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View Full Version : Need Help Defending Why RP Doesn't Support E-Verify




libertygrl
12-16-2011, 04:49 PM
I was posting some positive articles on RP at ALIPAC and here was some reactions I got:

I realize that RP supporters are not entirely a monolithic group and have some variance in their views, but most of the ones I have spoken to are not very concerned about illegals nor do they support E-Verify, nor does RP support E-Verify. Do you?? Please correct me if I am wrong.

"And Ron Paul has a "Big Fat 'F' at NumbersUSA!" so he doesn't support the constitution at all!

..... RP and many RP supporters oppose E-Verify and many say the government has no business telling employers who they can and cannot hire.

____________________________________________

They think he's weak on illegal immigration because of NumbersUSA giving him an "F" rating. This, despite what I posted:

* No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

* Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

* End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.

* Protect Lawful Immigrants – As President, Ron Paul will encourage legal immigration by streamlining the entry process without rewarding lawbreakers.

Can you please help me to respond to the above concerns??? Thanks!

Drex
12-16-2011, 04:52 PM
I look at it as racial profiling

z9000
12-16-2011, 04:52 PM
deleted

specsaregood
12-16-2011, 04:54 PM
you mean besides the fact that it doesn't work?

sailingaway
12-16-2011, 04:54 PM
Ask him where in the Constitution authorises E Verify.

E verify is looked at by anti illegal immigrant advocates as identifying illegal immigrants. but it only works if we ALL are in the system EVERYONE's personal information into a central database etc with biometrics. it is a civil liberty issue.

Ron is very strong on illegal immigration, but not to the extent of creating a police state.

A police state is not permitted by the Constitution and only idiocy presumes it is.

AlexG
12-16-2011, 04:55 PM
Because it's the federal governments responsibility to handle immigration, not american businesses

LibertyEagle
12-16-2011, 04:56 PM
He wants to deal with illegal immigration by getting rid of the enticements. No more free healthcare, no more free education, no more birthright citizenship, etc.

But, if I were you, I'd call Paul's congressional office and get the scoop straight from them.

Personally, I think E-Verify is a precursor to national ID cards.

VIDEODROME
12-16-2011, 04:57 PM
Does anyone like having to show their social security information every time you apply for a job? I think this is adding another layer of that type of privacy intrusion.

Also this is kind of a dragnet tactic and I'm not sure how good an idea it is to have a database on everyone instead of just on the criminals. I kind of question it's efficiency.

BSWPaulsen
12-16-2011, 04:59 PM
Support for e-verify is akin to punishing American businesses for Washington's failure to do their job concerning the border, welfare, and citizenship policies. Why should businesses be forced to shoulder the burden of yet more regulations due to a government that can't do their job in policing immigration? How does this sort of policy benefit small business owners, the ones with much more at risk with these sort of demands? They're the ones bearing the brunt of the punishment should an illegal immigrant slip through the cracks somehow.

Support for e-verify is a myopic solution to a far-reaching problem that is endemic to the entire immigration system in the United States. It's a band-aid to a wound that is already gangrenous. Instead of misdirected energies that punish Americans how about people focus their attention on energies that will fix the problem permanently.

What Ron Paul outlines, as per the usual with doctors, aims to cure the problem at its root. What e-verify does is administer a dose of morphine to a dying patient. It masks the pain, it surely doesn't solve it.

specsaregood
12-16-2011, 05:01 PM
The punch line is that E-Verify doesn’t even work. According to a study for the Department of Homeland Security, the system failed to catch 54 percent of unauthorized workers. Why? Because “since the inception of E-Verify it has been clear that many unauthorized workers obtain employment by committing identity fraud that cannot be detected by E-Verify.” In other words, farmers would have a better chance of identifying ineligible workers by flipping a coin.


http://thehill.com/opinion/columnists/markos-moulitas/168883-a-failed-experiment

Feeding the Abscess
12-16-2011, 05:01 PM
Honestly I like what michele Bachmann has said about how it forces small business owners in the private sector to become policemen.

Bachmann stole that line from Ron, most likely.

Kluge
12-16-2011, 05:05 PM
E-Verify is garbage. It empowers government and weakens US agriculture & manufacturing. Employees can simply forge their records, and no safe harbor is provided for the employers - even if E-Verify tells the employer the employee's legit. Of course, employers still need to verify using the I-9 form, which is a more invasive form of E-Verify. E-Verify & I-9 results frequently contradict each other and are riddled with errors (a study released by US Customs & Immigration Services (http://www.uscis.gov/USCIS/Native%20Docs/Westat%20Evaluation%20of%20the%20E-Verify%20Program.pdf) [see page 7] found that over half of unauthorized workers are reported as being authorized by E-Verify). Firing an employee based on the contradiction opens the employer up to large penalties under another law with anti-discrimination provisions.

