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View Full Version : Will the Nov. 5 naysayers be man enough to admit their error?




max
11-06-2007, 08:31 PM
Ron Paul and the media are having good fun with this "V" for Vendetta theme that had your panties all up...

BOLDNESS works...and now we have respect.

V rentals will probably skyrocket and our ranks will swell with people seeing the film for the first time...

You naysayers tried so hard to kill Trevor's baby. You should come forward and admit your folly....we'll forgive you....as long as you dont try to discourage ANY idea...

kylejack
11-06-2007, 08:32 PM
No, they will not. They were curiously absent through our monstrous success.

max
11-06-2007, 08:34 PM
No, they will not. They were curiously absent through our monstrous success.

I cant stomach pessimists!

We're better off without them. Let them just donate and vote...but stay the hell out of our way.

We are revolutionaries and we REFUSE to live in fear of the Media...

It's time the media respects us and it's actually happening. The fact that we did this with the V theme sent a scary message to the elite class...believe me!!!

gornandez@yahoo.com
11-06-2007, 08:34 PM
i was a little worried it wouldnt be well-received, but HOTT DAMN!! this is.... well massive... there's nothing to compare it to. it was absolutely necessary, and theres been just about nil negative spin. we are getting loads pf primo coverage, this is nuts

NinjaPirate
11-06-2007, 08:34 PM
V rentals will probably skyrocket and our ranks will swell with people seeing the film for the first time...

LOL, I was thinking about this earlier! I wouldn't be surprised to see if the producers of the movie came out with a news article that said V for Vendetta movie rental/purchases have gone up due to the money bomb. :D

NewEnd
11-06-2007, 08:35 PM
I created a list of them, in case next time they want to try and piss on someone's parade.

mkrfctr
11-06-2007, 08:35 PM
...as long as you dont try to discourage ANY idea...

Oh come on, that FreedomRocksTM thing was really shitty, and deserved death by stoning.

qsecofr
11-06-2007, 08:37 PM
No need to be hostile about being wrong, I loved the idea but would never ask someone to forever give up there negative opinion even if it turns out to be wrong.

Most were wrong not because they didn't want Ron to succeed but because they were worried it may not help him succeed. I think it would be fare to say EVERYBODY learned something from this, it's now starting to feel really real and not just hopefully real. Not the time to eat our own, there will be plenty of time for that latter... after we've won :D:D

max
11-06-2007, 08:37 PM
Oh come on, that FreedomRocksTM thing was really shitty, and deserved death by stoning.

LOL...even so...even a dumb idea will attract SOME people...

We're always worrying needlessly about who we "turn off"....we should only focus on those we can turn on....and sometimes...even goofy shit works with certain folks...

NewEnd
11-06-2007, 08:39 PM
Oh come on, that FreedomRocksTM thing was really shitty, and deserved death by stoning.

here is the thing.

If somebody wanted to have a hair band butt rock concert for Paul, there would be a bunch of jerks saying "no way, that's not Paul's image"

But here would also be 10,000 80's era Americans interested.

insert quilting show, NASCAR, or any other thing some peopel find offensive or stupid, there are many more Americans who find it intoxicating and exhilerating.

really, some people really need ot ask themselves why they look down upon anyone, for anything they do with their free time.

nayjevin
11-06-2007, 08:40 PM
I feel that this result would have been far more powerful on veterans day - because of the way the media handles it - and just as feasible. it could have been better.

Case in point:

'Ron Paul raises $4.3m in a day on the back of notorious terrorist'

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle2821161.ece

leglock
11-06-2007, 08:40 PM
I wasn't exactly the biggiest fan of the theme of the website before it was changed, but I'm glad that Ron Paul was able to explain why his supporters choose the date and that they aren't crazy people that want to blow up Congress.

Donated 125 bucks.

Adamsa
11-06-2007, 08:41 PM
Who cares who said what, we're here now. Lets push on!

foofighter20x
11-06-2007, 08:41 PM
Like I said,give it til weeks end. At that point, if there's been no blowback, I'll enjoy my crow with a big smile.

kylejack
11-06-2007, 08:41 PM
I feel that this result would have been far more powerful on veterans day - because of the way the media handles it - and just as feasible. it could have been better.

Would not have raised as much money because pop culture is more powerful, and would have been reported as political opportunism at the expense of veterans.

NOTHING COULD HAVE BEEN BETTER than yesterday and today! NOTHING!

NewEnd
11-06-2007, 08:42 PM
Like I said,give it til weeks end. At that point, if there's been no blowback, I'll enjoy my crow with a big smile.

still cautiously pessimistic, I see... ;)

NewEnd
11-06-2007, 08:42 PM
Would not have raised as much money because pop culture is more powerful, and would have been reported as political opportunism at the expense of veterans.

