PDA

View Full Version : Ron Paul Against Immunizations?




zeloc
12-11-2011, 08:09 PM
I just saw a Ron Paul video in 2007 where he essentially states that vaccines should not be forced on individuals and gives an example for someone not being vaccinated for polio not being a harm to anyone except himself/herself. I agree with Ron Paul on practically every issue I've heard him speak on but not this one, is this still his position? The issue is that not being vaccinated DOES harm others in a lot of cases because for diseases that can be transmitted like influenza, herd immunity is a major component, and the other issue is that children aren't old enough to make decisions for themselves and by having a parent who doesn't understand that vaccines are good, they are simply hurting the child who can go on to get some terrible diseases.

There is absolutely no evidence for vaccines causing autism or epilepsy or any other condition. There were some cases of Guillan-Barre many years ago but it was thought to be related to the manufacturing of a certain lot of vaccines, not to the vaccine itself. Of course there are some contraindications like if a person has a particular allergy or a certain disease. But it surprises me that Ron Paul would have this position as there is so much misinformation about vaccines and this would seem to only compound it.

Bruno
12-11-2011, 08:13 PM
If you vaccinated and I chose not to, why would you want the government to for me to do so? You are protected, right? Why force me to protect you further?

Government should never force people to put something in their bodies that they do not want to.

Stevo_Chill
12-11-2011, 08:14 PM
Do you have the right to break down your neighbors door and force a vaccination shot into their kid?

JakeH
12-11-2011, 08:15 PM
Dr. Paul believes that the government shouldn't force you to put something in your body, just like he believes that the government shouldn't keep you from putting something into your body.

LibertyEagle
12-11-2011, 08:18 PM
Zeloc, are you saying that you believe that government should be forcing individuals to get flu vaccines? Seriously? :confused:

zeloc
12-11-2011, 08:18 PM
Ron Paul's point, which he said in the video, is that a person should be allowed not to do something even if it harms him/her. But my point is that not taking certain vaccines DOES harm others, and secondly, I don't believe it's right for a parent to make a choice that is going to harm the child, because the child cannot make the decision for himself/herself.

Stevo_Chill
12-11-2011, 08:19 PM
If you don't have the right to force a shot into your niehgbor's child. where does the government derive that right?

zeloc
12-11-2011, 08:19 PM
I'm not talking about forced flu vaccines, but am talking about the childhood immunizations, I was just giving an example of how not taking a vaccine CAN harm others.

LibertyEagle
12-11-2011, 08:20 PM
Ron Paul's point, which he said in the video, is that a person should be allowed not to do something even if it harms him/her. But my point is that not taking certain vaccines DOES harm others, and secondly, I don't believe it's right for a parent to make a choice that is going to harm the child, because the child cannot make the decision for himself/herself.

But, who makes that decision, zeloc? Do you really want to hand over the authority for how your child should be raised to the federal government?

low preference guy
12-11-2011, 08:22 PM
I'm not talking about forced flu vaccines, but am talking about the childhood immunizations, I was just giving an example of how not taking a vaccine CAN harm others.

it's up to others whether they are harmed because they can decide whether to get the vaccine or not.

zeloc
12-11-2011, 08:25 PM
But, who makes that decision, zeloc? Do you really want to hand over the authority for how your child should be raised to the federal government?

I guess I'm trusting the government to make the right decision because there is more than overwhelming evidence for the benefit of pediatric vaccines, it's practically a fact. But I can see that it is dangerous to allow the government the right to make these kinds of decisions because a lot of the decisions are going to be bad. With pediatric vaccines it's just very clear though, most persons are too young to remember the devastation that polio caused, and the only reason that it has been wiped out is immunizations. The same with smallpox which has killed more than 300 million persons. Personally, I think that when something is this irrefutable and has such societal consequences it should be the government's right, but this is probably the only case when I feel this way about the government.

Stevo_Chill
12-11-2011, 08:28 PM
I guess I'm trusting the government to make the right decision because there is more than overwhelming evidence for the benefit of pediatric vaccines, it's practically a fact. But I can see that it is dangerous to allow the government the right to make these kinds of decisions because a lot of the decisions are going to be bad. With pediatric vaccines it's just very clear though, most persons are too young to remember the devastation that polio caused, and the only reason that it has been wiped out is immunizations. The same with smallpox which has killed more than 300 million persons. Personally, I think that when something is this irrefutable and has such societal consequences it should be the government's right, but this is probably the only case when I feel this way about the government.

more people die in bathroom slips than of terrorist attacks, i expect government to put cameras amd bathroom squads together to prevent such accidents.
i mean, what kind of cold hearted person would be for bathroom accidental deaths caused by slips in the shower. heartless bastards.

JakeH
12-11-2011, 08:29 PM
With as well-known as the backing points of immunization are at this point, the only people that chose to not have their children vaccinated are the ones that already slip through the cracks in the system anyways.

zeloc
12-11-2011, 08:30 PM
haha, I don't think this is a fair comparison... There are no downsides to giving a vaccine, but a lot of problems when the government tries to do anything else.

Sweman
12-11-2011, 08:31 PM
Personally, I think that when something is this irrefutable and has such societal consequences it should be the government's right, but this is probably the only case when I feel this way about the government.
Let the vaccine proponents present a good case and I shall consider it for me and my children.

Stevo_Chill
12-11-2011, 08:31 PM
haha, I don't think this is a fair comparison... There are no downsides to giving a vaccine, but a lot of problems when the government tries to do anything else.

force of the state is violence. i don't laugh at such a "light" suggestion.

Oddone
12-11-2011, 08:35 PM
Herd Immunity - You get it along with everyone else who want's to. Then I don't have too. :)

"Herd immunity (or community immunity) describes a form of immunity that occurs when the vaccination of a significant portion of a population (or herd) provides a measure of protection for individuals who have not developed immunity.[1] Herd immunity theory proposes that, in contagious diseases that are transmitted from individual to individual, chains of infection are likely to be disrupted when large numbers of a population are immune or less susceptible to the disease. The greater the proportion of individuals who are resistant, the smaller the probability that a susceptible individual will come into contact with an infectious individual"

No Free Beer
12-11-2011, 08:36 PM
what if it's a child?

what if it effects others?

Stevo_Chill
12-11-2011, 08:38 PM
what if it's a child?

what if it effects others?

do you have the right to force a shot into your neighbor's child?

Stevo_Chill
12-11-2011, 08:41 PM
Ron Paul recommends the book "The Law" by Frederic Bastiat. http://bastiat.org/en/the_law.html
or http://mises.org/books/thelaw.pdf
maybe you'll understand the question I pose better after reading the single most important book as described by Ron Paul.

Elwar
12-11-2011, 08:47 PM
I guess I'm trusting the government to make the right decision

...how's that working out for ya?

brushfire
12-11-2011, 08:48 PM
Yup... Ron Paul is against forced immunizations. ...as opposed to Rick Perry who cant sleep at night unless he's forcing MercK products on prepubescent girls. Also, Mitt and Newt might support such mandates as well.

showpan
12-11-2011, 08:48 PM
According to a Centers for Disease Control (CDC) report, there were only 10,637 cases of hepatitis B in the United States in 1996, including only 279 cases in children under the age of 14. Hepatitis B is not fatal for most who contract it, and it is not epidemic except among high-risk groups. More than 24,000 reports of hospitalizations and injuries, including about 400 deaths, following hepatitis B vaccinations have been reported since 1990 to the U.S. government's Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System.

Just do a google...it's easy

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&site=&q=forced+vaccinations+kill+children&oq=forced+vaccinations+kill+children&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=3909l22958l0l23566l33l33l0l11l11l0l405l4960 l0.2.10.5.1l18l0

low preference guy
12-11-2011, 09:02 PM
There are no downsides to giving a vaccine

there are no downsides to exercising and a lot of benefits. should the government point a gun to my head to ensure I go jogging every morning?

LibertyEagle
12-11-2011, 09:02 PM
I guess I'm trusting the government to make the right decision because there is more than overwhelming evidence for the benefit of pediatric vaccines, it's practically a fact. But I can see that it is dangerous to allow the government the right to make these kinds of decisions because a lot of the decisions are going to be bad. With pediatric vaccines it's just very clear though, most persons are too young to remember the devastation that polio caused, and the only reason that it has been wiped out is immunizations. The same with smallpox which has killed more than 300 million persons. Personally, I think that when something is this irrefutable and has such societal consequences it should be the government's right, but this is probably the only case when I feel this way about the government.

I understand. I'm not too young to remember the polio vaccine. Those dire situations are rare though.

No Free Beer
12-11-2011, 09:06 PM
do you have the right to force a shot into your neighbor's child?

I never brought up a neighbor. I am saying where is the responsibility of the parent(s)? Would it be okay if a parent let their child die?

Stevo_Chill
12-11-2011, 09:09 PM
I never brought up a neighbor. I am saying where is the responsibility of the parent(s)? Would it be okay if a parent let their child die?

let a child die, or kill their child?
do you have a right to medical care?
do have the right to dictate the medical treatments of your neighbor's child?
what if they are against pharma drugs? do you have the right to force your beliefs on them?
if so, where do you derive that right?

loveshiscountry
12-11-2011, 09:16 PM
Ron Paul's point, which he said in the video, is that a person should be allowed not to do something even if it harms him/her. But my point is that not taking certain vaccines DOES harm others, and secondly, I don't believe it's right for a parent to make a choice that is going to harm the child, because the child cannot make the decision for himself/herself.
Aren't the ones who will get hurt the ones who choose not to take the vaccine? It's about personal responsibility.

LibertyEagle
12-11-2011, 09:18 PM
I never brought up a neighbor. I am saying where is the responsibility of the parent(s)? Would it be okay if a parent let their child die?

Who do you believe cares about that child more? The parents or the government?

heavenlyboy34
12-11-2011, 09:23 PM
Who do you believe cares about that child more? The parents or the government?
+rep Medical freedom FTW!

No Free Beer
12-11-2011, 09:36 PM
Who do you believe cares about that child more? The parents or the government?

That's not the issue. I never made a claim that the government cares more about a child than the parents do. What I do believe, however, is that in some cases the government does. Is every parent a loving one? No, not everyone. Do well over majority of parents care about their children more than their government does? Absolutely. That being said, are you saying the government doesn't have a role to play in protecting a child against a mother/father (loving or non-loving) who is unwilling to potentially save the life of their child? I am not necessarily saying the government SHOULD override a parents decision. However, I am making a more realistic point out of this and I think a lot of you make it seem as though this is such a black and white situation, when it is not.

Stevo_Chill
12-11-2011, 09:38 PM
That's not the issue. I never made a claim that the government cares more about a child than the parents do. What I do believe, however, is that in some cases the government does. Is every parent a loving one? No, not everyone. Do well over majority of parents care about their children more than their government does? Absolutely. That being said, are you saying the government doesn't have a role to play in protecting a child against a mother/father (loving or non-loving) who is unwilling to potentially save the life of their child? I am not necessarily saying the government SHOULD override a parents decision. However, I am making a more realistic point out of this and I think a lot of you make it seem as though this is such a black and white situation, when it is not.

if the vaccination is right, then why don't your grab the needle yourself and stick it in the child?

No Free Beer
12-11-2011, 09:44 PM
if the vaccination is right, then why don't your grab the needle yourself and stick it in the child?


do you have the right to force a shot into your neighbor's child?

hmm...

Stevo_Chill
12-11-2011, 09:46 PM
hmm...

