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Vergil
12-28-2011, 04:27 PM
Hello, I was wanting to know what Ron Paul has said about illegal immigration, and what he would do about it. I have heard his views on several different subjects, but not this one. Because he strongly follows the constitution, would he have a problem if the 14th amendment was changed? Specifically:

"Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws"

If the children of illegal immigrants weren't granted citizenship, there wouldn't be so many illegal immigrants crossing our border. Also, would Ron Paul increase the deportations of illegal immigrants? I know this is kinda of a touchy issue, but I think it is an important one. Thanks for any reply.

bluesc
12-28-2011, 04:31 PM
While I'm too busy to answer this right now (I will definitely try to soon) I want to warn people before they respond to ONLY REPRESENT RON'S VIEWS. Seriously.

I'll copy and paste some quickly.

From his campaign website:


A nation without borders is no nation at all.

It just doesn’t make sense to fight terrorists abroad while leaving our front door unlocked.

Unfortunately, for far too long, neither major political party has had the courage to do what is necessary to tackle the problem.

Instead, we’re presented with so-called “solutions” that involve amnesty proposals or further restricting Americans’ civil liberties through programs like REAL ID.

Ron Paul opposes both of these schemes and believes they will only make illegal immigration and the problems associated with it worse. He has been proud to see states exercising their Tenth Amendment rights and protecting their citizens by refusing to comply with the unconstitutional REAL ID law.

While the federal government neglects its constitutional responsibility to protect our borders, it continues to push mandates on the states to provide free education and medical care to illegal immigrants at a time when the states are drowning in debt. This must not be tolerated any longer.

Like most Americans, Ron Paul also understands just how valuable legal immigration is to our country.

Immigrants who want to work hard, obey our laws, and live the American Dream have always been great assets.


If elected President, Ron Paul will work to implement the following common sense reforms:

* Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

* No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

* Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

* End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.

* Protect Lawful Immigrants – As President, Ron Paul will encourage legal immigration by streamlining the entry process without rewarding lawbreakers.

As long as our borders remain wide open, the security and safety of the American people are at stake.

As President, Ron Paul will address immigration by fighting for effective solutions that protect our nation, uphold the rule of law, and respect every American citizen’s civil liberties.

Zippyjuan
12-29-2011, 12:42 PM
Hello, I was wanting to know what Ron Paul has said about illegal immigration, and what he would do about it. I have heard his views on several different subjects, but not this one. Because he strongly follows the constitution, would he have a problem if the 14th amendment was changed? Specifically:

"Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws"

If the children of illegal immigrants weren't granted citizenship, there wouldn't be so many illegal immigrants crossing our border. Also, would Ron Paul increase the deportations of illegal immigrants? I know this is kinda of a touchy issue, but I think it is an important one. Thanks for any reply.

Having babies is not a major reason people are in the US illegally. Welfare is also not a major lure. Most come for jobs or freedoms they don't find in their own country. This can be easily shown by noting that the estimated number of illegals in the country declined by two million during the first two years of the current economic crisis. And actually 40% of those here illegally entered the country on a legal basis- on tourist, student, work or other visas- and overstayed them.

http://theweek.com/article/index/221485/the-dramatic-decline-in-illegal-immigration-3-theories

posted on November 17, 2011, at 6:10 AM

Politicians have long engaged in bitter debates over how to stop illegal immigration. But new data from the U.S. and Mexico suggest the problem may be fading away on its own, at least temporarily. Mexican census figures show that net migration to the U.S. border is nearly zero, as fewer Mexicans make the trip north and many who have crossed the border return to Mexico. And the U.S. Border Patrol arrested only 304,755 people trying to cross into the Southwest without papers in the 11 months that ended in August, down from a peak of 1.6 million in 2000. What's behind the "dramatic" change? Here, three theories:


More at the link.

erowe1
12-29-2011, 12:45 PM
Hello, I was wanting to know what Ron Paul has said about illegal immigration, and what he would do about it. I have heard his views on several different subjects, but not this one. Because he strongly follows the constitution, would he have a problem if the 14th amendment was changed? Specifically:

"Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws"

If the children of illegal immigrants weren't granted citizenship, there wouldn't be so many illegal immigrants crossing our border. Also, would Ron Paul increase the deportations of illegal immigrants? I know this is kinda of a touchy issue, but I think it is an important one. Thanks for any reply.

Ron Paul is for ending birthright citizenship. And he wouldn't have to change the 14th Amendment to do that, since the end of that amendment leaves it up to Congress to legislate who qualifies as "under the jurisdiction thereof" and thus as citizens.

As for deporting people, no, I don't think Ron Paul is for that.

