Police officers knock out grandfather accused of shoplifting [Archive]

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Kregisen

11-25-2011, 04:52 PM

At a local walmart maybe an hour or so away from me...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nE03xl9cUns

No video of what actually occurred, so obviously it's possible the man was fighting back, but judging by all the witnesses there saying "why the hell would you throw him down like that", it seems to be another case of egotistic cops going way over the line.

Anyway, just thought I'd share and hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving.

phill4paul

11-25-2011, 04:55 PM

"Someone call 9/11!" WTF?

PreDeadMan

11-25-2011, 05:30 PM

Disgusting just another example of of the countless times of police brutality ok so the guy did something wrong such as shop lifting so the cops slam the guy's face to the ground? surely if the guy poses no threat he can be peacefully detained without any violence used against him eh? they must teach cops in the academy to use violence in all situations never try to peacefully talk people out of situations....

PierzStyx

11-25-2011, 05:40 PM

MelissaWV

11-25-2011, 05:43 PM

When this was just talked about on the national news, it was characterized as security guards bodyslamming a man accused of shoplifting... who witnesses say was only trying to protect his grandson.

Now, I don't know why someone would have their grandkid with them in that mess, but all that aside it doesn't seem like you could make a case for shoplifting where that guy was smacked down. When I worked at Publix you had to get all the way outside before you could be stopped for it as a crime.

Edit:

I would also add that rolling this guy onto his back was a MAJOR mistake, and I'm not sure why on earth they did it. You can see him coughing/seizing and I have to imagine at least part of that is blood going down into his lungs/stomach. Shoving paper towels onto his face does not fix that, but instead makes it much worse.

Anti Federalist

11-25-2011, 06:10 PM

iGGz

11-25-2011, 06:12 PM

This is from the video description

Man put two games under his shirt because his grandson got knocked down and hurt in the rush and he needed his hands to help his grandson. A cop saw and immediately arrested him for shoplifting. The man was cooperating while the cop was putting on the handcuffs. The cop out of no where tripped the man and bashed his head nose first into the ground knocking him out and there is blood everywhere. The cop did not know how to care for the man so someone that was there shopping had to help get blood out the mans airways.

iGGz

11-25-2011, 06:13 PM

Look at this insanity, and then consider what will happen when real economic hardship hits.

When there is no food left at the supermarkets.

When the water stops running.

When the lights go off.

These people will go bug shit, bat shit, stark raving, mad.

Check this shit out!

http://www.twitvid.com/QM7T7

Tina

11-25-2011, 06:21 PM

Our society is so screwed. In what way is this okay? How in the hell do the cops justify this type of behavior. I'm really afraid of what's happening to our country.

MelissaWV

11-25-2011, 06:41 PM

This is from the video description

That sounds about right.

What I am still puzzled by, is that down here (Florida) you don't get arrested for shoplifting until you've left the store. That is, if you have something under your shirt, but you then go to the checkout and pay, you haven't shoplifted. This guy hadn't left yet!

They had to get the blood out of his airway because the cops rolled him onto his back while he was bleeding copiously from the nose (and likely his mouth) and was only semi-conscious at best.

iGGz

11-25-2011, 07:19 PM

They have revised statutes in AZ.
http://law.justia.com/codes/arizona/2005/title13/01805.html
(http://law.justia.com/codes/arizona/2005/title13/01805.html)
http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/newman jerald.jpg

Here are a couple news articles:
http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/business/black-friday-brawl-at-buckeye-walmart-11252011
(http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/business/black-friday-brawl-at-buckeye-walmart-11252011)http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2011/11/buckeye_grandpa_was_shopliftin.php
(http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2011/11/buckeye_grandpa_was_shopliftin.php)

54-year-old Jerald Newman was arrested after he was treated at a local hospital. He faces charges of resisting arrest and shoplifting.

I can't believe they still arrested him. Cops suck.

qh4dotcom

11-25-2011, 08:26 PM

I did sign waving today and a cop approached me....he said it might be too early to be doing campaigning.

ShaneEnochs

11-25-2011, 08:28 PM

heavenlyboy34

11-25-2011, 08:29 PM

Look at this insanity, and then consider what will happen when real economic hardship hits.

When there is no food left at the supermarkets.

When the water stops running.

When the lights go off.

These people will go bug shit, bat shit, stark raving, mad.
Yup, that. ^^ That's why I stockpile food and necessities as best I can.

ShaneEnochs

11-25-2011, 08:30 PM

I did sign waving today and a cop approached me....he said it might be too early to be doing campaigning.

What happened afterward?

acptulsa

11-25-2011, 08:32 PM

I can't believe they still arrested him. Cops suck.

