PDA

View Full Version : United or Manipulated?




LibertyOrDeath1776
12-31-2011, 02:02 PM
Gary Johnson and Rand Paul are the closest thing we are going to get to Ron Paul in the future. I really disagree with people who think we cannot support Gary because of one or two issues we don't share together. We are up against the democratic, republican, and corporate media machines. This is really not the time to be acting like a purist and eliminating anyone who is not an absolute clone of Ron Paul. If Ron Paul does not win the Republican nomination and he does not run 3rd party it does not help us in any way, shape, or form to simply write Ron Paul in and hand the election to Obama. If however Ron chose to accept a VP nomination from Gary Johnson then we should all be supporting Gary Johnson.

This movement is about more than one person. If we act as purists we are never going to get anywhere. We need to play our hand strategically and watch what happens as the cards are played out over the coming months. We have too many enemies not to accept allies simply because they agree with us on only 90% of the issues. Ron Paul will always be my first choice but I will do what Ron asks. If that includes voting for someone that shares 90% of what Ron believes in then I will do that.

Gary Johnson has been nothing but courteous toward Ron Paul the entire election process. There is no doubt that he will play a major part in this movement in the coming decade. Whatever the outcome of this election is, we all need to look at the big picture. We want someone in office that supports this movement. We need to be flexible or we will fail in the end.

Many of Gary Johnson's supporters in this election cycle feel exactly the way those of us who supported Dr. Paul in the last election cycle felt. Totally disrespected, marginalized, and made to feel as if they and their candidate do not matter. We, especially those of us who were here for the 2008 election cycle should remember how we felt during that time and show sympathy and compassion toward Gary Johnson and his supporters. They are our closest allies in this fight and burning that bridge over one or two issues that he happens to not agree with Ron Paul on is about as stupid a move as a movement could make.

I urge anyone who supports Ron Paul to not hold anyone else up to the standards that Dr. Paul holds. Everyone else will come up short and if you take that mindset you will always be disappointed.

Braveheart is a great movie based on historical events that we could all learn a lesson from. In Braveheart the clans of Scotland were constantly fighting each other over stupid and relatively insignificant issues. It was precisely because of their inability to recognize how much they had in common with each other and how little differences between them they really had that allowed the English to dominate them. It wasn't until William Wallace came along and showed them that the English were the true enemies and that the few differences each clan had with each other were insignificant that they were able to come together and fight for their independence.

Today supporters of Gary Johnson and Ron Paul are just like those clans in Scotland. Acting like purists and choosing to fight over the few differences we have with each other will keep us fractured and weak. Ron Paul is like our William Wallace. We have to realize that we will never agree with each other on every issue but that we have far more in common than we have differences. The choice is ours though. Will we choose to set the few differences aside and fight the English (Corporate Media, Democrat and Republican Machines) or will we let our petty differences keep us divided and allow the English another 4 years to destroy our nation.

JakeH
12-31-2011, 02:10 PM
Well put. I support anybody that is a part of the liberty movement and would vote for Governor Johnson if the situation called for it.

tremendoustie
12-31-2011, 02:22 PM
Yep, I agree, and will support GJ in the general in the event that RP does not win the primary.

This is premature, but win or lose, after the election I'd like to put together a site that lists truly pro-liberty candidates for local, state, and federal office, and can coordinate support. I'd probably have a questionnaire for candidates, to rank their commitment to pro-freedom principles.

LibertyOrDeath1776
12-31-2011, 02:27 PM
Great idea. It is very important that we create coalitions within this movement with every single person running for office in the future that shares our main goals. The internet will be the glue that binds this movement allowing it to grow at a healthy pace with each passing year.

We have already proven that the media is now irrelevant and that through the internet we can spread our message and get the truth out regardless of how many lies are created to break us down.


Yep, I agree, and will support GJ in the general in the event that RP does not win the primary.

This is premature, but win or lose, after the election I'd like to put together a site that lists truly pro-liberty candidates for local, state, and federal office, and can coordinate support. I'd probably have a questionnaire for candidates, to rank their commitment to pro-freedom principles.

vita3
12-31-2011, 02:29 PM
Great post.

But, let's WIN Iowa!

Travlyr
12-31-2011, 02:32 PM
I cannot support anyone who does not advocate sound money. Audit then End The Fed and let people live free. Is Gary Johnson on board with that issue?

goldpants
12-31-2011, 02:33 PM
Count me in, this is about the liberty movement.

sailingaway
12-31-2011, 02:45 PM
I'm not about 'this movement' I'm about specific principles Ron Paul champions and Gary Johnson does not.

Oukvekpwv
12-31-2011, 02:50 PM
Ron will win the nomination.. or what are we working for? Is Ron's campaign and our efforts really for GJ because we are to assume Romney or someone will win over Ron? This is a bit off putting to me tbh.. Im all for supporting others in the liberty movement but it goes both ways and it seems GJ/ supporters are just waiting for us to come around.. correct me if I'm wrong.. or why would he be running against Ron to be president at all which is what he is currently doing..

Oukvekpwv
12-31-2011, 02:54 PM
I'm not about 'this movement' I'm about specific principles Ron Paul champions and Gary Johnson does not.

