To Ron Paul Supporters: Civility is Essential

[courtney]

Hey all, I'm new to this forum (in fact, this is my first post here -- woot! :D).

Anyway, as supporters of Paul I think it goes without saying that our collective goal is to help Ron Paul's candidacy, not hurt it. And part of the process of determining our effectiveness in this regard includes an occasional introspection of our individual and collective actions and behaviors as they relate to the overall campaign. What are we doing that's having a positive effect, and what are we doing that's having a more negative effect?

I think it's human nature (we're no exception here) to focus only on the positives; however, if we dismiss and ignore the negatives, then we're certainly doomed to repeat them, and unfortunately, to our candidate's detriment.

So, without further ado, here's the article of constructive criticism that inspired me to post this thread:

To Ron Paul Supporters: Civility is Essential (excerpt) (http://www.gopusa.com/theloft/?p=599)


The candidacy of Rep. Ron Paul has garnered some national media attention lately. On Monday, the Associated Press reported on Paul's record-setting fundraising effort. The next day, the Associated Press ran a follow-up story. Congratulations! The congressman from Texas deserves credit for the online network that has been put together.

Unfortunately, there is a segment of the Ron Paul network that has been receiving attention of another nature for quite some time -- his avid online "supporters." I'm not talking about people who simply support Ron Paul. I'm talking about the aggressive network of online fans who bombard discussion boards, spam web sites, flood online polls, and behave in a manner that puts their candidate in an extremely bad light. These so-called supporters not only hurt the Republican Party overall, but they also hurt their candidate.

Before I continue, I know there are those who are already getting their typing fingers ready to fire off some nasty e-mail, so please allow me to explain. If you are a general Ron Paul supporter, then that's great. Good for you, and good for your candidate. I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about those who are part of Paul's Internet network who have no sense of civility, decorum, and common manners. These are the people who do a disservice to Dr. Ron Paul.

<snip>

It's clear that [Ron Paul's] online network of supporters is highly motivated and organized. [Paul's] fundraising efforts prove that. But it is also clear that some of [Ron Paul's] supporters are doing... more harm than good. It does not further [Ron Paul's] cause when supporters send profanity-laced e-mails to GOPUSA or other organizations....

At GOPUSA, we want input and discussions. All we ask is for civility and professionalism and something more than just pimping for your candidate. Unprofessional and profane behavior does not advance your candidate's cause. In fact, it hurts your candidate.

<snip>


One final note, I'm not pimping GOPUSA, or any other site -- or candidate for that matter. I am a staunch supporter Ron's (as well as a member of the Libertarian Party since '97) and in fact, I have donated the maximum amount allowed to the campaign. However, I think we should take heed of the bad along with the good. It's easy to get a little carried away on a keyboard, trust me, I know from personal experience! :D :D

Anyway, sorry to drop a little negativity in here, but it was well intentioned....

[DeadheadForPaul]

You (and the original author) are actually providing constructive criticism.

Just as Dr. Paul talks about, there is blowback to negative actions. That's why we should be civil and ask what Dr. Paul would do in our situation

Sending threatening emails or using stolen CC's to donate only reflect negatively. We have the freedom message on our side. We dont need to become nasty

[Mark Rushmore]

I can see how a poll that is designed to have a specific and limited reach (eg. local radio station) - but includes an online interface - may be "spammed" by Ron Paul supporters. But at GOPUSA, RedState or LGF, if Ron Paul supporters numerically outnumber other supporters, how is that spamming? I'm not saying "screw this article, down with civility".. I'm just saying it sounds an awful lot like a fluff piece to help excuse excluding Ron Paul from polls.

[tonyr1988]

Entirely agree.

[jpa]

Welcome to the forums! I am glad more like you are joining.

Just be aware, there are many here with independant streaks, and do not take kindly to being told what to do (even if it is good advice). So you may not get all hearts & flowers in the replies that follow.

Ron Paul campaign is the very definition of big tent, and with that comes people who are going to be more aggressive and stand off-ish than you. All we can do is show a model attitude, and hope people don't judge ron paul by a few of his supporters.

[TopJimmy]

I couldn't agree more. We have enough enemies gunning for us. The last thing we should
do is provide them with more ammunition - or alienate potential allies or MSM types.

[ItsTime]

Please prove that the people sending the emails are Ron Paul supporters and not shills... Thank you

[Mortikhi]

This is simple for me.

I don't post at places full of dimwits like gopusa

[katao]

Please prove that the people sending the emails are Ron Paul supporters and not shills... Thank you

The OP does not need to prove anything. All that is being asked is to be more civil if you are one of those being uncivil. Even if the accusations are false, it is still good advice.

[10thAmendmentMan]

What you're saying has been said numerous times before but, unfortunately, still needed to be said. Some people seem to forget the importance of not being obnoxious.

[Perry]

This thread is important and needs many bumps.

[pcosmar]

This thread is important and needs many bumps.

