Court OKs Barring High IQs for Cops

[CCTelander]

Not that this will come as a shock to most people here, but it's nice to have one's suspicions validated from time to time. If this wasn't so sickening, it might actually be funny.


Court OKs Barring High IQs for Cops
N E W L O N D O N, Conn., Sept. 8

A man whose bid to become a police officer was rejected after he scored too high on an intelligence test has lost an appeal in his federal lawsuit against the city.

The 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in New York upheld a lower court’s decision that the city did not discriminate against Robert Jordan because the same standards were applied to everyone who took the test.

“This kind of puts an official face on discrimination in America against people of a certain class,” Jordan said today from his Waterford home. “I maintain you have no more control over your basic intelligence than your eye color or your gender or anything else.”


Read the rest here:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=95836&page=1#.TwDC2TXV2rk

[Anti Federalist]

Can't have anybody capable of critical thinking in the ranks of the enforcer class, now can we?

Follow orders without question or hesitation.

Yup...

[CCTelander]

Can't have anybody capable of critical thinking in the ranks of the enforcer class, now can we?

Follow orders without question or hesitation.

Yup...


Exactly.

[Agorism]

Couldn't he retake it and score lower?

Low people are allowed to retake it I bet.

[Philhelm]

This is really all you need to know about law enforcement. I wonder what "too high" is though.

[Danke]

http://tucsoncitizen.com/morgue/files/2008/12/l105227-100.jpg
http://fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/napolitano.jpg

[PatriotOne]

Interesting comment to article......

WRH_MRivero3:08 PM EST
Jan 01, 2012We had a caller into my talk radio show who in an act of economic desperation tried to get a job at TSA and was rejected for the same reason; he scored too high on the IQ test.From this we may conclude we have a government of the idiots, by the idiots, and for the idiots, which may explain why they cannot see that fatal design flaw in the private central banking model, nor do they wish to risk hiring anyone clever enough to point it out.

[AFPVet]

This is really all you need to know about law enforcement. I wonder what "too high" is though.

In other words, if you were able to get into college, that's too high. AF is correct... they don't want cops to be able to think critically... only follow orders.

[Kluge]

uhhhhhhhhhhh.... okay, so what's the official explanation for wanting to keep out people of above-average intelligence?

[PatriotOne]

uhhhhhhhhhhh.... okay, so what's the official explanation for wanting to keep out people of above-average intelligence?

Boredom on the job.

[heavenlyboy34]

private employers aren't allowed to administer IQ tests (too "discriminatory")...why do the cops get to do it?

[Kluge]

Boredom on the job.
Oh. So they'd consider it on par with being overqualified? If they aren't stimulated and compensated for their potential, they'll probably leave soon?

That may be reasonable. It may seem more reasonable if they tried to rely more on personality analysis, though, like so many other employers and placement agencies do.

[Anti Federalist]

private employers aren't allowed to administer IQ tests (too "discriminatory")...why do the cops get to do it?

Contempt of cop.

Reported.

[Cowlesy]

Boredom on the job.

You know what the irony is? Ever since he failed the test, the guy has been a Prison Guard.

[Cowlesy]

Handicapper General, for your viewing pleasure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpQa8XQG8wU

I think this is actually a very serious ruling. While almost every other sort of discrimination is banned by the State, you CAN discriminate against those with higher intelligence. It's a "rational policy" according to the court.

[Philhelm]

Boredom on the job.

What's boring about going around blasting things with your gat, making young women cry, and not being accountable for anything you do?

[CCTelander]

private employers aren't allowed to administer IQ tests (too "discriminatory")...why do the cops get to do it?


Since when is government subject to the same laws the private sector is?

Remember, all animals are equal, but some are a little more equal than others.

[anaconda]

I used to work with a fellow that was quite smart and became a cop after double majoring in Business and Japanese. He quickly worked his way up to homicide detective.

[AGRP]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGf9lmtcWvY

[SpicyTurkey]

Great. Now they're stupider than normal. They'll shoot first, and drool later.

