Historical example of US intervention endangering Israel

[Chomsky]

http://milwaukeestory.com/index.php/2011/12/26/historical-example-of-us-intervention-endangering-israel-345/

"According to this 1993 New York Times article the US stepped in and told Israel not to make a deal with North Korea which would have stopped North Korean shipment of nuclear missile technology to Iran..."

Link to NY Times article:

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/08/15/world/israelis-say-us-opposes-north-korean-deal.html?src=pm

[Chomsky]

Link to first NY times article:

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/06/20/world/israel-seeks-to-keep-north-korea-from-aiding-iran.html?src=pm

[chadhb]

Well considering Isreal lobby runs the US Congress, Senate and White House, just a bit of nonsense dont you think. We also know as fact, Israel sell's donated US military weapons for Isarel and sells them to anyone with cash.

[Muwahid]

Iran having a Nuke wouldn't even endanger Israel, and Israel knows this, in fact, the assertion of that is laughable to anyone knowledgeable of the region.

[DinahWest]

Iran having a Nuke wouldn't even endanger Israel, and Israel knows this, in fact, the assertion of that is laughable to anyone knowledgeable of the region.

That's not the point.

The point is Israel was undermined by the US in their efforts to isolate North Korea.
Something that would never happen under the supposed anti-Israel Ron Paul.

[socal]

Iran having a Nuke wouldn't even endanger Israel, and Israel knows this, in fact, the assertion of that is laughable to anyone knowledgeable of the region.
Most people in the U.S. are not knowledgeable of the region however, so this article could be used to increase support for RP amongst those who want a pro-Israel foreign policy.

[Chomsky]

Iran having a Nuke wouldn't even endanger Israel, and Israel knows this, in fact, the assertion of that is laughable to anyone knowledgeable of the region.

Obviously it doesn't endanger Israel physically, but it would tip the balance of power toward Iran slightly in the region. And they would have to be dealt with just like any other nation that has a nuclear weapon. And Israel does not want that to happen.

So I believe Israel was genuinely interested in brokering a deal with North Korea and the US stepped in and told them to obey the orders coming from Washington.

[Muwahid]

My point is this didn't endanger Israel one bit. The topic of Israel needs to be shifted from "Iran is a threat" to "Iran isn't a threat, and even if it were, Israel has 300 nukes, and the latest and greatest technology, Israel can defend itself". American foreign policy is Israeli-centric, anyone denying this is crazy and people who try to campaign for Paul saying "No no we actually endanger Israel" will get looks as if they're crazy.

An American-centric foreign policy sounds a bit better to me.

[paleoguy]

It looks like the Israelis need to tighten up on the leash of their giant puppet (America).

We all know that the benefits of having the world's sole super-power backing you has more advantages then disadvantages. One lone disadvantage was mentioned here. Advantages are obvious. The "Jewish state" would be cut off from the rest of the world, choke, suffer and die without the USA buying off and threatening all of their enemies into submission.

[Chomsky]

The main misunderstanding I'm trying to clear up here is that Israel does not dictate US foreign policy, neither does the Pentagon care about Israel at the end of the day. It is a convenient narrative because our objectives are so closely aligned with Israel and have been for some time. Israel tried to do the right thing in this case by opening up economic relations with North Korea and prevent the spread of nuclear weapons to their neighborhood. And the US said no because of their own interests having to do with North Korea going nuclear and China.

So when you look at it in that context you realize Israel would be better off being able to act in its self interest with the resources available to them(once they had lost US aid) 100% of the time, not only when their interests align with the US.

I think when the US is taken out of the equation in the middle east completely militarily Israel's behavior will change in a hurry because they would be forced to reach out diplomatically more often.

[chadhb]

The main misunderstanding I'm trying to clear up here is that Israel does not dictate US foreign policy, neither does the Pentagon care about Israel at the end of the day. It is a convenient narrative because our objectives are so closely aligned with Israel and have been for some time. Israel tried to do the right thing in this case by opening up economic relations with North Korea and prevent the spread of nuclear weapons to their neighborhood. And the US said no because of their own interests having to do with North Korea going nuclear and China.

So when you look at it in that context you realize Israel would be better off being able to act in its self interest with the resources available to them(once they had lost US aid) 100% of the time, not only when their interests align with the US.

I think when the US is taken out of the equation in the middle east completely militarily Israel's behavior will change in a hurry because they would be forced to reach out diplomatically more often.

You are so god damn niave it is pathetic.

[Endthefednow]

|^^^^^^^^^^^\||____
| RON PAUL 2012 |||""'|:)\___,
| _____________ l||__|__|__|);
|(@)@)"""""""**|(@)(@)**|(@)

[Muwahid]

Israeli doesn't dictate US foreign policy, these are strong words, but they sure as heck encourage policies which are favorable to Israel. If that's not true, then ask yourself why does America support Israel? There's no logical reason to have this much support for this small country -- it's the PRIMARY reason 3,000 Americans were killed on 9/11, financial support to Israel, the Jewish lobby cares about Israel, and Israel only. This is the source to the problem.

[Chomsky]

Chad:

Care to explain why? I doubt it but I thought I would ask?

