The Importance of Tact

[cmlazar]

Fellow Ron Paul supporters:

I've been a Ron Paul supporter for several months now, finally started lurking here around the November 5th Money Bomb, and have finally found reason to register and post here.

I understand that there has been concern over the last few days about forum censorship, inappropriate behaviour on the forums, etc. These concerns are not to be taken lightly. Now that Dr. Paul has more attention from the MSM, we have to take extra precaution to ensure that we are being as tactful as humanly possible. We cannot afford to give the MSM or any of Dr. Paul's opponents ammo. This means taking the extra steps to avoid controversy in everything we do.

Yes, the 5th of November Money Bomb was a huge success, and I understand the controversy was relatively small. I also know this has been debated to death, but the fact is this: the less controversy the MSM has to talk about, the more time they have to talk about Dr. Paul's merits and how many millions his campaign has made in donations.

This is why the December 18th money bomb proposed by a few forum members is absolutely not a good idea. While there is no arguing that the passing of the 13th amendment and the abolishment of slavery is a wonderful and just thing, a money bomb on this date can be easily misconstrued--it would be incredibly unfortunate if people got the idea that we view Dr. Paul's proposal to abolish the income tax to be equal to the abolishment of slavery. We cannot let details like this go unnoticed in our planning; they will destroy us.

I'm sure these points have all been mentioned before, but an image I found on www.ronpaulmoneybomb.com has prompted this post:

http://www.ronpaulmoneybomb.com/images/terror.jpg

If you look closely, you can make out several elements of the image that make the use of this image a very bad idea. The words "Ku Klux," the Klan hood, black people in a birdcage, a noose, questionable use of the star of David, etc. Even if those elements were somehow photoshopped out, the fact that they exist in the original is reason enough to avoid using this image. The use of this image can be misconstrued to say that Ron Paul supporters are a bunch of white supremacists. These kinds of mistakes are unacceptable and will be our undoing.

Basically, be smart. Assume that your grandmother is reading these forums. Assume the FEC is reading these forums. Assume the other GOP candidates are reading these forums.

Sorry that was a long rant.

[constituent]

i thought it said that's what we were fighting against...

i liked it.

someone put many hours of work into that i'm sure..... you should try to display a little tact every now and then yourself.

[bbachtung]

Welcome, cmlazar.

[1000-points-of-fright]

I'm sure these points have all been mentioned before, but an image I found on www.ronpaulmoneybomb.com has prompted this post:

http://www.ronpaulmoneybomb.com/images/terror.jpg

If you look closely, you can make out several elements of the image that make the use of this image a very bad idea. The words "Ku Klux," the Klan hood, black people in a birdcage, a noose, questionable use of the star of David, etc. Even if those elements were somehow photoshopped out, the fact that they exist in the original is reason enough to avoid using this image. The use of this image can be misconstrued to say that Ron Paul supporters are a bunch of white supremacists. These kinds of mistakes are unacceptable and will be our undoing.

Yeah, I didn't get that image either. Too many contradictory interpretations.

[murrayrothbard]

The income tax is basically a form of slavery, isn't it?

[richard1984]

I hadn't been to that site.
Yeah...some of those pictures are like...I don't know what the hell! I'm like, "WTF?!" :eek:

I don't even get them.... :confused:

The site looks nice, but those pictures have got to go. What the hell were they thinking?!

And like I said, they don't even make sense.

If you ask me, their presence looks like the work of a real troll. Maybe even a hacker?
I don't know. I'm not really experienced with that stuff. I'm just really good at using Word and researching. That's about all I do. :)


As far as censoring this site, though--I'm against it.
If people don't know how to behave themselves (say, they're on the internet because they have no real social skills or something) that's their own burden to bear, and we can just ignore him/her or ban if necessary.
As far as the preferences of individual users, I would support saying something in the introduction to the forum that "We do not censor our users.... But if they wish, members/users can download free [hopefully] censoring software here: ______." Or something like that. I don't know if that's even possible, but it'd be a compromise.

Actually, I have an idea for a new section to this forum, but I'll address that later. (I'm supposed to be studying for a test right now.... :o :rolleyes:)

[jake]

great post. should be sticked. I think moderators need to step up. (do we need more moderators?)

[richard1984]

i thought it said that's what we were fighting against...

i liked it.

someone put many hours of work into that i'm sure..... you should try to display a little tact every now and then yourself.

But what about the Native American and the lady holding the USA flag on the thing's shoulders? That's not what we're fighting against!
That's why I just don't get it. :confused: Maybe if it were a little bigger and I could read it....

http://www.ronpaulmoneybomb.com/images/terror.jpg

[coffeewithchess]

I agree with the post and my honest opinion would be to do another "Money Bomb" on December 31st...ending the year with a bang! Also, we do need to use TACT and it is easy to get distracted with what we are saying, but we need to "STAY ON TARGET"!

[Nefertiti]

The income tax is basically a form of slavery, isn't it?

I'm sure anyone with ancestors who were slaves would find your remarks highly insensitive and trivializing. I don't have ancestors that were slaves but I've read quite a bit about modern slavery, which still exists even in the US, and to compare slavery in any time period to paying taxes is sick. Taxes are on a portion of your income, not your entire life.

In any case, I think the original poster needs some history lessons because he has his dates and events hopelessly muddled.

[Duckman]

This image was used by the Nazis as war propaganda AGAINST the United States. That figure is supposed to be the image of what the United States represented, from the German perspective, during World War II.

I don't think it is appropriate to use this image with the Ron Paul campaign. Its origins were in Nazi war propaganda.

[klamath]

Yeaw that image was not good. There was a real strong link between the left bomb foot and the Ron Paul Money bomb. The first thing I thought was the left foot was the Ron Paul money bomb and it was an anti RP image and it still might be.

[isufferfromronpaulfever]

I think this thread should be a sticky. I even like the idea of December 31st just because it's the last day of the quarter. thanks op.

[richard1984]

Yeah, I didn't get that image either. Too many contradictory interpretations.

mmm-hmmm. I'm really like, "What the fuck?!" And I'm pretty damn gifted at interpreting metaphors, symbols, and so forth.



(note: NO CENSORING!!! We should not limit language for language's sake. Now, if people are really being obscene, that's another story; but if it's something that a simple censoring program could fix, then the moderators should just leave it alone. And I'd like to say that they've done a very fine job so far (considering some of the stuff that goes on and gets said around here...;).)

[FreedomLover]

This image was used by the Nazis as war propaganda AGAINST the United States. That figure is supposed to be the image of what the United States represented, from the German perspective, during World War II.

I don't think it is appropriate to use this image with the Ron Paul campaign. Its origins were in Nazi war propaganda.

Yeah, 1st the Guy Fawkes connection and now this crap.

Honestly, why not just stick with a normal day like veteran's day ?