The Law by Bastiat.
Ron Paul recommends you read it. Your confusion will turn into clarity.
But what does Ron know, right?

LibertyEagle
12-11-2011, 09:49 PM
That's not the issue. I never made a claim that the government cares more about a child than the parents do. What I do believe, however, is that in some cases the government does. Is every parent a loving one? No, not everyone. Do well over majority of parents care about their children more than their government does? Absolutely. That being said, are you saying the government doesn't have a role to play in protecting a child against a mother/father (loving or non-loving) who is unwilling to potentially save the life of their child? I am not necessarily saying the government SHOULD override a parents decision. However, I am making a more realistic point out of this and I think a lot of you make it seem as though this is such a black and white situation, when it is not.

Potentially save the life? Do you mean by forcing a vaccination that you believe someone else's child should have? Who decides whether that vaccine is the lifesaver you believe it is? You? The parents? The government?

You do realize that the way things exist now, that our government is largely controlled by special interests payoffs. So, what you are advocating means that you are quite willing to let Big Pharma make a deal, say with a governor, to force their new vaccine on little 13 year old girls. All for their own good, of course. /sarcasm.

Look, nothing is ever going to be perfect. But, I think it is much better to err on the side of individual liberty. Because there is one thing we should all know and that is that a government that has been allowed to become tyrannical is extremely dangerous to one's health.

moreliberty
12-11-2011, 10:01 PM
Even if you desire this govt force, at least do it at the state level. I want the right to have my own discretion when it comes to my children. Some of these vaccines have saved lives, some are just forced on us by drug companies that make them by paying the politicians to make them mandatory.

UtahApocalypse
12-11-2011, 10:07 PM
I'm not talking about forced flu vaccines, but am talking about the childhood immunizations, I was just giving an example of how not taking a vaccine CAN harm others.

If you are so worried about getting something then YOU get vaccinated and are safe right?

Magicman
12-11-2011, 10:08 PM
I just saw a Ron Paul video in 2007 where he essentially states that vaccines should not be forced on individuals and gives an example for someone not being vaccinated for polio not being a harm to anyone except himself/herself. I agree with Ron Paul on practically every issue I've heard him speak on but not this one, is this still his position? The issue is that not being vaccinated DOES harm others in a lot of cases because for diseases that can be transmitted like influenza, herd immunity is a major component, and the other issue is that children aren't old enough to make decisions for themselves and by having a parent who doesn't understand that vaccines are good, they are simply hurting the child who can go on to get some terrible diseases.

There is absolutely no evidence for vaccines causing autism or epilepsy or any other condition. There were some cases of Guillan-Barre many years ago but it was thought to be related to the manufacturing of a certain lot of vaccines, not to the vaccine itself. Of course there are some contraindications like if a person has a particular allergy or a certain disease. But it surprises me that Ron Paul would have this position as there is so much misinformation about vaccines and this would seem to only compound it.

You need to do your research thoroughly on vaccines because you have no clue what you're talking about.

If vaccines didn't cause autism then why would respected doctors who treated in biomedical therapy see drastic improvement and results after using chelation techniques. There is aluminum and thimersal the soft metal that causes Autism in MANY vaccines. These soft metals cause gluten allergies as well as immune suppression, cell damage and neurological problems because they damage the intestinal lining. That is why this poisoning causes so much intolerance and sensitivity in foods in the Autistic child. Why is it so many Autistic children face the same problems.

Why do you need to use a vaccine when silver (http://www.kombuchapower.com/colloidal_silver.htm) can kill most bacteria in 6 minutes. Also, Glutathione (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh2PYQBICWs) can raise your immune system so powerful that you will rarely catch a disease. What we should focus on is how to improve the immune system instead of using vaccines that suppress the immune system.

Not to mention the CDC completely dispels your myth by what is ACTUALLY in the vaccines:

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/B/excipient-table-2.pdf

It's safe to say that the poisons laced in the vaccines can cause Autism and this case study proves it.

Mitochondrial dysfunction, impaired oxidative-reduction activity, degeneration, and death in human neuronal and fetal cells induced by low-level exposure to thimerosal and other metal compounds

Thimerosal (ethylmercurithiosalicylic acid), an ethylmercury (EtHg)-releasing compound (49.55% mercury (Hg)), was used in a range of medical products for more than 70 years. Of particular recent concern, routine administering of Thimerosal-containing biologics/childhood vaccines have become significant sources of Hg exposure for some fetuses/infants. This study was undertaken to investigate cellular damage among in vitro human neuronal (SH-SY-5Y neuroblastoma and 1321N1 astrocytoma) and fetal (nontransformed) model systems using cell vitality assays and microscope-based digital image capture techniques to assess potential damage induced by Thimerosal and other metal compounds (aluminum (Al) sulfate, lead (Pb)(II) acetate, methylmercury (MeHg) hydroxide, and mercury (Hg)(II) chloride) where the cation was reported to exert adverse effects on developing cells. Thimerosal-associated cellular damage was also evaluated for similarity to pathophysiological findings observed in patients diagnosed with autistic disorders (ADs). Thimerosal-induced cellular damage as evidenced by concentration- and time-dependent mitochondrial damage, reduced oxidative-reduction activity, cellular degeneration, and cell death in the in vitro human neuronal and fetal model systems studied. Thimerosal at low nanomolar (nM) concentrations induced significant cellular toxicity in human neuronal and fetal cells. Thimerosal-induced cytoxicity is similar to that observed in AD pathophysiologic studies. Thimerosal was found to be significantly more toxic than the other metal compounds examined. Future studies need to be conducted to evaluate additional mechanisms underlying Thimerosal-induced cellular damage and assess potential co-exposures to other compounds that may increase or decrease Thimerosal-mediated toxicity.

Magicman
12-11-2011, 10:22 PM
ONLY A NUTCASE WOULD PUT THESE INGREDIENTS INTO THEIR BABY WHO KNOWS THE TRUTH


Vaccine Excipient & Media Summary, Part 2
Excipients Included in U.S. Vaccines, by Vaccine
Includes vaccine ingredients (e.g., adjuvants and preservatives) as well as substances used during the manufacturing process,

including vaccine-production media, that are removed from the final product and present only in trace quantities.

In addition to the substances listed, most vaccines contain Sodium Chloride (table salt).

Vaccine Contains
Anthrax (BioThrax)
Aluminum Hydroxide, Amino Acids, Benzethonium Chloride, Formaldehyde
or Formalin, Inorganic Salts and Sugars, Vitamins
BCG (Tice)
Asparagine, Citric Acid, Lactose, Glycerin, Iron Ammonium Citrate, Magnesium
Sulfate, Potassium Phosphate
DTaP (Daptacel)
Aluminum Phosphate, Ammonium Sulfate, Casamino Acid,
Dimethyl-beta-cyclodextrin, Formaldehyde or Formalin, Glutaraldehyde,
2-Phenoxyethanol
DTaP (Infanrix)
Aluminum Hydroxide, Bovine Extract, Formaldehyde or Formalin,
Glutaraldhyde, 2-Phenoxyethanol, Polysorbate 80
DTaP (Tripedia)
Aluminum Potassium Sulfate, Ammonium Sulfate, Bovine Extract,
Formaldehyde or Formalin, Gelatin, Polysorbate 80, Sodium Phosphate,
Thimerosal*
DTaP/Hib (TriHIBit)
Aluminum Potassium Sulfate, Ammonium Sulfate, Bovine Extract,
Formaldehyde or Formalin, Gelatin, Polysorbate 80, Sucrose, Thimerosal*
DTaP-IPV (Kinrix)
Aluminum Hydroxide, Bovine Extract, Formaldehyde, Lactalbumin
Hydrolysate, Monkey Kidney Tissue, Neomycin Sulfate, Polymyxin B,
Polysorbate 80
DTaP-HepB-IPV (Pediarix)
Aluminum Hydroxide, Aluminum Phosphate, Bovine Protein, Lactalbumin
Hydrolysate, Formaldehyde or Formalin, Glutaraldhyde, Monkey Kidney Tissue,
Neomycin, 2-Phenoxyethanol, Polymyxin B, Polysorbate 80, Yeast Protein
DtaP-IPV/Hib (Pentacel)
Aluminum Phosphate, Bovine Serum Albumin, Formaldehyde, Glutaraldhyde,
MRC-5 DNA and Cellular Protein, Neomycin, Polymyxin B Sulfate, Polysorbate
80, 2-Phenoxyethanol,
DT (sanofi)
Aluminum Potassium Sulfate, Bovine Extract, Formaldehyde or Formalin,
Thimerosal (multi-dose) or Thimerosal* (single-dose)
DT (Massachusetts) Aluminum Hydroxide, Formaldehyde or Formalin
Hib (ACTHib) Ammonium Sulfate, Formaldehyde or Formalin, Sucrose
Hib (Hiberix) Formaldehyde or Formalin, Lactose
Hib (PedvaxHib) Aluminum Hydroxyphosphate Sulfate
Hib/Hep B (Comvax)
Amino Acids, Aluminum Hydroxyphosphate Sulfate, Dextrose, Formaldehyde or
Formalin, Mineral Salts, Sodium Borate, Soy Peptone, Yeast Protein
Hep A (Havrix)
Aluminum Hydroxide, Amino Acids, Formaldehyde or Formalin, MRC-5
Cellular Protein, Neomycin Sulfate, 2-Phenoxyethanol, Phosphate Buffers,
Polysorbate
Hep A (Vaqta)
Aluminum Hydroxyphosphate Sulfate, Bovine Albumin or Serum, DNA,
Formaldehyde or Formalin, MRC-5 Cellular Protein, Sodium Borate
Hep B (Engerix-B) Aluminum Hydroxide, Phosphate Buffers, Thimerosal*, Yeast Protein