+1

Anti Federalist
12-31-2011, 03:01 PM
I urge anyone who supports Ron Paul to not hold anyone else up to the standards that Dr. Paul holds. Everyone else will come up short and if you take that mindset you will always be disappointed.

Why?

RP is nothing but a man, yet he meets those high standards.

How much better we would all be if we held ourselves to the same standards.

And I'm as guilty as the next for not doing so.

LibertyOrDeath1776
12-31-2011, 03:04 PM
Ron will win the nomination.. or what are we working for? Is Ron's campaign and our efforts really for GJ because we are to assume Romney or someone will win over Ron? This is a bit off putting to me tbh.. Im all for supporting others in the liberty movement but it goes both ways and it seems GJ/ supporters are just waiting for us to come around.. correct me if I'm wrong.. or why would he be running against Ron to be president at all which is what he is currently doing..

We are working toward Ron Paul becoming president. But we have to take everything that is happening into context. Ron Paul is the catalyst for a movement but the movement itself is beyond Ron Paul. This movement will go on long after Ron Paul is gone. The goal of it should be to bring together as many people as possible who are fighting for the majority of the things we believe in. Gary Johnson's supporters believe what we do for the most part. Gary may be running as the libertarian candidate but that does not make us his enemy and it does not make him against us. If we take an absolutist viewpoint of this situation then one would call Gary the enemy. Yet if you approach the same situation with an open mind you will see that what Gary Johnson is actually doing is bringing more people to this movement. If you look in the opposing candidates section you will see another user who has posted an article showing Gary Johnson has told his supporters to vote for Ron Paul in the Iowa Caucus.

If we keep an open mind it is easy to see that what Gary Johnson is doing is trying to bring more people to the liberty movement and from all the things which have occurred up to this point one could hypothesize with a great deal of accuracy that Gary Johnson has actually taken the libertarian nomination to prevent another libertarian from being nominated that might not be willing to throw his support behind Ron Paul.

Think about this scenario. Gary Johnson removes himself completely from the race. Another libertarian candidate gets the nomination. This candidate cares more about himself than the movement. This candidate does not tell his supporters to vote for anyone but himself. He collects 5% of the vote and keeps those supporters for himself. This directly damages Ron Paul.

Now think about the scenario playing out. We have already seen Gary Johnson in the debates say Ron Paul is the only candidate that he would pick as his VP. Now Gary Johnson is going out and telling his supporters to vote for Ron Paul in the Iowa Caucus. What appears to have happened is that Gary Johnson has made a strategic decision to secure the libertarian nomination to prevent another libertarian candidate from taking the nomination and damaging Ron Paul. Everything Gary Johnson has done up to this point has benefited Ron Paul in some way. We need to call a spade a spade. Gary Johnson's supporters are very close to our supporters and his 5% or so being thrown behind Ron Paul could put us over the top.

Travlyr
12-31-2011, 03:24 PM
“People fight the gold standard,” said Ludwig von Mises, “because they want to substitute national autarky for free trade, war for peace, totalitarian government omnipotence for liberty.” It is no coincidence that the nineteenth century, a time of gold coin standards for the most part, was an era of peace. Nor is it a coincidence that the twentieth century combines wars with paper money.

Everyone who believes in freedom must work diligently for sound money, fully redeemable. Nothing else is compatible with the humanitarian goals of peace and prosperity." -- Ron Paul

When Gary Johnson, or any other politician, proves he/she is working diligently for sound money, fully redeemable, then he/she gets my vote and money.

Liberty vs. Tyranny

Is he saying that? If so, link please.

asurfaholic
12-31-2011, 03:45 PM
My issue is war - does GJ want to bring the troops home? Will GJ fight preemptive wars?

bluesc
12-31-2011, 03:46 PM
My issue is war - does GJ want to bring the troops home? Will GJ fight preemptive wars?

He likes "humanitarian" wars.

asurfaholic
12-31-2011, 03:50 PM
He likes "humanitarian" wars.

Oh, so kill people before their own people kill them... like libya?

Sorry OP, your post was beautiful, and very well put. It even gave me shivers, but one thing I can never support is anyone who supports needless wars. Also, being pro life is important. I would really need to see improvement in this area before I can support him.

Anti Federalist
12-31-2011, 03:55 PM
Oh, so kill people before their own people kill them... like libya?

Sorry OP, your post was beautiful, and very well put. It even gave me shivers, but one thing I can never support is anyone who supports needless wars. Also, being pro life is important. I would really need to see improvement in this area before I can support him.

That.

It's very simple:

1 - The concept of "pre emptive" war, and total military dominance of the planet by the US must end.

2 - The brakes must be put on the police state at home.

3 - The monetary and fiscal reforms needed to at least start an economic revival must begin.

bluesc
12-31-2011, 03:57 PM
3 - The monetary and fiscal reforms needed to at least start an economic revival must begin.

Oh, Johnson likes the federal reserve too. From his campaign site:


Restrict Federal Reserve policy to maintaining price stability, not bailing out financial firms or propping up the housing sector.

rambone
01-01-2012, 03:34 AM
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/10_04/braveheartDM2610_468x309.jpg