Zippyjuan
12-29-2011, 01:10 PM
Ron Paul is for ending birthright citizenship. And he wouldn't have to change the 14th Amendment to do that, since the end of that amendment leaves it up to Congress to legislate who qualifies as "under the jurisdiction thereof" and thus as citizens.

As for deporting people, no, I don't think Ron Paul is for that.

The phrase is "within its jurisdiction" which means anybody living within its borders. You would have to change the amendment. Accoring to his Wiki positions page, he wants to have a new amendment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Ron_Paul

Paul considers it a "boondoggle" for the U.S. to spend much money policing other countries' borders (such as the Iraq–Syria border) while leaving its own borders porous and unpatrolled;[34] he argues the U.S.–Mexico border can be crossed by anyone, including potential terrorists.[54] During the Cold War, he supported Reagan's Strategic Defense Initiative,[55] intended to replace the "strategic offense" doctrine of mutual assured destruction with strategic defense.

Paul believes illegal aliens take a toll on welfare and Social Security and would end such benefits, concerned that uncontrolled immigration makes the U.S. a magnet for illegal aliens, increases welfare payments, and exacerbates the strain on an already highly unbalanced federal budget.[56]

Paul believes that illegal immigrants should not be given an "unfair advantage" under law.[57] He has advocated for a "coherent immigration policy", and has spoken strongly against amnesty for illegal aliens because he believes it undermines the rule of law, grants pardons to lawbreakers,[58] and subsidizes more illegal immigration.[59] Paul voted for the Secure Fence Act of 2006, authorizing an additional 700 miles (1100 kilometers) of double-layered fencing between the U.S. and Mexico mainly because he wanted enforcement of the law and opposed amnesty, not because he supported the construction of a border fence.[60]

Paul believes that mandated hospital emergency treatment for illegal aliens should be ceased and that assistance from charities should instead be sought because there should be no federal mandates on providing health care for illegal aliens.[60]

Paul also believes children born in the U.S. to illegal aliens should not be granted automatic birthright citizenship.[61] He has called for a new Constitutional amendment to revise fourteenth amendment principles and "end automatic birthright citizenship",[62] and believes that welfare issues are directly tied to the illegal immigration problem.[63]


The piece seems to contain some inacuracies though since illegal aliens are not elgible for Social Security or Medicare. Not sure if that is the piece's issue or if Ron Paul actually said that.

Here is an interview he did with Univision on the immigration issue in October of this year:
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/rep-ron-paul-tells-univision-he-might-oppose-14th-amendment-birthright-citizenship/

Says he is against kicking out immigrants already here but cautions that he does not want to reward those who cross the border. Says we need some system of "assimilation".


The first half of the interview discussed immigration exclusively, and Ramos opened with a general question on Rep. Paul’s views. “Somebody who has been here… it’s their country, I think there should be a program to bring them into the fold,” Rep. Paul noted, supporting a program to help illegal immigrants reach an acceptable migration status. That said, he made the point that he was not in favor of amnesty or helping anyone cut in line. Furthermore, Rep. Paul made the point that he wasn’t entirely comfortable with Fourteenth Amendment birthright citizenship. “I think the mere fact of stepping across the border and having a child… no, I don’t think that should be automatic,” he noted. He did add that, as a doctor, he had seen a great number of cases where mothers crossed the border specifically to assure their child American citizenship.

Ramos immediately asked whether this meant that Rep. Paul “wanted to change the Constitution,” a valid question, but one that for anyone following the Rep. Paul campaign for the past few years will find is a rare doubt about the candidate– in fact, adherence to the Constitution is the one most pervasive talking point of both the 2008 and 2012 Paul campaigns. “Depends on how you interpret the Constitution,” Rep. Paul retorted, suggesting that the Fourteenth Amendment applied only to those “under the jurisdiction– if you’re illegal, you might not be considered under the jurisdiction of the United States government.”


Video of the interview at the link.

Now if we consider that those in the country illegally are not "under the jurisdiction" of the United States government then that could be taken to also mean that they would not be guilty of any federal crimes they may commit- that they would not be subject to the laws of the United States so I have to take exception to that interpretation of the 14th Amendment. It would also say that the US Constitution does not apply to everybody within the country- only to actual citizens. That is potentially dangerous in my opinion. No rights at all for foreigners here.

Vergil
12-30-2011, 01:54 AM
Having babies is not a major reason people are in the US illegally. Welfare is also not a major lure. Most come for jobs or freedoms they don't find in their own country. This can be easily shown by noting that the estimated number of illegals in the country declined by two million during the first two years of the current economic crisis. And actually 40% of those here illegally entered the country on a legal basis- on tourist, student, work or other visas- and overstayed them.

http://theweek.com/article/index/221485/the-dramatic-decline-in-illegal-immigration-3-theories

More at the link. http://www.examiner.com/immigration-reform-in-national/border-apprehensions-are-down-for-a-simple-reason-obama-is-not-allowing-them

Arrests of illegal aliens has declined because they have been told not to arrest as many people (makes the numbers look better).

