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View Full Version : question on "Restore American Now" plan - no layoffs?




Thrashertm
11-29-2011, 02:34 PM
I was discussing this plan with a friend and we were struggling with the concept of closing the five agencies and saving money without having layoffs. How would the savings occur if everyone is just shifted from a defunct dept. to another one? If the people formerly with the Dept. of HUD are no longer in HUD, are they still performing the same job under a new agency?

"SPENDING:

Cuts $1 trillion in spending during the first year of Ron Paulís presidency, eliminating five cabinet departments (Energy, HUD, Commerce, Interior, and Education), abolishing the Transportation Security Administration and returning responsibility for security to private property owners, abolishing corporate subsidies, stopping foreign aid, ending foreign wars, and returning most other spending to 2006 levels."


http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/ron-paul-plan-to-restore-america/

Thanks

Zippyjuan
11-29-2011, 03:12 PM
If people are not laid off but transfered to another department, you aren't really saving much if any money. Labor costs is where the money goes.

Thanks for the link to the budget proposal. I see that both discressionary and mandatory spending rise over the three years and that government revenues (taxes) increase by 25% (40% higher than 2010 levels).

Just some comparisons with the 2010 budget http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_United_States_federal_budget

Discressionary spending:
2010: $1.378 trillion
Ron's proposed discressionary spending:
2013: $1.084 trillion
2014: $1.089 trillion
2015: $1.093 trillion
2016: $1.099 trilllion

Mandatory spending:
2010: $2.137 trillion

2013: $1.52 trillion
2014: $1.59 trillion
2015: $1.65 trillion
2016: $1.76 trillion

Revenues (tax collections):
2010: $2.2 trillion

2013: $2.5 trillion
2014: $2.7 trillion
2015: $2.9 trillon
2016: $3.1 trillion

I do note that the budget does not list interest on the debt anywhere- it should be included under Mandatory Spending. In 2010 that was $164 billion so that needs to be added in (and will be higher in later years). We should probably be adding something like $200 billion to each year for that. Then he is double counting "offsetting receipts" (which would also be counted in the Revenue portion) as a negative amount under "mandatory spending". That runs from $213 billion to $247 billion during the proposed budget period. Add that back in and we are looking at a total of over $400 billion more a year for "mandatory spending".

seapilot
11-29-2011, 03:55 PM
There has to be mass layoffs to save the other federal workers jobs. The outcomes that are going to happen are 2 likely scenarios:

1. RP is elected Prez and lays off thousands of federal employees. The other fed employees get to keep their jobs and pensions and keep getting a pay check that is worth something. Investors are on the fence about investing in USA until its financial ship holes are plugged and the water bailed out. Cutting spending and balancing the budget will give stability that investors are looking for.


2. A massive budget default, the government shuts down where all federal employee wages are frozen and are promised payment without receiving any pay. How long will they choose or able to work for free? Only the most important federal officials will continue to get paid. Already the government has shut down, threatening Park employees , FAA contractors and even military.

Its come down to basically cut the leg off to save the body, there is no easy way out of this financial mess.

Thrashertm
11-29-2011, 04:00 PM
There has to be mass layoffs to save the other federal workers jobs. The outcomes that are going to happen are 2 likely scenarios:

1. RP is elected Prez and lays off thousands of federal employees. The other fed employees get to keep their jobs and pensions and keep getting a pay check that is worth something. Investors are on the fence about investing in USA until its financial ship holes are plugged and the water bailed out. Cutting spending and balancing the budget will give stability that investors are looking for.


2. A massive budget default, the government shuts down where all federal employee wages are frozen and are promised payment without receiving any pay. How long will they choose or able to work for free? Only the most important federal officials will continue to get paid. Already the government has shut down, threatening Park employees , FAA contractors and even military.

Its come down to basically cut the leg off to save the body, there is no easy way out of this financial mess.

Believe me, I'm in favor of closing 90% of the Federal government Bear Stearns style - just let them clear out there desks and GTFO. However, Ron Paul has said that the layoffs would occur through attrition - http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10/17/paul-proposes-cutting-1-trillion-in-first-year/ I'm just trying to understand the mechanics of moving agencies into other departments and how the savings would be achieved.

Elwar
11-29-2011, 04:07 PM
It will happen through attrition. Gary Johnson cut over 1,000 workers in New Mexico through attrition.

There are plenty of government jobs out there. They will just now be filled by people from other agencies. Most likely they will be offered a position somewhere else, they will refuse and they will be given a severance package.

I was part of an office that was shut down. They had someone come in and offer us all jobs in other locations. Some moved, some opted to be laid off. I chose getting laid off as opposed to moving to DC.

seapilot
11-29-2011, 04:10 PM
Believe me, I'm in favor of closing 90% of the Federal government Bear Stearns style - just let them clear out there desks and GTFO. However, Ron Paul has said that the layoffs would occur through attrition - http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10/17/paul-proposes-cutting-1-trillion-in-first-year/ I'm just trying to understand the mechanics of moving agencies into other departments and how the savings would be achieved.

First they would freeze hiring any new people for the dept. They then encourage early retirement for people within 10 years of collecting a pension. Instant downsizing. Cut budgets for those departments so they can not afford to spend more than they have to. They then cut costs themselves for everything but salaries and to keep the lights on. Eventually the dept becomes obsolete and they dismantle what remains into other similar agencies.

Thrashertm
11-29-2011, 04:24 PM
First they would freeze hiring any new people for the dept. They then encourage early retirement for people within 10 years of collecting a pension. Instant downsizing. Cut budgets for those departments so they can not afford to spend more than they have to. They then cut costs themselves for everything but salaries and to keep the lights on. Eventually the dept becomes obsolete and they dismantle what remains into other similar agencies.

Sounds good to me.

Keith and stuff
11-29-2011, 04:47 PM
There has to be mass layoffs to save the other federal workers jobs.

I agree. Romney isn't even calling for closing any departments but even he claims to be calling for laying off 10% of the federal workforce.