Vaccine Contains
Hep B (Recombivax)
Aluminum Hydroxyphosphate Sulfate, Amino Acids, Dextrose, Formaldehyde or
Formalin, Mineral Salts, Potassium Aluminum Sulfate, Soy Peptone, Yeast
Protein
HepA/HepB (Twinrix)
Aluminum Hydroxide, Aluminum Phosphate, Amino Acids, Dextrose,
Formaldehyde or Formalin, Inorganic Salts, MRC-5 Cellular Protein, Neomycin
Sulfate, 2-Phenoxyethanol, Phosphate Buffers, Polysorbate 20, Thimerosal*,
Vitamins, Yeast Protein
Human Papillomavirus (HPV)
(Cerverix)
3-O-desacyl-4’-monophosphoryl lipid A (MPL), Aluminum Hydroxide, Amino
Acids, Insect Cell Protein, Mineral Salts, Sodium Dihydrogen Phosphate
Dihydrate, Vitamins
Human Papillomavirus (HPV)
(Gardasil)
Amino Acids, Amorphous Aluminum Hydroxyphosphate Sulfate,
Carbohydrates, L-histidine, Mineral Salts, Polysorbate 80, Sodium Borate,
Vitamins
Influenza (Afluria)
Beta-Propiolactone, Calcium Chloride, Neomycin, Ovalbumin, Polymyxin B,
Potassium Chloride, Potassium Phosphate, Sodium Phosphate, Sodium
Taurodeoxychoalate
Influenza (Agriflu)
Cetyltrimethylammonium Bromide (CTAB), Egg Protein, Formaldehyde or
Formalin, Kanamycin, Neomycin Sulfate, Polysorbate 80
Influenza (Fluarix)
Egg Albumin (Ovalbumin), Egg Protein, Formaldehyde or Formalin,
Gentamicin, Hydrocortisone, Octoxynol-10, α-Tocopheryl Hydrogen Succinate,
Polysorbate 80, Sodium Deoxycholate, Sodium Phosphate, Thimerosal*
Influenza (Flulaval)
Egg Albumin (Ovalbumin), Egg Protein, Formaldehyde or Formalin, Sodium
Deoxycholate, Phosphate Buffers, Thimerosal
Influenza (Fluvirin)
Beta-Propiolactone , Egg Protein, Neomycin, Polymyxin B, Polyoxyethylene
9-10 Nonyl Phenol (Triton N-101, Octoxynol 9), Thimerosal (multidose
containers), Thimerosal* (single-dose syringes)
Influenza (Fluzone)
Egg Protein, Formaldehyde or Formalin, Gelatin, Octoxinol-9 (Triton X-100),
Thimerosal (multidose containers)
Influenza (FluMist)
Chick Kidney Cells, Egg Protein, Gentamicin Sulfate, Monosodium Glutamate,
Sucrose Phosphate Glutamate Buffer
IPV (Ipol)
Calf Serum Protein, Formaldehyde or Formalin, Monkey Kidney Tissue,
Neomycin, 2-Phenoxyethanol, Polymyxin B, Streptomycin,
Japanese Encephalitis
(JE-Vax)
Formaldehyde or Formalin, Gelatin, Mouse Serum Protein, Polysorbate 80,
Thimerosal
Japanese Encephalitis (Ixiaro)
Aluminum Hydroxide, Bovine Serum Albumin, Formaldehyde, Protamine
Sulfate, Sodium Metabisulphite
Meningococcal (Menactra) Formaldehyde or Formalin, Phosphate Buffers
Meningococcal (Menomune) Lactose, Thimerosal (10-dose vials only)
Meningococcal (Menveo) Amino Acid, Formaldehyde or Formalin, Yeast
MMR (MMR-II)
Amino Acid, Bovine Albumin or Serum, Chick Embryo Fibroblasts, Human
Serum Albumin, Gelatin, Glutamate, Neomycin, Phosphate Buffers, Sorbitol,
Sucrose, Vitamins

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/B/excipient-table-2.pdf

No Free Beer
12-11-2011, 11:11 PM
The Law by Bastiat.
Ron Paul recommends you read it. Your confusion will turn into clarity.
But what does Ron know, right?

You seem to be the one that needs clarity.

Anyway, I want to make myself very clear, I never gave a firm stance on this issue. I was just playing devil's advocate. I was just trying to demonstrate that this is not a black and white issue. Yes, essentially I am in favor of a parent making that decision for their own child. I think, majority of the time, parents will decide what's in the best interest of their family and specifically their child. That being said, that is not always the case. Also, would it be justified for a government to allow a mother to make the decision of allowing her child to die? Does the government have a role to play in protecting a minor's life? That is my point. It is not as clear cut as you would like to make it out to be. It's a tough decision and a tough position to take. I can understand both sides.

One more point, just because we all believe in Ron Paul, doesn't mean he can't be wrong on an issue. I think this can be a problem when following a candidate, that people just blindly go along with everything he or she says. To me, Ron Paul is more than a candidate, he will go down as a modern day prophet, but that doesn't mean he is right about every issue. For me (not on this issue), I don't see eye to eye with Dr. Paul on every issue. That is all I am going to say about this topic. Good day. And lets win Iowa.

dustinp
12-11-2011, 11:19 PM
That's not the issue. I never made a claim that the government cares more about a child than the parents do. What I do believe, however, is that in some cases the government does. Is every parent a loving one? No, not everyone. Do well over majority of parents care about their children more than their government does? Absolutely. That being said, are you saying the government doesn't have a role to play in protecting a child against a mother/father (loving or non-loving) who is unwilling to potentially save the life of their child? I am not necessarily saying the government SHOULD override a parents decision. However, I am making a more realistic point out of this and I think a lot of you make it seem as though this is such a black and white situation, when it is not.


I would be willing to bet that the ones that care the most about their children's health are the ones refusing to give them the vaccines, Since they are the ones that have taken the time to know whats IN THE VACCINE, and to decide that they dont want to put that junk into their child's body. Just my two cents

donnay
12-12-2011, 12:13 AM
Ron Paul's point, which he said in the video, is that a person should be allowed not to do something even if it harms him/her. But my point is that not taking certain vaccines DOES harm others, and secondly, I don't believe it's right for a parent to make a choice that is going to harm the child, because the child cannot make the decision for himself/herself.

I submit to you that you have been fed lies.

Have you checked out the ingredients that are in vaccines? http://www.informedchoice.info/cocktail.html

You need to do research and get informed. Vaccines are pushed because the pharmaceutical companies make big profits from them!

I have a friend who is 52 years old and NEVER has had a vaccine--not one! She is healthy and her children have not had one vaccine, and they are adults. All of them are well and healthy people.

Sources to help inform you better:
http://www.sayingnotovaccines.com/
http://vran.org/about-vaccines/general-issues/doctors-speak/the-truth-behind-the-vaccine-cover-up/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/glenn-d-braunstein-md/andrew-wakefields-vaccina_b_816208.html
http://www.naturalnews.com/031264_Dr_Andrew_Wakefield_science.html
http://www.naturalnews.com/Vaccines_Get_the_Full_Story.html
http://www.naturalnews.com/029357_vaccinations_parents.html
http://genesgreenbook.com/content/proof-vaccines-didnt-save-us
http://www.brasschecktv.com/videos/food/lying-scientists-.html
http://www.vaccinetruth.org/
http://healthimpactnews.com/2011/cdc-caught-in-blatant-lies-about-pandemics-and-vaccines/
http://drcarley.com/
http://www.naturalnews.com/029357_vaccinations_parents.html

Danke
12-12-2011, 12:21 AM
If you vaccinated and I chose not to, why would you want the government to for me to do so? You are protected, right? Why force me to protect you further?

Government should never force people to put something in their bodies that they do not want to.

Answer in the first response.

Xenophage
12-12-2011, 12:54 AM
I guess I'm trusting the government to make the right decision because there is more than overwhelming evidence for the benefit of pediatric vaccines, it's practically a fact. But I can see that it is dangerous to allow the government the right to make these kinds of decisions because a lot of the decisions are going to be bad. With pediatric vaccines it's just very clear though, most persons are too young to remember the devastation that polio caused, and the only reason that it has been wiped out is immunizations. The same with smallpox which has killed more than 300 million persons. Personally, I think that when something is this irrefutable and has such societal consequences it should be the government's right, but this is probably the only case when I feel this way about the government.

Was there a forced, mandatory smallpox vaccine? No. People took it voluntarily out of respect for science and their own self interest. A vaccine that is well understood to be effective and widely available will be voluntarily taken. There is no need to force a vaccine that has clear benefits and low risk of side effects.

You may need to force people to line up for vaccines that have dubious benefits, or high risks of side effects, but should you be forcing those vaccines?

There is no necessity of government involvement in healthcare. It's an unfounded fear, unsupported by history, that says that without the government people will refuse to take vaccinations and all of society will be placed at risk.

Invi
12-12-2011, 01:36 AM
I'm surprised this hasn't yet come down to how it is "selfish" of those of us who avoid vaccinations or would choose to not vaccinate our children.
Anywhere else that would have been stated bluntly in the first three pages. Heh.

kuckfeynes
12-12-2011, 02:04 AM
If Ron Paul is elected president, his opinion on the matter will be irrelevant, since there is no federal authority for it. At that point, take it up with your governor.

Birdlady
12-12-2011, 04:02 AM
I'm fairly sure these days that I was injured by a vaccine when I was 16 years old. It affected my autonomic and central nervous systems and I haven't been the same since. You have no idea how much I'd love to go back and not get them to see if things would have happened differently. The problem with vaccines is there is no way to redo it. There are no easy cures when a person is damaged by a vaccine. Once you are injected, you have no idea how your immune system will respond to it. Mine apparently decided to go on overdrive and attack itself.

I haven't had a vaccine in over 9 years and I will never get one again unless I'm bit by a rabid animal. Then I'll get it because it's either get the vaccine or die. lol

Diurdi
12-12-2011, 04:33 AM
My biggest worry is that at some point you'll have someone really bad/incompetent become president and he forces kids to take a vaccine that is not good for them.

Most of the mainstream vaccines today are really cost-effective ways to increase the health of a child (excluding flu-vaccines), though.

donnay
12-12-2011, 09:04 AM
I'm fairly sure these days that I was injured by a vaccine when I was 16 years old. It affected my autonomic and central nervous systems and I haven't been the same since. You have no idea how much I'd love to go back and not get them to see if things would have happened differently. The problem with vaccines is there is no way to redo it. There are no easy cures when a person is damaged by a vaccine. Once you are injected, you have no idea how your immune system will respond to it. Mine apparently decided to go on overdrive and attack itself.

I haven't had a vaccine in over 9 years and I will never get one again unless I'm bit by a rabid animal. Then I'll get it because it's either get the vaccine or die. lol

I am also beginning to think that having to get rabies shots is a farce too.

http://www.vaclib.org/intro/rabies.htm
http://www.mnwelldir.org/docs/history/biographies/louis_pasteur.htm
http://www.therealessentials.com/vaccination-princ.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_162-20070770-10391704.html
http://www.mymultiplesclerosis.co.uk/misc/jeannagiese.html
http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/the-big-scam-rabies-vaccination/
http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/the-rabies-threat/

Magicman
12-12-2011, 11:50 AM
You seem to be the one that needs clarity.

Anyway, I want to make myself very clear, I never gave a firm stance on this issue. I was just playing devil's advocate. I was just trying to demonstrate that this is not a black and white issue. Yes, essentially I am in favor of a parent making that decision for their own child. I think, majority of the time, parents will decide what's in the best interest of their family and specifically their child. That being said, that is not always the case. Also, would it be justified for a government to allow a mother to make the decision of allowing her child to die? Does the government have a role to play in protecting a minor's life? That is my point. It is not as clear cut as you would like to make it out to be. It's a tough decision and a tough position to take. I can understand both sides.

One more point, just because we all believe in Ron Paul, doesn't mean he can't be wrong on an issue. I think this can be a problem when following a candidate, that people just blindly go along with everything he or she says. To me, Ron Paul is more than a candidate, he will go down as a modern day prophet, but that doesn't mean he is right about every issue. For me (not on this issue), I don't see eye to eye with Dr. Paul on every issue. That is all I am going to say about this topic. Good day. And lets win Iowa.


Are you completely blind or in denial and have not read the report by the CDC of what is actually in the vaccinations?

Magicman
12-12-2011, 11:55 AM
I'm fairly sure these days that I was injured by a vaccine when I was 16 years old. It affected my autonomic and central nervous systems and I haven't been the same since. You have no idea how much I'd love to go back and not get them to see if things would have happened differently. The problem with vaccines is there is no way to redo it. There are no easy cures when a person is damaged by a vaccine. Once you are injected, you have no idea how your immune system will respond to it. Mine apparently decided to go on overdrive and attack itself.