NOTHING COULD HAVE BEEN BETTER than yesterday and today! NOTHING!

switiching the date would have been like trying to turn a locomotive, it wasn't realistic, and would have just derailed everything.

Richandler
11-06-2007, 08:43 PM
I know Ron Paulers can do a lot. I just don't think the media are worth a shit to impress. The headlines helped some it seems though

Duckman
11-06-2007, 08:44 PM
I donated $200 when the early news articles weren't full of smears.

Rather than gloat over how you guys supposedly knew better, you should instead be thankful that we were very lucky that Ron Paul only had to deal with being asked about violent V imagery once today. It could easily have been the main topic on every channel, which is the fear that I and alot of other supporters had.

Yesterday was indeed Ron Paul's best day. But it could have been the end of the campaign if the MSM had gone for the jugular on the whole Guy Fawkes/V/terrorism thing.

max
11-06-2007, 08:44 PM
Trust me...

The V theme sent a clear message to the ruling class....they are on the defensive for the first time...

THEY ARE AFRAID...

just look at how respectful the normally rude sam Donaldson was to our boy...

The V theme sent a message that WE ARE PISSED OFF...Boston Tea Party message will be twice as loud!.

foofighter20x
11-06-2007, 08:45 PM
still cautiously pessimistic, I see... ;)

Like I said, the opposition needs time to come up with a way to spin it.

Not to mention the fact it got laughed at before hand. We practically gave them that...

partypooper
11-06-2007, 08:45 PM
i thought that the media was going to use fawkes and v much more against the campaign than has actually been the case. hope to remain very much in error :).

Keith
11-06-2007, 08:46 PM
The November 11 crowd still has a chance to beat the November 5 crowd. Let's set how much is raised on November 11. That will settle it.

(The November 11 people could sure use some help from the November 5 people also in showing that November 11 rules.)

Who wants to start a November 17 faction?

leglock
11-06-2007, 08:46 PM
They aren't"afraid", they think we're crazy...

NewEnd
11-06-2007, 08:46 PM
I donated $200 when the early news articles weren't full of smears.

Rather than gloat over how you guys supposedly knew better, you should instead be thankful that we were very lucky that Ron Paul only had to deal with being asked about violent V imagery once today. It could easily have been the main topic on every channel, which is the fear that I and alot of other supporters had.

Yesterday was indeed Ron Paul's best day. But it could have been the end of the campaign if the MSM had gone for the jugular on the whole Guy Fawkes/V/terrorism thing.

He was asked quite a few times, the media tried, they did, and they failed. They knew nobody realy cared about early 17th century British history, they were watchign to see how a no name just pulled in record amounts of cash.

And while I am at it, there is a huge difference between constructive criticism, and outright slamming. One comes out with a better product, and one comes out with hurt feelings.

nayjevin
11-06-2007, 08:46 PM
Would not have raised as much money because pop culture is more powerful, and would have been reported as political opportunism at the expense of veterans.

NOTHING COULD HAVE BEEN BETTER than yesterday and today! NOTHING!

a good point, some donations would not have been solicited without V for vendetta - we probably would just disagree on how much difference that made.

max
11-06-2007, 08:46 PM
I donated $200 when the early news articles weren't full of smears.

Rather than gloat over how you guys supposedly knew better, you should instead be thankful that we were very lucky that Ron Paul only had to deal with being asked about violent V imagery once today. It could easily have been the main topic on every channel, which is the fear that I and alot of other supporters had.

.

It's not about gloating!

It's about shutting up the cancerous pessimists and naysayers who infect our ranks.....they may mean well...but their cautiousness can kill us...

AUDACITY is what wins wars

Duckman
11-06-2007, 08:47 PM
The V theme sent a clear message to the ruling class....they are on the defensive for the first time...

THEY ARE AFRAID...

I think the 'V' theme did nothing for the media. The "respect" we may be getting is caused by nothing but the donation figures alone. They are not afraid of us because of 'V'. That is juvenile thinking in my opinion. The 'V' theme energized our supporter base, but at unnecessary risk IMO. Luckily, we seem to be in the clear.

max
11-06-2007, 08:47 PM
They aren't"afraid", they think we're crazy...

True...but crazy people are scary...LOL

constitutional
11-06-2007, 08:47 PM
I was skeptical about this november 5th too but please stop posting threads like this, lets move on ffs.

foofighter20x
11-06-2007, 08:48 PM
He was asked quite a few times, the media tried, they did, and they failed. They knew nobody realy cared about early 17th century British history, they were watchign to see how a no name just pulled in record amounts of cash.

