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View Full Version : Health Care: Will Ron let you die?




Starfox
12-20-2011, 10:07 AM
Will Ron Paul let you die on the streets if you dont have Health Insurance? I know thats a bit extreme a statement but, as i am trying to educate myself what are his politcs on this? And how will he address this?

Can someone answer me this, why can the US not follow canada or france or norway and so on for universal free (taxed for it) health care? Why is it such a hard task for this to happen?

Working Poor
12-20-2011, 10:09 AM
Ron sees how government intervention in medical care has raised the cost which raises the cost of everything else.

Brian4Liberty
12-20-2011, 10:12 AM
Will Ron let you die?

Yes, you will die. Ron will die too. There is no escaping that fact, no matter how much money you give to the government/medical/pharmaceutical/insurance complex.

tod evans
12-20-2011, 10:23 AM
Come on do you really think your local hospital is going to turn you away(seriously ill/hurt) if you don't have insurance?
Trying to tie medicare/medicaid to "being left in the street to die" is a far stretch.
Talk to your doctor and ask their opinion on government funded healthcare.
As to your question about socialized medicine....maybe the issue is best put to the voters in each state?

The Gold Standard
12-20-2011, 10:42 AM
Is it Ron's responsibility to keep you alive? Why don't you ask if your governor or mayor or neighbor or family will let you die?

Kotin
12-20-2011, 10:44 AM
Go to a church.. That's actually their job. So they say.

Healthcare is not an inherent right.. Ron would like to see an environment where healthcare is very cheap and available across state lines

georgiaboy
12-20-2011, 11:33 AM
did people die in the streets in America before Obamacare, Medicaid, Medicare?

Krugerrand
12-20-2011, 11:38 AM
Will Ron Paul let you die on the streets if you dont have Health Insurance?

I don't believe Ron Paul would support any Federal legislation limiting where people are allowed and not allowed to die - regardless of if one purchases health insurance.

I'd even suspect he would discourage states from passing laws prohibiting dying on the streets.

Invi
12-20-2011, 11:54 AM
I don't believe Ron Paul would support any Federal legislation limiting where people are allowed and not allowed to die - regardless of if one purchases health insurance.

I'd even suspect he would discourage states from passing laws prohibiting dying on the streets.

Haha. +rep.


But in regards to the OP, Ron wants the federal gov't out of healthcare. Period.
Gov't intervention in things often has the nasty effect of raising prices, via regulation, inflation, or both.

George_K
12-21-2011, 05:50 PM
So bottom line is RP would let you die unless a hospital is kind enough to gift you support if your lucky?

Bodhi
12-21-2011, 06:24 PM
So bottom line is RP would let you die unless a hospital is kind enough to gift you support if your lucky?
Really? "RP would let you die unless a hospital is kind enough to gift you support if your lucky?", the way you word the question makes it seem like it is Ron Paul's personal responsibility to not let you die or somehow save your life.

Maybe you could ask the question in another way?

tod evans
12-21-2011, 06:28 PM
So bottom line is RP would let you die unless a hospital is kind enough to gift you support if your lucky?

Don't think you're getting the point here ace......Ron Paul the man would undoubtedly render care himself if need be, what he states he is against is taxpayer funded federally socialized medicine....Big difference.
If you listen to him explain his position you will come to understand how both the individual states and the physicians would be better able to provide charitable care without government interference.

enjerth
12-21-2011, 06:39 PM
So bottom line is RP would let you die unless a hospital is kind enough to gift you support if your lucky?

Are you advocating that the government should kill me, if I have money I refuse to surrender to them, for them to get the money to pay for your health care?

deadfish
12-21-2011, 06:41 PM
As I understand it - Hospitals will not turn you away if you need immediate medical assistance.

Now they might not let you stay in their comfy bed for a few extra days before they kick you out. But they're not going to treat you for free. You're going to get hit with a huge bill.

Now on to the question of why is insurance so expensive?

Why is college education so expensive? because the government is involved
Why do homes cost so much? because the government is involved
Why do "savings account" pay nearly zero interest? because the government is involved
Why are cars so expensive? Why is electricity so expensive? and on and on. Same thing with healthcare, WashingtonDC creates laws that favor the largest insurers and force out competition.

Now that may seem like a simple answer that does not fully explain everything. But you have to consider just how much money the government takes from the citizens and then squanders. But wait, that's not enough - They also borrow 40 cents on every dollar in our name!

I believe the human brain is incapable of grasping the scale of the money wasted by Washington DC. If you have not seen it yet, check out: 100 Million Dollar Penny (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dl1y-zBAFg)

plus these:
Obama Budget Cuts Visualization (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWt8hTayupE)
The Obama Stimulus: Predictions vs. Reality (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJu0DgpiK8c)

evadmurd
12-21-2011, 06:45 PM
So bottom line is RP would let you die unless a hospital is kind enough to gift you support if your lucky?