I haven't had a vaccine in over 9 years and I will never get one again unless I'm bit by a rabid animal. Then I'll get it because it's either get the vaccine or die. lol



That isn't necessarily true, just find out the culprit in many cases it's thimersal or aluminum, and go for a chelation treatment (http://www.naturalnews.com/026885_natural_zeolite_heavy_metals.html). You can redo the damage of almost everything in the body naturally, when you use oxygen therapy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yD4n-y48YuU), glutathione (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh2PYQBICWs), and B12 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=za6HevIMOZM) to repair cell damage (http://www.immune-health-solutions-for-you.com/dna-mutation.html), optimize the immune system (http://www.prohealth.com/library/showarticle.cfm?libid=7597), remove metals (http://autism-nutrition.com/hbot-autism), ATP, mitochondria, and/or energy (http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/CFS_-_The_Central_Cause:_Mitochondrial_Failure),remove free radical damage (http://www.dockidd.com/pdf/KiddGSHAMR.pdf) and oxidative stress (http://www.dockidd.com/pdf/KiddGSHAMR.pdf). All cells that are damaged are in an anaerobic (http://www.doctorsexercise.com/journal/aerobic.htm) state and need oxygen to survive. Anything in the body can be repaired with the exception of a destroyed limb, or organ (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/12/081214190945.htm) then you can seek adult stem cell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adult_stem_cell) or regenerative medicine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regenerative_medicine) which works.

You should see how oxygen therapy has saved countless lives with people who have had brain injuries and comas. Here is a patient who used it here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbFs9NN__Mk).

NorthCarolinaLiberty
12-12-2011, 06:23 PM
The National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program has paid around 700 million dollars to those who have been harmed by vaccines:
http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/index.html

Deborah K
12-12-2011, 06:46 PM
Ron Paul's point, which he said in the video, is that a person should be allowed not to do something even if it harms him/her. But my point is that not taking certain vaccines DOES harm others, and secondly, I don't believe it's right for a parent to make a choice that is going to harm the child, because the child cannot make the decision for himself/herself.

If you choose to vaccinate your children, then how do my unvaccinated children harm them??

marhlfld
12-12-2011, 08:21 PM
I submit to you that you have been fed lies.

Have you checked out the ingredients that are in vaccines? http://www.informedchoice.info/cocktail.html

You need to do research and get informed. Vaccines are pushed because the pharmaceutical companies make big profits from them!

I have a friend who is 52 years old and NEVER has had a vaccine--not one! She is healthy and her children have not had one vaccine, and they are adults. All of them are well and healthy people.

Sources to help inform you better:
http://www.sayingnotovaccines.com/
http://vran.org/about-vaccines/general-issues/doctors-speak/the-truth-behind-the-vaccine-cover-up/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/glenn-d-braunstein-md/andrew-wakefields-vaccina_b_816208.html
http://www.naturalnews.com/031264_Dr_Andrew_Wakefield_science.html
http://www.naturalnews.com/Vaccines_Get_the_Full_Story.html
http://www.naturalnews.com/029357_vaccinations_parents.html
http://genesgreenbook.com/content/proof-vaccines-didnt-save-us
http://www.brasschecktv.com/videos/food/lying-scientists-.html
http://www.vaccinetruth.org/
http://healthimpactnews.com/2011/cdc-caught-in-blatant-lies-about-pandemics-and-vaccines/
http://drcarley.com/
http://www.naturalnews.com/029357_vaccinations_parents.html

Poor Zeloc, I was going to point the above facts to him/her, but the OPs did a good job about freedom of choice, personal responsibility, so I didn't really want to go here like you did. Not all people are informed about the vaccine issue. We all are at different learning curves. Besides it can be a long discussion concerning it, and I wasn't ready for that right now.

Several months ago I watched in horror a military tv ad about how 1 in 88 military children have autism. That's worse than the national average of 1 in 99! This ad was asking for donations for research into why these children have autism. For crying out loud, its caused by the vaccines they give the soldiers and their families!

Zeloc, do the research. I once thought the way you did until it was brought to my attention and I did the research. Just as I did the research on Ron Paul, I researched the vaccine issue too. Make an informed decision. But don't think govt has the right to force vaccines on us, or mandated healthcare either!

donnay
12-12-2011, 08:33 PM
"If people let the government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as the souls who live under tyranny."
~Thomas Jefferson (1778)

"Unless we put medical freedom into the Constitution, the time will come when medicine will organize into an undercover dictatorship....The Constitution of this Republic shall make special provision for medical freedom as well as religious freedom."
~Benjamin Rush MD, signer of the Declaration of Independence

marhlfld
12-12-2011, 08:38 PM
I am also beginning to think that having to get rabies shots is a farce too.

http://www.vaclib.org/intro/rabies.htm
http://www.mnwelldir.org/docs/history/biographies/louis_pasteur.htm
http://www.therealessentials.com/vaccination-princ.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_162-20070770-10391704.html
http://www.mymultiplesclerosis.co.uk/misc/jeannagiese.html
http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/the-big-scam-rabies-vaccination/
http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/the-rabies-threat/

Yep, absolutely. I haven't vaccinated any animal of mine for nearly a decade. My animals don't die of diabetes, cancers or other health problems. They all die of natural causes from OLD AGE. So many people around me have young dogs and cats dying of all sorts of issues that were never an issue 50 years ago before we got sucked into the propaganda of vaccinations.

Dogs and cats are having mental issues where the stupid DVM's are prescribing anti-depressants and anti-anxiety meds! What the hell?! I would bet those dogs and cats are ADHD or autistic from vaccines.

Rabies has been around forever! We still have plenty of Bears, cougars, wolves, coyotes, raccoons, possums, squirrels, rabbits, etc. They haven't gone extinct from the rabies. Yes, there are outbreaks of rabies, and when that happens, you need to take precautions. There isn't one species I'm aware of that has been completely decimated by rabies. It is a cyclical thing.

donnay
12-12-2011, 10:53 PM
Yep, absolutely. I haven't vaccinated any animal of mine for nearly a decade. My animals don't die of diabetes, cancers or other health problems. They all die of natural causes from OLD AGE. So many people around me have young dogs and cats dying of all sorts of issues that were never an issue 50 years ago before we got sucked into the propaganda of vaccinations.

Dogs and cats are having mental issues where the stupid DVM's are prescribing anti-depressants and anti-anxiety meds! What the hell?! I would bet those dogs and cats are ADHD or autistic from vaccines.

Rabies has been around forever! We still have plenty of Bears, cougars, wolves, coyotes, raccoons, possums, squirrels, rabbits, etc. They haven't gone extinct from the rabies. Yes, there are outbreaks of rabies, and when that happens, you need to take precautions. There isn't one species I'm aware of that has been completely decimated by rabies. It is a cyclical thing.

I agree with the domestic animals aspect...but I am also researching a lot about people not having the series of rabies vaccines either after allegedly being bit by a rabid animal and living to tell the tale.

zeloc
12-12-2011, 11:31 PM
Poor Zeloc, I was going to point the above facts to him/her, but the OPs did a good job about freedom of choice, personal responsibility, so I didn't really want to go here like you did. Not all people are informed about the vaccine issue. We all are at different learning curves. Besides it can be a long discussion concerning it, and I wasn't ready for that right now.

Several months ago I watched in horror a military tv ad about how 1 in 88 military children have autism. That's worse than the national average of 1 in 99! This ad was asking for donations for research into why these children have autism. For crying out loud, its caused by the vaccines they give the soldiers and their families!

Zeloc, do the research. I once thought the way you did until it was brought to my attention and I did the research. Just as I did the research on Ron Paul, I researched the vaccine issue too. Make an informed decision. But don't think govt has the right to force vaccines on us, or mandated healthcare either!

I'm sorry to say this because you seem like an intelligent, reasoned person, but these links are all garbage. And it doesn't mean anything if a person is 50 and perfectly healthy without vaccines, I would probably be perfectly healthy without any vaccines also. The reason is because everyone around me HAS been vaccinated and so even if I wasn't vaccinated I am benefiting from everyone else. But the persons who are not vaccinated are basically taking advantage of those who are.

There is absolutely NO LINK between autism and vaccines. Absolutely nothing. I challenge you to find 1 single study that found evidence, because there isn't one. There was someone in England a few years ago who claimed that vaccines caused autism and published a paper and it was later found out that he fabricated his data. No one in the world has been able to replicate this finding.

I don't think you have done any research on rabies. Rabies is 100% fatal if a person gets it. Not 75%, 82%, or 96%, but 100%. Everyone who gets rabies dies unless they get the vaccine.

I'm not opposed to thinking that vaccines might be bad but I have probably done far more research than you and have yet to come across anything that would suggest it.

MJU1983
12-12-2011, 11:39 PM
Ron Paul simply wants to legalize freedom.

Edit: that's Dr. Ron Paul, MD ;)

Voluntary Man
12-13-2011, 12:00 AM
So, your position is that if you sincerely believe, with all your heart, that something I oppose will benefit me, you have the right to force it on me, against my will? Or is it that you believe that if doing something to me, against my will, will benefit YOU, you have the right to violate my body? What happens when you forcibly inoculate the child of an "ignorant" parent, against both the child's and parents's will, and the child gets a dose from a bad batch, or just has a bad reaction (have you ever read a vaccine insert), and dies? Will you assume any responsibility for the tragedy you helped create?

If you have such disregard for individual liberty, why do you support Dr Paul?


I just saw a Ron Paul video in 2007 where he essentially states that vaccines should not be forced on individuals and gives an example for someone not being vaccinated for polio not being a harm to anyone except himself/herself. I agree with Ron Paul on practically every issue I've heard him speak on but not this one, is this still his position? The issue is that not being vaccinated DOES harm others in a lot of cases because for diseases that can be transmitted like influenza, herd immunity is a major component, and the other issue is that children aren't old enough to make decisions for themselves and by having a parent who doesn't understand that vaccines are good, they are simply hurting the child who can go on to get some terrible diseases.

There is absolutely no evidence for vaccines causing autism or epilepsy or any other condition. There were some cases of Guillan-Barre many years ago but it was thought to be related to the manufacturing of a certain lot of vaccines, not to the vaccine itself. Of course there are some contraindications like if a person has a particular allergy or a certain disease. But it surprises me that Ron Paul would have this position as there is so much misinformation about vaccines and this would seem to only compound it.

puppetmaster
12-13-2011, 12:45 AM
ONLY A NUTCASE WOULD PUT THESE INGREDIENTS INTO THEIR BABY WHO KNOWS THE TRUTH


Vaccine Excipient & Media Summary, Part 2
Excipients Included in U.S. Vaccines, by Vaccine
Includes vaccine ingredients (e.g., adjuvants and preservatives) as well as substances used during the manufacturing process,

including vaccine-production media, that are removed from the final product and present only in trace quantities.

In addition to the substances listed, most vaccines contain Sodium Chloride (table salt).