And while I am at it, there is a huge difference between constructive criticism, and outright slamming. One comes out with a better product, and one comes out with hurt feelings.

Then it'd please me if you would admit that I never slammed this idea. I just said it probably wasn't the best way to go about it, and would have negative consequences.

NewEnd
11-06-2007, 08:50 PM
Then it'd please me if you would admit that I never slammed this idea. I just said it probably wasn't the best way to go about it, and would have negative consequences.

I dont remember you, actually. There are quite a few names I did remember, particularly for their nastiness and hostility towards their comrades.

BTW, I too said I was against the "V is for vendetta" theme many times.

DJ RP
11-06-2007, 08:53 PM
Oh come on, that FreedomRocksTM thing was really shitty, and deserved death by stoning.

Actually it was a good creative idea. If you don't like the idea spend your time on an idea you do like but the guy put lots of work into that and I think it was cool.

qsecofr
11-06-2007, 08:54 PM
It's not about gloating!

It's about shutting up the cancerous pessimists and naysayers who infect our ranks.....they may mean well...but their cautiousness can kill us...

AUDACITY is what wins wars

The V was perfect in hindsight. What can they say about us?!?!? We're crazy?!?! Hahah that one has been the staple for months now.

I'm going to kick in 100 for nov 11 as well. If we top 1mil that will say a lot and it can't be spun into an opportunistic donation drive as easily because of nov5.

The tea party could be insane, perhaps breaking even Hilary's records.

If we do well in nov 11th, with the rest on the candidates donations going down, we can cut them off at the source by showing them how a "2nd" tier does it.

MikeStanart
11-06-2007, 08:55 PM
I think different ideas are fine. Different ideas / criticisms help us see the possible negative / positive outcomes from any given situation.

Lets not implode here; I think it's good that we knew what we were getting into.

How can we possibly attack eachother after a day like yesterday!!??


KEEP ON THE GOOD FIGHT MEN!

BLS
11-06-2007, 08:55 PM
I didn't read this whole thread, but I think it's childish to nitpick at other Ron Paul supporters because the idea worked out better than they thought it would.

Why stir the pot? Aren't we all on the same team??

NewEnd
11-06-2007, 08:58 PM
I didn't read this whole thread, but I think it's childish to nitpick at other Ron Paul supporters because the idea worked out better than they thought it would.

Why stir the pot? Aren't we all on the same team??

If people want to continue to make bold, outrageous predicitions about futures they know nothing about, they better be prepared to eat their words.

leglock
11-06-2007, 09:00 PM
The people who didn't like the date predicted that the media would use V for Vendetta and *gasp* Terrorism against us...

They did not, however, say that we wouldn't raise money.

NewEnd
11-06-2007, 09:04 PM
The people who didn't like the date predicted that the media would use V for Vendetta and *gasp* Terrorism against us...

They did not, however, say that we wouldn't raise money.

No, there were also those saying we needed the money *now*, and that trying to get everybody to donate on the same day was stupid.... which really ticked me off. Imagine if our ranks were infested with this. Imagine... no Nov 5, because we had become convinced it was stupid.

Imagine if nov 5th's strength was sapped 26%, and we pulled in just under $3M, and failed ot break Romneys record. It would have been a big story, but not the HUGE story.

Ridiculous
11-06-2007, 09:06 PM
I thought that the day would do well and was happy that it did. I wasn't really worried if the money came in October or November.

I was right that the media would use V Guy/Guy Fawkes references negatively, many said they wouldn't. In just about every article and interview it was brought up, just watch all the youtube videos that were collected today. CBS & CNN even showed the original V video that was taken down from the thisnovember5th site.

I thought that the media was going to be a lot more vicious about with the associations, but it looks like it was just one paragraph in each written story and a mention in the TV pieces. There was some pretty bad press here and there(there are plenty of links to these in todays posting), but it wasn't to horrible from the major news players. The Guy Fawkes thing just came off as pretty weird rather than all together horrible and bad for the campaign.

One of Ron Paul's spokes people had to say in an interview (paraphrase), "this is a peaceful campaign, Ron Paul doesn't support blowing up any buildings"
I think it is kind of stupid that it would be even necessary for him to have to say something like that. He shouldn't have to assure people that Ron Paul doesn't condone that sort of thing, it should just be assumed.

So what I thought was going to happen did happen, the day did well and Guy Fawkes and or V was mentioned in almost ever story.

What I was wrong about was that the media backlash wasn't as bad as I anticipated.