Yeah, so do the other ones,4 of them i think, all started with folks that just showed up here.
All telling us how rude we are for mentioning Ron Paul's name on a GOP site.
A site that is openly rude and hostile has no business,calling anyone rude.
I have never been less than civil on other sites, yet have experienced a lot of rude and pointless attacks.
I will be rude to TROLLs. and we have some here.
There are folks showing up lately putting down projects, making baseless accusations and generally stirring shit.
I am tired of it.
Now I am looking for them, and I may not be polite.

[ronpaul4pres]

Just be aware, there are many here with independant streaks, and do not take kindly to being told what to do (even if it is good advice).

This is not a "being told what to do" issue. Just like we are all free to carry arms, we are free to curse and not consider others' feelings. Nobody is trying to take away that freedom!

However, just like America's actions overseas can have unintended blowback so can our own words. To everyone: please keep this in mind.

[njandrewg]

Civility is a two way street....so screw them

[courtney]

Not to bump my own thread, but I do want to thank those here who've welcomed me. Thanks! :)

On another note, I certainly don't want to come across as "preaching" at all. For if there is a God, S/He knows I'm not qualified for that! :D

However, I do want add that I recognize as well as most others that Paul is being ignored in some circles, etc. For me (and for better or for worse) I've taken my frustration out by writing stupid articles for The Spoof! (http://www.thespoof.com/) instead of sending angry responses to whomever it is I feel deserves it.

Examples of my satire-based stories are: (MSNBC) Romney Does Not Win NV Straw Poll (http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s2i25867);
Mentally Challenged Florida Man on Fox News: "Ron Paul is Certifiably Insane" (http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s2i26038);
Exhausted Ron Paul Campaign Spammer Found Sleeping on the Job (http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.cfm?headline=s2i25976)

Anyway, sorry to pimp my own articles, but the point is that there are other ways to vent one's frustration without blasting angry emails all across the Internet. Humor works wonders, and besides, you never know who may be reading....

PS, there are other satire sites out there besides The Spoof, so I'm not suggesting that everyone flock over to The Spoof! :D I'm just presenting an alternative to anger is all.

Besides, campaigning for Ron Paul should remain fun, right? :)

[pcosmar]

^ sort of supports that web traffic theory.

[erowe1]

Please prove that the people sending the emails are Ron Paul supporters and not shills... Thank you

She doesn't need to prove this.
How many times have you seen people use these very forums to encourage people to email columnists, journalists, and news organizations to complain about something they said or about not covering RP?
We know they hate that. We know it hurts the cause when people do that. Yet some idiots can't figure that out.

[ronpaul4pres]

Civility is a two way street....so screw them

Do what to whom?

Although I admit it's not always easy, we must always try to be the civil ones, lead by example, and show others the folly of their ways.

[constituent]

Not to bump my own thread

...

Anyway, sorry to pimp my own articles, but the point is that there are other ways to vent one's frustration without blasting angry emails all across the Internet. Humor works wonders, and besides, you never know who may be reading....

PS, there are other satire sites out there besides The Spoof, so I'm not suggesting that everyone flock over to The Spoof! :D I'm just presenting an alternative to anger is all.

Besides, campaigning for Ron Paul should remain fun, right? :)

my God, we need like 6,000 of you around here right now. welcome!

[Wyurm]

your criticizm is taken under advisement. I personally don't do any of the behaviors complained about, however, this type of thread usually ends up in a flame war state and I encourage people to stop posting this type of thing because it really is counter-productive. If you want civility, set the example, be civil and get recognition for it. People will then see that acting respectfully garners more support. Furthermore, there are quite a few fakes in the movement. People only pretending to support Ron Paul in order to give him a bad name, you aren't going to stop them from acting like asses, nor will you get them to just "pack up and go".

So, seriously, lead by example and reconsider trying to herd angry cats because its not going to happen. Welcome to the forums! :)

[work2win]

I shamelessly support this tact-promoting propaganda and will add my own as well.

Ron Paul finally got a mention on a local radio show, and that was thanks to a very tactful email by a supporter. Not only did Ron Paul get mentioned, but the talk show hosts responded very well! Here's me paraphrasing how this supporter did it:

"You guys should really talk about Ron Paul more. He stands for principles of small government and personal responsibility that both of you talk about so much. He has a ton of support and just raised 4.3 million dollars in 24 hours! P.S. Your humor is on par with the best of the BBC and It makes my drive enjoyable every day."

That, folks, is TACT.

[MS0453]

I remember reading a story one time about how Benjamin Franklin was so successful as an ambassador to France. Needless to say, Franklin was a genius and the people he was dealing with weren't. In order to convince them of anything, he would essentially build up an argument, but never "paint the whole picture". He would never come out and just say "Yes, I want this" or "We must do this". He only steered the conversations in what every direction he wanted and set the course. Eventually, those who we was trying to convince, would suggest doing exactly what he was thinking the whole time. I think he might have even gone so far as to praise them for their wise insights.


He knew his crowd. He knew that they were vain and ignorant, but he made them feel important. He made them feel smart. And in the end, he got what he wanted.

