Military 'Take Over' Bill passed.

[awake]

Senate Passes Bill that Allows Military to Take Custody of Americans (http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2011/11/senate-passes-bill-that-allows-military.html)
United States soil will be defined as a battlefield (http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2011/11/senate-set-to-vote-on-bill-that-will.html)

Robert Wenzel

if the Senate has its way. The Senate voted to preserve language that will give the U.S. military a crack at al Qaeda operatives captured in the U.S., even if they are American citizens.

Led by Senator Carl Levin, the Michigan Democrat who chairs the Senate Armed Services Committee, senators voted (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/nov/29/senate-defies-obama-veto-threat-terrorist-custody-/) 61-37 to preserve the language that gives the military custody of al Qaeda suspects, rather than turning them over to law enforcement officials.

President Obama has said he will veto the legislation, but only because he wants the power for himself, as opposed to the military.

“Any bill that challenges or constrains the president’s critical authorities to collect intelligence, incapacitate dangerous terrorists and protect the nation would prompt the president’s senior advisers to recommend a veto,” the White House said in a statement (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/nov/29/senate-defies-obama-veto-threat-terrorist-custody-/).



Who will protects us from these "officials" who are selling each of us little by little into public slavery?

[pcosmar]

Reality sucks.

:mad:

[trey4sports]

ughh...

[libertygrl]

IS THAT IT THEN??? Can this be challenged and brought to the supreme court as unconstitutional?? I can't believe this is really happening. We're in the final stages of losing our country forever. :mad::mad: NAMES! I WANT THE NAMES OF THESE TREASONOUS BASTARDS!

[coastie]

So I assume they will be kicking it off really soon now that this in place.

Still not fathoming how in a country this size and armed they are going to pull this off.

[Lucille]

Reason:

Senate Keeps Indefinite Detention Provision in Defense Bill (http://reason.com/blog/2011/11/29/senate-keeps-indefinite-detention-provis)

Check Out Sen. Rand Paul Railing Against the War on Terror's Excesses and the Potential Detainment of American Citizens (http://reason.com/blog/2011/11/29/check-out-sen-rand-paul-railing-against)

I guess it'll come in handy when the economic collapse hits, and the craven criminals on Capitol Hill broaden the definition of "terrorist."

See y'all in the camps!

[coastie]

Reason:

Senate Keeps Indefinite Detention Provision in Defense Bill (http://reason.com/blog/2011/11/29/senate-keeps-indefinite-detention-provis)

Check Out Sen. Rand Paul Railing Against the War on Terror's Excesses and the Potential Detainment of American Citizens (http://reason.com/blog/2011/11/29/check-out-sen-rand-paul-railing-against)

I guess it'll come in handy when the economic collapse hits, and the craven criminals on Capitol Hill broaden the definition of "terrorist."

See y'all in the camps!

Nah, I wont be in there with you-I'll be on the ridge getting ready to move in and get you guys out.:cool:

[bluesc]

Is Obama going to veto this? The Senate doesn't have the numbers to override (and Obama becomes the hero).

[Matthew5]

IS THAT IT THEN??? Can this be challenged and brought to the supreme court as unconstitutional?? I can't believe this is really happening. We're in the final stages of losing our country forever. :mad::mad: NAMES! I WANT THE NAMES OF THESE TREASONOUS BASTARDS!

Here are their names! https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=112&session=1&vote=00210#state

[libertyjam]

IS THAT IT THEN??? Can this be challenged and brought to the supreme court as unconstitutional?? I can't believe this is really happening. We're in the final stages of losing our country forever. :mad::mad: NAMES! I WANT THE NAMES OF THESE TREASONOUS BASTARDS!

https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=112&session=1&vote=00210

[Aratus]

this is horrendous

[Lucille]

libertygrl, there is no way the Statists on SCOTUS will strike this down.

I know you would, coastie!

"Live free or die: Death is not the worst of evils."
--General John Stark

[Lucille]

Is Obama going to veto this? The Senate doesn't have the numbers to override (and Obama becomes the hero).

He's only threatened it with a veto b/c it restricts HIS discretion to make the call on who is a POW and who is a criminal.

[JakeH]

Today, I am ashamed of our so-called leaders.

[TexAg09]

https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=112&session=1&vote=00210
I'm so confused.....

Roughly 2/3 said "Nay" and it states amendment rejected. Am I missing something?

Edit: Nvm, I saw this ---> Statement of Purpose: To revise the provisions relating to detainee matters.

[ZanZibar]

Mike Lee and Jim DeMint voted against the amendment that would've killed the illegal indefinite detention aspect of the bill: http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=112&session=1&vote=00210

[bluesc]

Mike Lee and Jim DeMint voted against the amendment that would've killed the illegal indefinite detention aspect of the bill: http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=112&session=1&vote=00210

F'in Mike Lee. Lost ANY potential future support he might have had from me.