I don't think we should live in fear of the media, but I don't think we should be giving them any ammunition either.



Given all that, congratulations to Trevor and everyone who made the 5th possible

nayjevin
11-06-2007, 09:10 PM
It's not about gloating!

It's about shutting up the cancerous pessimists and naysayers who infect our ranks.....they may mean well...but their cautiousness can kill us...

AUDACITY is what wins wars

i don't consider this a war, i consider it a campaign. we don't need general freaking patton either.

Duckman
11-06-2007, 09:12 PM
If people want to continue to make bold, outrageous predicitions about futures they know nothing about, they better be prepared to eat their words.

Well, the predictions from both sides are coming true. We definitely got the media's attention, and every media outlet out there has carried the fact we raised money on Guy Fawkes day with it.

I see what happened yesterday as a good thing, and I will admit that my predictions of doom have (luckily) not come true. But I honestly think we dodged a bullet because the media could have had much more of a field day with 'V' than they currently have had. There has been some blowback, certainly. I'm sure that some percentage of people who got a first impression of RP in the media were put off by the Guy Fawkes/'V' stuff. Remember, our target audience is not college kid anarchists, but mainstream Republican voters, who we need to get Ron Paul nominated. Period.

There is still potential for more serious blowback if the media does a little more digging on this (which it seems they won't at this point IMO).

I just don't understand the attitude that thinks publicly linking the campaign with real or fictional terrorists can possibly bring anything good to this campaign. I'm also offended that certain people want to create lists of those who provided these warnings as if we are people to be scorned because we are "party poopers."

I still 100% believe that if we had raised this much money on any other day than Nov 5 that the positive effect would have been even greater, provided we had the same number of donors, because we would have had all the benefits of the huge fundraising day without any of these 'V' related negatives. Nothing else, short of dedicating a fundraising day to coincide with the Charles Manson murders, could have been more weird and potentially off-putting to voters.

nayjevin
11-06-2007, 09:12 PM
No, there were also those saying we needed the money *now*, and that trying to get everybody to donate on the same day was stupid.... which really ticked me off. Imagine if our ranks were infested with this. Imagine... no Nov 5, because we had become convinced it was stupid.

i felt, and still feel, that oct 31 would have made more sense, because we would have hit our 4 million dollar goal. as it is we missed it, and it appears it's because of this november 5th.

it has worked out well, but it could have been better.

nayjevin
11-06-2007, 09:15 PM
I still 100% believe that if we had raised this much money on any other day than Nov 5 that the positive effect would have been even greater, provided we had the same number of donors, because we would have had all the benefits of the huge fundraising day without any of these 'V' related negatives. Nothing else, short of dedicating a fundraising day to coincide with the Charles Manson murders, could have been more weird and potentially off-putting to voters.

i take the manson thing as an exaggerated example, and agree entirely.

if i were trying to topple this campaign 2 weeks ago, i would have suggested having a fundraising day AFTER the coming $4 million goal, and encourage people to not donate until then.

then i would announce the big fundraising day to be one which could tie paul to 'terrorists.'

it went well, but we could have done it without the risk.

NewEnd
11-06-2007, 09:17 PM
i take the manson thing as an exaggerated example, and agree entirely.

if i were trying to topple this campaign 2 weeks ago, i would have suggested having a fundraising day AFTER the coming $4 million goal, and encourage people to not donate until then.

then i would announce the big fundraising day to be one which could tie paul to 'terrorists.'

it went well, but we could have done it without the risk.

Looks like it would have backfired horribly, huh?

Ridiculous
11-06-2007, 09:17 PM
Well, the predictions from both sides are coming true. We definitely got the media's attention, and every media outlet out there has carried the fact we raised money on Guy Fawkes day with it.

I see what happened yesterday as a good thing, and I will admit that my predictions of doom have (luckily) not come true. But I honestly think we dodged a bullet because the media could have had much more of a field day with 'V' than they currently have had. There has been some blowback, certainly. I'm sure that some percentage of people who got a first impression of RP in the media were put off by the Guy Fawkes/'V' stuff. Remember, our target audience is not college kid anarchists, but mainstream Republican voters, who we need to get Ron Paul nominated. Period.

There is still potential for more serious blowback if the media does a little more digging on this (which it seems they won't at this point IMO).

I just don't understand the attitude that thinks publicly linking the campaign with real or fictional terrorists can possibly bring anything good to this campaign. I'm also offended that certain people want to create lists of those who provided these warnings as if we are people to be scorned because we are "party poopers."