[Skeeterbug73]

Maybe someone should email the person who runs that site and let them know what they think about those images. I don't understand what all that has to do with the Tea Party on Dec 16 though. Am I missing something?

[constituent]

richard,

just taking a quick glance at it, i notice the american flag is held by what might be termed a "loose" woman wearing some sort of crown...

i would assume that refers to our empire driven state and the decadence and recklessness of american culture ????

just for starters....


iconography, you know?

side note: was that really nazi prop?

[richard1984]

I think this thread should be a sticky. I even like the idea of December 31st just because it's the last day of the quarter. thanks op.

I totally agree with the Dec. 31 "money bomb" (except that the 30th might be better since New Years Eve is a pretty big ass event and people won't really want to be huddled around their computers). It's after Christmas, Hanukkah, and my birthday (which is on the 15th :D), and I know a lot of people who are asking for money to donate to the Ron Paul campaign for Christmas. (Especially young people who don't really have an income and whose parents won't donate themselves. ;))

[richard1984]

richard,

just taking a quick glance at it, i notice the american flag is held by what might be termed a "loose" woman wearing some sort of crown...

i would assume that refers to our empire driven state and the decadence and recklessness of american culture ????

just for starters....


iconography, you know?

side note: was that really nazi prop?

It looks like she's wearing a white bikini, so I was thinking something like Miss America or something. I don't know.
I just don't get the image as a whole. I can't tell what the message is, but it doesn't really look very positive at first glance.
But actually, now that I look more closely, it looks as though both people on the shoulders are similarly dressed (except for the shoes, the head-wear, and the object they are holding) women, and the woman with the flag seems to also have the Star of David on her hat. And what's up with the stereotype of the Native American headdress?
I just don't get it.

[cmlazar]

In any case, I think the original poster needs some history lessons because he has his dates and events hopelessly muddled.

Umm? I was referring to the December 18th moneybomb in honor of the 13th Amendment abolishing slavery as proposed by a few forum members. I was NOT referring to the December 15th/16th Tea Party event. In my opinion the Tea Party moneybomb is a fantastic idea, and we should focus on that.



someone put many hours of work into that i'm sure..... you should try to display a little tact every now and then yourself.

I'm not denying someone put work into it. I'm just saying that using photoshopped war propaganda featuring the KKK, caged black people, etc. is a bad call.



just taking a quick glance at it, i notice the american flag is held by what might be termed a "loose" woman wearing some sort of crown...

i would assume that refers to our empire driven state and the decadence and recklessness of american culture ????


No matter how you interpret it, the fact remains that it has some really offensive imagery that we do not want associated Dr. Paul or ourselves associated with.

[klamath]

But what about the Native American and the lady holding the USA flag on the thing's shoulders? That's not what we're fighting against!
That's why I just don't get it. :confused: Maybe if it were a little bigger and I could read it....

http://www.ronpaulmoneybomb.com/images/terror.jpg

If they don't get rid of this image I will withdraw all donations for the money bombs.

[richard1984]

If they don't get rid of this image I will withdraw all donations for the money bombs.

Don't blame the campaign for the picture, though!!!

Disassociate yourself with the website, but please still donate the money!

[Skeeterbug73]

Umm? I was referring to the December 18th moneybomb in honor of the 13th Amendment abolishing slavery as proposed by a few forum members. I was NOT referring to the December 15th/16th Tea Party event. In my opinion the Tea Party moneybomb is a fantastic idea, and we should focus on that.

Ok I get it now. I didn't even know someone had planned a moneybomb for Dec. 18th. All these new moneybombs are getting a bit confusing.

[pcosmar]

What is up with all the negativity around here. Slamming someones artwork is pretty tacky, especially on a first post.

Lets just stifle any creativity.
I see nothing wrong with the image. I was offended with the debates, where all the "top tier"were calling for preemptive war.
This is symbolism folks,
One "retro" styled poster out of many.

I don't live in Mayberry.

[cmlazar]

What is up with all the negativity around here. Slamming someones artwork is pretty tacky, especially on a first post.

Lets just stifle any creativity.
I see nothing wrong with the image. I was offended with the debates, where all the "top tier"were calling for preemptive war.
This is symbolism folks,
One "retro" styled poster out of many.

I don't live in Mayberry.

This is not about stifling creativity, or tackiness, or slamming artwork. Sure, this is symbolism--symbolism we absolutely do not want to be associated with. This is not about negativity. This is about responsibility--as supporters of Dr. Paul, we need to be responsible in how we represent ourselves.

[richard1984]

What is up with all the negativity around here. Slamming someones artwork is pretty tacky, especially on a first post.

Lets just stifle any creativity.
I see nothing wrong with the image. I was offended with the debates, where all the "top tier"were calling for preemptive war.
This is symbolism folks,
One "retro" styled poster out of many.

I don't live in Mayberry.

Can you explain the symbolism, then?
Because I can't tell what the hell it's trying to say. :confused:

[FreedomLover]

What is up with all the negativity around here. Slamming someones artwork is pretty tacky, especially on a first post.

Lets just stifle any creativity.
I see nothing wrong with the image. I was offended with the debates, where all the "top tier"were calling for preemptive war.
This is symbolism folks,
One "retro" styled poster out of many.

I don't live in Mayberry.

...Its a poster that a nazi propagandist drew to show the US as a racist, "zionist-controlled" monster.

Not a good connection there, and an easy one to do away with, but that's just my opinion.

[klamath]

What is up with all the negativity around here. Slamming someones artwork is pretty tacky, especially on a first post.

Lets just stifle any creativity.
I see nothing wrong with the image. I was offended with the debates, where all the "top tier"were calling for preemptive war.
This is symbolism folks,
One "retro" styled poster out of many.

I don't live in Mayberry.

All the poster pictures on the website are WWII era posters that have been photoshoped. No problems except the one made by the Nazi government against America. That will look real good when the media swarms to find out all the background of the next money bomb and that poster shows up on a big screen behind the newscasters.

[richard1984]

...Its a poster that a nazi propagandist drew to show the US as a racist, "zionist-controlled" monster.

Not a good connection there, and an easy one to do away with, but that's just my opinion.

Hence, my confusion. It just seems so out of place on a pro-Ron Paul website.

[pcosmar]

Something like this then.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1336/541676694_0a43e75575.jpg

[nigh_eve]

For what it's worth -- I totally agree with cmlazar. We ALL appreciate freedom of speech and a request such as this is not an attempt to stifle the creativity and energy that makes this campaign so great. Please accept the sound wisdom of the post and the intent in which it was made. Dr. Paul does not need these sorts of distractions.

[cmlazar]

The suggested Tea Party '07 catch phrase of "Teabag the Whitehouse" is also a bad call. It will reflect poorly on us.