That's a little process they call covering their asses. If they don't charge him with resisting arrest, then it's nothing but a clear case of police brutality. Worse--it's simple assault and battery, but committed by the very person who ostensibly protects us from assault and battery.

qh4dotcom

11-25-2011, 08:32 PM

phill4paul

11-25-2011, 08:33 PM

They have revised statutes in AZ.
http://law.justia.com/codes/arizona/2005/title13/01805.html
(http://law.justia.com/codes/arizona/2005/title13/01805.html)
http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/newman jerald.jpg

Here are a couple news articles:
http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/business/black-friday-brawl-at-buckeye-walmart-11252011
(http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/business/black-friday-brawl-at-buckeye-walmart-11252011)http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2011/11/buckeye_grandpa_was_shopliftin.php
(http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2011/11/buckeye_grandpa_was_shopliftin.php)

I can't believe they still arrested him. Cops suck.

They said the Walmart's surveillance cameras did not capture the beginning of the fight.

Nothing to see here. No video evidence. An exalted law officer's word with many years serving and protecting against a mundane.

JK/SEA

11-25-2011, 08:34 PM

''oh, and by the way, Happy Thanksgiving Grampa...here's the clean-up bill''

qh4dotcom

11-25-2011, 09:20 PM

What happened afterward?

Nothing....he stayed close to me in the corner of the intersection until I left....another cop was standing at another corner of the intersection. He also said I picked a good day to do campaigning as there was a lot of traffic.

ShaneEnochs

11-25-2011, 09:22 PM

Nothing....he stayed close to me in the corner of the intersection until I left....another cop was standing at another corner of the intersection. He also said I picked a good day to do campaigning as there was a lot of traffic.

Oh. So it was just friendly advice. I thought you meant he was asking you to stop/leave.

Verrater

11-25-2011, 09:45 PM

You know it's bad when the top rated comment is from a guy in Hong Kong saying the police in America are fucked up.

hillbilly123069

11-26-2011, 11:37 AM

I'm not willing to denounce the cops here without evidence. For all I know he did try and resist arrest and got punched in the nose while doing it and teh people talking didn't actually SEE it happen, but just came upon it after the fact.
I only read through the 1st page of posts to realize how many versions of this story are actually being told. CNN said a patron seen him do it and informed a nearby cop. I know of NO stores/laws anywhere stating you are shoplifting until you walk past the registers, more commonly is out of the building.
What is NOT in dispute here is the fact the man was 'already' in cuffs being escorted out of the building. Along comes officer bad@$$, sweeps his feet out from under him and almost gets the rest of his coworkers involved in an old fashioned beatdown. Everyone was pissed.

http://rt.com/usa/news/black-friday-newman-police-269/

ShaneEnochs

11-26-2011, 11:51 AM

I only read through the 1st page of posts to realize how many versions of this story are actually being told. CNN said a patron seen him do it and informed a nearby cop. I know of NO stores/laws anywhere stating you are shoplifting until you walk past the registers, more commonly is out of the building.
What is NOT in dispute here is the fact the man was 'already' in cuffs being escorted out of the building. Along comes officer bad@$$, sweeps his feet out from under him and almost gets the rest of his coworkers involved in an old fashioned beatdown. Everyone was pissed.

http://rt.com/usa/news/black-friday-newman-police-269/

I don't know exactly what the law is, but I was a manager of a shoe store for a short while, and the guy who trained me told me that if I saw them put their old shoes in a shoe box and set the shoe box back on the shelf, it was as good as stealing. I did, however, wait until they left the store to go after them just in case.

Occam's Banana

11-26-2011, 12:45 PM

I'm not willing to denounce the cops here without evidence. For all I know he did try and resist arrest and got punched in the nose while doing it and teh people talking didn't actually SEE it happen, but just came upon it after the fact.
I understand & even sympathize with your point of view on this - "innocent until proven guilty," after all - but I am pretty much past the end of my tether when it comes to granting the benefit of the doubt to law enforcement agents & agencies.

With all the unprovoked pepper-sprayings, unjustifiable shootings of man & beast, murderous beat-downs, violent & deadly para-military "storm trooper" raids out of any proportion to alleged infractions, etc. etc. ad nauseum - and all of it excused by reciting "standard operating procedure" or "concern for officer safety" - it has become crystal clear that we do indeed live in a police state.

Add to this nasty brew the elements of law enforcement corruption & prosecutorial misconduct - with the judicial system rubber-stamping it all (when it isn't actively participating in it) - and we've arrived at a point where we can no longer afford to give the "system" or its enforcers any benefit of the doubt.

CaptainAmerica

11-26-2011, 12:50 PM

the grandfather was hiding the game from attackers who assaulted his 10 year old grandson over a video game. Police responded by sneaking up on the grandfather and tackling him from behind knocking his face into the ground. He did not leave the store (he did not shop lift). Police protecting corporate assets once again with extreme brutality.

Kregisen

11-26-2011, 04:07 PM

That sounds about right.

What I am still puzzled by, is that down here (Florida) you don't get arrested for shoplifting until you've left the store. That is, if you have something under your shirt, but you then go to the checkout and pay, you haven't shoplifted. This guy hadn't left yet!

They had to get the blood out of his airway because the cops rolled him onto his back while he was bleeding copiously from the nose (and likely his mouth) and was only semi-conscious at best.

Arizona law is different...concealment is enough.