I still 100% believe that if we had raised this much money on any other day than Nov 5 that the positive effect would have been even greater, provided we had the same number of donors, because we would have had all the benefits of the huge fundraising day without any of these 'V' related negatives. Nothing else, short of dedicating a fundraising day to coincide with the Charles Manson murders, could have been more weird and potentially off-putting to voters.

+1

kylejack
11-06-2007, 09:18 PM
+1

"I see what happened yesterday as a good thing, and I will admit that my predictions of doom have (luckily) not come true."

Thanks for +1'ing this, it was very big of you to admit how wrong you ended up being and how huge of a success yesterday was.

tfelice
11-06-2007, 09:22 PM
I think one of the reasons they have not gone for the jugular is because the V imagery was removed from the site, and the references elsewhere were toned down. If this was a full out V for Vendetta day as it looked like it could have been initially, there might have been more blood in the water for the MSM.

I'll second what was said above "it went well, but we could have done it without the risk"

Duckman
11-06-2007, 09:22 PM
Thanks for +1'ing this, it was very big of you to admit how wrong you ended up being and how huge of a success yesterday was.

I don't know why I keep posting in this thread, because it will likely end up with one or the other of us being banned for the comments we make, but obviously you have learned nothing from this experience, you don't care that we took a risky gamble, you just want to rub people's noses in the final outcome.

If things had been different I would not be rubbing your nose in it.

Grow up.

nayjevin
11-06-2007, 09:23 PM
Looks like it would have backfired horribly, huh?

it could have been better

paulitics
11-06-2007, 09:23 PM
I admit it did better than I originally thought. I was risk averse on this idea, and thought the coverage would have been more negative than positive due to the violent connotiations of the movie. There was some negative propaganda, but less than I thought. We also raised alot more than I originally expected. But lets stop these devisive threads, because I guaranteed the next time there is a hitpiece on Guy Falkes and RP, there will be more "I told you so's" from the other side. Its over and it did well and for that I commend everyone for sticking it out. Lets move on to the next money bomb, without as much drama.

Ridiculous
11-06-2007, 09:26 PM
"I see what happened yesterday as a good thing, and I will admit that my predictions of doom have (luckily) not come true."

Thanks for +1'ing this, it was very big of you to admit how wrong you ended up being and how huge of a success yesterday was.

Read all of his post and mine above, we weren't really all that wrong, the negative just wasn't as negative as it could have been. We gave them the media ammunition and we dodged a bullet.

Had the V imagery not been toned down off of the 5th site it might have been a lot worse. I'll agree with the poster above that said that this could have been done just as successfully without the risk.

I am glad that I was wrong about the backlash being as bad as some of us predicted, but the V/Fawkes stuff was mentioned in practically every news story and came off as pretty weird at the very least.

No one thought the day was going to do poorly and we are all glad it did well.

kylejack
11-06-2007, 09:29 PM
I don't know why I keep posting in this thread, because it will likely end up with one or the other of us being banned for the comments we make, but obviously you have learned nothing from this experience, you don't care that we took a risky gamble, you just want to rub people's noses in the final outcome.

If things had been different I would not be rubbing your nose in it.

Grow up.
A lot of us had a lot of faith in this fund-raising effort and you and your ilk (but Ridiculous in particular, rather than you) did everything possible to put a stop to it. You say that we could have had just as big a media blitz with the same money raised using a different theme, and you're right...but the money raised would not have been possible without such a powerful pop culture reference, so the point is moot. You could contest the point if you wanted: Come up with your own website to co-ordinate donations. If you can come up with a theme that is powerful enough to get virally networked and to raise a similar amount of money, you would make your point relevant again.

But frankly I won't hold my breath.

Posters like Ridiculous started DOZENS of threads criticizing the effort and attempting to de-rail it, so you'll forgive me for being a little smug when their theory about what a horrible thing it will be from a PR standpoint goes down in flames. Ridiculous and ilk succeeded in convincing some people to not donate on 11/5, so any success we had was limited by however many people he dissuaded, so I'm going to feel free to rub his nose in it. Please note that I was replying specifically to him and did not address you, because he was the worst of the bunch.

I understand that your intentions were noble, but Ridiculous' methods were detestable. I have no mercy for swine. He continued his thread-shitting today by calling me out for a gross reference I made when several other posters had made gross references, before I had made any comments to him about how wrong he was on this fund-raiser. He didn't approach these forums after the Fifth with a conciliatory demeanor, but rather with a combative demeanor. He wants a war, so he's going to fucking get it.

NewEnd
11-06-2007, 09:29 PM
No one thought the day was going to do poorly and we are all glad it did well.