Giving birth in the United States is a major reason why they come over. Watch this video for a couple of examples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAfz4zg65S0

I would also like to add that 304,755 arrests in 11 months is still a considerable number. Just think of how many aren't being arrested.

Zippyjuan
12-31-2011, 01:07 PM
In 2007, the estimated number of persons in the United States was 12 million. By March 2009, that was down to 11.1 million. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20015373-503544.html

The population of undocumented immigrants fell by 8 percent to 11.1 million in March 2009, compared with a peak of 12 million in March 2007.


The drop in the population can be attributed to the reduced flow of illegal immigrants coming into the United States. It fell by nearly two-thirds in the period between 2007 and 2009 when compared to the period between 2000 and 2005, according to Pew.


I can't find the link right now but it also declined by another million in 2010 to about 10 million (i believe that was actually 10.6 million). Found it:
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2010/0211/Illegal-immigration-down-because-of-economy-or-border-control

The number of illegal immigrants living in the United States dropped to 10.6 million in 2009 from 11.6 million in 2008, the sharpest decrease in 30 years and a second straight year of decline, according to a Department of Homeland Security report released this week.

Some immigration-control groups say the decline is happening primarily because of a buildup of border patrol and surveillance – and that the buildup should thus continue to further reduce illegal immigration. Other groups claim it is a result of the poor economy. Some say it is both, and still others doubt the statistics altogether.

“I think it’s all about the economy. There is no evidence that we are ‘controlling’ illegal immigration better than in the past,” says Tomás Jiménez, assistant professor of sociology at Stanford University in Palo Alto, Calif. “In fact, the success rate of those attempting to cross illegally hasn’t changed at all. If anything is ‘controlling’ illegal immigration, it’s the economy, and we aren’t exactly in control of that.”


There have actually been record numbers deported under the Obama administration- article from just two days ago:
http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/politics/2011/12/28/latinos-frown-on-record-deportations-under-obama-but-would-vote-for-him-in-2012/

The Pew report said that deportations had risen “to an annual average of nearly 400,000 since 2009, about 30 percent higher than the annual average during the second term of the Bush administration and about double the annual average during George W. Bush’s first term.”

Read more: http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/politics/2011/12/28/latinos-frown-on-record-deportations-under-obama-but-would-vote-for-him-in-2012/#ixzz1i8mp1gum

erowe1
12-31-2011, 01:12 PM
The phrase is "within its jurisdiction" which means anybody living within its borders.
No it doesn't. And we already have examples of babies born here who aren't citizens because they're the children of diplomats (i.e. people not under US jurisdiction). The 14th amendment wasn't for making sure tourists were citizens, it was for making sure former slaves were.

I'm sure Ron Paul would love an amendment repealing the entire 14th amendment, not just birthright citizenship. But he has also sponsored bills that would end birthright citizenship by simple legislation.

Zippyjuan
12-31-2011, 01:17 PM
Most of the babies born to a family with at least one illegal parent had been in the country for more than one year If they came here just to have babies(birth tourists). , they would likely be already pregnant and thus have their kids within nine months or less. "At least one parent" also can include children born to at least one legal parent too. If at least one parent is in the US legally, does that make their child illegal?
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/12/us/12babies.html

The Pew figures show that most illegal immigrant mothers did not arrive recently.

More than 80 percent of mothers in the country illegally had been here for more than a year, the figures show, and more than half had been in the country for five years or more, said Jeffrey S. Passel, senior demographer at the Pew Hispanic Center and the co-author of the study, along with Paul Taylor, the center’s director.

“The combination of the growing undocumented population through 2007, with more staying in the country longer, creates a situation where we have seen increasing numbers of these births over the last six or seven years,” Mr. Passel said. “Because the immigrants are staying here, this is a young population, and they get married and form families.”

The babies are mostly a result of being here, not the reason they came here in the first place.


Some researchers noted that the Pew figures did not identify families where both parents were illegal immigrants. “If anything, the Pew report highlights how complicated this issue is, given that so many unauthorized immigrants live in families that include U.S. citizens and legal immigrants,” said Michele Waslin, senior policy analyst for the Immigration Policy Center, a group that supports legalization for illegal immigrants.

kylejack
12-31-2011, 01:20 PM
Ron Paul wants to repeal jus soli (birthright citizenship). I find that unfortunate, but that's his position.