Vaccine Contains
Anthrax (BioThrax)
Aluminum Hydroxide, Amino Acids, Benzethonium Chloride, Formaldehyde
or Formalin, Inorganic Salts and Sugars, Vitamins
BCG (Tice)
Asparagine, Citric Acid, Lactose, Glycerin, Iron Ammonium Citrate, Magnesium
Sulfate, Potassium Phosphate
DTaP (Daptacel)
Aluminum Phosphate, Ammonium Sulfate, Casamino Acid,
Dimethyl-beta-cyclodextrin, Formaldehyde or Formalin, Glutaraldehyde,
2-Phenoxyethanol
DTaP (Infanrix)
Aluminum Hydroxide, Bovine Extract, Formaldehyde or Formalin,
Glutaraldhyde, 2-Phenoxyethanol, Polysorbate 80
DTaP (Tripedia)
Aluminum Potassium Sulfate, Ammonium Sulfate, Bovine Extract,
Formaldehyde or Formalin, Gelatin, Polysorbate 80, Sodium Phosphate,
Thimerosal*
DTaP/Hib (TriHIBit)
Aluminum Potassium Sulfate, Ammonium Sulfate, Bovine Extract,
Formaldehyde or Formalin, Gelatin, Polysorbate 80, Sucrose, Thimerosal*
DTaP-IPV (Kinrix)
Aluminum Hydroxide, Bovine Extract, Formaldehyde, Lactalbumin
Hydrolysate, Monkey Kidney Tissue, Neomycin Sulfate, Polymyxin B,
Polysorbate 80
DTaP-HepB-IPV (Pediarix)
Aluminum Hydroxide, Aluminum Phosphate, Bovine Protein, Lactalbumin
Hydrolysate, Formaldehyde or Formalin, Glutaraldhyde, Monkey Kidney Tissue,
Neomycin, 2-Phenoxyethanol, Polymyxin B, Polysorbate 80, Yeast Protein
DtaP-IPV/Hib (Pentacel)
Aluminum Phosphate, Bovine Serum Albumin, Formaldehyde, Glutaraldhyde,
MRC-5 DNA and Cellular Protein, Neomycin, Polymyxin B Sulfate, Polysorbate
80, 2-Phenoxyethanol,
DT (sanofi)
Aluminum Potassium Sulfate, Bovine Extract, Formaldehyde or Formalin,
Thimerosal (multi-dose) or Thimerosal* (single-dose)
DT (Massachusetts) Aluminum Hydroxide, Formaldehyde or Formalin
Hib (ACTHib) Ammonium Sulfate, Formaldehyde or Formalin, Sucrose
Hib (Hiberix) Formaldehyde or Formalin, Lactose
Hib (PedvaxHib) Aluminum Hydroxyphosphate Sulfate
Hib/Hep B (Comvax)
Amino Acids, Aluminum Hydroxyphosphate Sulfate, Dextrose, Formaldehyde or
Formalin, Mineral Salts, Sodium Borate, Soy Peptone, Yeast Protein
Hep A (Havrix)
Aluminum Hydroxide, Amino Acids, Formaldehyde or Formalin, MRC-5
Cellular Protein, Neomycin Sulfate, 2-Phenoxyethanol, Phosphate Buffers,
Polysorbate
Hep A (Vaqta)
Aluminum Hydroxyphosphate Sulfate, Bovine Albumin or Serum, DNA,
Formaldehyde or Formalin, MRC-5 Cellular Protein, Sodium Borate
Hep B (Engerix-B) Aluminum Hydroxide, Phosphate Buffers, Thimerosal*, Yeast Protein

Vaccine Contains
Hep B (Recombivax)
Aluminum Hydroxyphosphate Sulfate, Amino Acids, Dextrose, Formaldehyde or
Formalin, Mineral Salts, Potassium Aluminum Sulfate, Soy Peptone, Yeast
Protein
HepA/HepB (Twinrix)
Aluminum Hydroxide, Aluminum Phosphate, Amino Acids, Dextrose,
Formaldehyde or Formalin, Inorganic Salts, MRC-5 Cellular Protein, Neomycin
Sulfate, 2-Phenoxyethanol, Phosphate Buffers, Polysorbate 20, Thimerosal*,
Vitamins, Yeast Protein
Human Papillomavirus (HPV)
(Cerverix)
3-O-desacyl-4’-monophosphoryl lipid A (MPL), Aluminum Hydroxide, Amino
Acids, Insect Cell Protein, Mineral Salts, Sodium Dihydrogen Phosphate
Dihydrate, Vitamins
Human Papillomavirus (HPV)
(Gardasil)
Amino Acids, Amorphous Aluminum Hydroxyphosphate Sulfate,
Carbohydrates, L-histidine, Mineral Salts, Polysorbate 80, Sodium Borate,
Vitamins
Influenza (Afluria)
Beta-Propiolactone, Calcium Chloride, Neomycin, Ovalbumin, Polymyxin B,
Potassium Chloride, Potassium Phosphate, Sodium Phosphate, Sodium
Taurodeoxychoalate
Influenza (Agriflu)
Cetyltrimethylammonium Bromide (CTAB), Egg Protein, Formaldehyde or
Formalin, Kanamycin, Neomycin Sulfate, Polysorbate 80
Influenza (Fluarix)
Egg Albumin (Ovalbumin), Egg Protein, Formaldehyde or Formalin,
Gentamicin, Hydrocortisone, Octoxynol-10, α-Tocopheryl Hydrogen Succinate,
Polysorbate 80, Sodium Deoxycholate, Sodium Phosphate, Thimerosal*
Influenza (Flulaval)
Egg Albumin (Ovalbumin), Egg Protein, Formaldehyde or Formalin, Sodium
Deoxycholate, Phosphate Buffers, Thimerosal
Influenza (Fluvirin)
Beta-Propiolactone , Egg Protein, Neomycin, Polymyxin B, Polyoxyethylene
9-10 Nonyl Phenol (Triton N-101, Octoxynol 9), Thimerosal (multidose
containers), Thimerosal* (single-dose syringes)
Influenza (Fluzone)
Egg Protein, Formaldehyde or Formalin, Gelatin, Octoxinol-9 (Triton X-100),
Thimerosal (multidose containers)
Influenza (FluMist)
Chick Kidney Cells, Egg Protein, Gentamicin Sulfate, Monosodium Glutamate,
Sucrose Phosphate Glutamate Buffer
IPV (Ipol)
Calf Serum Protein, Formaldehyde or Formalin, Monkey Kidney Tissue,
Neomycin, 2-Phenoxyethanol, Polymyxin B, Streptomycin,
Japanese Encephalitis
(JE-Vax)
Formaldehyde or Formalin, Gelatin, Mouse Serum Protein, Polysorbate 80,
Thimerosal
Japanese Encephalitis (Ixiaro)
Aluminum Hydroxide, Bovine Serum Albumin, Formaldehyde, Protamine
Sulfate, Sodium Metabisulphite
Meningococcal (Menactra) Formaldehyde or Formalin, Phosphate Buffers
Meningococcal (Menomune) Lactose, Thimerosal (10-dose vials only)
Meningococcal (Menveo) Amino Acid, Formaldehyde or Formalin, Yeast
MMR (MMR-II)
Amino Acid, Bovine Albumin or Serum, Chick Embryo Fibroblasts, Human
Serum Albumin, Gelatin, Glutamate, Neomycin, Phosphate Buffers, Sorbitol,
Sucrose, Vitamins

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/B/excipient-table-2.pdf

but the drug companies love you....they want you to be well.
they don't lobby the government non stop for this do they? /S

it is so obvious.

ryanmkeisling
12-13-2011, 12:51 AM
...how's that working out for ya?

LOL @ ^ This.

puppetmaster
12-13-2011, 12:54 AM
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig5/mercola39.1.html

so many articles that do link to other medical issues.

donnay
12-13-2011, 01:26 AM
I'm sorry to say this because you seem like an intelligent, reasoned person, but these links are all garbage. And it doesn't mean anything if a person is 50 and perfectly healthy without vaccines, I would probably be perfectly healthy without any vaccines also. The reason is because everyone around me HAS been vaccinated and so even if I wasn't vaccinated I am benefiting from everyone else. But the persons who are not vaccinated are basically taking advantage of those who are.

You silly little person, you continue to spew the same propaganda...many vaccines have 'live' viruses in them. When someone gets a vaccine they become the host to the virus they were inoculated with. If anything, the host is the one that spreads diseases, not the person who did not get vaccinated. You do not benefit by being around anyone who had been vaccinated.

Did You Know that.

7 vaccines (polio, hepatitis A, varicella, pertussis, diphtheria, tetanus, and haemophilus influenzae b) have NOT been "evaluated or tested for their carcinogenic potential, mutagenic potential, or for impairment of fertility" or "reproductive capacity" according the vaccine manufacturers' own product inserts.

3 vaccines (varicella, hepatitis A, and rubella) were cultured in human diploid cells (eg. human embryonic lung cell cultures and human diploid cell cultures WI-38 and MRC-5). The Chickenpox vaccine contains "residual components of MRC-5 cells including DNA and protein."

6 vaccines (polio, hepatitis B, hepatitis A, pertussis, diphtheria, and tetanus) contain formaldehyde - a highly noxious and carcinogenic preservative.

5 vaccines (hepatitis B, pertussis, diphtheria, tetanus, and haemophilus influenzae b) contain thimerosal, a mercury derivative preservative BANNED by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) in over-the-counter (OTC) drug preparations because of questions over safety. (Federal Register: April 22, 1998 (Volume 63, Number 77)][Page 19799-19802]

5 vaccines (hepatitis B, hepatitis A, pertussis, diphtheria, and tetanus) contain aluminum as an adjuvant. Aluminum accumulates in brain, muscle and bone tissue and can be linked to causing fibrosarcomas (cancerous tumors) at the injection site.

5 vaccines (measles, mumps, polio, varicella, and diphtheria) are developed from animal ingredients including cell cultures of chick embryos, monkey kidney cells, fetal bovine serum, and embryonic guinea pig cell cultures. There has been a moratorium in this country on animal organ transplants in humans because of concerns of people contracting latent animal viruses. Despite the history of unscreened animal viruses infecting humans from injectable products like vaccines [monkey cells and SV40 virus and bovine serum and "Mad Cow Disease" (bovine spongiform encephalopathy)], this practice continues with vaccines.

5 vaccines (measles, mumps, rubella, polio, and varicella) are LIVE virus vaccines. Live virus vaccines can sometimes infect the recipient and can even sometimes infect those in close contact with the recipient. These vaccines are given to young children, and vaccine immunity sometimes wears off for adults. This can put a pregnant mother or immunocompromised adult at risk by being around a recently vaccinated child with live virus vaccines.

For ALL 11 vaccines there have been NO long term studies on the cumulative effect on the child's developing immune system of combining all these vaccines together.

For ALL 11 vaccines the biological mechanism for why some children react to a vaccine is not understood.

For ALL 11 vaccines there are no genetic or other lab screening tests available to determine which children will react to a vaccine.

http://vaccineinfo.net/immunization/vaccine_facts.shtml


There is absolutely NO LINK between autism and vaccines. Absolutely nothing. I challenge you to find 1 single study that found evidence, because there isn't one. There was someone in England a few years ago who claimed that vaccines caused autism and published a paper and it was later found out that he fabricated his data. No one in the world has been able to replicate this finding.

Read and research:
http://www.ageofautism.com/dr-andrew-wakefield/
http://www.naturalnews.com/033425_BMJ_Andrew_Wakefield.html
http://vaccineliberationarmy.com/dr-andrew-wakefield-speaks-at-the-american-assoc-of-physicians-and-surgeons/


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vn3hwgnfaW0


I don't think you have done any research on rabies. Rabies is 100% fatal if a person gets it. Not 75%, 82%, or 96%, but 100%. Everyone who gets rabies dies unless they get the vaccine.

California Girl Only Third in U.S. to Survive Rabies Without Vaccine (http://abcnews.go.com/Health/california-girl-us-survive-rabies/story?id=13830407#.Tubyd1tNquM)

Rabies, Vaccine and Health Principles (http://www.vaclib.org/intro/rabies.htm)
Rabies vaccination (http://www.whale.to/v/ruesch.html)
The Big Scam: Rabies Vaccination (http://www.naturalrearing.com/coda/a_rabies_the_big_scam.html)


I'm not opposed to thinking that vaccines might be bad but I have probably done far more research than you and have yet to come across anything that would suggest it.