And I just found this one on www.ronpaulmoneybomb.com:

As Eric Nordstrom likes to say... "Dr. Ron Paul, Dr. Ron Paul, December 16 he'll teabag them All!"

What the hell is he thinking? How is this appropriate by any stretch of the imagination? Do you really think Dr. Paul would appreciate this if he was aware of the innuendo? I don't think so.

[Jodi]

My impression is that it represents Ron Paul supporters.

[Corydoras]

All the poster pictures on the website are WWII era posters that have been photoshoped. No problems except the one made by the Nazi government against America. That will look real good when the media swarms to find out all the background of the next money bomb and that poster shows up on a big screen behind the newscasters.

I agree, that one is terrible. The effect is so bad, it almost defies words. Does anybody here actually know the people who run this site?

[Mark Rushmore]

The suggested Tea Party '07 catch phrase of "Teabag the Whitehouse" is also a bad call. It will reflect poorly on us.

And I just found this one on www.ronpaulmoneybomb.com:

As Eric Nordstrom likes to say... "Dr. Ron Paul, Dr. Ron Paul, December 16 he'll teabag them All!"

What the hell is he thinking? How is this appropriate by any stretch of the imagination? Do you really think Dr. Paul would appreciate this if he was aware of the innuendo? I don't think so.

Issues like that one, or the previous artwork, remain non-issues until someone from the media or opposition drags... them.. up..... and makes... hmmmm... them into issues. Would you rather 10,000 Ron Paul supporters who met your behavioral standards, or 300,000,000 Ron Paul supporters with very diverse tastes in humor and artwork; all standing together for freedom? Tactics are critical but when you're fighting your way up from the bottom, you use what you've got.

[Corydoras]

What the hell is he thinking? How is this appropriate by any stretch of the imagination?

The site is marked by what I think is technically called "looseness of associations." There's a somewhat dreamlike stream of consciousness tonality to it that is really very disturbing.

[richard1984]

Something like this then.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1336/541676694_0a43e75575.jpg

Yeah! That's acceptable. It may not recognize "The Importance of Tact," but at least it bears more resemblance to the truth than the other image does. ;)

[cmlazar]

Issues like that one, or the previous artwork, remain non-issues until someone from the media or opposition drags... them.. up..... and makes... hmmmm... them into issues. Would you rather 10,000 Ron Paul supporters who met your behavioral standards, or 300,000,000 Ron Paul supporters with very diverse tastes in humor and artwork; all standing together for freedom? Tactics are critical but when you're fighting your way up from the bottom, you use what you've got.

I would rather Ron Paul supporters not use Nazi propaganda posters and talk about Dr. Paul "tea-bagging" anyone.

[richard1984]

The site is marked by what I think is technically called "looseness of associations." There's a somewhat dreamlike stream of consciousness tonality to it that is really very disturbing.

I know what you mean (though I didn't really look that closely at the site itself). It all started with the address of the website itself: www.ronpaulmoneybomb.com. Now, having websites for specific "money bombs" (like thisnovember5th.com) is one thing, but ronpaulmoneybomb.com seems to be too into the bomb aspect (especially after looking at the other pictures around the one being discussed).
There's just a little too much focus on the bomb aspect for me to be comfortable with. You know?

[Corydoras]

I would rather Ron Paul supporters not use Nazi propaganda posters and talk about Dr. Paul "tea-bagging" anyone.

QFT!

[Mark Rushmore]

I would rather Ron Paul supporters not use Nazi propaganda posters and talk about Dr. Paul "tea-bagging" anyone.

Well why not get off this site and go work for the Giuliani campaign? Eventually perhaps you can become Rudy's A.G., then you and him can just decree such things against the law and torture anyone who dares seek solace in the humor of misappropriated artwork? Not to start detracting from the message with this sort of bickering, but when you start going on about "Nazi propaganda" you sound very much like you yourself are trying to get a meme started and associated with the Ron Paul campaign. If you are just personally offended and taking it out on a stranger (the artist) who you know nothing about other than that you'd like to curb his expression, I sympathize with the offense, but please think about the angle you are coming from - censoring art is always a sore point in civilized debate, and I apologize if I myself am going over the line in response.

[Duckman]

side note: was that really nazi prop?

Yes. I had seen it before here:

http://www.reason.com/blog/show/119227.html

[richard1984]

I would rather Ron Paul supporters not use Nazi propaganda posters and talk about Dr. Paul "tea-bagging" anyone.

HAHA! Yeah. I was like, "What the fuck?!" when I saw the "tea-bagging" thing, too. I mean seriously.... What are some people thinking (unless they just don't know what "tea-bagging" is). I mean, Ron Paul is already a little "quirky" looking on stage (which I find endearing), but I know that some people may question his..."preferences" (to try to be as subtle as possible :o)...before they learn about him (and I bet that many of the people most likely to question/form prejudices against him for the subtle reason alluded to before are just those "conservative," mostly pro-war, homophobic/ignorant Republicans that we could use the support of).

(note: Please don't take what I said the wrong way. If you're half-aware, you know what I'm saying. I tried to be a delicate/subtle/vague as I could, but it is a real issue. Thankfully, I don't see the "tea-bagging" thing catching on. :rolleyes:)

[austin356]

http://www.ronpaulmoneybomb.com/images/terror.jpg



Why are you posting Nazi war propaganda on there?

[cmlazar]

Well why not get off this site and go work for the Giuliani campaign? Eventually perhaps you can become Rudy's A.G., then you and him can just decree such things against the law and torture anyone who dares seek solace in the humor of misappropriated artwork? Not to start detracting from the message with this sort of bickering, but when you start going on about "Nazi propaganda" you sound very much like you yourself are trying to get a meme started and associated with the Ron Paul campaign. If you are just personally offended and taking it out on a stranger (the artist) who you know nothing about other than that you'd like to curb his expression, I sympathize with the offense, but please think about the angle you are coming from - censoring art is always a sore point in civilized debate, and I apologize if I myself am going over the line in response.

I'm not trying to censor art, nor am I personally offended by a photoshopped Nazi propaganda poster. I am saying that it is an incredibly bad idea to use such art in support of Dr. Paul.

And yes, your response was over the line.

[richard1984]

Well why not get off this site and go work for the Giuliani campaign? Eventually perhaps you can become Rudy's A.G., then you and him can just decree such things against the law and torture anyone who dares seek solace in the humor of misappropriated artwork? Not to start detracting from the message with this sort of bickering, but when you start going on about "Nazi propaganda" you sound very much like you yourself are trying to get a meme started and associated with the Ron Paul campaign. If you are just personally offended and taking it out on a stranger (the artist) who you know nothing about other than that you'd like to curb his expression, I sympathize with the offense, but please think about the angle you are coming from - censoring art is always a sore point in civilized debate, and I apologize if I myself am going over the line in response.