No, lots of people were trying to dissuade people from donating on Nov 5, and trying to tell them they needed to donate *now*

and those were the most annoying and anti-productive comments of all.

Duckman
11-06-2007, 09:32 PM
I understand that your intentions were noble, but Ridiculous' methods were detestable.

Well, this sounds like it's between you and him then, and I would suggest you either get over this or take this to PM.

kylejack
11-06-2007, 09:34 PM
Well, this sounds like it's between you and him then, and I would suggest you either get over this or take this to PM.
Or, how about when I reply to HIM you don't accuse me of rubbing YOUR nose in it, since I was addressing HIM and not YOU.

Duckman
11-06-2007, 09:36 PM
Or, how about when I reply to HIM you don't accuse me of rubbing YOUR nose in it, since I was addressing HIM and not YOU.

You are rubbing all our noses in it by creating this thread, which is designed to target all Nov 5th naysayers and not just him.

kylejack
11-06-2007, 09:39 PM
You are rubbing all our noses in it by creating this thread, which is designed to target all Nov 5th naysayers and not just him.
I think you just accused me for the second time of doing something I didn't do.

paulitics
11-06-2007, 09:40 PM
No, lots of people were trying to dissuade people from donating on Nov 5, and trying to tell them they needed to donate *now*

and those were the most annoying and anti-productive comments of all.

I remember when there was a headquarters money bomb (NH radio?) , and there were several posts urging people to donate now instead of Nov 5th, if they could not afford both. I see nothing wrong with that, especially considering the multitude of Nov 5th posts going on during that current money bomb. in some ways, one can make the case, that it was Nov 5th interfering with the campaign's fundraising at that time.
There may have been a couple people saying, we should email all the Nov 5th people to tell them plans have changed, and that was a different thing all together. That I disagreed with, and spoke in favor of the Nov 5th people in keeping their plans. There is an important distinction.

traviskicks
11-06-2007, 09:41 PM
Ron Paul and the media are having good fun with this "V" for Vendetta theme that had your panties all up...

BOLDNESS works...and now we have respect.

V rentals will probably skyrocket and our ranks will swell with people seeing the film for the first time...

You naysayers tried so hard to kill Trevor's baby. You should come forward and admit your folly....we'll forgive you....as long as you dont try to discourage ANY idea...


hey, no gloating! Next time it might be them who are correct, we don't want to get cocky and carried away. There is a filtering process that exists on the internet and on this forum, a 'wisdom of the crowds' so to speak, consisting of US!, 'we the people' so to speak. Good ideas are filtered to the top, bad ideas are kept down, we need to focus on the free transmission of information and individual choice without stratification or heirchy, to enhance the sense of quality that we collectively choose. But we also need to recognize that today's 11/5 naysayer could be tommorrows next great idea and vice versa!

Duckman
11-06-2007, 09:42 PM
I think you just accused me for the second time of doing something I didn't do.

You're right, my mistake. I'm not sure what the first time was, but dude, rather than try to pick a fight with a bunch of fellow RP supporters here you should find a better outlet for your frustrations. :rolleyes:

Ridiculous
11-06-2007, 09:43 PM
I was not trying to derail anything but the V and Guy Fawkes associations, I was always for a donation drive. I never ONCE told ANYONE not to donate, EVER.

I wasn't one of the people trying to derail the project because of the October goal.

kylejack
11-06-2007, 09:43 PM
I remember when there was a headquarters money bomb (NH radio?) , and there were several posts urging people to donate now instead of Nov 5th, if they could not afford both. I see nothing wrong with that, especially considering the multitude of Nov 5th posts going on during that current money bomb. in some ways, one can make the case, that it was Nov 5th interfering with the campaign's fundraising at that time.
There may have been a couple people saying, we should email all the Nov 5th people to tell them plans have changed, and that was a different thing all together. That I disagreed with, and spoke in favor of the Nov 5th people in keeping their plans. There is an important distinction.
I can agree with that. I will credit some among that movement for encouraging people to keep their 11/5 commitment but to donate sooner if they could, and good on them for that.

I'm glad that not many people listened to the people who were telling others not to donate at all on 11/5. 11/5 was a success in spite of the people trying to kill it, and for that I'm really thankful. The huge media blitz will gain us a lot of new supporters.

James R
11-06-2007, 10:01 PM
Ron Paul and the media are having good fun with this "V" for Vendetta theme that had your panties all up...

BOLDNESS works...and now we have respect.

V rentals will probably skyrocket and our ranks will swell with people seeing the film for the first time...

You naysayers tried so hard to kill Trevor's baby. You should come forward and admit your folly....we'll forgive you....as long as you dont try to discourage ANY idea...