[Chomsky]

Israeli doesn't dictate US foreign policy, these are strong words, but they sure as heck encourage policies which are favorable to Israel. If that's not true, then ask yourself why does America support Israel? There's no logical reason to have this much support for this small country -- it's the PRIMARY reason 3,000 Americans were killed on 9/11, financial support to Israel, the Jewish lobby cares about Israel, and Israel only. This is the source to the problem.

To answer your question America supports Israel because it is nothing more than a military base to them in the most strategic energy region on the globe. Period. If you don't think that is worth a few thousand American lives and a few hundred billion dollars to the pentagon and financial elite then I don't know what to tell you.

[Muwahid]

To answer your question America supports Israel because it is nothing more than a military base to them in the most strategic energy region on the globe. Period. If you don't think that is worth a few thousand American lives and a few hundred billion dollars to the pentagon and financial elite then I don't know what to tell you.

Israel is completely uneeded for this, the Arab tyrants do a much more effective job, the Arab Mukhaberat intelligence is on par with the Israeli mossad. The Jordanian mukhaberat was critical for taking out Abu Mu'sab al Zarqawi in Iraq.

So why is it supported? Bought politicians. The Jewish lobby embedded itself within America's political system for the preservation of Israel (similar to how they obtained Palestine from the British, political influence) Britain could have kept Palestine for itself, had less enemies in the world too, but their politicians were bought.

[Chomsky]

Israel is completely uneeded for this, the Arab tyrants do a much more effective job, the Arab Mukhaberat intelligence is on par with the Israeli mossad. The Jordanian mukhaberat was critical for taking out Abu Mu'sab al Zarqawi in Iraq.

So why is it supported? Bought politicians. The Jewish lobby embedded itself within America's political system for the preservation of Israel (similar to how they obtained Palestine from the British, political influence) Britain could have kept Palestine for itself, had less enemies in the world too, but their politicians were bought.

I think it is simplistic to think that effectively Washington is bought off by Israel and we do their bidding for them. They might even believe that is what they are doing but they are just tools in the grand scheme of things. The situation with North Korea proves my point. And I know you think a nuclear Iran would not pose a physical threat to Israel but you can't deny it would pose a economic and geopolitical threat to Israel.

[Muwahid]

Why does it sound so absurd? Look at how big business lobbies for legislation that benefits them and not the people? (SOPA is a good example!) Or Mega multinational corporations like Monsanto. The Jewish lobbying organisations like AIPAC are no different, piss off these people and your political career is over, just like if you piss off the big companies that sponsor your campaigns.

I mean think of Newt's words, the Palestinians are an "invented people", such an absurd statement, but I'm sure it pleased some people.


but you can't deny it would pose a economic and geopolitical threat to both Israel and the US

Anymore than Pakistan? Pakistan is traditionally more hostile towards the United States than Iran, in terms of their population. Iran having a nuke is an American political ploy to get people scared.. sure Israel nor America, nor any country wants their non-allies to have weapons as it tilts power in their direction, that's basic. But it poses no threat, not even indirect towards Israel or America.

[chadhb]

America is a conquered state, how can you not see how the whole power structure of America is run by communist? The commies run every major radio and tv station( including faux news), they run the entire goverment, the judicial system. Any area where the communist feel threatened, they take and gain control. Come on man 1965 immigration act, pushed by the commies and traitors.
What does this have to do with Israel? absolutely nothing of course.

[Chomsky]

Why does it sound so absurd? Look at how big business lobbies for legislation that benefits them and not the people? (SOPA is a good example!) Or Mega multinational corporations like Monsanto. The Jewish lobbying organisations like AIPAC are no different, piss off these people and your political career is over, just like if you piss off the big companies that sponsor your campaigns.

I mean think of Newt's words, the Palestinians are an "invented people", such an absurd statement, but I'm sure it pleased some people.



Anymore than Pakistan? Pakistan is traditionally more hostile towards the United States than Iran, in terms of their population. Iran having a nuke is an American political ploy to get people scared.. sure Israel nor America, nor any country wants their non-allies to have weapons as it tilts power in their direction, that's basic. But it poses no threat, not even indirect towards Israel or America.

Ok I feel a little better that you acknowledge corporations in the same breath as the Israel lobby. Maybe I got the wrong impression and thought you were arguing the point that Israel runs Washington and particularly US foreign policy.

Anymore than Pakistan? Yes, more than Pakistan. Again you have to remember that this stuff comes down to resources and the transport of resources, when it comes to that Iran is the crown jewel of the middle east and some might argue the world outside of Saudi Arabia. They get a nuke and it becomes more difficult to get regime change there (that being the true goal, not outright war), and oil becomes that much more of a trump card that Iran could potentially play against US, with the backing of Russia/China.

Also the population doesn't matter, why do you think we are able to carry out drone strikes and who knows what else in Pakistan, because we have their government. In Iran it is the opposite, we have the people to some extent but it doesn't really help us, we need the government.

Btw, I totally understand that Iran having a nuke does not pose a physical threat to the US or Israel, it just makes it harder for the US or Israel to get regime change like I talked about above.

Its important to take a big step back and realize the middle east is just fighting over the resources needed to win the eventual big one between the big boys, China, Russia and US. Israel is just part of the middle east equation and falls under the US when it comes to the big three.