Dude, what the hell are you talking about?! And why do you feel significant enough to make a completely off-base, uninformed, rude comment like that? Note the title of this thread: "The Important of Tact." You, sir, have none. And using the word 'meme' (which, surprisingly, I haven't seen used very much around here) doesn't make you look any more intelligent than you are, seeing as how your post is just wrong. So feel free (and obligated) to get off your high horse.

You need to learn a few things about humility and respect, buddy. You're no asset to anyone until you do. (Unless, of course, you yourself are working for the Giuliani campaign, in which case I would say that you've found your niche. ;))

[tmg19103]

Eric and Jesse,

Be cool and remove the pic mentioned in this post as well as references to "teabagging".

Thanks!

[klamath]

Well why not get off this site and go work for the Giuliani campaign? Eventually perhaps you can become Rudy's A.G., then you and him can just decree such things against the law and torture anyone who dares seek solace in the humor of misappropriated artwork? Not to start detracting from the message with this sort of bickering, but when you start going on about "Nazi propaganda" you sound very much like you yourself are trying to get a meme started and associated with the Ron Paul campaign. If you are just personally offended and taking it out on a stranger (the artist) who you know nothing about other than that you'd like to curb his expression, I sympathize with the offense, but please think about the angle you are coming from - censoring art is always a sore point in civilized debate, and I apologize if I myself am going over the line in response.

Yeaw, just some innocent artwork associated with Ron Paul money bomb.

I say what campaign are you working for. Certainly not for RP's

"A 1944 Nazi propaganda poster titled "LIBERATORS", which perfectly epitomizes many perennially-recurring themes of anti-Americanism. Published in 1944 by the Dutch SS-Storm magazine that then belonged to a radical SS wing of the National Socialist Movement in the Netherlands.

Text contained in image: "Miss America", "Miss Victory", "Ku Klux Klan", "JITTERBUG - Triumph of Civilization", "World's Most Beautiful Leg". Symbols contained in image: reverse side of 48-star United States flag, WW2-era Army Air Corps roundel, dollar sign, Star of David. Dutch caption at bottom (proferred by European gullible "all-ears" dupe) reads: "De USA zullen de Europeesche Kultuur van den ondergang redden", meaning something like "The USA will save European culture from decline". The poster was made by the Norwegian Harald Damsleth [1].

Some motifs contained in this poster:

The immorality of beauty pageants (unclad "Miss America", scantily-clad "Miss Victory", "The World's Most Beautiful Leg") -- or more generally, the putative sexual laxness of American women, a theme which strongly resonates with extremists today.
Gangsterism and gun violence (the arm of an escaped convict holding a submachine gun).
Anti-black violence (a lynching noose, a Ku Klux Klan hood).
General violence of American society, in addition to the above (boxing-glove which grasps the money-bag).
Mistreatement of Native Americans ("Miss America" wears plains-Indian head-dress).
The pure materialism or commercialism of America, to the detriment of any spirit or soul (moneybag with "$" symbol).
The presence of blacks in U.S. population, contributing to its "mongrelization", adding undesirably "primitive" elements to American popular culture, and constituting a potential danger to the white race (strongly muscular arms of a black male, a stereotypically-caricatured black couple dancing the "JITTERBUG - Triumph of Civilization" in birdcage, which is portrayed as a degraded animalistic ritual).
Decadence of American popular culture, and its pernicious influence on the rest of the world (dancing of jitterbug, hand holds phonograph record, figure of a European gullible "all-ears" dupe in lower foreground).
Indiscriminate U.S. military violence (bloodied bomb for foot, metal legs, military aircraft wings), threatening the European cultural landmarks at lower right.
Hence the falsity of American claims to be "Liberators". (The word "Liberators" was also the name of a U.S. bomber plane.)
American jingoism and war fervor (a business-suited arm literally "beating the drum" of militarism, "Miss Victory" and her drum-majorette cap and boots).
Malevolent influence of Jews and Freemasons (Star of David on Masonic apron descending from drum, caricatured Jewish figure holding on to money-bag).
Demonization of national symbols of the United States ("Miss Victory" waves the reverse side of 48-star U.S. flag, and the WW2-era Army Air Corps roundel -- of small red disk within white star on large blue disk -- is shown on one of the wings).
This poster was also printed in a full-color version with the title "KULTUR-TERROR" in large blue letters at the top (instead of "LIBERATORS" in red)[2]."

[Mark Rushmore]

Dude, what the hell are you talking about?! And why do you feel significant enough to make a completely off-base, uninformed, rude comment like that? Note the title of this thread: "The Important of Tact." You, sir, have none. And using the word 'meme' (which, surprisingly, I haven't seen used very much around here) doesn't make you look any more intelligent than you are, seeing as how your post is just wrong. So feel free (and obligated) to get off your high horse.

You need to learn a few things about humility and respect, buddy. You're no asset to anyone until you do. (Unless, of course, you yourself are working for the Giuliani campaign, in which case I would say that you've found your niche. ;))

It wouldn't be as rich if you didn't have the first amendment sitting in your sig right under the comment ;). But in the end I'm an American. As such I'm inclined to bow to groupthink. To that end: I propose we file hate crime suits against the web host until they cough up the IP of whoever posted that monstrous visual, track down the offender, and have Ron Paul call a press conference to disassociate himself from "that sort". We can call our mission "Express Train to a Free America".

Totally missing the point am I? This thread is not about censoring the artist, but merely about sharing a handful of opinions on approaches to aiding Ron Paul's campaign? Then let me introduce a bit of tact: don't go searching the internet for images that display your candidate's supporters in the worst light, then go posting them onto a forum that some might confuse for an official forum, only to consistently pump out posts that have "Ron Paul" and "Nazi" in the same paragraph. It lacks a certain... je ne sais pas?... tact?

Suddenly the nuanced distinctions between a libertarian running as a libertarian and a libertarian running as a republican come into focus. I leave you gentlemen to carry on, I will lead my high horse back onto the streets, where there are less distractions from what truly matters here.

[LFOD]

Good grief. "Pre-emptive terror"??? Use of a Nazi propaganda imagery? There's politically tone-deaf, and then there's this, which takes it to a whole new level. What is so hard to understand about the merits of NOT associating violent imagery with this campaign!???

I'm going to write to the guys responsible for ronpaulmoneybomb.com and suggest that they remove that image immediately. I appreciate all their efforts with the site, but putting that image up there is so utterly misguided it's hard to believe.

[robatsu]

The best way to kill a bad idea in a distributed self motivating effort such as the RP grassroots campaign is to ignore it. If it is truly a bad idea, most others will ignore it as well. Time and again, experience has shown that efforts to discipline the grassroots by suppressing this or that idea deemed bad by some just leads to a lot of hot air. If you don't like it (and I don't have an opinion, fwiw), ignore it. If it is a bad idea, it will die from apathy.