For the most part coverage has been fair. There has been a few really bad stories about it though. Those stories would have not been so bad if a different theme was used.

kahless
11-06-2007, 10:12 PM
The V people do not get it. I and it seems many here did not have a problem with the November 5th target date. The issue was with violent revolution imagery creating an unneeded potential problem in the media therefore effectively creating a perception driving would be supporters from the campaign.

Even though the V association was removed, it created an unneeded negative that came up time and time again in each of these videos despite the unpredented level of contributions. Luckily it seems for now to be over shadowed by the unprecedented level of contributions. However how many would be voters that we really need were turned off by these reports despite the contributions.

The campaign still has a problem with being associated with wackos. That may only get worse after I predict when Paul wins the NH primary. If that happens the establishment Republicans and MSM are going to go all out at to derail this campaign. So the point was lets not give them a rope to hang ourselves.

Ridiculous
11-06-2007, 10:15 PM
The V people do not get it. I and it seems many here did not have a problem with the November 5th target date. The issue was with violent revolution imagery creating an unneeded potential problem in the media therefore effectively creating a perception driving would be supporters from the campaign.

It was an unneeded negative that came up time and time again in each of these videos despite the unpredented level of contributions. Luckily it seems for now to be over shadowed by the unprecedented level of contributions. However how many would be voters that we really need were turned off by these reports despite the contributions.

The campaign still has a problem with being associated with wackos. That may only get worse after I predict when Paul wins the NH primary. If that happens the establishment Republicans and MSM are going to go all out at to derail this campaign. So the point was lets not give them a rope to hang ourselves.

+1

nayjevin
11-06-2007, 11:03 PM
The V people do not get it. I and it seems many here did not have a problem with the November 5th target date. The issue was with violent revolution imagery creating an unneeded potential problem in the media therefore effectively creating a perception driving would be supporters from the campaign.

Even though the V association was removed, it created an unneeded negative that came up time and time again in each of these videos despite the unpredented level of contributions. Luckily it seems for now to be over shadowed by the unprecedented level of contributions. However how many would be voters that we really need were turned off by these reports despite the contributions.

The campaign still has a problem with being associated with wackos. That may only get worse after I predict when Paul wins the NH primary. If that happens the establishment Republicans and MSM are going to go all out at to derail this campaign. So the point was lets not give them a rope to hang ourselves.

and one

angelatc
11-06-2007, 11:26 PM
I feel that this result would have been far more powerful on veterans day - because of the way the media handles it - and just as feasible. it could have been better.

Case in point:

'Ron Paul raises $4.3m in a day on the back of notorious terrorist'

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle2821161.ece

And if you had thought of it first we would have gone with that date. But you didn't.

Van Damme
11-06-2007, 11:45 PM
The day was a huge success (obviously). Could it have been achieved without the association with V for Vendetta, maybe and maybe not. We will never know for sure. However, the people that were the "naysayers" were not against a mass donation day, they were against association with V for Vendetta for fear of what the media would say. The naysayers were correct, most of the media outlets reported the association with V for Vendetta and Guy Fawkes day. Was the negative press resulting from this association worth the impressive haul of cash on Nov. 5th? I certainly think so. However, the naysayers were just concerned about the association, they were not skeptics about the success of the fund raising. Would an alternative day been better if it yielded the same fund raising success? Undoubtedly. Would it have yielded the same success? Maybe not. However, there are now people on this planet that think supporter of Ron Paul are advocates of terrorism, because they saw media pieces like this :
Morning Joe: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3a5_1194407184 . Was this sacrifice worth it? I think $4 million is a large enough sum to say yes. Was it avoidable? maybe. I said the media would spin this in a negative light, and I think to some degree they did. If that makes me a naysayer, very well.

Flirple
11-07-2007, 02:45 AM
Both sides had very legitimate arguments. I pledged early on despite my reservations because it was undeniable (for better or worse) that the V theme was a very good motivator for many people that couldn't just be replaced by switching the theme and the date.

I think the lesson to be learned is that it is more productive to join the cause so you give the event a multi-faceted face. In other words, by everybody joining in and making new videos and things that were not using the V theme (such as the Ron Paul Girl, the "Back to the Constitution" video, or Adam Currey's promotion of the day) it softened it and made it more mainstream while at the same time others could use the V theme to motivate that segment that responded to it. I think because it was watered down somewhat by it not being monolithically a V theme the press has been overall fair so and hasn't tried to smear us/Ron over the association.

And of course, anybody who was saying that it was a complete waste of time and that the effort would not help increase the end-of-quarter fund raising total was just plain wrong. And if they were dragging their feet and trying to discourage the effort after the initial debate was had, then they should indeed apologize.