:rolleyes:

If you want to learn more about the population reduction type, “Henry Kissinger” and “memo 200” into any search engine. Vaccines are considered soft kill weapon by the eugenicist who run the medical industry and these eugenicist are all for population reduction. In the 1950's and 1960's polio vaccines had Simian virus 40 (SV40) in it. Do you know what SV40 is?

http://www.vaccinetruth.org/sv40.htm

Again, until you start to fit the pieces of the puzzle together, you will remain puzzled.

Birdlady
12-13-2011, 12:45 PM
That isn't necessarily true, just find out the culprit in many cases it's thimersal or aluminum, and go for a chelation treatment (http://www.naturalnews.com/026885_natural_zeolite_heavy_metals.html). You can redo the damage of almost everything in the body naturally, when you use oxygen therapy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yD4n-y48YuU), glutathione (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh2PYQBICWs), and B12 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=za6HevIMOZM) to repair cell damage (http://www.immune-health-solutions-for-you.com/dna-mutation.html), optimize the immune system (http://www.prohealth.com/library/showarticle.cfm?libid=7597), remove metals (http://autism-nutrition.com/hbot-autism), ATP, mitochondria, and/or energy (http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/CFS_-_The_Central_Cause:_Mitochondrial_Failure),remove free radical damage (http://www.dockidd.com/pdf/KiddGSHAMR.pdf) and oxidative stress (http://www.dockidd.com/pdf/KiddGSHAMR.pdf). All cells that are damaged are in an anaerobic (http://www.doctorsexercise.com/journal/aerobic.htm) state and need oxygen to survive. Anything in the body can be repaired with the exception of a destroyed limb, or organ (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/12/081214190945.htm) then you can seek adult stem cell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adult_stem_cell) or regenerative medicine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regenerative_medicine) which works.

You should see how oxygen therapy has saved countless lives with people who have had brain injuries and comas. Here is a patient who used it here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbFs9NN__Mk).

I will say the same thing I said to another forum member on here. I have taken lots of B12, DMSA and DMPS to chelate and it hasn't been a cure unfortunately. Things are not that easy and while I think chelation is good, it isn't a quick fix. It takes years of chelation to get better especially if you have been sick for a lot of years. Children tend to be able to chelate for a few months and get better. I think probably because the damage is less severe. I have to take it very easy because I get severe hives when I chelate. http://adrenal-fatigue-nightmare.blogspot.com/2011/04/hives-got-real-bad-real-quick.html

What you read online, even if it makes sense, it does not mean its guaranteed to work. Have you ever been sick? The reason I ask is because I find those who have never had anything seriously wrong with them, think these theories are amazing and bullletproof. Meanwhile those who are sick and have tried them, don't find it nearly as exciting because it hasn't worked. Things on a webpage are mostly based on a theory and not from personal experience or a case study. I have tried a lot of different "cures" over the years and nothing has worked thus far. There have been many times I have said, "This is it. This will be the cure" and I was only letdown.

Some of these more obscure things you have listed (stem cell and hyperbaric chamber), I simply do not have any way to pay for it at this time. It is such a vicious cycle though. You can't make money until you are healthy, but then you can't get healthy without money and lots of it. I've already spent probably close to 30k on my health over the years.

Magicman
12-13-2011, 04:23 PM
Double Post

Magicman
12-13-2011, 04:39 PM
The question is how were you given the B12? Was it a tablet?

I understand what you're saying about stem cell and hyperbaric but if you have not tried oxidative therapies then you are missing out on one of the most effective ways to fix your problem. You can try Ozone Therapy which is a lot less expensive then hyperbaric but I listed a very cheaper one then that. Also, adjusting your diet to include a B vitamin diet and avoiding gluten would be important. Here is a step by step plan by Dr. Mark Hyman here (http://drhyman.com/how-to-rid-your-body-of-mercury-and-other-heavy-metals-a-3-step-plan-to-recover-your-health-523/). I would do a google search on Dr. Mark Hyman he has the best information available for free on your condition and has had the same condition as you.

If you couldn't afford those chelation techniques there are very cheap ones that I started a thread here.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?337180-Safe-Cheap-and-Natural-Ways-to-Chelate-Mercury-Lead-and-Aluminum

Dr. Mark Hyman on how to fix a broken brain

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2009/mar2009_Mark-Hyman-Healing-Broken-Brain-Syndrome_01.htm

Here is another oxygen therapy called Cell Food, it is the cheapest oxygen therapy you're going to find and a powerful way to help you.

http://www.naturalhealing4life.net/

Here is the ingredients

http://www.balancedforhealth.com/cellfoodingredients.htm#Aspartic Acid:

They also have another product that speeds up DNA/RNA repairing the cells (one of the factors of mercury poisoning as well as other inactive ingredients in vaccines) and increasing the bodies ATP production. Why is ATP production important in a brain disorder? Check it out here (http://www.oohoi.com/healthy_living/vitamin-info/vitamin-b.htm). If you understand that you need a Vitamin B diet you'll understand that ATP works in synergy with it. This is something when combined with the original Cell Food would be a powerful combination.

http://www.cellfood.com/dna.htm

I have to say that I have tried a lot of the things I mention and they have worked for me. I use glutathione and B12 and its very effective technique for Fibromyalgia as well as effective for all diseases and neurological problems. I almost cured myself of it except my sleeping problems got to the point where my body wasn't repairing itself enough then I had a nerve injury which damaged all of my connective tissue and I lost my amygdala. I also had mercury poisoning, the loss of the amygdala is causing me a lot of grammatical problems (I used to be have high grades in English), tinnitus, back injury, gluten allergies, seizures, sleep apnea and night terrors.

http://www.peak-health-now.com/coffee_enema_facts.html

You can buy NAC or Glutathione from a natural food store I would avoid products that contain magnesium stearate though.


Glutathione S-transferase (GST) is a major enzyme system that captures electrophiles (reactive carcinogenic compounds), and metabolizes xenobiotics (toxic elements from drugs, pesticides, etc.). It removes many kinds of toxic radicals from your blood stream.

Glutathione is used by the body to detoxify and remove dangerous elements such as mercury.

GST binds these destructive poisons with reduced glutathione (an amino acid that is a powerful antioxidant and detoxifier), so they can't escape, and escorts them safely out of the body. The coffee itself is also eliminated.

Magicman
12-13-2011, 05:35 PM
You silly little person, you continue to spew the same propaganda...many vaccines have 'live' viruses in them. When someone gets a vaccine they become the host to the virus they were inoculated with. If anything, the host is the one that spreads diseases, not the person who did not get vaccinated. You do not benefit by being around anyone who had been vaccinated.

Did You Know that.

7 vaccines (polio, hepatitis A, varicella, pertussis, diphtheria, tetanus, and haemophilus influenzae b) have NOT been "evaluated or tested for their carcinogenic potential, mutagenic potential, or for impairment of fertility" or "reproductive capacity" according the vaccine manufacturers' own product inserts.

3 vaccines (varicella, hepatitis A, and rubella) were cultured in human diploid cells (eg. human embryonic lung cell cultures and human diploid cell cultures WI-38 and MRC-5). The Chickenpox vaccine contains "residual components of MRC-5 cells including DNA and protein."

6 vaccines (polio, hepatitis B, hepatitis A, pertussis, diphtheria, and tetanus) contain formaldehyde - a highly noxious and carcinogenic preservative.

5 vaccines (hepatitis B, pertussis, diphtheria, tetanus, and haemophilus influenzae b) contain thimerosal, a mercury derivative preservative BANNED by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) in over-the-counter (OTC) drug preparations because of questions over safety. (Federal Register: April 22, 1998 (Volume 63, Number 77)][Page 19799-19802]

5 vaccines (hepatitis B, hepatitis A, pertussis, diphtheria, and tetanus) contain aluminum as an adjuvant. Aluminum accumulates in brain, muscle and bone tissue and can be linked to causing fibrosarcomas (cancerous tumors) at the injection site.

5 vaccines (measles, mumps, polio, varicella, and diphtheria) are developed from animal ingredients including cell cultures of chick embryos, monkey kidney cells, fetal bovine serum, and embryonic guinea pig cell cultures. There has been a moratorium in this country on animal organ transplants in humans because of concerns of people contracting latent animal viruses. Despite the history of unscreened animal viruses infecting humans from injectable products like vaccines [monkey cells and SV40 virus and bovine serum and "Mad Cow Disease" (bovine spongiform encephalopathy)], this practice continues with vaccines.

5 vaccines (measles, mumps, rubella, polio, and varicella) are LIVE virus vaccines. Live virus vaccines can sometimes infect the recipient and can even sometimes infect those in close contact with the recipient. These vaccines are given to young children, and vaccine immunity sometimes wears off for adults. This can put a pregnant mother or immunocompromised adult at risk by being around a recently vaccinated child with live virus vaccines.

For ALL 11 vaccines there have been NO long term studies on the cumulative effect on the child's developing immune system of combining all these vaccines together.

For ALL 11 vaccines the biological mechanism for why some children react to a vaccine is not understood.

For ALL 11 vaccines there are no genetic or other lab screening tests available to determine which children will react to a vaccine.

http://vaccineinfo.net/immunization/vaccine_facts.shtml


Read and research:
http://www.ageofautism.com/dr-andrew-wakefield/
http://www.naturalnews.com/033425_BMJ_Andrew_Wakefield.html
http://vaccineliberationarmy.com/dr-andrew-wakefield-speaks-at-the-american-assoc-of-physicians-and-surgeons/


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vn3hwgnfaW0



California Girl Only Third in U.S. to Survive Rabies Without Vaccine (http://abcnews.go.com/Health/california-girl-us-survive-rabies/story?id=13830407#.Tubyd1tNquM)

Rabies, Vaccine and Health Principles (http://www.vaclib.org/intro/rabies.htm)
Rabies vaccination (http://www.whale.to/v/ruesch.html)
The Big Scam: Rabies Vaccination (http://www.naturalrearing.com/coda/a_rabies_the_big_scam.html)



:rolleyes:

If you want to learn more about the population reduction type, “Henry Kissinger” and “memo 200” into any search engine. Vaccines are considered soft kill weapon by the eugenicist who run the medical industry and these eugenicist are all for population reduction. In the 1950's and 1960's polio vaccines had Simian virus 40 (SV40) in it. Do you know what SV40 is?

http://www.vaccinetruth.org/sv40.htm

Again, until you start to fit the pieces of the puzzle together, you will remain puzzled.


You could point out the obvious and these similar types always continue to push the same methods that have been shown to be poisonous, none of them would state the obvious that maybe these toxic substances don't belong in there, instead they defend them and say that they are in small quantities (even though the maker never clarifies on the relevance of what small or trace quantities means), they seem to have concern for only methods that are proven dangerous and money-making rather then helpful to the patient, after you prove them wrong, they then to try and change the language of the argument to confuse you or misrepresent their arguments, usually at this point there caught in a lie when they twist words around to suit their agenda, you'll find that almost all of the products that contain toxic substances do the same exact thing with their careful wording, they are usually very disingenuine people, and lack empathy for those who are dying and attack alternative methods at all costs neglecting the fact that their team has been proven a lot less effective, dangerous, and expensive, they usually groupthink and attack in groups on forums and a lot of times leave bad comments on Youtube or blogs, usually there approach is suspicious and they have vested interest and usually work for these agencies while acting as if they are your average people, you can tell that their language consistently uses phrases from the establishment agencies because instead of having their own opinion it's all hierachical from the agency they are defending or it just maybe the fact that they are reptilians that look a lot like Godzilla and share a collective hive mind. Here is proof of that here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8trsDPpAI5E). *sarcasm*

zeloc
12-15-2011, 11:47 PM
..

zeloc
12-15-2011, 11:48 PM
So, your position is that if you sincerely believe, with all your heart, that something I oppose will benefit me, you have the right to force it on me, against my will? Or is it that you believe that if doing something to me, against my will, will benefit YOU, you have the right to violate my body? What happens when you forcibly inoculate the child of an "ignorant" parent, against both the child's and parents's will, and the child gets a dose from a bad batch, or just has a bad reaction (have you ever read a vaccine insert), and dies? Will you assume any responsibility for the tragedy you helped create?