[heavenlyboy34]

Great. Now they're stupider than normal. They'll shoot first, and drool later.
OMG, lolz! :D

[speciallyblend]

I know exactly why they didn't hire him. When folks are are over qualified. The first thought for an employer is they will not stay long. Over qualified employees are a waste of time and resources for an employer. you hire them,train them and then they leave in less then 6 months. If your over qualified and you did not tonedown your resume.Then odds are you might not get the job. This is common sense. Being over qualified can work against you. If you are over qualified you should at least have the COMMON SENSE to tone down your resume and if you have to miss a few ?'s. If i was an employer at a front desk hotel or a police officer. If you are that over qualified i would pass you up to since as an employer it would be a waste to invest money into training to have you leave and that is exactly what over qualified people do. My experience is from being a restaurant manager and retail and front desk manager! bottom line don't over qualify yourself or odds are you will be passed up depending on training costs and the fact that many leave so it is a waste of the employers time and money to have to keep rehiring these folks. There comes a time when you can oversell yourself and that is your fault not the employer. I have to back the police and employer up on that point. As for IQ tests.I really do not see how that matters? To not hire someone over an IQ score is kinda over the top for sure but i do understand why folks will not hire an over qualified job seeker. ps obviously if they used his iq score against him that would be wrong!

[heavenlyboy34]

Contempt of cop.

Reported.
Good to see the thought police's helpers are always on the job.

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

In other words, if you were able to get into college, that's too high. AF is correct... they don't want cops to be able to think critically... only follow orders. I was under the impression you needed at least 2 years of college to even be considered for the job.

[devil21]

I know exactly why they didn't hire him. When folks are are over qualified. The first thought for an employer is they will not stay long. Over qualified employees are a waste of time and resources for an employer. you hire them,train them and then they leave in less then 6 months. If your over qualified and you did not tonedown your resume.Then odds are you might not get the job. This is common sense. Being over qualified can work against you. If you are over qualified you should at least have the COMMON SENSE to tone down your resume and if you have to miss a few ?'s. If i was an employer at a front desk hotel or a police officer. If you are that over qualified i would pass you up to since as an employer it would be a waste to invest money into training to have you leave and that is exactly what over qualified people do. My experience is from being a restaurant manager and retail and front desk manager! bottom line don't over qualify yourself or odds are you will be passed up depending on training costs and the fact that many leave so it is a waste of the employers time and money to have to keep rehiring these folks. There comes a time when you can oversell yourself and that is your fault not the employer. I have to back the police and employer up on that point. As for IQ tests.I really do not see how that matters? To not hire someone over an IQ score is kinda over the top for sure but i do understand why folks will not hire an over qualified job seeker. ps obviously if they used his iq score against him that would be wrong!

So what you're saying is that someone that's smart is just too smart for police work. The police just want to hire dullards. "Overqualified" in the job world tends to mean your resume, experience and credentials are too advanced for the job you're currently applying for and then you would likely switch jobs when a better opportunity arises. That's very different than simply saying someone is too smart for a job.

[enoch150]

I remember when this was in the news. I can't believe it's been 15 years.

I know a guy who failed the physical exam to become a cop 7 times. He eventually got in because his last name. Somewhere in his past he had a native American ancestor. That's all it takes.

[speciallyblend]

So what you're saying is that someone that's smart is just too smart for police work. The police just want to hire dullards. "Overqualified" in the job world tends to mean your resume, experience and credentials are too advanced for the job you're currently applying for and then you would likely switch jobs when a better opportunity arises. That's very different than simply saying someone is too smart for a job.

I actually said what you did in my post at the end.

I said employers do not like to hire over qualified people because they usually leave their jobs. It boils down to cost to employer. I also explained that an iq test should not be why but if a person is over qualified.They are more likely not to get the job!

[devil21]

obviously you didn't read my post or you would get my point! I said employers do not like to hire over qualified people because they usually leave their jobs, pretty damn simple point i made. If you have ever run a business or owned a business. You would know it cost money to train an employee that will leave you in weeks or a few months . so yes any common sense employer would not want to hire an over qualified candidate! It boils down to cost to employer.

I read your post. The term over qualified means someone that has too much experience or too high credentials for the job being applied for, not simply for being too intelligent. Your post talks about training and all manner of things unrelated to the actual reason the guy wasn't hired to be a cop. He wasn't hired, because he's just too smart to be a blind follower of orders. That's not "over qualified" for the job.

