Semi-Official 11/22 CNN Foreign Policy Debate Thread

[Bruno]

Airs tonight at 7 pm CST.

Discuss topics here including: pre-debate coverage, drinking games, bets on number of questions and minutes allowed for Ron Paul, and all other debate-related topics.

:)

http://www.justin.tv/static/iphone_promo#/cnn_republican_debate%23/w/2114391504/5

[bluesc]

He will get a good number of questions, and they will try to kill his momentum with them. Santorum will attack him. He will be asked about the holocaust answer, and pushed into repeating it, I will then proceed to get drunk and throw my TV across the room. Should be fun.

[afwjam]

WHAT MAKES THIS THREAD SEMI-OFFICIAL!!! GRRRRRR!

[wstrucke]

Instead of throwing your TV just write Ron a check for what it would cost to replace it.

[Dorfsmith]

Where will the stream be?

[bluesc]

Instead of throwing your TV just write Ron a check for what it would cost to replace it.

Who says I will replace it?

[beardedlinen]

Can we simply just drink throughout the entire thing? :(

[RileyE104]

Where will the stream be?

this.... i need a stream!!

[Ben Bernanke]

I just banged out a 12 page research paper for macro on the Solow Model


DRINKING RULES NEEDED PLEASE

[Tina]

He will get a good number of questions, and they will try to kill his momentum with them. Santorum will attack him. He will be asked about the holocaust answer, and pushed into repeating it, I will then proceed to get drunk and throw my TV across the room. Should be fun.

Ha! I'm hoping I'll be able to watch the whole thing. I get so ticked off I usually have to turn off the TV and fume for a few hours.

[Orgoonian]

He will get a good number of questions, and they will try to kill his momentum with them. Santorum will attack him. He will be asked about the holocaust answer, and pushed into repeating it, I will then proceed to get drunk and throw my TV across the room. Should be fun.

I did that last election,and never replaced the tv.
It's much more enjoyable to watch from the pub :D

[bunklocoempire]

Semi-Official eh? And not TOADY? And it was only created today.. Mmmm, I'll think about it... not sure I want to get behind this one 100%...


Bunkloco

[JCF]

Streams?

Guessing CNN will put up a link, but eh.

[afwjam]

What is with the stupid microphones?

[dannno]

Where will the stream be?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?332036-Live-CNN-stream-for-presidential-debate!!!!

[RonPaulRules]

The drinking game is as follows to get wasted: Every question Ron does not get, You Drink!

[dannno]

The drinking game is as follows to get wasted: Every question Ron does not get, You Drink!

Hey careful man, we need livers around to vote in the next election..

[wstrucke]

Who says I will replace it?

In the end everyone replaces it.

[wstrucke]

Hey careful man, we need livers around to vote in the next election..

How is it even possible to have over 27000 posts? That's something like 27 posts per day since you joined. Do you live on here??

[bluesc]

In the end everyone replaces it.

Not this good gentleman:


I did that last election,and never replaced the tv.
It's much more enjoyable to watch from the pub :D

[Feelgood]

http://nighttimethoughts.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/mountain20stream.jpg

[Give me liberty]

On CNN a while ago a lady was asked by john king what question would you like them to ask? the lady stated how to stop Iran getting a nuke :rolleyes:

[Dorfsmith]

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?332036-Live-CNN-stream-for-presidential-debate!!!!

Sweet. Thanks man.

[KramerDSP]

I endorse this semi official debate thread.

This debate has me especially riled up!

[J-Reg]

I hope Ron comes out swinging and knocks the socks off the audience!

[dannno]

How is it even possible to have over 27000 posts? That's something like 27 posts per day since you joined. Do you live on here??

It's easy to get carried away and find yourself 3 or 4 posts per page deep on a 40 page thread. That's like 100-150 posts about something really random, you'd be surprised.

It's also easy to make a lot of really concise posts.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/memberlist.php?order=desc&sort=posts&pp=30

[NorfolkPCSolutions]

Post like crazy, Dannno. Do what you like. Folks can stuff it if they don't like it.

link to CNN feed: http://tinyurl.com/btoeg6s

[Ben Bernanke]

Pre-debate coverage is painful

"Morality doesn't matter"

yeahhhhhhhhhh

[kylejack]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVC28oemocA

[Bruno]

"If we cut $1 trillion from defense, we will have to pull out from all around the world."

