Should Lobbying be Illegal? (POLL)

[Kuthreck]

Can this be done? Why not? It seems so sensible and overly obvious. By removing Politicians from the Private Sector we allow for more Economic Growth and Prosperity. There are no more winners in losers chosen from Politics, its the free market at work.

I guarantee you that if there was something on the ballot along the lines of:

No Private, Union, or Otherwise Individual may act in Lobbying with a Political Figure, Law Maker, or Otherwise.

(Of course in LAW Speak)

This would pass OVERWHELMINGLY by the American people 90+%. Why don't we make this happen? Is there anything stopping us, or do you disagree with my statements, and why?

[lib3rtarian]

Wouldn't prohibiting lobbying be a violation of the 1st Amendment?

[LibertyEsq]

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

[Crotale]

It shouldn't exist, there shouldn't be any power to buy. Anyway, not sure how relevant this is to Grassroots Central?

[iamse7en]

LibertyEsq: exactly.

[low preference guy]

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

/thread

[Kuthreck]

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

I understand this but is it not the $$$ involved that ultimately drives the decisions? I understand this is more then a simple black and white issue. Is there not some way to remove the incentive for business to collude with politicians for personal gain?

[Dr.3D]

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

So is giving a political figure money to do you favors considered free speech? Somehow I thought that was bribery. :confused:

[LibertyEsq]

So is giving a political figure money to do you favors considered free speech? Somehow I thought that was bribery. :confused:

Isn't it already illegal for congressmen to accept personal gifts from businesses?

[CaptUSA]

If the government does not have the power to affect commerce, then lobbyist lose their incentive to lobby. To quote Cain, "make sure you're working on the right problem." Lobbying is a symptom of too much power. Fix the disease, the symptoms will subside.

[dannno]

I understand this but is it not the $$$ involved that ultimately drives the decisions? I understand this is more then a simple black and white issue. Is there not some way to remove the incentive for business to collude with politicians for personal gain?

How do you enforce that without violating people's right to free speech and voluntary transactions/associations?

It seems like it would be a lot easier if everybody understood the basics of the Constitution and ensured that the politicians they voted for voted along those lines.

If they don't, then vote them out and vote for someone who will. They did that in Ron Paul's district, we can do it in other districts.

[The Gold Standard]

If the politicians can't grant them favors, they have no reason to lobby them. That is how you stop the problem without trashing everyone's right to petition the government.

[thesnake742]

Lobbying, no. Corporate donations, yes.

[JorgeStevenson]

Just because something would pass with overwhelming support does not mean it's a good idea or that it's constitutional.

Obama already claims that he takes no money from lobbyists, yet his administration is making a case for being the most corrupt in history. Just because you take no money from registered lobbyists does not mean the cronyism will go away. People won't register as lobbyists, but they'll still perform the same function. Look at Newt Gingrich - he wasn't a lobbyist, was he? So is what he did at Freddie Mac something we should be promoting?

It's also unconstitutional. Making a case to my political representatives as to what I would like to see them do is part of free speech. And it would be downright unenforceable to limit people's abilities to do this.

I see a common thread in all the people who want to eliminate lobbying, have public campaign financing, reverse Citizens United, etc. - they all refuse to accept that it is our job to elect representatives who are not corrupt. All of these freedom-reducing "reform" laws are just there to deflect from the reality that the ultimate responsibility is ours. We get the politicians we deserve.

[LibertyEsq]

If the politicians can't grant them favors, they have no reason to lobby them. That is how you stop the problem without trashing everyone's right to petition the government.

+1. "Lobbyists" are really no different from political action committees afaik, they support candidates who agree with their issues and oppose candidates who don't

[specsaregood]

Isn't it already illegal for congressmen to accept personal gifts from businesses?

Yup they have all kinds of rules. Even for the little dinner parties the lobbyists throw there is a rule on the size of the food offered. all food provided has to fit on a toothpick.

[Dr.3D]

Isn't it already illegal for congressmen to accept personal gifts from businesses?

I guess if they can cover it up well enough. Some rabbit holes can seem like a maze.

[KingNothing]

Should lobbying be illegal!? Hell to the no!

We should elect politicians who won't be seduced by it. It is incumbent upon the voter to prevent scumbags from gaining power.

[Kotin]

Passing a law will do nothing to stop the buying of congresspersons.

[Dr.3D]

Passing a law will do nothing to stop the buying of congresspersons.
True... don't need another law. Those who are going to break them will do so anyway.

[acptulsa]

The people do need to retain the right to redress their grievances and to influence their representatives. Corporations, however, are not people, much as they might prefer to retain the rights thereof...

[Xenophage]

The problem isn't lobbying, which is just an exercise of free speech and the right to petition your government. Anyone can be a lobbyist. The problem is the government having the power to grant special favors, and the resulting undue influence particular lobbyists enjoy in Washington.

We need to root out the corrupt politicians and get back to the Constitution!

[Brian4Liberty]

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."


If the government does not have the power to affect commerce, then lobbyist lose their incentive to lobby. To quote Cain, "make sure you're working on the right problem." Lobbying is a symptom of too much power. Fix the disease, the symptoms will subside.