[speciallyblend]

I read your post. The term over qualified means someone that has too much experience or too high credentials for the job being applied for, not simply for being too intelligent. Your post talks about training and all manner of things unrelated to the actual reason the guy wasn't hired to be a cop. He wasn't hired, because he's just too smart to be a blind follower of orders. That's not "over qualified" for the job.

at the end of my post i said he shouldn't be judged on his iq score. Thst is what i got out of my ps ps obviously if they used his iq score against him that would be wrong!

[speciallyblend]

I read your post. The term over qualified means someone that has too much experience or too high credentials for the job being applied for, not simply for being too intelligent. Your post talks about training and all manner of things unrelated to the actual reason the guy wasn't hired to be a cop. He wasn't hired, because he's just too smart to be a blind follower of orders. That's not "over qualified" for the job.

ps ps obviously if they used his iq score against him that would be wrong! I said that clearly at the end of my post

[DamianTV]

Not that this will come as a shock to most people here, but it's nice to have one's suspicions validated from time to time. If this wasn't so sickening, it might actually be funny.

Read the rest here:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=95836&page=1#.TwDC2TXV2rk

Agree.


The 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in New York upheld a lower court’s decision that the city did not discriminate against Robert Jordan because the same standards were applied to everyone who took the test.


Naa, they're not discriminating because everyone took the test, they are just discriminating against smart people. The last thing they want is a Cop that is capable of Critical Thinking.

[Freedom 4 all]

Sooo many things wrong with this, but even just from a psychometric standpoint it's dumb. A) The Stanford-Binet isn't designed to measure high intelligence, only risk of failure. B) 125 isn't even that high. I have a 137 and wouldn't consider myself "too smart" to do anything. Hell, I worked as a trucker and NOTHING is more boring than that.

[CCTelander]

The last thing they want is a Cop that is capable of Critical Thinking.


You don't have to be smart to bust the skulls of innocent people, or pepper spray the shit out of them. Just willing to follow orders without question.

[AGRP]

A top secret picture of an ideal officer emerges:

http://memberfiles.freewebs.com/85/12/40731285/photos/FUNNY/monkey-with-a-gun.jpg

[AFPVet]

I was under the impression you needed at least 2 years of college to even be considered for the job.

I don't know what state you're looking at, but here, you don't need a degree to become a beat cop. Now they might want you to have an associates for state investigative divisions (or a bachelors for the feds), but not for what we are talking about.

[CCTelander]

A top secret picture of an ideal officer emerges:

http://memberfiles.freewebs.com/85/12/40731285/photos/FUNNY/monkey-with-a-gun.jpg


I think you're giving them WAY too much credit. Chimps are actually pretty intelligent.

[heavenlyboy34]

I think you're giving them WAY too much credit. Chimps are actually pretty intelligent. LOLZ! :D

[PaulConventionWV]

I know exactly why they didn't hire him. When folks are are over qualified. The first thought for an employer is they will not stay long. Over qualified employees are a waste of time and resources for an employer. you hire them,train them and then they leave in less then 6 months. If your over qualified and you did not tonedown your resume.Then odds are you might not get the job. This is common sense. Being over qualified can work against you. If you are over qualified you should at least have the COMMON SENSE to tone down your resume and if you have to miss a few ?'s. If i was an employer at a front desk hotel or a police officer. If you are that over qualified i would pass you up to since as an employer it would be a waste to invest money into training to have you leave and that is exactly what over qualified people do. My experience is from being a restaurant manager and retail and front desk manager! bottom line don't over qualify yourself or odds are you will be passed up depending on training costs and the fact that many leave so it is a waste of the employers time and money to have to keep rehiring these folks. There comes a time when you can oversell yourself and that is your fault not the employer. I have to back the police and employer up on that point. As for IQ tests.I really do not see how that matters? To not hire someone over an IQ score is kinda over the top for sure but i do understand why folks will not hire an over qualified job seeker. ps obviously if they used his iq score against him that would be wrong!

Having a high IQ makes you overqualified? So I guess experience and skill doesn't really matter, then?