If you have such disregard for individual liberty, why do you support Dr Paul?

I support Dr. Paul because I agree with every other position he holds. The reason why I feel this way about vaccines is because it is a POPULATION HEALTH issue. Far more individuals are saved from these treatments than any side effects/reactions.

zeloc
12-15-2011, 11:51 PM
To donnay: I stand corrected about rabies being 100% fatal. Still, this girl was in the ICU and 3 cases out of who knows how many deaths is for all intents and purposes, 100% fatal.

While you go to great lengths to document every possible problem with every vaccine, do you realize that there is a good chance that the human race would have been extinct by now if it hadn't been for vaccines? Read about the history of influenza. If you grew up in the time of polio you wouldn't feel the same way that you do now. Google some pictures of iron lungs. This stuff isn't made up.

zeloc
12-16-2011, 12:00 AM
I'm surprised you're posting stuff about Wakefield. No one has been able to replicate his findings regarding autism. In addition, he had serious financial conflicts of interest when he was writing that paper, and he was filing a patent for a vaccination that he was developing with the assumption that he would discredit the MMR vaccine. Totally dishonest. All of this anti-vaccine stuff is of the same poor quality.

zeloc
12-16-2011, 12:08 AM
tinnitus, back injury, gluten allergies, seizures, sleep apnea and night terrors.


How do you know all these problems aren't from all these substances you're taking?

Magicman
12-16-2011, 11:10 AM
I'm surprised you're posting stuff about Wakefield. No one has been able to replicate his findings regarding autism. In addition, he had serious financial conflicts of interest when he was writing that paper, and he was filing a patent for a vaccination that he was developing with the assumption that he would discredit the MMR vaccine. Totally dishonest. All of this anti-vaccine stuff is of the same poor quality.

We should trust your argument because when you use your own facts you're caught with manipulating data, then when Donnay uses information instead of dissecting it and proving it wrong you just state it's "same poor quality". If you were genuine you wouldn't be defending putting toxic ingredients in vaccines but you're not.


How do you know all these problems aren't from all these substances you're taking?

Gee, Zeloc let's just throw out baseless accusations when you have no more arguments left?

An amygdala injury opens you up to a lot of problems such as sleep apnea and tinnitus, my night terrors came from taking the prescription Paxil. My back injury came from a bad workout routine. I have no idea where the gluten allergy came from but it certainly didn't come from a natural substance.

Magicman
12-16-2011, 11:19 AM
I support Dr. Paul because I agree with every other position he holds. The reason why I feel this way about vaccines is because it is a POPULATION HEALTH issue. Far more individuals are saved from these treatments than any side effects/reactions.

You could give a shit about helping people stop using that as an excuse when it's obvious you were caught manipulating data about the toxicity of poisons. If you really cared about helping people no self-respecting researcher would want any poisonous materials in a vaccine and would be adamant to ban the practice of it yet you keep defending it.

If you were a doctor and told his patients that your vaccine was "safe" just like on this board, I would be glad to sue you.

Magicman
12-16-2011, 02:40 PM
This basically shuts down Zeloc's argument that mercury in vaccines are safe and also explains how mercury infiltrates the entire bodies production of glutathione and binds to enzymes that produce it so this means that it weakens your immune system.

Donnay, save this video. This expert on Mercury toxicity was poisoned and knows what he's talking about. This is great advice.

It explains one of the most dangerous things about mercury is that "One gene in particular is very important because it’s related to the body’s production of glutathione, our most powerful detoxifier and antioxidant. Your body can only excrete mercury when it’s bound with glutathione.

The polymorphism of the gene that controls the enzyme glutathione-S-transferase (GSST) prevents excretion of mercury. That is the gene problem I have that led to my mercury toxicity. When that happens, the mercury stays in tissues and does damage. Plus, mercury also binds to key enzymes that help us produce glutathione — in effect helping itself accumulate in our bodies.

Research also shows that people suffering from symptoms like fatigue, irritability, mood disorders, poor concentration, headaches, and insomnia due to their amalgam fillings are more likely than their peers to have the apolipoprotein E 4 (ApoE 4) gene. (vii)".


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOhcUvHOTVk&feature=player_embedded

Birdlady
12-17-2011, 12:06 PM
The question is how were you given the B12? Was it a tablet?

I understand what you're saying about stem cell and hyperbaric but if you have not tried oxidative therapies then you are missing out on one of the most effective ways to fix your problem. You can try Ozone Therapy which is a lot less expensive then hyperbaric but I listed a very cheaper one then that. Also, adjusting your diet to include a B vitamin diet and avoiding gluten would be important. Here is a step by step plan by Dr. Mark Hyman here (http://drhyman.com/how-to-rid-your-body-of-mercury-and-other-heavy-metals-a-3-step-plan-to-recover-your-health-523/). I would do a google search on Dr. Mark Hyman he has the best information available for free on your condition and has had the same condition as you.

How can you say you know what my problem is, when even after many years of testing, I do not even know my problem. Also you are suggesting that Dr. Hyman had POTS (http://www.dinet.org/pots_an_overview.htm)? ... Where are you getting this information from if you don't mind me asking? I have been gluten free for almost 3 years now. I used to inject myself daily with methyl B12. I never cheat on my GF diet and I watch meticulously for cross contamination. Please read my blog I linked in the other post. It's pretty clear you didn't even take a look at it. /sigh I've taken the time out to read and watch your videos, you have linked, but I also expect you to read mine too. Doesn't seem fair to dumb information off, expect me to read it all, but then don't take even a glance at what I've posted.

I have taken, NAC, cilantro, chlorella, EDTA, DMPS, DMSA and tons of supplements over the years. I'm not cured.

Magicman
12-17-2011, 10:42 PM
How can you say you know what my problem is, when even after many years of testing, I do not even know my problem. Also you are suggesting that Dr. Hyman had POTS (http://www.dinet.org/pots_an_overview.htm)? ... Where are you getting this information from if you don't mind me asking? I have been gluten free for almost 3 years now. I used to inject myself daily with methyl B12. I never cheat on my GF diet and I watch meticulously for cross contamination. Please read my blog I linked in the other post. It's pretty clear you didn't even take a look at it. /sigh I've taken the time out to read and watch your videos, you have linked, but I also expect you to read mine too. Doesn't seem fair to dumb information off, expect me to read it all, but then don't take even a glance at what I've posted.

I have taken, NAC, cilantro, chlorella, EDTA, DMPS, DMSA and tons of supplements over the years. I'm not cured.

I apologize, I thought you just had mercury poisoning but your symptoms come from other problems that may not have anything to do with that. I believe that the treatments you are getting do work but there is something else that is affecting it that is the main problem. You need to find a way to control your production of nitric oxide. Your body is producing too much free radical damage by overproducing peroxynitrite. You need to find a way to lower the production of this and I'm trying to find a way how that is possible.

This article provides a very interesting perspective on why your symptoms are worse.

http://potsweb.50webs.com/


One promising but unproven theory is that CFS causes orthostatic intolerance through an inflammatory process on nerve cells, mitochondria, and cells of the immune system through an excess of nitric oxide production. Women's bodies naturally produce more nitric oxide than men, which could help explain why more women get CFS than men.
"The theory starts with the observation that infections that precede and may therefore induce CFS and related conditions act to induce excessive production of inflammatory cytokines that induce, in turn, the inducible nitric oxide synthase (iNOS). This enzyme, in turn, synthesizes excessive amounts of nitric oxide which reacts with another compound (superoxide) to produce the potent oxidant peroxynitrite. Peroxynitrite acts via six known biochemical mechanisms to increase the levels of both nitric oxide and superoxide which react to produce more peroxynitrite. In this way, once peroxynitrite levels are elevated, they may act to continue the elevation, thus producing a self-sustaining vicious cycle. It is this cycle, according to the theory, that maintains the chronic symptoms of CFS and it is this cycle, therefore, that must be interrupted to effectively treat this condition."

Here is a case study that talks about the same thing that excess nitric oxide causing free radical damage is causing the problem in postural tachycardia syndrome. There are a lot of studies that prove the same thing.

http://ajpheart.physiology.org/content/301/3/H704.short

This provides a plan to help reduce peroxynitrite but there is also more to be researched

http://www.chiro.org/nutrition/ABSTRACTS/Chronic_Fatigue_Syndrome.shtml

This video and article explains what foods have high amounts of Nitric oxide so you can avoid these foods and use it to avoid creating peroxynitrite.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlSyl_h-UDc

http://www.livestrong.com/article/417648-what-foods-contain-nitric-oxide/

Also, take a close look at how acetylcholine receptors are causing problems as well as the Nitric Oxide...

Raj SR, Black BK, Biaggioni I, Robertson D. Acetylcholinesterase inhibition improves tachycardia in postural tachycardia syndrome. Circulation. 2005; 111: 2734–2740.

http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/111/21/2734.full.pdf

donnay
12-17-2011, 11:11 PM
I'm surprised you're posting stuff about Wakefield. No one has been able to replicate his findings regarding autism. In addition, he had serious financial conflicts of interest when he was writing that paper, and he was filing a patent for a vaccination that he was developing with the assumption that he would discredit the MMR vaccine. Totally dishonest. All of this anti-vaccine stuff is of the same poor quality.

Dr. Wakefield has been exonerated.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-395903/MMR-row-doctor-defied-Government-clear.html

http://www.naturalnews.com/031056_autism_vaccines.html

Magicman
12-17-2011, 11:33 PM
Dr. Wakefield has been exonerated.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-395903/MMR-row-doctor-defied-Government-clear.html

http://www.naturalnews.com/031056_autism_vaccines.html


Go figure, a doctor with a conscience gets charges against him, and penalized and the doctors who knowingly inject poisons into babies get rewarded by these companies.

If Zeloc was greeted by an audience this would happen here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_2sZIvrb0Y). Here's a picture of Zeloc from high school here (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_AKWEkRnyoAc/TSz9TZnQIBI/AAAAAAAAAwI/Hm358iosIcA/s1600/the+reptile.jpg).

playboymommy
12-17-2011, 11:45 PM
I never gave vaccinations a second thought until I saw posts about it here. Like most blind and ignorant people, I had my daughter vaccinated. Thankfully she has no health problems. Should I have another child again and educate myself more about vaccinations, I'm terrified more and more and I believe I would refuse them for my child.

I work for a program that provides early intervention services for children with developmental delays. So many of them are diagnosed with all these developmental problems, Autism being one. I wonder if it is because of the vaccinations or are doctors throwing the diagnosis around lightly? If vaccinations are dangerous, why am I OK? Or my daughter, siblings, loved ones, etc. Why are we all OK? On another note, the nurse in our program, I don't understand her thinking. She was an Obama supporter, she's a vegan because of chemicals in meats, yet she is always sending us emails about getting flu vaccines and handed out these hand bags that said, "Vaccinate Allegheny County." I try to speak to her about Ron Paul and she has this mentality that since Obama turned out to be a fake, Ron Paul will as well. I don't get it.