[work2win]

In everything you do related to this campaign, you should be asking yourself: "will this elicit the response I want from the audience?" Selfishness and inflexibility in the face of our ever growing audience will only hurt the campaign. This is a delicate balance because we want to inspire supporters without spooking them (not everyone is as hardcore as us). We also need to be careful not to get cocky as a result of our recent successes.

WTF is up with that image? That is one of the weirdest/scariest/WTF images I've seen in recent internet times. I do not think that will elicit the response we are looking for.

[richard1984]

It wouldn't be as rich if you didn't have the first amendment sitting in your sig right under the comment ;). But in the end I'm an American. As such I'm inclined to bow to groupthink. To that end: I propose we file hate crime suits against the web host until they cough up the IP of whoever posted that monstrous visual, track down the offender, and have Ron Paul call a press conference to disassociate himself from "that sort". We can call our mission "Express Train to a Free America".

Totally missing the point am I? This thread is not about censoring the artist, but merely about sharing a handful of opinions on approaches to aiding Ron Paul's campaign? Then let me introduce a bit of tact: don't go searching the internet for images that display your candidate's supporters in the worst light, then go posting them onto a forum that some might confuse for an official forum, only to consistently pump out posts that have "Ron Paul" and "Nazi" in the same paragraph. It lacks a certain... je ne sais pas?... tact?

Suddenly the nuanced distinctions between a libertarian running as a libertarian and a libertarian running as a republican come into focus. I leave you gentlemen to carry on, I will lead my high horse back onto the streets, where there are less distractions from what truly matters here.

I'm definitely not trying to censor you, dude. Where do I express opposition to your freedom of speech?

It seems to me as if you misinterpreted my disagreement and disapproval of the image from the website and your previous post as a desire to censor and control what you post. You can go around spouting your bullshit all day if you want to. I don't care. And that website can keep that picture up for all I care. But they should only do so if they want to be labeled as a troll or whatever.
The First Amendment certainly doesn't speak against individuals boycotting, does it? :rolleyes: That seems like a right that a free person should have. And certainly there's nothing wrong with critique--especially when warranted and justified.

The point of this thread is to make the point that Nazi propaganda does not belong on a pro-Ron Paul website--especially one whose address is www.ronpaulmoneybomb.com.

So yeah, last time I checked, we were trying to have a discussion on this thread about something of concern to us, and then your butted your cocky ass in with that uncalled for, largely incorrect comment (it is Nazi propaganda!).

Now, I'm not trying to censor you, restrict your freedom of speech, or anything like that. I'm just pulling a Bill O'Reilly and tell you to "Shut Up!"

Consider this: If a group of us had been standing around having this conversation in person and then out of nowhere you jumped in with a comment like that, you'd better believe that there would be some negative retaliation from us. I doubt you'd be so rude and condescending in person, though.

If you relish your right to be an asshole, then please be consistent and respect my right to be an asshole back.

And besides, Amendment I says that "Congress shall make no law...." The Constitution is a contract between the People and the State. It doesn't mean, for example, that I can't do anything about my child using bad words. Nor does it mean that I must suspend all opinion.
So really, man, I have no idea what you're talking about.


"I disapprove of what what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

So take comfort in that, friend. :cool:

[richard1984]

The best way to kill a bad idea in a distributed self motivating effort such as the RP grassroots campaign is to ignore it. If it is truly a bad idea, most others will ignore it as well. Time and again, experience has shown that efforts to discipline the grassroots by suppressing this or that idea deemed bad by some just leads to a lot of hot air. If you don't like it (and I don't have an opinion, fwiw), ignore it. If it is a bad idea, it will die from apathy.

A lot of the time, though, such efforts and discussions take place after-the-fact (like the discussions about referencing V for Vendetta or changing the phrase "money bomb" to something else).

This is different, though. I don't even know what the "idea" behind using that image is. I don't know if it was an act of ignorance (in which case, someone needs to be informed), the act of a troll (in which case we inform people about it and encourage them to do just that), or what.

This is www.ronpaulmoneybomb.com! I don't think that ignoring it is going to fix anything. ;) You know?

[Johncjackson]

The income tax is basically a form of slavery, isn't it?

It's a lot more voluntary than actual slavery and the underground Tax railroad is larger and safer. There is just no comparison. While theoretically the government can collect taxes from the end of a gun barrel, I don't have any chains on me or anyone whipping me or using actual force over the income tax.

From a certain deep philosophical standpoint- Yes. From the most likely perception and reality- No.

[freelance]

I agree, that one is terrible. The effect is so bad, it almost defies words. Does anybody here actually know the people who run this site?

WOW! I've gotta agree totally!

Oh wait, suppose it's not one of us doing this?

[pcosmar]

I think it has it's desired effect. It evokes anger, and disgust. It is all the things to be angry at.

Or are you in favor of the "preemptive terror' that we have been spreading?

[Nefertiti]

Ignore it...and if it is questionable ethically or legally, flag it for the moderators to delete. Don't respond to it though saying it is a bad idea as that will just bump it up.

[constituent]

There's just a little too much focus on the bomb aspect for me to be comfortable with. You know?

yes, and the whole star of david bit. i didn't notice that at first, i guess 'cuz visually i was drawn toward the top of the picture....

that's out there, one could almost say out there "on purpose"

hmmmm.... who's got that domain registered i wonder?

[kern802]

Mods, please move to Hot Topics. Can't you guys see the forum is just getting trolled and stirred up by the opposition?

[constituent]

yes kern, clearly.

for months now, yourself?

[Brinck Slattery]

Yeah, the "Preemptive terror" image has gotta go. Purge it from the interwebs. I can't see how any Nazi propaganda, no matter how cleverly photoshopped, has a place in the Ron Paul campaign. And to all the people who are crying censorship, shut your whiny mouth. It's censorship if the government tells you to stop. It's common sense when your fellow supporters tell you that Nazi war posters are not good to use as a promotional item for a presidential campaign.

And to whatever fool was saying "well if you didn't put "nazi" and "Ron Paul" in the same post, then no one would ever find it because it wouldn't be on search engines derrrrrrrrr" - give me a break. It wouldn't need to be mentioned if people stopped putting up these idiotic, counterproductive images.

As far as the "teabagging" thing, again, common sense. Would you tell your grandmother, your sister, your college professor, that your candidate is going to teabag someone? It's classless and crude, and it reinforces the image of Ron Paul supporters as spoiled, loudmouth teenagers.

This campaign is just now breaking into the mainstream. We are starting to be mentioned daily in the mainstream media, and we are receiving favorable press. This will help to convert the people who still don't know who Ron Paul is, who don't think too much about politics, and hear his message and listen to it. I'll be damned if I let some self-righteous prigs with a martyr complex drag my candidate down into the mud.