We have no need to be rude, when we could get so much more done by just being clever. :cool:

[Cardinal Red]

As someone who has worked on successful state and national political campaigns at the congressional and Presidential level (and who donated to RP on the day he opened his exploratory committee) I can say that the grassroots of this campaign is the most amazing I have ever seen. It's incredibly inspiring. Unfortunately, there are a few members who have alienated key constituencies through overzealous support of RP and denigration of other candidates or people who oppose Dr. Paul. I can't possibly overstate how damaging to Dr. Paul this approach is. Before you send off that flame (even if the idiot deserved it), think WWRD.

Like it or not, Dr. Paul is in a popularity contest. That is what an election is and we are here to win. While we know his message and his vision are by far the best of the candidates in this race, unfortunately, a lot of Republicans don't (yet) feel that way. We are never going to convert the hard-core neocons but we need to be on our best behavior so that we can reach out to that portion of the base that is receptive to a true constitutional conservative like Dr. Paul. If we scare them through shrill flame-wars and shouting matches, it is we who will lose.

Dr. Paul always states his position clearly and does not back down but he is always civil and professional as well. That is a great part of his appeal and it's how he has been able to dramatically expand his support in this campaign. We need to be sure to follow his example.

[robatsu]

Well, I understand the arguments here and I'm all for gentility and all, but for all this gopusa noise, sort of like the previous redstate dustup, I just have one word: Alexa (http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?site0=www.ronpaul2008.com&site1=www.redstate.com&site2=www.gopusa.com&y=r&z=3&h=300&w=610&range=6m&size=Medium&url=www.ronpaul2008.com)

Also shows what a good idea 11/5 was, not that we don't know that already.

[rockwell]

I mistakenly posted on wrong thread. Oops.

[rockwell]

Twice. DOH!

[seapilot]

I remember reading a story one time about how Benjamin Franklin was so successful as an ambassador to France. Needless to say, Franklin was a genius and the people he was dealing with weren't. In order to convince them of anything, he would essentially build up an argument, but never "paint the whole picture". He would never come out and just say "Yes, I want this" or "We must do this". He only steered the conversations in what every direction he wanted and set the course. Eventually, those who we was trying to convince, would suggest doing exactly what he was thinking the whole time. I think he might have even gone so far as to praise them for their wise insights.


He knew his crowd. He knew that they were vain and ignorant, but he made them feel important. He made them feel smart. And in the end, he got what he wanted.

We have no need to be rude, when we could get so much more done by just being clever. :cool:

This is very good advice. Tact is everything. You have to plant seeds in sheeples brains in order to get them to think about Ron Paul seriously. Just shouting The FED SUCKS vote Ron Paul doesnt do anything unless the person actually understands the FED which most havent a clue.

Most everyone hates high gas prices and its an easy icebreaker too. Man gas prices have gone up, I thought this war was supposed to stabilize prices.

Person: yeah it sucks

I heard a presidental candidate saying that if we pulled out that price of oil would probably drop 20 bucks overnight because of the speculation.

Person: really ? Which one said that?

Lots of easy topics for intro, Ive used, Falling dollar, border security, income taxes, loss of freedoms with TSA.

I liken instead of hitting someone over the head with a bat with Ron Paul issues, you hand them the bat and they hit themselves over the head with it.

[AlexMerced]

yep, I always start by asking what issue is important to them, how they feel about it, and continue sking questions till they've logiced themselves into ron pauls position.cause well if you logic it long enough, that's where logic will take you.

This approach has worked vey well, ause people feel like they got their on there own and feel empowered.

[raystone]

I can swear with the best of them, throw some cutting insults....just choose not to do it in a forum representing the people who believe in our presidential hopeful. To the few who are still using the fbomb in the forum, phrases like "up yours" to our elected officials, keep in mind it takes only one of these to be read by one of the millions of undecided conservative christians checking out Ron Paul and his grassroots forum to be taken aback and go back to Huckabee's site.

[LibertyEagle]

Bump

[LibertyEagle]

bump

[yongrel]

Please prove that the people sending the emails are Ron Paul supporters and not shills... Thank you

There's proof all over this forum. Just read one of the many, many Glenn Beck threads.

[Mark Rushmore]

Of all the posts in all the discarded postpiles... this is the one that gets dredged up? :confused:

That GOPUSA article was an off-the-cuff give-me-more-traffic embrace-my-narcotic-groupthink-and-stop-promoting-your-candidate smear piece some 10 million dollars and six percentage points ago.

[LibertyEagle]

I looked for the one that was specifically about the use of profanity that is used frequently on this board, but I ran into this one first.

If people are unable to construct a sentence without using the F bomb, or other assorted 4 letter words, then we have a definite problem. That, plus the frequent Christian bashing, needs to stop. There is no reason to run people away from this site AND from looking further into Ron Paul's record, because of OUR ACTIONS.

What we do, reflects on our candidate. Whether we like it or not. Please remember that. We are so close to possibly having a real chance in this thing, folks. Let's not ruin it now.

[InRonWeTrust]

I don't think emails to organizations or media people or whatever should ever be laced with profanity.

[Flirple]

Bump