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View Full Version : Justice: Reparations for Blacks and Native Americans?




Jamesiv1
12-22-2011, 08:31 AM
Has Ron ever been asked about reparations for Blacks and/or Native Americans?

HUGE injustices perpetrated by America on a HUGE number of people. Outright genocide of the native people of our country.

"Manifest Destiny" --- boy, that was a good one.

I realize there are more pressing issues as far as getting elected our next President.

But is there anything on the record?

Pennsylvania
12-22-2011, 08:33 AM
I'm about 100% certain he'd be against reparations.

jdmyprez_deo_vindice
12-22-2011, 08:38 AM
I'm about 100% certain he'd be against reparations.

Same here.

How is this concept any different than wealth redistribution?

tod evans
12-22-2011, 08:52 AM
Oh boy, here we are trying to not saddle our collective grandchildren with debt and you're asking about using tax dollars to make reparations for something that happened umpteen generations ago.

Following your premiss I'd like to collect a pension from the EU for "crimes" committed against my forefathers...

FreeTraveler
12-22-2011, 08:54 AM
Total non-starter. The sins of the father are not to be visited on the sons.

roho76
12-22-2011, 08:55 AM
Not one person in this country has owned a slave or been a slave (except the welfare state which I consider to be legalized slavery). Nuff said. Nobody deserves anything.

musicmax
12-22-2011, 09:10 AM
Sample answer to the reparations question:
If you start talking about reparations, you have to figure out a way to pay for them. And sadly the only way the government has used to pay for any new programs over the past decade has been to print money out of thin air. This devalues the currency and results in inflation, a hidden tax that hits the poor and the people who would allegedly be "helped" by reparations. Look at the cost of food; look at the cost of your heating and electric bills. These basic needs are becoming unaffordable because as you create more money with a printing press, each dollar becomes worth less. And with our national debt at $15 trillion, that's a $200,000 debt on every household in the country. My budget plan puts us on the road to paying off the debt, which will save every household far more money than they'd receive under any of the reparation plans put forward.

Jamesiv1
12-22-2011, 09:17 AM
Oh boy, here we are trying to not saddle our collective grandchildren with debt and you're asking about using tax dollars to make reparations for something that happened umpteen generations ago.

Now, now... I didn't say anything about using tax dollars. There are always options.

I adhere to a program that believes in restitution (most good religions do as well) - i.e. making amends for harm done to others.

I don't think I'm alone in believing that compassionate Americans have a degree of "national guilty conscience" for some of our past collective behavior..

Ron is a faithful man (http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/statement-of-faith/). I'm just wondering if he's ever been asked the question, and if his views are on the record.

jdmyprez_deo_vindice
12-22-2011, 09:27 AM
Now, now... I didn't say anything about using tax dollars. There are always options.

I adhere to a program that believes in restitution (most good religions do as well) - i.e. making amends for harm done to others.

I don't think I'm alone in believing that compassionate Americans have a degree of "national guilty conscience" for some of our past collective behavior..

Ron is a faithful man (http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/statement-of-faith/). I'm just wondering if he's ever been asked the question, and if his views are on the record.

As far as I know, Ron has never given a statement on his view of reparations but I am sure he would have no problem with you giving away all of your own money if that is what you desired to do with it.

tod evans
12-22-2011, 09:27 AM
Now, now... I didn't say anything about using tax dollars. There are always options.

I adhere to a program that believes in restitution (most good religions do as well) - i.e. making amends for harm done to others.

I don't think I'm alone in believing that compassionate Americans have a degree of "national guilty conscience" for some of our past collective behavior..

Ron is a faithful man. I'm just wondering if he's ever been asked the question, and if his views are on the record.

So are you asking if Ron Paul feels guilty for what our collective forefathers did?
I can't answer for him.

Myself...I don't harbor one iota of guilt.
I believe that all Americans ought to be treated equally, no preference to black/yellow or green, curly hair or straight, no special treatment due to possessing a penis or vagina either.
But that's my belief....if anybody wants to feel guilty or beholden for any reason then that's their right.

Butchie
12-22-2011, 09:28 AM
Now, now... I didn't say anything about using tax dollars. There are always options.