[Duckman]

The goal of this thread was to call attention to this fact this image is on ronpaulmoneybomb.com. It seems the image is offensive to some RP supporters (myself included), has Nazi origins, and will be hard to explain to the MSM should they ever focus on it. The title of this thread is "the importance of tact," suggesting that it's a little tact-less to have this image publicly associated with Ron Paul.

I don't think this is trollbait. I think this is a legitimate concern some RP supporters have about that site. What remains to be seen is whether the operators of that site care.

[NinjaPirate]

But what about the Native American and the lady holding the USA flag on the thing's shoulders? That's not what we're fighting against!
That's why I just don't get it. :confused: Maybe if it were a little bigger and I could read it....

http://www.ronpaulmoneybomb.com/images/terror.jpg

The image didn't leave a good impresion on me at first glance. But after looking at it from a different perspective, it may represent how the rest of the World may SEE Americans.

Either way it didn't give me any warm fuzzies.

[ladyliberty]

#1 I like the Veterans Day Money Bomb
#2 I like the Boston Tea Party Money Bomb (I am signed up for both)
#3 I think the graphic is controversial and needs to be deleted - it is too open to interpretation and could be used negatively. I never even really looked at it. Replace it with the Flower-grenade guy graphic - that is more what a "money bomb" is about.
#4 Never equate IRS with slavery. Not good for PR. (I didnt not know there was supposed to be an Emmancipation Day Money Bomb????)
#5 For "all out" satire - and keeping with the "bomb" theme - we should issue Freedom Alerts just before the Money Bombs are dropped ... red, orange, yellow, etc. Because when Dr. Paul becomes POTUS, we will be a free people once again!

my 2 cents

[dspectre]

**Withdraw my statement, I disagree with it.**

[klamath]

I would be all for the ignore idea except that this is the second web site to come up when people type in RP money bomb. The whole money /bomb Ron Paul thing has become tied together for good since this is what made RP break out to the MSM. Everthing about that poster is bad. This is not how foreigners view us this this is how the nazi Storm magazine in Denmark viewed us in 1944. The black arms are the representation of the how the white race in America is non pure. Everything about this poster is against what we want to be associated with RP.

[leipo]

For those of you who can't make out the symbolism of the poster, here is a bigger Dutch version:

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/f/f8/Liberators-Kultur-Terror-Anti-Americanism-1944-Nazi-Propaganda-Poster.jpg

The artwork is amazing & very powerful but i have to agree that it doesn't fit Ron Paul's campaign at all. It's nazi propaganda afterall.

[constituent]

on nazi propaganda:

for what it is worth, frank capra made very clever work of it in his american war prop. film
Why We Fight....

check it out, it might give you (maybe, i don't know what this persons motivations are so, purely speculation) a little sense into what the subject of this "controversy" was thinking...

who knows?

[cmlazar]

Bumping this because it needs to be read by everyone, and because the image has not yet been taken down from ronpaulmoneybomb.com

[Pete]

yes, and the whole star of david bit. i didn't notice that at first, i guess 'cuz visually i was drawn toward the top of the picture....

that's out there, one could almost say out there "on purpose"

hmmmm.... who's got that domain registered i wonder?

Administrative Contact:
Nordstrom, Eric eric@nordstrom1.com
PSC 41 Box 6823
APO AE, NY 09464
US
208-580-1830

[Mark Rushmore]

Bumping this because it needs to be read by everyone, and because the image has not yet been taken down from ronpaulmoneybomb.com

Thank goodness. I would hate to think you are bumping the only thread you've ever posted on just to keep the shitstorm going and spread your taint.

[Duckman]

Thank goodness. I would hate to think you are bumping the only thread you've ever posted on just to keep the shitstorm going and spread your taint.

With all due respect, the only taint here involves this Nazi imagery. Associating imagery like this will Ron Paul will HURT his campaign. There are times when you need to do things you may not want to do because it is the right thing to do politically. Is having this image on the site really worth the risk that it might turn off potential voters?

[wsc321]

Thank goodness. I would hate to think you are bumping the only thread you've ever posted on just to keep the shitstorm going and spread your taint.

Mark - I don't believe the personal attacks are justifiable. How in the world can you presume to question the motives to the author of this thread? I think I read somewhere that Beethoven said something like, "People mostly see in others what they are themselves." So, I'd suggest you question your own motives, first.

Whatever the substance of your argument may be, it doesn't matter in my book when you fail the requirement of civil and respectful debate. If I were a moderator I'd warn you about the personal attacks, and ban you if you can't reign it in. You're not doing Ron Paul's campaign any good with that attitude.

If you need to curse and insult someone, feel free to send me a PM and get it off your chest. Once that's done, I wouldn't even mind taking the debate back to square one with you if you're interested. But for the good of the campaign at least: lay off the personal attacks. We've all got to work together until Ron Paul is in the White House.

PS: I've actually got this theory that in 99% of the cases, GOP Ron Paul opposition cannot debate Dr. Paul's positions without resorting to name calling and personal attacks. Seriously! For that reason, if for no other, I encourage everyone that supports Ron Paul: do not call names. Do not insult. Be 100% respectful and courteous and shine the light on inability of the opposition to do the same. I bet most voting Americans would agree that someone incapable civil debate is not capable of objective thought.

[adpierce]

I think we should simply focus on the "weekend of liberty" the passage of the Bill of Rights coupled with the powerful cultural significance of the Boston Tea Party will be enough to shock the world ... again. Anyways, Dec 18th isn't really necessary. I wish there could be a moneybomb everyday in december, but the truth is Christmas is coming up... and even though we all might want to give everything we've got to Dr. Paul's campaign, family and friends are a priority as well especially during the holiday season. Let's rock out the weekend of liberty and let the media flip out trying to understand it all .... well over again.


Umm? I was referring to the December 18th moneybomb in honor of the 13th Amendment abolishing slavery as proposed by a few forum members. I was NOT referring to the December 15th/16th Tea Party event. In my opinion the Tea Party moneybomb is a fantastic idea, and we should focus on that.



I'm not denying someone put work into it. I'm just saying that using photoshopped war propaganda featuring the KKK, caged black people, etc. is a bad call.



No matter how you interpret it, the fact remains that it has some really offensive imagery that we do not want associated Dr. Paul or ourselves associated with.

[Mark Rushmore]

Mark - I don't believe the personal attacks are justifiable. How in the world can you presume to question the motives to the author of this thread? I think I read somewhere that Beethoven said something like, "People mostly see in others what they are themselves." So, I'd suggest you question your own motives, first.

You are absolutely, 100% correct. I am exactly the sort of person that would go onto an opponent's forums and dredge up some questionable detail from the personal website of a supporter of that candidate; only to gently and subtly introduce it out of context to reinforce a toxic cloud of "Nazi" connotation to that campaigns grassroots support.