If you want an anti-American law, just look to E-Verify. It hamstrings our job creators, creates a hiring environment unfairly fearful of Latinos, and funds more massive, inept, REDUNDANT bureaucracy.

Lucille
12-16-2011, 05:10 PM
Because it's the federal governments responsibility to handle immigration, not American businesses

Thank you. E-Verify is decidedly un-conservative.




Three decades ago, Barry Goldwater spelled out what the United States should do about illegal immigration.

His words of 1978 make absolute sense in 2008 (http://tucsoncitizen.com/morgue/2008/06/05/87274-kimble-immigration-what-would-barry-do/):

Don’t offer amnesty to those already here illegally. Sanctions against employers who hire illegal immigrants are unfair; it is the government’s responsibility to determine who is here legally.

Start a guest worker program to “channel the flow” of illegal immigrants through a legal mechanism.

And establish a clear immigration policy that is actually enforced.

We already have to spend time and money playing tax collector, social worker (child support payments), insurance provider, and now the fedgov wants us to be ICE agents.

libertygrl
12-16-2011, 05:13 PM
Initially I was for E-verify but as you know once you become a RP supporter, you learn that there is always potential for abuse if you give the govt. too much power - in this case, a national ID database. Like always, the good Dr. makes perfect sense. Thanks for all the other information that will make my argument against e-verify much stronger.

Standing Liberty
12-16-2011, 05:16 PM
I have been on that site before and know what
you mean. I kind of gave up since it seems the
founder of ALIPAC and NumbersUSA seem to
have something against RonPaul.
I think Paul is against EVerify due to it being another
big Federal government mandate. As far as Dr Paul
immigration stance, I think his stance on ending
birthright citizenship and entitlments are his
strong points.

Feeding the Abscess
12-16-2011, 05:20 PM
E-Verify is garbage. It empowers government and weakens US agriculture & manufacturing. Employees can simply forge their records, and no safe harbor is provided for the employers - even if E-Verify tells the employer the employee's legit. Of course, employers still need to verify using the I-9 form, which is a more invasive form of E-Verify. E-Verify & I-9 results frequently contradict each other and are riddled with errors (a study released by US Customs & Immigration Services (http://www.uscis.gov/USCIS/Native%20Docs/Westat%20Evaluation%20of%20the%20E-Verify%20Program.pdf) [see page 7] found that over half of unauthorized workers are reported as being authorized by E-Verify). Firing an employee based on the contradiction opens the employer up to large penalties under another law with anti-discrimination provisions.

If you want an anti-American law, just look to E-Verify. It hamstrings our job creators, creates a hiring environment unfairly fearful of Latinos, and funds more massive, inept, REDUNDANT bureaucracy.

I find it particularly hilarious when candidates say they want to reduce regulations and free the market, then a minute later say they want to implement E-Verify - a massive regulatory burden.

Brett85
12-16-2011, 05:34 PM
I don't have any problem with the E-Verify program at the state level, but there's no Constitutional authority for it at the federal level.

Feeding the Abscess
12-16-2011, 05:36 PM
I don't have any problem with the E-Verify program at the state level, but there's no Constitutional authority for it at the federal level.

What about the regulatory burden it would place on businesses?

Brett85
12-16-2011, 05:40 PM
What about the regulatory burden it would place on businesses?

It isn't much of a regulatory burden from what I've heard. Businesses just have to match up Social Security numbers. But I have to admit that I haven't done a lot of research on it. I suppose I could be convinced otherwise.

PierzStyx
12-16-2011, 06:10 PM
Also the E0-Verify would have to be used on everybody in the US in order to even determine who is or isn't an illegal immigrant. You couldn't just say "We'll use this on brown people because they're most likely the illegals." So in fact E-Verify would be a de facto national ID card and just another way for the Fedgov to track you and keep tabs on everything you do.

Lucille
12-16-2011, 06:24 PM
Also the E0-Verify would have to be used on everybody in the US in order to even determine who is or isn't an illegal immigrant. You couldn't just say "We'll use this on brown people because they're most likely the illegals." So in fact E-Verify would be a de facto national ID card and just another way for the Fedgov to track you and keep tabs on everything you do.

That's true.

Related: SB 1070 is a de facto nat'l ID for all Arizonans (http://sonoranalliance.com/2010/04/18/sb1070-national-ids-for-arizonans/).