[PaulConventionWV]

I actually said what you did in my post at the end.

I said employers do not like to hire over qualified people because they usually leave their jobs. It boils down to cost to employer. I also explained that an iq test should not be why but if a person is over qualified.They are more likely not to get the job!

We're not talking about being over-qualified. We're talking about being too smart. There's a big difference.

[CCTelander]

bump

[torchbearer]

Court OKs Barring High IQs for Cops

I didn't think that was their problem to begin with.

[AGRP]

Master Blaster...the perfect cop:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_4pmUNQE7llI/SnzFZQEwF8I/AAAAAAAAKA8/7Pjyutb7Vmc/s400/snapshot20090807162314.jpg

Seriously, this guy is literally retarded:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGf9lmtcWvY

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

I used to work with a fellow that was quite smart and became a cop after double majoring in Business and Japanese. He quickly worked his way up to homicide detective.


Those are the people I respect. I wanted to be a forensic scientist at one point, but that was around the time the show COPS came on and just decided I couldn't hang around with those people without being a bigmouth about their bullshit. (knowing I'd eventually be fired anyway for such.)

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

I didn't think that was their problem to begin with.

They purposely made it their problem and then got forced to be truthful about it.

[angelatc]

Having a high IQ makes you overqualified? So I guess experience and skill doesn't really matter, then?

Not to mention enthusiasm. My older son wanted to be a cop in the worst way. He's really smart, but kind of lazy. That would make him a decent detective, one would think.

All in all this might work in our favor. Stupid cops are easier to avoid with than the smart ones.

(My son no longer wants to be a cop. Youtube etc has taught him well.)

[Carson]

That is how I was coached when I was young. If you wanted a civil service job you didn't want to do to good on the test. At the time the theory was that when they hired people that tested high, they got bored with the job sooner and moved on.

[RickyJ]

Actually this is a blessing in disguise. It means that it will be much easier to defeat the police given that many in the general populace will have an advantage over them when it comes to strategy. But of course this won't stop the smart ones from playing dumb and still getting on the police department. However smart cops spending all their time with average to below average people will make them less sharp and inevitably lower their intelligence as well. I don't see this as a bad thing. The elite think they are wise with such requirements, they are proving they aren't particularly that smart either.

[PaulConventionWV]

Not that this will come as a shock to most people here, but it's nice to have one's suspicions validated from time to time. If this wasn't so sickening, it might actually be funny.




Read the rest here:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=95836&page=1#.TwDC2TXV2rk

So, what they're saying is, since they applied the standard to everyone else, it's okay? That's the most ludicrous argument I've ever heard.

Is it okay to discriminate based on how black you are, as long as the same standards apply to everyone else, black or white? That is absurd in and of itself. If they discriminate against you because you're intelligent, it doesn't make it okay because nobody else who is intelligent would get in either. That's textbook discrimination.

Regardless, however, I'm glad he didn't get into the police force because it's not an honorable profession. It's the easy way out.

Can't find a real profession? Become a police officer. You earn a great salary just by being a bully, and you get full immunity from the law. Who wouldn't want that? I have to admit, sometimes I'm tempted to try it out, although I know I never would. Hell, I could more than double my salary overnight if I went that route, and the added benefit of never having a speeding ticket or facing legal consequences for my actions ever again sounds very appealing. However, I am above that, and others need to rise above it, too. They need to really know what they're doing before they sign up for something like this. It's nasty and evil, but man will you feel powerful doing it.

[PaulConventionWV]

You know what the irony is? Ever since he failed the test, the guy has been a Prison Guard.

How is that ironic?

[Origanalist]

http://tucsoncitizen.com/morgue/files/2008/12/l105227-100.jpg
http://fellowshipofminds.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/napolitano.jpg

Laughed out loud.

Wait a minute...................

[Danke]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGf9lmtcWvY

Um, he is traversing a border. Let me guess, his motor vehicle is also registered with the state. This is not a winning argument. Idiots.