[Chieppa1]

Now there is a list of 61 anti-American terrorists that should be detained indefinitely

[row333au]

Is Obama going to veto this? The Senate doesn't have the numbers to override (and Obama becomes the hero).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mPZlysCAm0&feature=share

[DamianTV]

Reality sucks.

:mad:

Reality is defined by the set of Laws under which it operates. Some Laws can be bent, others Broken. Its time we start changing our Laws to shape our Reality into a future that allows for our prosperity.

[thehungarian]

Nice to see where Mike Lee really stands.

[Kludge]

Saw this while visiting family in MI last year. Enjoy. (you'll have to use your imagination to visualize how the scene played out)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9CvYeCVB5Q

[libertygrl]

Now there is a list of 61 anti-American terrorists that should be detained indefinitely

I like that. Hmm.... Perhaps a Facebook page will surface with that title in our not too distant future... anyone???? ;) OCCUPY THE 61! lol.

[Matt Collins]

Rand corners McCain on "indefinite detention" of US citizens!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUHh1iqe43w&feature=player_embedded




Rand Paul vs John McCain: http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/195889-sens-paul-mccain-clash-over-terrorist-detainee-amendment-






Rand tries to kill this part of the bill:
http://tncampaignforliberty.org/wordpress/2011/11/senator-rand-paul-aims-to-kill-indefinte-detention-in-dod-bill/
(http://tncampaignforliberty.org/wordpress/2011/11/senator-rand-paul-aims-to-kill-indefinte-detention-in-dod-bill/)



Sen. Rand Paul Defends Constitutional Liberties

WASHINGTON, D.C. – Today in the U.S. Senate, Sen. Rand Paul took to the Senate floor as well as recorded a video message against the indefinite detention of United States citizens in defense of constitutional liberties.


CLICK HERE TO SEE SEN. PAUL’S ADDRESS REGARDING DETAINEES
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rghhz_t5POo)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rghhz_t5POo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rghhz_t5POo



TRANSCRIPT:


James Madison, father of the Constitution, warned, “The means of defense against foreign danger historically have become instruments of tyranny at home.”

Abraham Lincoln had similar thoughts, saying “America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter, and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.”

During war there has always been a struggle to preserve Constitutional liberties. During the Civil War the right of habeas corpus was suspended. Newspapers were closed down. Fortunately, these rights were restored after the war.

The discussion now to suspend certain rights to due process is especially worrisome given that we are engaged in a war that appears to have no end. Rights given up now cannot be expected to be returned. So, we do well to contemplate the diminishment of due process, knowing that the rights we lose now may never be restored.

My well-intentioned colleagues ignore these admonitions in defending provisions of the Defense bill pertaining to detaining suspected terrorists.

Their legislation would arm the military with the authority to detain indefinitely – without due process or trial – SUSPECTED al-Qaida sympathizers, including American citizens apprehended on American soil.

I want to repeat that. We are talking about people who are merely SUSPECTED of a crime. And we are talking about American citizens.

If these provisions pass, we could see American citizens being sent to Guantanamo Bay.

This should be alarming to everyone watching this proceeding today. Because it puts every single American citizen at risk.

There is one thing and one thing only protecting innocent Americans from being detained at will at the hands of a too-powerful state – our constitution, and the checks we put on government power. Should we err today and remove some of the most important checks on state power in the name of fighting terrorism, well, then the terrorists have won.

Detaining citizens without a court trial is not American. In fact, this alarming arbitrary power is reminiscent of Egypt’s “permanent” Emergency Law authorizing preventive indefinite detention, a law that provoked ordinary Egyptians to tear their country apart last spring and risk their lives to fight.

Recently, Justice Scalia affirmed this idea in his dissent in the Hamdi case, saying:

“Where the Government accuses a citizen of waging war against it, our constitutional tradition has been to prosecute him in federal court for treason or some other crime.”

He concluded: “The very core of liberty secured by our Anglo-Saxon system of separated powers has been freedom from indefinite imprisonment at the will of the Executive

Justice Scalia was, as he often does, following the wisdom of our founding fathers.

As Franklin wisely warned against, we should not attempt to trade liberty for security, if we do we may end up with neither. And really, what security does this indefinite detention of Americans give us?

The first and flawed premise, both here and in the badly misname patriot act, is that our pre-911 police powers were insufficient to combat international terrorism.

This is simply not borne out by the facts.

Congress long ago made it a crime to provide, or to conspire to provide, material assistance to al-Qaida or other listed foreign terrorist organizations. Material assistance includes virtually anything of value – including legal or political advice, education, books, newspapers, lodging or otherwise. The Supreme Court sustained the constitutionality of the sweeping prohibition.