If you can't beat em, join em.

misconstrued
11-07-2007, 04:12 AM
This internal "us against them" mentality won't help us at all. While we may not always see things the same we are all on the same side. We just have to accept that Ron Paul brings together many different types of people and we will occasionally butt heads with each other. There's no reason for the pro V people to gloat now and no reason for anti-V people to admit they got anything wrong.

We all need to now set our sights on November 11th and then get ready to make history again on December 16th.

Roxi
11-07-2007, 04:22 AM
..

nayjevin
11-07-2007, 04:24 AM
The day was a huge success (obviously). Could it have been achieved without the association with V for Vendetta, maybe and maybe not. We will never know for sure. However, the people that were the "naysayers" were not against a mass donation day, they were against association with V for Vendetta for fear of what the media would say. The naysayers were correct, most of the media outlets reported the association with V for Vendetta and Guy Fawkes day. Was the negative press resulting from this association worth the impressive haul of cash on Nov. 5th? I certainly think so. However, the naysayers were just concerned about the association, they were not skeptics about the success of the fund raising. Would an alternative day been better if it yielded the same fund raising success? Undoubtedly. Would it have yielded the same success? Maybe not. However, there are now people on this planet that think supporter of Ron Paul are advocates of terrorism, because they saw media pieces like this :
Morning Joe: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3a5_1194407184 . Was this sacrifice worth it? I think $4 million is a large enough sum to say yes. Was it avoidable? maybe. I said the media would spin this in a negative light, and I think to some degree they did. If that makes me a naysayer, very well.

nice post.

also let's keep in mind that in some states it's too late to register republican - so the only important target audience is established conservatives --- not necessarily the facebook crowd turned on by this drive.

hard@work
11-07-2007, 04:29 AM
Hey, next time be more divisive and hurtful to people that were genuinely concerned. Because we shure showed them and boy they need to pay.

qwerty
11-07-2007, 04:39 AM
I say, forget that question on headline and START working together to get even bigger event in DEC 16TH!

TOGETHER WE ARE STRONGER!

misconstrued
11-07-2007, 04:46 AM
I say, forget that question on headline and START working together to get even bigger event in DEC 16TH!

TOGETHER WE ARE STRONGER!

Exactly!

(hopefully the mods will lock this thread and let it die...)

Ozwest
11-07-2007, 05:12 AM
I just clocked on, and can't be bothered reading through this whole thread... In the wee hours of the morning, detractors of Nov. 5 know that the "truthers" and "conspiracy theorists", for the most part, brought "home the bacon"... Positives vs. negatives? You decide... Might be time for some of you to back right off and think about Ron Paul would do, rather than what the dying Republican Party drones would do... Loosen that tie and "go with the flow". Peace.

Nash
11-09-2007, 03:44 PM
No, lots of people were trying to dissuade people from donating on Nov 5, and trying to tell them they needed to donate *now*

and those were the most annoying and anti-productive comments of all.


I was originally against the date (not the drive) but when I realized a few days prior that there was no stopping it from happening I basically resigned myself to the "can't beat them so join them" mentality.

I donated money and told all my friends to.

I don't think anyone needs to "admit their error" because at least in my case I wasn't bashing the date I just wasn't going around hyping it on every youtube video that I saw.

For the record there were a significant number of people who donated just on word of mouth alone. I didn't pledge, none of my friends did, nor did I even visit the website and neither did they. For a lot of people it was just "a day to donate". Many were oblivious to the guy fawkes and V tie in. I know several older voters who donated because "this was the day" but had no clue about why.

That's all irrelevant now. We gave the campaign a ton of cash and doing it all on one day was a great idea. Everybody wins. I don't think "I told you so's" are necessary here. Lets leave that for people who mistakenly support other candidates.

jpinkerton
11-09-2007, 04:04 PM
Why does it matter who was right and who was wrong? Let it go, don't focus on something like this that really in the end does not matter. The only thing you're doing is stirring up animosity. Surprised this thread was allowed to live for so long, where's the lock?

Justicar333
11-12-2007, 01:26 AM
I think it did send a message, though abject terror in the elites is a tad ludricious. But it did say people are ticked off with the establishment. That the people are going to do something about it. The media tried to slam it, but it isn't sticking because of the success. It's pretty obvious the meda are mostly putting out bs about this election. When they say terrorist, people just roll their eyes and look at the numbers. Vetrans day is a very noble thing to donate for, but it doesn't have the pull Guy Fawkes did because of the pop refrence to the youth.