[Kluge]

I think they're related.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_orkXxp0bhEA/S0Z0LvuysDI/AAAAAAAAZbo/JP_Vy1mpHG0/s400/100107-janet-reno-janet-napolitano.jpg

[Danke]

I think they're related.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_orkXxp0bhEA/S0Z0LvuysDI/AAAAAAAAZbo/JP_Vy1mpHG0/s400/100107-janet-reno-janet-napolitano.jpg

Thanks, now I'm horny.

[CCTelander]

///

[CCTelander]

Bump for relevance to another thread.

[DamianTV]

Can't have anybody capable of critical thinking in the ranks of the enforcer class, now can we?

Follow orders without question or hesitation.

Yup...

The true sign of Intelligence is the ability to entertain an idea without either blindly accepting or blindly rejecting it. The major prerequisite of Obedience is that Orders are NOT Questioned, EVER. IQ has very little to do with it, but those with higher IQs tend to try to entertain ideas more than those with low IQs.

[devil21]

I think they're related.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_orkXxp0bhEA/S0Z0LvuysDI/AAAAAAAAZbo/JP_Vy1mpHG0/s400/100107-janet-reno-janet-napolitano.jpg

Sorta like Comey and Ashcroft? Hmm...

[RandallFan]

Maybe its fear. Smarter people are not going to do stupid things & risk their lives in certain ways chasing or cornering a suspect.

Is it different for firefighters? They actually need higher iq's because you don't want them killing themselves in fruitless blazing fires?

[GunnyFreedom]

Maybe its fear. Smarter people are not going to do stupid things & risk their lives in certain ways chasing or cornering a suspect.

Is it different for firefighters? They actually need higher iq's because you don't want them killing themselves in fruitless blazing fires?

There is no IQ cap for the military and we don't seem to have a problem storming machine gun nests.

[RonPaulMall]

We're not talking about being over-qualified. We're talking about being too smart. There's a big difference.

Not in this case. Intelligence is one of the qualifications. Score too low, and they don't want you because you lack the minimum qualification for intelligence to do the job. His problem was not that he didn't meet the minimum qualification score on the test, but that he exceeded it by so much. So yes, he was overqualified.

But a person as smart as he is should know that he's applying for a police job, not an engineering job at Google, and should have intentionally gotten some answers wrong on purpose.

[fisharmor]

That is how I was coached when I was young. If you wanted a civil service job you didn't want to do to good on the test. At the time the theory was that when they hired people that tested high, they got bored with the job sooner and moved on.

And this is precisely what is in the original article.
The police don't want people who are too smart because they will get bored and move on.
This whole thread is reading something into this which I'm not sure exists.

We're not talking about a single opponent here. It's an entire system. And when that system says something, we have a choice: either believe it means what it means at face value, or become a tinfoil-hat-wearing conspiracy theorist.

Is it possible that every police department is conspiring to keep intelligent people out because they want them not to question orders?
Absolutely not. Following orders without question is easy. They do it the same way the military does: create camaraderie in the ranks, and tell those ranks if they ever disobey orders they'll be out of the group, and they'll make it more difficult to find work elsewhere.
You don't need a massive conspiracy in place to do that.

Of course this cuts a different way, too. If any of you are still confused as to the nature of police, you just need to read the official releases from them every time they gun down a 105 year old WWII vet, or kill a dog, or beat up a homeless guy.

They followed official procedure. No problem with the officer(s) conduct.

They've said themselves, ad nauseum at this point, that the entire point of the job is to beat up homeless guys and murder old people and dogs and get away with it.

We need to stop talking about how stupid the people doing it are, and start talking about how stupid the people are who can't see that this is the sum of what police are for.

[PaulConventionWV]

Not in this case. Intelligence is one of the qualifications. Score too low, and they don't want you because you lack the minimum qualification for intelligence to do the job. His problem was not that he didn't meet the minimum qualification score on the test, but that he exceeded it by so much. So yes, he was overqualified.

But a person as smart as he is should know that he's applying for a police job, not an engineering job at Google, and should have intentionally gotten some answers wrong on purpose.

If intelligence is one of the qualifications for cop, then what job isn't it a qualification for? What do you mean "In this case"? According to your reasoning, intelligence is a qualification for any job. Being over-qualified means you have a lot on your resume, and very rarely do people put their IQ on their resume unless they really don't want to get the job.

[CCTelander]

Bump for current relevance.