And this is not simply about catching terrorists after the fact, as others may insinuate. The material assistance law is in fact forward-looking and preventive, not backward-looking and reactive.

Al-Qaida adherents may be detained, prosecuted and convicted for conspiring to violate the material assistance prohibition before any injury to an American. Jose Padilla, for instance, was convicted and sentenced to 17 years in prison for conspiring to provide material assistance to al-Qaida. The criminal law does not require dead bodies on the sidewalk before it strikes at international terrorism.

Indeed, conspiracy law and prosecutions in civilian courts have been routinely invoked after 9/11, to thwart embryonic international terrorism.

Michael Chertoff, then head of the Justice Department’s Criminal Division and later Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, testified shortly after 9/11 to the Senate Judiciary Committee. He underscored that, “the history of this government in prosecuting terrorists in domestic courts has been one of unmitigated success and one in which the judges have done a superb job of managing the courtroom and not compromising our concerns about security and our concerns about classified information.”

Moreover, there is no evidence that criminal justice procedures have frustrated intelligence collection about international terrorism. Suspected terrorists have repeatedly waived both the right to an attorney and the right to silence. Additionally, Miranda warnings are not required at all when the purpose of interrogation is public safety.

The authors of this bill errantly maintain that the bill would not enlarge the universe of detainees eligible for indefinite detention in military custody. This is simply not the case.

The current Authorization for Use of Military Force confines the universe to persons implicated in the 9/11 attacks or who harbored those who were.

The detainee provision would expand the universe to include any person said to be “part of” or “substantially” supportive of al-Qaida or Taliban.

These terms are dangerously vague. More than a decade after 9/11, the military has been unable to define the earmarks of membership in or affiliation to either organization.

Some say that to prevent another 9/11 attack we must fight terrorism with a war mentality and not treat potential attackers as criminals. For combatants captured on the battlefield, I tend to agree.

But 9/11 didn't succeed because we granted the terrorists due process. 9/11 attacks did not succeed because al-Qaida was so formidable, but because of human error. The Defense Department withheld intelligence from the FBI. No warrants were denied. The warrants weren't requested. The FBI failed to act on repeated pleas from its field agents, agents who were in possession of laptop with information that might have prevented 9/11.

These are not failures of laws. They are not failures of procedures. They are failures of imperfect men and women in bloated bureaucracies. No amount of liberty sacrificed on the altar of the state will ever change that.

A full accounting of our human failures by 9/11 Commission would have proven that enhanced cooperation between law enforcement and the intelligence community, not military action or vandalizing liberty at home, is the key to thwarting international terrorism.

We should not have to sacrifice our Liberty to be safe. We cannot allow the rules to change to fit the whims of those in power. The rules, the binding chains of our constitution were written so that it didn’t MATTER who was in power. In fact, they were written to protect us and our rights, from those who hold power without good intentions. We are not governed by saints or angels. Our constitution allows for that. This bill does not.

Finally, the detainee provisions of the defense authorization bill do another grave harm to freedom: they imply perpetual war for the first time in the history of the United States.

No benchmarks are established that would ever terminate the conflict with al-Qaida, Taliban, or other foreign terrorist organizations. In fact, this bill explicitly states that no part of this bill is to imply any restriction on the authorization to use force. No congressional review is allowed or imagined. No victory is defined. No peace is possible if victory is made impossible by definition.

To disavow the idea that the exclusive congressional power to declare war somehow allows the President to continue war forever at whim, I will also be offering an amendment this week to de-authorize the Iraq War.

Use of military force must begin in congress with its authorization. And it should end in congress with its termination. Congress should not be ignored or an afterthought in these matters, and must reclaim its constitutional duties.

The detainee provisions ask us to give up consist rights as an emergency or exigency but make no room for expiration. Perhaps the Emergency Law in Egypt began with good intentions in 1958 but somehow it came to be hated, to be despised with such vigor that protesters chose to burn themselves alive rather allow continuation of indefinite detention.

Today, someone must stand up for the rights of the American people to be free. We must stand up to tyranny disguised as security. I urge my colleagues to reject the language on detainees in this bill, and to support amendments to strip these provisions from the defense bill.

Roll Call vote:
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=112&session=1&vote=00210






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKaTxjxnYfE&feature=uploademail

[Brown Sapper]

Fuck that any official gives me and my troops orders to detain American citizens will find themselves in handcuffs.:mad:

[Brick-in-the-Wall]

The sad thing is most Americans won't hear about this and our "leaders" will keep doing more and more of this until finally everybody will wake up one day and ask, "What happened here?"