Yep.

We take it for granted that a "separation of Church and State" exists, and that is somewhat based on the First Amendment. Should that separation have originally also included a separation of "business and State"?

For example:

"Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment, promotion, sponsorship or preference of religion or business, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

[Kuthreck]

Should there not be serious consequences for lining your pockets with money when it is directly correlated through favors? Regardless of how large or small? I understand the loop holes and the hindrance to wanting to apply a new law when we already have to many. Corruption must end, there must be a way to combat it.

[tremendoustie]

I'd go for a "no lobbying allowed by recipients of government contracts/subsidies" bill. You take government money, you give up this right.

But no lobbying period is an obvious abridgement of freedom of speech.

[Hospitaller]

If the government does not have the power to affect commerce, then lobbyist lose their incentive to lobby. To quote Cain, "make sure you're working on the right problem." Lobbying is a symptom of too much power. Fix the disease, the symptoms will subside.

This man he knows.

How can they lobby for a slice of government power if the government has no power?

[CaseyJones]

moved to General Politics

[LibXist]

Just because there's a law prohibiting it doesn't mean it will actually work. Who's going to enforce it? The state itself? I don't think so! Even if it were to pass these deals would just go under the table, they wouldn't go away. C'mon guys, read Liberty Defined! RP addresses this very point.

[DamianTV]

Can this be done? Why not? It seems so sensible and overly obvious. By removing Politicians from the Private Sector we allow for more Economic Growth and Prosperity. There are no more winners in losers chosen from Politics, its the free market at work.

I guarantee you that if there was something on the ballot along the lines of:

No Private, Union, or Otherwise Individual may act in Lobbying with a Political Figure, Law Maker, or Otherwise.

(Of course in LAW Speak)

This would pass OVERWHELMINGLY by the American people 90+%. Why don't we make this happen? Is there anything stopping us, or do you disagree with my statements, and why?

Lobbying is how People get their message to their elected leaders at any level. The problem occurs when Corporations are the ones doing the Lobbying for or against Laws that are in their interests. Hell, half the time the Corporations are the ones writing the Bills they want to get turned into Law. But we cant always afford the time that it takes to Lobby at any level, while we are enslaved to the jobs that barely sustain us, it becomes a vicious downward spiral. None the less, when either Corporations or People address their elected officials, those are both forms Lobbying. Thus, it is a two way street. Get rid of Lobbying completely and you may inadvertantly prevent the people from Demanding a Redress of their Grievances.

If anything, I'd have to say prohibit the Corporations from Lobbying.

[Dr.3D]

Should there not be serious consequences for lining your pockets with money when it is directly correlated through favors? Regardless of how large or small? I understand the loop holes and the hindrance to wanting to apply a new law when we already have to many. Corruption must end, there must be a way to combat it.

I think the best way to combat such a thing is to hold their feet to the fire when they violate the U.S. Constitution. People need to keep notes on how their "representatives" vote and make sure to vote them out the next time around. Of course doing so will probably recruit a new batch to vote out the next term. Sooner or later, these people would understand, they are going to lose their jobs doing that stuff.

[awake]

Sure, ban lobbying, if you want to attack the symptom and not the problem. It should be against the law for one man to violate the property rights of another. If I pay a man to threaten you into acting a certain way, so that I may take your property, that is illegal; it is slavery in percentages. When politicians do it, it is called "good government". Political crime should become just plain old crime again.

I wish people could truly see and understand ; government is public slavery. Whether you are 50% enslaved or 60% slave is of little consequence, degrees are simply endorsement of the principle. Private slavery was rightly abolished because it was immoral while public slavery gets a pass as a necessary evil (so say the slave masters).

If black slaves were given a democratic vote for who slave mastered them, would this have been progress?

The political democratic system of representatives is the business of slaveholders selling slave holding privileges to the highest bidder, business is good.

[Sematary]

Can this be done? Why not? It seems so sensible and overly obvious. By removing Politicians from the Private Sector we allow for more Economic Growth and Prosperity. There are no more winners in losers chosen from Politics, its the free market at work.

I guarantee you that if there was something on the ballot along the lines of:

No Private, Union, or Otherwise Individual may act in Lobbying with a Political Figure, Law Maker, or Otherwise.

(Of course in LAW Speak)

This would pass OVERWHELMINGLY by the American people 90+%. Why don't we make this happen? Is there anything stopping us, or do you disagree with my statements, and why?

I spent a semester of school as an intern and before that, I may have thought it was a good idea. After that experience I do not, and I'll tell you why.
When you, or anyone, thinks of lobbyists, they think of armies of lawyers going to capitol hill and pushing their bills to Congressman who then get the bills onto the floor. But that's not usually the case. YOU can be a lobbyist, simply by making an appointment with your congresscritter, telling him/her what it is that you think needs legislation. Of course, if you have lots of good info behind you and an idea for a bill, it's a big help. So, if you get rid of "lobbyists" then you also get rid of the method by which "we the people" can ask our congresscritters to introduce bills that we think might be beneficial. It isn't the lobbyists that need to go. It is the money - because it is the money that corrupts.