Because it is exactly the sort of tactic I might use, it is clear as all day that this is what is being done. I'm sorry if others don't see it, but this whole thread belongs in the "Hot Topics" forum ASAP. Again, all IMHO.

[Margo37]

and will be hard to explain to the MSM should they ever focus on it.

Exactly what they will do too ignoring the rest of a beautiful website, wonderful videos, lots of information I'd love to show but that picture is just too weird and will be miscontrued.

[richard1984]

Thank goodness. I would hate to think you are bumping the only thread you've ever posted on just to keep the shitstorm going and spread your taint.

No way! :eek:

Dude...I can't believe you're still at it!
I was really regretting "getting into it" on this thread last night because it was linked to on that reporter guy's article (yes, I realize I'm being vague), but you just don't stop do you?

Man oh man.... How sad. I really thought the negative attitude would be behind you.

At least I don't feel so bad anymore about being an ass last night. So I thank you for that! :p

[Revolution9]

Dude, what the hell are you talking about?! And why do you feel significant enough to make a completely off-base, uninformed, rude comment like that? Note the title of this thread: "The Important of Tact." You, sir, have none. And using the word 'meme' (which, surprisingly, I haven't seen used very much around here) doesn't make you look any more intelligent than you are, seeing as how your post is just wrong. So feel free (and obligated) to get off your high horse.

You need to learn a few things about humility and respect, buddy. You're no asset to anyone until you do. (Unless, of course, you yourself are working for the Giuliani campaign, in which case I would say that you've found your niche. ;))

What an amazing display of hypocrisy. In one fell swoop you whirled around and knocked your own paradigm of politeness into the dirt. I happen to think this type of bickering over artwork censorship is totalitarian bent. Dictators ALWAYS co-opt the artist first. Then they are forced to produce propaganda for the psychopaths. They are dangerous to the psychopath because they train to see things as they are and not what we are told to see it as.

I can see the nature of the symbolisms in the poster, which reminds me of albium cover artwork of the late 60's/early 70's. It is a many armed and legged beast with weapons of destruction as its hands and feet. Its stomach feeds on captured souls and human lives. It head is hooded as an executioner. It wields destructions as it stomps over the landscape. It is composed of many ideologies..none of them humanistic or divine. It is the New World Order.

The artist, though working for Nazi masters, has still left his mark of symbolism as he understood the war machine. Rubens in his Last Judegemnt had the hounds of hell pulling the head of the Pope who commissioned it into the dirt. A grfx artist who was hired to produce a full page ad for the new Texas Dept Of Homeland Security Head appointed by Bush who took out a full page Sunday ad in the biggest Texas newspaper. The asswipe that wanted the ad wanted an air force general in the ad. The artist put a Luftwaffe General in and had it approved three times before it got printed. The artist knew who he was working for. The truth was ironic so the artist displayed it in a manner the jerk hiring him could not detect. I have done it myself for quirky hard nosed clientele who think they bought me instead of my skill and talent.

Beware that you are not the little flag waving drag queen sitting on the shoulder of the war machine waving about the flag for empire. It speaks into the war machines' left/snister ear. Was it not US banking interests funding Krupp. Did the orders to invade Poland and start WWII not get issued from Harriman-Bush?

As for the 18th/slavery/income tax tie-in.. No.. A resounding NO!.. Bad and stupid idea. Someone is trying to set off a stink bomb. Frankly. coming to America from Canada and living in the South I think it is high time people get over the damned slavery issue. It is an Hegelian paradigm hoisted on the backs of innocents to imprint them with a guilt..as a slave or a master..when in truth, in their life they were never either as the inculcation attempts to entwine. They were an individual with the rights granted naturally to them at birth by the greater good of things.

Censoring artwork due to your perception of it? Art nazi..

Best Regards
Randy

[Mark Rushmore]

No way! :eek:

Dude...I can't believe you're still at it!
I was really regretting "getting into it" on this thread last night because it was linked to on that reporter guy's article (yes, I realize I'm being vague), but you just don't stop do you?

Man oh man.... How sad. I really thought the negative attitude would be behind you.

At least I don't feel so bad anymore about being an ass last night. So I thank you for that! :p

Just trying to save Ron Paul from the most obvious smear card that's been dangled so far, if that's negative.. shrug. And for making you feel better about being an ass, you're welcome ;).

[richard1984]

What an amazing display of hypocrisy. In one fell swoop you whirled around and knocked your own paradigm of politeness into the dirt. I happen to think this type of bickering over artwork censorship is totalitarian bent. Dictators ALWAYS co-opt the artist first. Then they are forced to produce propaganda for the psychopaths. They are dangerous to the psychopath because they train to see things as they are and not what we are told to see it as.

Tell me about it! That's why I was feeling really guilty. I was actually coming back over here to censor/edit my posts.
When I was writing all of that crap I was supposed to be studying for a test I had today, but I was still worn out from the tests I had earlier in the week and the extreme lack of sleep I've gotten (I slept some Tuesday night, but that's it), and on top of that my Adderall was kicking into high gear. So I got completely carried away on here. :( I was too tired to be typing/carrying on a conversation, but too amp'ed up on the Adderall and coffee to stop and let it be. Needless to say, I went overboard.

Why did that guy have to link to this thread?!

Do you think I should go back and edit my posts? I have absolutely no problem doing that. (I still haven't slept, so I doubt my judgment.)

[Mark Rushmore]

Why did that guy have to link to this thread?!

Don't discount the possibility that it was his thread to begin with ;).

edit- I should point out that I don't even know what story or reporter you're talking about, so the suggestion may be implausible. Nonetheless the whole thread has been a pretty straightforward setup from the start.

[richard1984]

Just trying to save Ron Paul from the most obvious smear card that's been dangled so far, if that's negative.. shrug. And for making you feel better about being an ass, you're welcome ;).

It was just your tone and biting sarcasm that were negative.
And unfortunately, Revolution9 canceled out your affirming affect--i.e., put my idiocy back into perspective.
But it's cool.
It's just that I'm really not a mean person at all (though Adderall does tend to make me really irritable and snappy--though that's usually more in-person), so it troubles my conscience when I am...especially when I'm so sleep deprived and, thus, have weak mental defenses.

But whatever.

[richard1984]

Don't discount the possibility that it was his thread to begin with ;).

edit- I should point out that I don't even know what story or reporter you're talking about, so the suggestion may be implausible. Nonetheless the whole thread has been a pretty straightforward setup from the start.

Ha. Actually, I thought that, too. It just seemed really weird that he had been lurking around for a long time "gather information," and then he concluded his article with a quote from the opening post of this thread--which was started last night, I do believe.
It does seem rather strange timing.... But I don't know anything. :rolleyes:

[cmlazar]

Don't discount the possibility that it was his thread to begin with ;).

edit- I should point out that I don't even know what story or reporter you're talking about, so the suggestion may be implausible. Nonetheless the whole thread has been a pretty straightforward setup from the start.