I adhere to a program that believes in restitution (most good religions do as well) - i.e. making amends for harm done to others.

I don't think I'm alone in believing that compassionate Americans have a degree of "national guilty conscience" for some of our past collective behavior..

Ron is a faithful man (http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/statement-of-faith/). I'm just wondering if he's ever been asked the question, and if his views are on the record.

Are you trolling here? "Our collective behavior", what are you even talking about? NEWSFLASH: I never owned a slave, I never slaughtered an Indian, or abused Chinamen on the railroad or any other BS you want to spew, another tidbit of info the people that did suffer those things and the indivuduals who caused it are long dead, I don't owe anyone anything, this is the most racist post I've ever seen on this site.

Athan
12-22-2011, 09:40 AM
Reparations is a bad idea. We should as a nation however repair our relationship with the Native Americans.

Dr.3D
12-22-2011, 09:50 AM
How is treating people differently because of their skin color not considered racism? That's the problem here, racism will never go away till everyone is treated the same. Giving some people special attention because of the color of their skin will not solve the problem, it just perpetuates it.

Jamesiv1
12-22-2011, 09:54 AM
So are you asking if Ron Paul feels guilty for what our collective forefathers did?

Is english your 2nd language?


I'm just wondering if he's ever been asked the question, and if his views are on the record.

If a principled man of faith addressed the issue in a State of The Union, I would sit up and listen. I guess that's all I'm saying...

tod evans
12-22-2011, 10:01 AM
Is english your 2nd language?
...

Nope, born in northern Ill. served in the USN and don't speak any foreign languages....
Where did this comment come from?

Tonewah
12-22-2011, 11:55 AM
Russell Means said RP is our only hope. You can find the 'tube of it. He's been an indian spokeman for years, and is currently president of the Lakota Nation, I believe. I think this indicates that he understands that the federal government is the problem, and the smaller you make it, the better off we'll all be. Reparations won't happen, but allowing tribes full control over their own land would be a good start, and I'm sure Paul would support that, totally.

jmdrake
12-22-2011, 12:02 PM
Let's see. Has our first "black president" Barack Hussein Obama said or done anything about reparations? No? So why should Ron Paul? Anyhow, at one point there were more Irish slaves (that's right, slaves, not indentured servants) in the Americas than there were black slaves. Ron Paul should steer clear of this issue. Oh yeah, and I'm black.

http://www.africaresource.com/rasta/sesostris-the-great-the-egyptian-hercules/the-irish-slave-trade-forgotten-white-slaves/
The Irish Slave Trade – The Forgotten “White” Slaves
The Slaves That Time Forgot

By John Martin

They came as slaves; vast human cargo transported on tall British ships bound for the Americas. They were shipped by the hundreds of thousands and included men, women, and even the youngest of children.

Whenever they rebelled or even disobeyed an order, they were punished in the harshest ways. Slave owners would hang their human property by their hands and set their hands or feet on fire as one form of punishment. They were burned alive and had their heads placed on pikes in the marketplace as a warning to other captives.

We don’t really need to go through all of the gory details, do we? After all, we know all too well the atrocities of the African slave trade. But, are we talking about African slavery?

King James II and Charles I led a continued effort to enslave the Irish. Britain’s famed Oliver Cromwell furthered this practice of dehumanizing one’s next door neighbor.

The Irish slave trade began when James II sold 30,000 Irish prisoners as slaves to the New World. His Proclamation of 1625 required Irish political prisoners be sent overseas and sold to English settlers in the West Indies. By the mid 1600s, the Irish were the main slaves sold to Antigua and Montserrat. At that time, 70% of the total population of Montserrat were Irish slaves.

Ireland quickly became the biggest source of human livestock for English merchants. The majority of the early slaves to the New World were actually white.

From 1641 to 1652, over 500,000 Irish were killed by the English and another 300,000 were sold as slaves. Ireland’s population fell from about 1,500,000 to 600,000 in one single decade. Families were ripped apart as the British did not allow Irish dads to take their wives and children with them across the Atlantic. This led to a helpless population of homeless women and children. Britain’s solution was to auction them off as well.

