Remember your Obama lover friends?

[Seantzizl]

I just pulled this off my myspace from four years ago.

http://www.myspace.com/seantzizl/blog/446567956

Last election cycle, the biggest problem I had while trying to convince other people to vote for Ron Paul, was their blind obsession with Obama, and their ferverent belief that Obama would solve all the problems that Bush created. My words were met with vicious attacks on my own character, from people that were supposed to be my friends. They didn't want to hear it four years ago, and I wonder if they are listening now. How many times are we (libertarians) going to be able to say "I told you so", before liberals and 'conservatives alike start listening.

[EuRa]

lol wow. Nice insight all those years ago. I mean, all you did was use logic and common sense, but that's pretty damn big in the USA.

[Tyler_Durden]

Did you follow Josh's advice?:

Joshua Olson
"someone is on the negative train to downsville. Go back to school and get your degree, stop getting drunk every week, your a smart kid Sean, get your life out of the trash can."

lol

[ElizabethR]

My closest group of friends are all very liberal, and now I don't want to even hang out with them because they are so ignorant. They are nice people and want things like "free" education and "free" health care because they think everyone deserves it, but even when I present them with sound economic proof that nothing is "free" and anything that the government gets involved with becomes more expensive and of lower quality, they still say they want the "free" things. I can't handle it anymore, but I don't want to not hang out with my friends because of their failure to understand sound economics. :(

[blazeKing]

They believe they are owed free things because the 1% are wealthy. I tell them that the mass wealth inequality favoring the rich occurred and started AFTER Johnson's "Great Society". I show them the graphs. They believe doing more of the same or doubling down will somehow help redistribute money from the rich to the rest. I tell them big government is the best thing for ruthless corporations because they can buy out or get regulatory positions and snuff out small businesses. I get "nah man, we need more regulations on the 1%" .... ahhh or "If we just taxed the 1% we'd fix everything". I say "You do know they can just leave in this globalized, internet world and set up shop somewhere where taxes are low and then hire over there". They go "Well just stop them from leaving". Sigh.

[icecap]

After looking at this Joshua Olson character's page

Who I'd like to meet:
Sakuraba, bigby wolf, magneto, jet li, barack obama

and one of his Top Friends is Barack Obama :rolleyes:


Incredible how people can worship a man who has no issue with eroding your personal liberties and sending you to die for Israel.

[cjm]

My closest group of friends are all very liberal, and now I don't want to even hang out with them because they are so ignorant. They are nice people and want things like "free" education and "free" health care because they think everyone deserves it, but even when I present them with sound economic proof that nothing is "free" and anything that the government gets involved with becomes more expensive and of lower quality, they still say they want the "free" things. I can't handle it anymore, but I don't want to not hang out with my friends because of their failure to understand sound economics. :(

I have found that life is a bit more enjoyable when I try to turn problems into opportunities. I'm not always successful in this and I allow myself to get frustrated at times too. When my liberal friends talk about collectivist solutions to perceived problems, I try to see that as an opportunity to make a case for free markets and practice my argumentation skills. Sometimes I argue in support of an explicit principle like self-ownership or non-aggression, but usually I like using the Socratic method. The Socratic method forces the other person to rationalize his position, doesn't require in-depth knowledge of an issue, and it keeps the conversation less confrontational (I'm just asking a few questions out of curiosity, right?). I avoid arguments with statistics since you can never win those. People will believe whatever numbers they want to believe, but I'll sometimes go Socratic on them just to see how far I can get:

(hypothetical conversation)
Friend: We need universal healthcare because XX% of poor kids die every second for lack of insurance.
Me: What percentage is acceptable?
Friend: 0% of course!
Me: How much would it cost to achieve that level of coverage?
Friend: XX skrillion dollars
Me: Where will that money come from?
Friend: Taxing the rich and the corporations!
Me: What tax rates are necessary to raise XX skrillion dollars from the rich and corporations?
Friend: Uhh, I'm not sure....

So at some point, the friend will have to say "I don't know" to one of these questions and you can leave him with something to ponder. "What tax rate do you think corporations will be willing to pay for universal health care? Are you sure your proposed rates are less than the acceptable rate?" Again, nobody wins these arguments but you can walk away knowing that you established that the friend hasn't thought everything through and maybe he is less certain of his position after your conversation.

Anyway, the point of all this is to say you have an opportunity to practice your arguments in support of free markets and other liberty topics. I'm no expert at persuasion or debating, but I can say that my liberal friends no longer bring up politics when I'm around and a couple of them have even come around to support Ron Paul.

Congratulations on your opportunity!