Magicman
12-17-2011, 11:48 PM
I never gave vaccinations a second thought until I saw posts about it here. Like most blind and ignorant people, I had my daughter vaccinated. Thankfully she has no health problems. Should I have another child again and educate myself more about vaccinations, I'm terrified more and more and I believe I would refuse them for my child.

I work for a program that provides early intervention services for children with developmental delays. So many of them are diagnosed with all these developmental problems, Autism being one. I wonder if it is because of the vaccinations or are doctors throwing the diagnosis around lightly? If vaccinations are dangerous, why am I OK? Or my daughter, siblings, loved ones, etc. Why are we all OK? On another note, the nurse in our program, I don't understand her thinking. She was an Obama supporter, she's a vegan because of chemicals in meats, yet she is always sending us emails about getting flu vaccines and handed out these hand bags that said, "Vaccinate Allegheny County." I try to speak to her about Ron Paul and she has this mentality that since Obama turned out to be a fake, Ron Paul will as well. I don't get it.

Every person is different and able to process enzymes differently. These poisons alter genetic material and attack the enzymes but every human being functions differently in the way they produce enzymes, so those people who don't strongly produce the GSH or Glutathione enzyme in the body or in most cases unable to resist the poisons with their enzymes are prone to having autism from mercury toxicity.

Those people whom you work with should seek the advice of a biomedical doctor who is an expert on treating autism. This doctor is a prime example of one that knows what he's talking about.

If you feel like you can make a difference in autistic children's life the best thing you can do is buy this book and get copies of it that come from Dr. Kurt Woeller and find a legitimate way to pass it to them without compromising your job. As far as Ron Paul tell her that he accepted a salary of only $30,000, everything he says is genuine and can be backed up, his record of 30 years is impeccable. He is consistent and never flip flops, he is pro health freedom and wants to limit government bureaucracy in healthcare.

Book on treating Autism by Dr. Kurt Woeller

http://autismsupplementscenter.com/guide-book/


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-j3TgVuiHUE

Jenny Mccarthy, who has a son who used biomedical therapy no longer has any symptoms. This is Dr. Kurt Woeller interviewing her.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q53gWyG05ns

donnay
12-18-2011, 12:31 AM
Go figure, a doctor with a conscience gets charges against him, and penalized and the doctors who knowingly inject poisons into babies get rewarded by these companies.

If Zeloc was greeted by an audience this would happen here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_2sZIvrb0Y). Here's a picture of Zeloc from high school here (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_AKWEkRnyoAc/TSz9TZnQIBI/AAAAAAAAAwI/Hm358iosIcA/s1600/the+reptile.jpg).

LOL!

Birdlady
12-18-2011, 01:29 PM
Here is a case study that talks about the same thing that excess nitric oxide causing free radical damage is causing the problem in postural tachycardia syndrome. There are a lot of studies that prove the same thing.

http://ajpheart.physiology.org/content/301/3/H704.short

This provides a plan to help reduce peroxynitrite but there is also more to be researched

http://www.chiro.org/nutrition/ABSTRACTS/Chronic_Fatigue_Syndrome.shtml

This video and article explains what foods have high amounts of Nitric oxide so you can avoid these foods and use it to avoid creating peroxynitrite.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlSyl_h-UDc

http://www.livestrong.com/article/417648-what-foods-contain-nitric-oxide/

Also, take a close look at how acetylcholine receptors are causing problems as well as the Nitric Oxide...

Raj SR, Black BK, Biaggioni I, Robertson D. Acetylcholinesterase inhibition improves tachycardia in postural tachycardia syndrome. Circulation. 2005; 111: 2734–2740.


http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/111/21/2734.full.pdf
Thanks for admitting you didn't read my stuff...lol Well finally we are on the same page. I've already been through everything you posted, years ago. There is probably no cure for all of the things you just posted. There is a medicine called Mestinon that may help with acetylcholine, but it isn't a cure by any means. I know that POTS and CFS can go together, but I just do not have CFS. I strictly have a mild hyperadrenergic form of POTS. Some CFS is caused by low nitric oxide, so there's no 1 size fits all cure. For every study you find on high Nitric Oxide, you'll find ones for the exact opposite condition. Same goes for POTS patients too. Either end of the spectrum is implicated in these phantom disorders.

List of causes (http://dinet.org/what_causes_pots.htm) for POTS.

At this point, I don't think there is a cure at all. That doesn't mean I don't keep trying, but I have to be realistic too.

Magicman
12-18-2011, 01:50 PM
Thanks for admitting you didn't read my stuff...lol Well finally we are on the same page. I've already been through everything you posted, years ago. There is probably no cure for all of the things you just posted. There is a medicine called Mestinon that may help with acetylcholine, but it isn't a cure by any means. I know that POTS and CFS can go together, but I just do not have CFS. I strictly have a mild hyperadrenergic form of POTS. Some CFS is caused by low nitric oxide, so there's no 1 size fits all cure. Same goes for POTS patients too. Either end of the spectrum is implicated in these phantom disorders.

List of causes (http://dinet.org/what_causes_pots.htm) for POTS.

At this point, I don't think there is a cure at all. That doesn't mean I don't keep trying, but I have to be realistic too.


For every study you find on high Nitric Oxide, you'll find ones for the exact opposite condition.

Every treatment you have been taking is geared towards free radical damage and oxidative stress. You seem to know what your talking about but yet you haven't found a way to find out whether your levels are high or low, that is the most important thing to work on. Otherwise, your just guessing and not knowing what is effective. If they are low then you can take arginine and citrulline to create nitric oxide they sell that stuff at GNC. You need to find a test and a doctor that can determine that so you can strategize the right treatment for NO levels.



I know that POTS and CFS can go together, but I just do not have CFS.

That is why I listed a case study for POTS and the other listing was POTS but talked about other symptoms as well. Again, you need to find out whether your NO levels are low or high.

Birdlady
12-18-2011, 02:17 PM
What studies are you talking about? Can you list them. Every treatment you have been taking is geared towards free radical damage and oxidative stress. You seem to know what your talking about but yet you haven't found a way to find out whether your levels are high or low, maybe you should work on that.

Here is one study and a link to a forum thread talking about it. Search nitric oxide on that forum and you will find tons of posts from people on both sides of the spectrum.
http://en.cnki.com.cn/Article_en/CJFDTOTAL-YXXX200908062.htm
http://forums.dinet.org/index.php?/topic/17243-concentrations-of-serum-nitric-oxide-in-pots/page__hl__%2Bnitric+%2Boxide__fromsearch__1
http://forums.dinet.org/index.php?/topic/18233-increased-nitric-oxide-in-a-major-pots-subset/page__hl__%2Bnitric+%2Boxide__fromsearch__1

I have been focusing on high nitric oxide. I think that's what I have, but I'm just saying that the complete opposite may be true too...That's what makes POTS confusing. You can have high blood pressure, low blood pressure, normal blood pressure, high norepinephrine, low norepinephrine, high blood volume, or low blood volume, yet all of those people together have have POTS. Then take into consideration how many people in this country have low blood pressure without POTS. Or have low blood volume without POTS, then you see why none of this even matters. lol

That's why I think it is incurable and it is in fact damage from a vaccination or some other environmental toxin. Most people with POTS were not born with it and it is acquired after a vaccination, virus, illness or accident. It tends to affect more women and you get it in your teenage years, which makes you essentially disabled in a lot of ways. The quality of life for someone with POTS is on the same scale as an older person with COPD or congestive heart failure.

If POTS is caused by a vaccine, I do not believe it is just a heavy metals thing, but an actual result of the antigens/viruses injected into the body.

Getting all of these things tested takes money and a doctor who knows how to interpret them. I don't have either...haha
http://forums.dinet.org/index.php?/topic/17556-how-to-test-for-angtensin-ii-and-nitric-oxide/page__hl__%2Bnitric+%2Boxide__fromsearch__1

Magicman
12-18-2011, 03:36 PM
If you think it was a vaccine then there are reports of Gardasil causing POTS.

http://forums.dinet.org/index.php?/topic/18024-vaccine-pots/

https://www.google.com/#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&source=hp&q=gardasil+pots&pbx=1&oq=gardasil+pots&aq=f&aqi=g4&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=3826l7083l0l7165l13l11l0l0l0l0l313l1724l0.7 .2.1l10l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=a1bc1589ec616832&biw=1440&bih=783


What are the ingredients in Gardasil

http://www.offtheradar.co.nz/vaccines/52-gardasil-ingredients.html


You should study the poisons and viruses put into this vaccine and see how that could cause your symptoms

musicmax
12-18-2011, 04:01 PM
Ron Paul's point, which he said in the video, is that a person should be allowed not to do something even if it harms him/her. But my point is that not taking certain vaccines DOES harm others, and secondly, I don't believe it's right for a parent to make a choice that is going to harm the child, because the child cannot make the decision for himself/herself.

Who brought the child into the world?

A. The parents.
B. The government.

Mckarnin
12-18-2011, 04:29 PM
Ron Paul's point, which he said in the video, is that a person should be allowed not to do something even if it harms him/her. But my point is that not taking certain vaccines DOES harm others, and secondly, I don't believe it's right for a parent to make a choice that is going to harm the child, because the child cannot make the decision for himself/herself.

Not vaccinating yourself could potentially harm those who are not vaccinated because they are immune compromised but that is not the same as the direct harm of polluting their air with poisons, stealing their property or taking their life. You can't take away one person's liberty because it may potentially be better for someone else (in this case the immune compromised person) if it is taken away.

Also, in "scientific" (aka riddled with conflicts of interest and big pharma money) circles there is indeed much "evidence" that vaccines are safe but there are dissenters who have been penalized heavily and shut out of research circles for coming to different conclusions. In many cases their own statistics show that vaccines are not nearly as effective as one would believe. Also, our government has passed legislation which removes liability from pharmaceutical companies if people's children are harmed by the vaccines so there is really no personal responsibility on their part to make sure their latest "miracle" is safe before unleashing it on the public.

In addition there are little tricks to the safety tests that most people don't know about..for example, vaccines are not tested on infants, they are tested on children and the placebo they are measured against isn't water or saline, it's usually another pre-approved vaccine so you aren't really testing new vaccines against inert substances. So an infant is getting a vaccine in a dose that tested well against another vaccine in children who weigh up to 3 times as much. So when that insert says that swelling, fever, seizures or what have you were no greater than in the placebo that doesn't really say much.

BrooklynZoo
12-18-2011, 05:19 PM
Herd immunity is one of the most ridiculous theories ever. It's as ridiculous as when people think taxing the rich somehow has any relation whatsoever to helping the poor. In fact I don't think it even qualifies as a theory. It's just a poor, nonsensical argument. If you need to have most of the persons around you also be vaccinated in order to not get sick, then the vaccine itself is obviously not effective! If the vaccine is effective, then you should never have to worry about other people being vaccinated, since your immune system is already prepared for the virus, right? Think, people, think. No vaccine will ever touch a child of mine. That's not the government's decision to make.

I had a coworker come down with the flu recently. My first question to him was, "You didn't get the flu vaccine, did you?" Of course, he had, and not long before. I never vaccinate and I never get seriously ill either, including from being around his sick self. Strengthening the immune system does not come from vaccines, it comes through nutrition and exercise and occasional exposure to bad things. This vaccination mythology is as bad as the myth that adding poisonous, toxic fluoride to water is in any way good for you. Ask yourself the question, who benefits from your ignorance, weakness and sickness and why?