No emergency room will reject treating anyone. In fact they can't. It has been against the law for a longtime. As an ER healthcare provider, I can tell you that emergency care is given out like free candy. No one is going to die in the streets from lack of care. The problem comes at paying for care--not receiving care.

outspoken
12-21-2011, 06:48 PM
When government assumes the role of charity through force, all of society suffers in the long run. Prices rise disproportionately and people become much less responsible for their own well-being.

Lafayette
12-21-2011, 06:53 PM
While Dr. Ron Paul is an MD, i don't think its the job of the President to be personally responsible for you medical care.

George_K
12-21-2011, 07:51 PM
No emergency room will reject treating anyone. In fact they can't. It has been against the law for a longtime. As an ER healthcare provider, I can tell you that emergency care is given out like free candy. No one is going to die in the streets from lack of care. The problem comes at paying for care--not receiving care.

Now that is answering the question, thanks.

I live in Austria, and I'm used to state health care were everyone whether your rich or poor get help. The answers in the first page of this thread made it appear like you could have a car accident, and if you dont have a private insurance you will be left there dying. Apparently this is not so. Its still frightening to think to live in a society where if your poor and you get injured, going to the hospital once with a serious issue might put you in debt forever. Thats not a free society, more like a scary society without compassion.

enjerth
12-21-2011, 07:57 PM
Now that is answering the question, thanks.

I live in Austria, and I'm used to state health care were everyone whether your rich or poor get help. The answers in the first page of this thread made it appear like you could have a car accident, and if you dont have a private insurance you will be left there dying. Apparently this is not so. Its still frightening to think to live in a society where if your poor and you get injured, going to the hospital once with a serious issue might put you in debt forever. Thats not a free society, more like a scary society without compassion.

Are you advocating that the government should kill me, if I have money I refuse to surrender to them, for them to get the money to pay for your health care?

Because the government doesn't generate revenue. They take it. Does that sound like a free society with compassion?

The Gold Standard
12-21-2011, 10:06 PM
So bottom line is RP would let you die unless a hospital is kind enough to gift you support if your lucky?

What? Your governor would let you die unless a hospital is kind enough to gift you support if your lucky? Your mayor? Your mother? That's terrible.

The Gold Standard
12-21-2011, 10:12 PM
Its still frightening to think to live in a society where if your poor and you get injured, going to the hospital once with a serious issue might put you in debt forever. Thats not a free society, more like a scary society without compassion.

This is where if you get the government out of the health care business you lower the cost of health care to where you wouldn't be in debt forever. In the free market quality increases and prices decrease. This country became great because of our freedom and free markets. It's unfortunate that we have given up both.

marhlfld
12-21-2011, 10:19 PM
So bottom line is RP would let you die unless a hospital is kind enough to gift you support if your lucky?

Well they aren't letting illegals die, so

kuckfeynes
12-21-2011, 11:00 PM
I've been going through 2 packs of cigarettes, a fifth of Beam, a gallon of Coke, and 3 extra value meals a day for 30 years... Now I need millions in care to maybe make it another decade if I'm "lucky."

Will you let me die? Will you write me a check?

Insurance rates exist for a reason...

deadfish
12-21-2011, 11:08 PM
I live in Austria, and I'm used to state health care were everyone whether your rich or poor get help. The answers in the first page of this thread made it appear like you could have a car accident, and if you dont have a private insurance you will be left there dying. Apparently this is not so. Its still frightening to think to live in a society where if your poor and you get injured, going to the hospital once with a serious issue might put you in debt forever. Thats not a free society, more like a scary society without compassion.

I agree, and the same could be said on other areas too. It's frightening that you cannot get a college education without decades of debt. Frightening that you cannot purchase a house without high debt because the prices are artificially inflated. As with health care, the root of the problem lies with laws/regulations/policies written by the corrupt politicians that were cherry-picked by the largest corporations and wealthiest individuals.

cdc482
12-21-2011, 11:28 PM
I wouldn't let Ron die, but I wouldn't steal from someone else to save him. (though if I was unable to save him myself, I'd try to convince others to.)

kuckfeynes
12-22-2011, 12:08 AM
At the very least, if you're going to chase this idea because it appears to work in European countries, do it on the state level. Then at least your models are of similar size. Could you imagine the EU attempting to take over the cumulative job of all those countries? It sounds absurd, especially in light of recent issues, but that's exactly what federal gov't thinks it can do.

George_K
12-22-2011, 06:05 AM
At the very least, if you're going to chase this idea because it appears to work in European countries, do it on the state level. Then at least your models are of similar size. Could you imagine the EU attempting to take over the cumulative job of all those countries? It sounds absurd, especially in light of recent issues, but that's exactly what federal gov't thinks it can do.

Good point. In Europe universal health care is undisputed and works well. People here see nations without universal health care as kind of third world countries. You might be right that universal health care might not work as well if it would be run by Bruessel / the EU, but since over here it is done by nations, it would be more like something the states would do in the US.

What if, under a Paul administration, a state decides to offer health care to its people, would they be allowed to do so?