MelissaWV

11-26-2011, 05:19 PM

Arizona law is different...concealment is enough.

That's moronic, but good to know. I have put gloves in my pocket momentarily while trying something else on or picking something else up. I will do just about anything to avoid using a cart. My ex-boyfriend was blind so tended to put everything into his backpack, then take it out at the register, and have them pack it back in. It was easier than dealing with a cart/basket.

Good to know we could have had our faces broken for it.

GuerrillaXXI

11-26-2011, 10:20 PM

I understand & even sympathize with your point of view on this - "innocent until proven guilty," after all - but I am pretty much past the end of my tether when it comes to granting the benefit of the doubt to law enforcement agents & agencies.

With all the unprovoked pepper-sprayings, unjustifiable shootings of man & beast, murderous beat-downs, violent & deadly para-military "storm trooper" raids out of any proportion to alleged infractions, etc. etc. ad nauseum - and all of it excused by reciting "standard operating procedure" or "concern for officer safety" - it has become crystal clear that we do indeed live in a police state.

Add to this nasty brew the elements of law enforcement corruption & prosecutorial misconduct - with the judicial system rubber-stamping it all (when it isn't actively participating in it) - and we've arrived at a point where we can no longer afford to give the "system" or its enforcers any benefit of the doubt.Oh, I'm long past the point of giving the police the benefit of the doubt. Even the ones who aren't violent criminals, perjurers, and sadists will almost invariably cover up for their "brother officers" who are. As far as I'm concerned, every one of them is a willing member of a state-sponsored criminal organization, an enemy of freedom, and a jackbooted piece of pigshit until individually proven otherwise.

heavenlyboy34

11-26-2011, 10:28 PM

Arizona law is different...concealment is enough.
Huh. I've lived in AZ for 30 years and have never heard about that law. :eek:

Kregisen

12-06-2011, 12:27 AM

Huh. I've lived in AZ for 30 years and have never heard about that law. :eek:

Yeah I thought you had to physically walk out of the store in AZ law too but someone on a site posted the exact statute when this occurred...I can try to find it.

Kregisen

12-06-2011, 12:32 AM

http://www.azleg.state.az.us/search/oop/qfullhit.asp?CiWebHitsFile=/ars/13/01805.htm&CiRestriction=shoplifting

A. A person commits shoplifting if, while in an establishment in which merchandise is displayed for sale, the person knowingly obtains such goods of another with the intent to deprive that person of such goods by:

1. Removing any of the goods from the immediate display or from any other place within the establishment without paying the purchase price; or

2. Charging the purchase price of the goods to a fictitious person or any person without that person's authority; or

3. Paying less than the purchase price of the goods by some trick or artifice such as altering, removing, substituting or otherwise disfiguring any label, price tag or marking; or

4. Transferring the goods from one container to another; or

5. Concealment.

B. Any person who knowingly conceals upon himself or another person unpurchased merchandise of any mercantile establishment while within the mercantile establishment is presumed to have the necessary culpable mental state pursuant to subsection A of this section.

C. A merchant, or a merchant's agent or employee, with reasonable cause, may detain on the premises in a reasonable manner and for a reasonable time any person who is suspected of shoplifting as prescribed in subsection A of this section for questioning or summoning a law enforcement officer.

D. Reasonable cause is a defense to a civil or criminal action against a peace officer, a merchant or an agent or employee of the merchant for false arrest, false or unlawful imprisonment or wrongful detention.

E. If a minor engages in conduct that violates subsection A of this section notwithstanding the fact that the minor may not be held responsible because of the person's minority, any merchant injured by the shoplifting of the minor may bring a civil action against the parent or legal guardian of the minor under either section 12-661 or 12-692.

F. Any merchant who is injured by the shoplifting of an adult or emancipated minor in violation of subsection A of this section may bring a civil action against the adult or emancipated minor pursuant to section 12-691.

G. Shoplifting property with a value of two thousand dollars or more or shoplifting property during any continuing criminal episode regardless of the value of the goods is a class 5 felony. Shoplifting property with a value of one thousand dollars or more but less than two thousand dollars is a class 6 felony. Shoplifting property valued at less than one thousand dollars is a class 1 misdemeanor, unless the property is a firearm in which case the shoplifting is a class 6 felony. For the purposes of this subsection, "continuing criminal episode" means theft committed from at least three separate retail establishments within a period of three consecutive days.

H. In imposing sentence on a person who is convicted of violating this section, the court may require any person to perform public services designated by the court in addition to or in lieu of any fine that the court might impose.

I. A person who commits shoplifting and who has previously committed or been convicted within the past five years of two or more offenses involving burglary, shoplifting, robbery or theft or who in the course of shoplifting entered the mercantile establishment with an artifice, instrument, container, device or other article that was intended to facilitate shoplifting is guilty of a class 4 felony.

There has to be intent, so if you're putting something in your pocket for odd reason while you're holding something else you should be fine, but obviously if someone is caught concealing something by a camera/security guard and walking through the store, they're pretty much committing shoplifting according to this statute.