-READ-IF-YOU-ARE-CRYING!!-DID-RON-PAUL-JUST-WIN&p=3955021#post3955021
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/309033_304248769593257_260179997333468_1213186_125 8222131_n.jpg
This is how we win!

[Todd]

It's one thing to be bummed. It's completely another thing to be posting trash like "it's over" all over the forums. When half the people here start spewing that crap, I'm going to fight back damnit.

qft.


How many people in 08' got all butt hurt and left the entire movement because of crap like that.

[WyoLiberty]

http://www.infowarriorsunited.com/ron-paul-doubles-vote-tally-captures-equal-number-of-delegates-as-romney-andsantorum/

Last night was a huge success.

[tropicangela]

Ron Paul Campaign Celebrates Great Victory at Iowa Caucus

Paul makes history in first-in-nation voting state

LAKE JACKSON, Texas – The Ron Paul 2012 Presidential campaign is celebrating a great victory with its strong top-three finish at the Iowa Caucus. Below please find comments from Ron Paul 2012 National Campaign Chairman Jesse Benton:

“The Ron Paul campaign is celebrating a great victory tonight.

“There were three tickets out of Iowa, and Ron Paul earned one of them.

“One of the three tickets, the one belonging to Rick Santorum, is a dead-end due to Santorum’s weak fundraising and lack of national campaign organization.

“This is now a two way race between establishment candidate Mitt Romney and the candidate for real change, Ron Paul.

“Ron Paul has a top notch national organization, tremendous fundraising prowess, and unequaled enthusiasm among his volunteers and supporters.

“Dr. Paul has taken the first step towards earning the delegates it will take to be the GOP nominee and is the only candidate not named Mitt Romney with the ability to do so.

“Ron Paul is now off to New Hampshire, South Carolina, Louisiana, Nevada, Maine, North Dakota, Washington, Colorado, and beyond.

“See you on the campaign trail.”

http://www.ronpaul2012.com/2012/01/04/ron-paul-campaign-celebrates-great-victory-at-iowa-caucus/

[Lucille]

...