During the 1650s, over 100,000 Irish children between the ages of 10 and 14 were taken from their parents and sold as slaves in the West Indies, Virginia and New England. In this decade, 52,000 Irish (mostly women and children) were sold to Barbados and Virginia. Another 30,000 Irish men and women were also transported and sold to the highest bidder. In 1656, Cromwell ordered that 2000 Irish children be taken to Jamaica and sold as slaves to English settlers.

Many people today will avoid calling the Irish slaves what they truly were: Slaves. They’ll come up with terms like “Indentured Servants” to describe what occurred to the Irish. However, in most cases from the 17th and 18th centuries, Irish slaves were nothing more than human cattle.

As an example, the African slave trade was just beginning during this same period. It is well recorded that African slaves, not tainted with the stain of the hated Catholic theology and more expensive to purchase, were often treated far better than their Irish counterparts.

African slaves were very expensive during the late 1600s (50 Sterling). Irish slaves came cheap (no more than 5 Sterling). If a planter whipped or branded or beat an Irish slave to death, it was never a crime. A death was a monetary setback, but far cheaper than killing a more expensive African.

The English masters quickly began breeding the Irish women for both their own personal pleasure and for greater profit. Children of slaves were themselves slaves, which increased the size of the master’s free workforce. Even if an Irish woman somehow obtained her freedom, her kids would remain slaves of her master. Thus, Irish moms, even with this new found emancipation, would seldom abandon their kids and would remain in servitude.

In time, the English thought of a better way to use these women (in many cases, girls as young as 12) to increase their market share: The settlers began to breed Irish women and girls with African men to produce slaves with a distinct complexion. These new “mulatto” slaves brought a higher price than Irish livestock and, likewise, enabled the settlers to save money rather than purchase new African slaves.

This practice of interbreeding Irish females with African men went on for several decades and was so widespread that, in 1681, legislation was passed “forbidding the practice of mating Irish slave women to African slave men for the purpose of producing slaves for sale.” In short, it was stopped only because it interfered with the profits of a large slave transport company.

England continued to ship tens of thousands of Irish slaves for more than a century. Records state that, after the 1798 Irish Rebellion, thousands of Irish slaves were sold to both America and Australia.

There were horrible abuses of both African and Irish captives. One British ship even dumped 1,302 slaves into the Atlantic Ocean so that the crew would have plenty of food to eat.

There is little question that the Irish experienced the horrors of slavery as much (if not more in the 17th Century) as the Africans did. There is, also, very little question that those brown, tanned faces you witness in your travels to the West Indies are very likely a combination of African and Irish ancestry.

In 1839, Britain finally decided on it’s own to end it’s participation in Satan’s highway to hell and stopped transporting slaves. While their decision did not stop pirates from doing what they desired, the new law slowly concluded THIS chapter of nightmarish Irish misery.

But, if anyone, black or white, believes that slavery was only an African experience, then they’ve got it completely wrong.

Irish slavery is a subject worth remembering, not erasing from our memories. But, where are our public (and PRIVATE) schools???? Where are the history books? Why is it so seldom discussed?

Do the memories of hundreds of thousands of Irish victims merit more than a mention from an unknown writer? Or is their story to be one that their English pirates intended: To (unlike the African book) have the Irish story utterly and completely disappear as if it never happened.

None of the Irish victims ever made it back to their homeland to describe their ordeal. These are the lost slaves; the ones that time and biased history books conveniently forgot.

Suzu
12-23-2011, 01:40 AM
I've been trying for the last 4+ years to get word to Dr. Paul that there's a large voting block he could win over by talking about dismantling the BIA, pardoning political prisoner Leonard Peltier, working to repeal PL 93-531, and addressing various other grievances of Native Americans including broken treaties (still going on to this day).

Perhaps lotsa people sending a suggestion to Doug Wead (dougwead@aol.com) would eventually have an effect.... ;)

Zippyjuan
12-23-2011, 03:29 AM
Not one person in this country has owned a slave or been a slave (except the welfare state which I consider to be legalized slavery). Nuff said. Nobody deserves anything.
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