This is where if you get the government out of the health care business you lower the cost of health care to where you wouldn't be in debt forever. In the free market quality increases and prices decrease. This country became great because of our freedom and free markets. It's unfortunate that we have given up both.

So your saying if health care would be done by the free market only, the prices would decrease so much that almost anybody could afford it? Even if your rather poor and have an accident or need an operation.

teacherone
12-22-2011, 06:11 AM
There was minor shock in the office when Paul informed the staff they would no longer participate in the federal Medicaid or Medicare programs.

"People will pay as they can," scrub nurse Donna White, who later married her boss’s youngest brother, recalls the doctor saying. ”And if they can’t, that’s fine.“

One family, she says, paid him in fresh-caught shrimp.

ron paul ain't lettin' anybody die. (http://caucuses.desmoinesregister.com/2011/12/10/in-third-white-house-bid-ron-paul’s-message-the-same/)

Liberty74
12-22-2011, 07:46 AM
Will Ron Paul let you die on the streets if you dont have Health Insurance? I know thats a bit extreme a statement but, as i am trying to educate myself what are his politcs on this? And how will he address this?

Can someone answer me this, why can the US not follow canada or france or norway and so on for universal free (taxed for it) health care? Why is it such a hard task for this to happen?

Your question is a sick joke and just proves how government has created a ton of low grade morons when it comes to thinking about the role of the federal government. It is not the President's job to give you insurance much less care. Their job is to protect your freedoms, liberties, this country when attacked, provide for sound money and an efficient economy and to follow the Constitution, the Bill of Rights. The better question to ask would be, why don't you have a job and/or health insurance? Why haven't you stepped up to the plate to be responsible for yourself and your own family? Why do you have a right to live off the backs and loot your neighbors because you smoke, do drugs, gamble, drink, drive a nice car, eat out all the time, have too many pets, etc? Because that is exactly what goes on. I see it at work with young girls who are on all forms of welfare "working" the system. This country is so screwed because as a nation, we have moved away from being personally responsible for ourselves - done by design my friends.

In regards to following other countries going bankrupt because such countries offer free healthcare on paper (they actually deny millions of people healthcare every year because of costs/rules), yes we can do that at the national level. It's called changing the Constitution by adding an Amendment. That would never pass because the vast majority of American's do not see healthcare as a right where you are allowed to have your lifestyle paid for by other Americans. Medicare and medicaid have very much screwed up our healthcare system by drastically driving up the cost of medical care for everyone and will cause our government to go bankrupt i.e. Medicare liabilities alone are $81 TRILLION. Source: Debt Clock and Future Liabilities (http://www.usdebtclock.org/)

Now, RP himself as a doctor would never deny you medical treatment. Or better yet, just move to Mass.

America Before The Entitlement State (http://www.forbes.com/sites/objectivist/2011/11/18/america-before-the-entitlement-state/?utm_source=alertsnewpost&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20111118)

evadmurd
12-22-2011, 07:54 AM
Ron Paul never took any federal money as a doctor (medicare). He just treated the people for free. Why? To keep costs down and to not tie his own hands to the ever-expanding tentacles of government intervention and rules in health care administration. Ron understood what was coming as an MD back in the 60's, way before the current capitation system there is now.

The Gold Standard
12-22-2011, 11:23 AM
Good point. In Europe universal health care is undisputed and works well. People here see nations without universal health care as kind of third world countries. You might be right that universal health care might not work as well if it would be run by Bruessel / the EU, but since over here it is done by nations, it would be more like something the states would do in the US.

What if, under a Paul administration, a state decides to offer health care to its people, would they be allowed to do so?

So your saying if health care would be done by the free market only, the prices would decrease so much that almost anybody could afford it? Even if your rather poor and have an accident or need an operation.

First of all, there are two reasons why universal health care "works" in Europe. First, they don't spend very much on defense because we are over there protecting them, so they have extra money to blow. Second, the price controls they have to institute to pay for it create shortages (of doctors, of drugs, of supplies, etc.), like price fixing does in every industry every time it is done. People accept the longer wait times over there because they don't know any better.

Under President Paul if a state wanted universal health care they would not be stopped by the federal government, because they don't have the authority to do it. Of course that state would have to find a way to pay for it.

And yes, prices fall in a free market. Why do you think cell phones and computers are cheaper than they have ever been? Because there are no federal subsidies for computers and cell phones. Prices would be even lower if we weren't printing money like it is going out of style. Competition and sound money always bring prices lower making them affordable for more people. You are from Austria, you should read up on Austrian free market economics. Go to mises.org. Read Tom Woods, Murray Rothbard, Ludwig von Mises, Bob Murphy, and all of them. Tom Woods does a great job explaining how the free market really works.

George_K
12-22-2011, 12:52 PM
Thanks

Shorting
12-26-2011, 11:35 PM
Is it Ron's responsibility to keep you alive? Why don't you ask if your governor or mayor or neighbor or family will let you die?

Very true statement.