[echebota]

this is VERY VERY VERY ugly. Look at this list. All of these poeple including you and me can be put into Cuba concentration camp now without trial or even charges. People are crazy. I'm thinking more and more of leaving this country before it's too late...

In Modern America, Questioning War Is Considered Terrorism
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/11/in-modern-america-liking-peace-is-considered-terrorism.html

Fusion Center documents label OKC Bombing investigators as terrorists
http://www.reddirtreport.com/Story.aspx/20516

Dad Labeled a Terrorist for Taking Photos of Own Kid in a Mall
http://thestir.cafemom.com/in_the_news/127178/dad_labeled_a_terrorist_for

GOP, Tea Party Labeled as 'Terrorists'
http://www.christianpost.com/news/biden-backpedals-from-tea-party-terrorists-comment-53221/

Liberty Dollar Minter Convicted for ‘Domestic terrorism’
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/united-states/liberty-dollar-minter-convicted-for-domestic-terrorism-53358.html

Congressman wants WikiLeaks listed as terrorist group
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-20023941-38.html

Labeled "Terrorist," Iranian-American Businessman Wins Lawsuit for Defamation
http://news.yahoo.com/owner-car-dealership-labeled-taliban-toyota-wins-millions-004302989.html

Teenager labeled terrorist by use of Patriot Act and stripped of due process
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNGZxjtsYDs

Secret State Police Report: Ron Paul, Bob Barr, Chuck Baldwin, Libertarians are Terrorists
http://www.infowars.com/secret-state-police-report-ron-paul-bob-barr-chuck-baldwin-libertarians-are-terrorists/

10 Easy Ways to Be Labeled a “Terrorist” by the Government
http://planetsave.com/2009/03/11/10-easy-ways-to-be-labeled-a-terrorist-by-the-government/

FBI Flyer Labels Defenders of Constitution Terrorists
http://www.constitution.org/abus/terror/constitutional_terrorists.htm

[Philhelm]

More cops, more stops.
See something, say something.
New definitions of "terrorism."
Indefinite detention of U.S. citizens.
Militarization of police.
Ever increasing legislation and regulations to limit freedom of action.
Torture is legal.
Impending economic decline.
Multiple wars.

Not a good recipe we have on our hands.

[libertyjam]

The sad thing is most Americans won't hear about this and our "leaders" will keep doing more and more of this until finally everybody will wake up one day and ask, "What happened here?"

Senate Votes? Who cares? We got $60 million dollar high school stadiums to build!

F'n Bread and Circuses I tell ya.

[Cap]

More cops, more stops.
See something, say something.
New definitions of "terrorism."
Indefinite detention of U.S. citizens.
Militarization of police.
Ever increasing legislation and regulations to limit freedom of action.
Torture is legal.
Impending economic decline.
Multiple wars.

Not a good recipe we have on our hands.Would you mind if I quoted you?

[Philhelm]

Would you mind if I quoted you?

Of course not.

[thehungarian]

Just read this from Mike Lee's site:

http://lee.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/press-releases?ID=953f3f14-aec6-42fe-8f62-ab5bcf39d16b


WASHINGTON – Today, Senator Mike Lee announced his support for legislation that would prevent any American citizen from being held indefinitely by the military without trial. The provision is an amendment to the National Defense Authorization Act, which is currently being considered by the U.S. Senate.

“Congress should make absolutely clear that the U.S. government does not have authority to detain an American citizen indefinitely without trial and proper constitutional process,” said Senator Lee, a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee. “This amendment ensures the proper balance between individual liberty and national security, and maintains that we are both a free and a secure nation.”

Wut

[ZanZibar]

McCain and Lindsey Graham....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7tavj7Jhko
Courtesy of Mike Church radio show

[Anti Federalist]

IS THAT IT THEN??? Can this be challenged and brought to the supreme court as unconstitutional?? I can't believe this is really happening. We're in the final stages of losing our country forever. :mad::mad: NAMES! I WANT THE NAMES OF THESE TREASONOUS BASTARDS!

Umm, pretty much all of them.

I can count the exceptions on the fingers of both hands.

[Anti Federalist]

The sad thing is most Americans won't hear about this and our "leaders" will keep doing more and more of this until finally everybody will wake up one day and ask, "What happened here?"

No they won't.

I truly believe they won't wake up until the last nanosecond as the government bullet shatters their brain pan.

[Anti Federalist]

More cops, more stops.
See something, say something.
New definitions of "terrorism."
Indefinite detention of U.S. citizens.
Militarization of police.
Ever increasing legislation and regulations to limit freedom of action.
Torture is legal.
Impending economic decline.
Multiple wars.

Not a good recipe we have on our hands.

And all you have to do to find a "terrorist"?

Look in the mirror.