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View Full Version : Push the POLICE STATE, not foreign policy issue. Change the frame of the debate




SpiritOf1776_J4
12-14-2011, 09:59 PM
They are actually the same issue, see below, but if you start out with something ridiculous like we have to be Israel's best friend no matter what or Iran might get nukes, it will go no where. Just like 999, followers of this will just repeat "999" over again, and no Constitutioal argument or sound reasoning will enter the discussion. You can't win someone that isn't actually talking in the first place.

Instead, there is a 999 pound Gorilla in the room, an issue most Americans are concerned deeply about, and it isn't being talked about. And that is the police state.

It isn't being talked about because they keep saying "foreign policy" over and over again instead of talking about the real issues. That is the police state. It's completely tied to the "foreign policy" as the 999's keep repeating over and over again - and with organized effort, it can be completely broken.

Checkpoints in America? Gropping old ladies, nuns, and kids? TSA - "foreign" policy.

Warrantless searches and wiretaps? "foreign policy".

Americans held without trial, secret courts? "foreign policy".

Predator drones being used against Americans in the USA? "foreign policy".

Assassination of Americans without trial? "foreign policy".

Indefinite detention? "foreign policy".


The real issue isn't foreign policy at all. The real issue is a police state. Every last one of these issues and many more is not talked about and placed
under "foreign policy".

Only our congress is suppose to declare war. Every country that has fallen has fallen when a dictatorship has taken over the military and formed a police state. Ron Paul is the only one that is even concerned about any of this that is running. As Ron Paul had said - You don't trust the President to run healthcare but trust him to assassinate US citizens?

And all the rest as well? Oh yes, "foreign affairs".

No it's not. It's the police state issue.

wgadget
12-14-2011, 10:20 PM
Well said.

unknown
12-14-2011, 10:55 PM
Moderator: "Dr. Paul, Israel, Iran, nuclear bomb, isolation, blah blah".

The Master:

"The biggest threat we face is an economic collapse. Iran will not bring down the US, the collapse of our dollar will.

But you know, the expansion of our global empire only justifies the erosion of our civil liberties here at home via the TSA gropings, naked body scanners, warrant-less spying on citizens via the Patriot Act, assassinations of citizens without a trial and now this NDAA which allows the indefinite incarceration of citizens in military custody".

RP loves to give examples, how about these:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44edsh6_LUc


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTOoZYRYfM0

eff
12-14-2011, 10:59 PM
I agree. Especially with things like the drones spying on the farmers in North Dakota. I know a guy thats really pissed about that, but doesn't like RP's foreign policy stuff. Might be enough to get a vote out of him, I bet.

SpiritOf1776_J4
12-14-2011, 11:03 PM
I agree. Especially with things like the drones spying on the farmers in North Dakota. I know a guy thats really pissed about that, but doesn't like RP's foreign policy stuff. Might be enough to get a vote out of him, I bet.

Those drones are the same ones they're flying over seas, just not armed yet. How long until they're armed? I can see the arguments now. Why should we risk swat teams when we can arm a drone we already have.

J_White
12-14-2011, 11:10 PM
i like this, give a short answer - I dont want anyone to have nukes, or I like Israel and want to give back its sovereign status.
and then turn to the NDAA. this will get more people on to him.

Unknown.User
12-14-2011, 11:16 PM
Seriously!

"We got the TSA putting their hands down people's pants!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVqC-ncLDk8

Go to 4:42


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVqC-ncLDk8

flightlesskiwi
12-14-2011, 11:21 PM
i want to agree with you. i really do.

buuuuuuuut... the 999 pound elephant in the room to many GOP primary voters is along the lines of muslim sharia law "invading" america and preventing ter-rists.

it's not that these people see the policing of america as "good"... they just see it as "necessary to prevent _____ (name their fear)."

i think he can draw in the younger crowd that (historically-- i'm hoping this is a historic primary as far as the numbers and demographics) doesn't vote in primaries by flipping from foreign policy to a domestic police state policy.

i think if he could somehow gently finesse federal government agency (things like the FDA, ATF, EPA, etc) regulations on businesses (economics) with the enforcement arm of the government (police state) and tie it all into civil liberties in a way that doesn't make Joe Plumber's head spin, that would, imho, appeal to primary republican voters.

SpiritOf1776_J4
12-15-2011, 12:13 AM
Yes, but you can't argue with that, and many of those supporters are paid opposition. It's a mob technique - just repeat things over and over again.

You need to go on the attack with people like that. Not "oh my, Ron Paul isn't an isolationist", but "you're building a police state and here is a whole list of examples".

Don't act timid. If it can't be straightened out, that is what we will have. Better strong words than strong fighting if it can be prevented.

Feeding the Abscess
12-15-2011, 12:22 AM
Republicans not only like and embrace the police state, they openly cheer and agitate for it.

Karsten
12-15-2011, 01:07 AM
I agree. The police state has always been a bigger issue for me than the wars.

SpiritOf1776_J4
12-15-2011, 01:36 PM
Bump for a better way to discuss things strategy. Always frame the debate back to what it actually is, the police state. It will show how ridiculous the current "debate" is. It's just like 999 was. We have to be friends with a non-Christian country Israel or God will curse us? Iran might get a nuclear bomb one day? I'm a Christian, and Revelation 3 leads me to believe something entirely different, among other verses, but that is beside the point. It still wouldn't be the political issue.

How is that any substance compared to the whole list of totalitarian things we are getting right now??? How is that foreign policy real?

This is just like 999. You win it by not arguing with it, but just talking about the real issue - like the federal reserve, or in this case, the police state.