You have got to be kidding me. Sure, it was a straight forward setup: that we should be careful and watch what we post/say/do as Ron Paul supporters. If you can't see the wisdom in that, then I'm speechless.

[Mark Rushmore]

that we should be careful and watch what we post/say/do as Ron Paul supporters

...and therefore shouldn't start threads on these forums drawing attention to one insignificant image amidst a dozen images on a page that is unaffiliated in any official way with the campaign, but is merely part of a nation-wide grassroots effort with thousands on thousands of members, meanwhile insinuating that this is merely an example of a "tactlessness" rampant enough you feel the need to address it.

Now we're in agreement.

[TooConservative]

If they don't get rid of this image I will withdraw all donations for the money bombs.

That looks like a KKK hood on the figure. And most people will think that's a Star of David on the banner hanging from the drum between its legs.

Ugh.

We should boycott any site that uses graphics like these.

Dr. Paul's campaign should not be associated with such imagery.

[TooConservative]

...I can see the nature of the symbolisms in the poster, which reminds me of albium cover artwork of the late 60's/early 70's. It is a many armed and legged beast with weapons of destruction as its hands and feet. Its stomach feeds on captured souls and human lives. It head is hooded as an executioner. It wields destructions as it stomps over the landscape. It is composed of many ideologies..none of them humanistic or divine. It is the New World Order.

That hooded head is not the loose black mask of an executioner (the noose represents lynchings and executions). That pointy white hood is a KKK hood.


Censoring artwork due to your perception of it? Art nazi..

Pointing out that something looks a whole lot like Nazi art does not make you an art Nazi.

[constituent]

Thank goodness. I would hate to think you are bumping the only thread you've ever posted on just to keep the shitstorm going and spread your taint.

::constituent's new friend::

lol

[constituent]

Administrative Contact:
Nordstrom, Eric eric@nordstrom1.com
PSC 41 Box 6823
APO AE, NY 09464
US
208-580-1830

thank you pete....

now correct if im' wrong, but isn't APO AE a


:eek:


military address?

[constituent]

What an amazing display of hypocrisy. In one fell swoop you whirled around and knocked your own paradigm of politeness into the dirt. I happen to think this type of bickering over artwork censorship is totalitarian bent. Dictators ALWAYS co-opt the artist first. Then they are forced to produce propaganda for the psychopaths. They are dangerous to the psychopath because they train to see things as they are and not what we are told to see it as.

I can see the nature of the symbolisms in the poster, which reminds me of albium cover artwork of the late 60's/early 70's. It is a many armed and legged beast with weapons of destruction as its hands and feet. Its stomach feeds on captured souls and human lives. It head is hooded as an executioner. It wields destructions as it stomps over the landscape. It is composed of many ideologies..none of them humanistic or divine. It is the New World Order.

The artist, though working for Nazi masters, has still left his mark of symbolism as he understood the war machine. Rubens in his Last Judegemnt had the hounds of hell pulling the head of the Pope who commissioned it into the dirt. A grfx artist who was hired to produce a full page ad for the new Texas Dept Of Homeland Security Head appointed by Bush who took out a full page Sunday ad in the biggest Texas newspaper. The asswipe that wanted the ad wanted an air force general in the ad. The artist put a Luftwaffe General in and had it approved three times before it got printed. The artist knew who he was working for. The truth was ironic so the artist displayed it in a manner the jerk hiring him could not detect. I have done it myself for quirky hard nosed clientele who think they bought me instead of my skill and talent.

Beware that you are not the little flag waving drag queen sitting on the shoulder of the war machine waving about the flag for empire. It speaks into the war machines' left/snister ear. Was it not US banking interests funding Krupp. Did the orders to invade Poland and start WWII not get issued from Harriman-Bush?

...

Censoring artwork due to your perception of it? Art nazi..

Best Regards
Randy

Thank God for Randy! So much truth in that statement it borders on "insanity." :D

[constituent]

It was just your tone and biting sarcasm that were negative.
And unfortunately, Revolution9 canceled out your affirming affect--i.e., put my idiocy back into perspective.
But it's cool.
It's just that I'm really not a mean person at all (though Adderall does tend to make me really irritable and snappy--though that's usually more in-person), so it troubles my conscience when I am...especially when I'm so sleep deprived and, thus, have weak mental defenses.

But whatever.

say man, make of this what you will but you have to get off of the adderall. i was on it for years and that s* made me paranoid, nervous, almost completely "psychotic" or whatever. It was a long transition and it took me about 2 and 1/2 yrs. to notice it. someone at shire got a reformulation bug in the way they salt out the freebase dex, to produce the pills and there is some seriously bent, bioaccumulating garbage in those things (btw, that could potentially cause brain damage in young children, yes that sweet flavor is phenyalinine...)

seriously richard, talk to your doc about either getting on the straight dex. (just called dexadrine) or (depending on your doc., this might be a mega no-go...lol) the best, though thanks to draconian drug policies often the 'last line' of treatment is desoxyn (but even that, when you get down to the relative percentage of d and l isomers there's some funny business going on).

Whatever you do, stay away from the XRs, and the non-stimulant drugs like Strattera b/c they will destroy your stomach on very short order (anecdotal of course, but i've had serious problems ever since taking strattera, that did not exist prior to taking it for about 5 or 6 months, worse yet i was always tired and took two to three naps a day, which doesn't fly on the job).

[...]
but for real richard.... that sort of thing will keep happening, every once in a while at first, but after a couple of years you'll realize it's been happening (almost) everyday.

you don't have to "kick the drugs" or whatever (personally, i'm a firm believer in "better living through chemistry,") but if you're already flying off the handle w/ your addys now i'd run far far away from dat chit man (and personally have)...

ps. make sure you're eating enough, often times those symptoms are related to malnutrition.

[micahnelson]

I think the line about "Ron Paul will Tea Bag them all" is pretty inappropriate. I see the Humor, but its not something you say about a statesman like Dr. Paul. I don't think he would be happy to see that there, if he knew what it meant.

[constituent]

I think the line about "Ron Paul will Tea Bag them all" is pretty inappropriate. I see the Humor, but its not something you say about a statesman like Dr. Paul. I don't think he would be happy to see that there, if he knew what it meant.

yea, that's one major problem with the movement:

its sausagefest/need a girlfriend (other than rosie palmeroy), king of junior high, frat-god mentality.

[micahnelson]

Yeah... we could argue the finer points... but I think thats the only thing that really NEEDs to go. I consider myself pretty open minded and I don't like that one bit, because of how it directly denigrates our candidate.

[Corydoras]

Did anybody actually write to the site about any of this?