BINGO! And we will be safer because of it.

"whoever wins in Iowa, will break out."

[Bruno]

How did Vietnam "protect or defend" the United States?

[angelatc]

Bring on the debate!

[Bruno]

They forgot to include that Herman Cain was a former Fed chairman. You'd think that would be a credential, but they seem to always ignore it because it is not a popular position right now.

[Simple]

OMG, the predebate coverage, a guy described Ron Paul as top tier and the host responded, Umm,.... Ron Paul might run as a third party. I guess that's the talking point. She didn't seem ready for the top tier Ron Paul comment.

[angelatc]

Ron Paul had one of the best intros. Some people didn't even get a quote - Ron got a quote and a picture.

[angelatc]

OMG, the predebate coverage, a guy described Ron Paul as top tier and the host responded, Umm,.... Ron Paul might run as a third party. I guess that's the talking point. She didn't seem ready for the top tier Ron Paul comment.

We were all floored by that! Ummmmmm - well, what about Herman Cain???

[acptulsa]

OMG, the predebate coverage, a guy described Ron Paul as top tier and the host responded, Umm,.... Ron Paul might run as a third party. I guess that's the talking point. She didn't seem ready for the top tier Ron Paul comment.

Yeah, because the frontrunner is always looking to switch parties, right? Please, Ron Paul, quit while you're ahead? Puuuhhhhlllllllease?

[angelatc]

Mitt Romney even walks like a stiff.

[angelatc]

Wow - so they arranged the candidates by height?

[kpitcher]

My dish flickered as Ron was walking across the stage. Just me or all dish users?

[constitutionstory]

My dish flickered as Ron was walking across the stage. Just me or all dish users?

got a flicker too!

[Tina]

My dish flickered as Ron was walking across the stage. Just me or all dish users?

Mine did as well, also when frothy started speaking.

[acptulsa]

Mitt Romney spent his whole life in the private sector? Well, that certainly answers how a bunch of incompetents got the Big Dig project...

[acptulsa]

To all our relations overseas (you'll note we never went) we want to get you home as soon as we can. Of course, most of us can't get you home, because our sponsors want you to have a nice package tour of Iran first.

[Kodaddy]

For those of us without a tv and not near a computer, can we get a Play-by-play of questions and answers?
Please and thank you!

[Bruno]

"Would not change the Patriot Act" - Gingrinch

[Paulistinian]

Newt is all in for the Patriot Act.

[Tina]

Isn't Newt way over his one minute...

[Paulistinian]

Paul disagrees.

[constitutionstory]

Play-by-play of questions and answers?

First, Gingrich asked about Patriot act, draws distinction between criminal law and anti-terror actions.

Now onto Ron Paul.

[acptulsa]

Newt loves the Constitution except when someone thinks somebody is 'bringing a nuclear weapon into the U.S.' I guess that would be the Newtclear Option.

Ron Paul thinks the PATRIOT Act is unconstitutional, and thinks we got Timothy McVeigh without ever violating his Constitutional rights. He alluded to the Benjamin quote; you don't need to sacrifice liberty for security.

Newt says in counterpoint, McVeigh succeeded. Of course, he didn't use a nuclear weapon...

Paul points out that you might prevent crime by becoming a police state, but the real crime will be against the American people.

[acptulsa]

Bachmann thinks wired phones vs. wireless phones is a good excuse for overturning the old warrant requirements. Won't say why...

[constitutionstory]

Bachmann, are you with Gingrich or Paul on this issue (they had two answers each, as responses to each other)

from Blitzer

Now Bachmann answers, says interrogation of terrorists under Obama is now outsourced to ACLU.

[acptulsa]

Huntsman starts out saying that liberty is important, and an integral part of what makes America great.

Then, from the other side of his mouth, he says that states and localities need to work more closely with Washington.

[acptulsa]

Romney considers terror not crime, but war, and apparently thinks that anyone he calls a terrorist should consider the Constitution forfeit.

[constitutionstory]

Romney now says Gingrich was right,


crime versus terror as part of war

"when war is waged domestically"

"foes domestic and foreign"

"those who commit war, and attack the US, and treason" ... use different law

as Romney's line.

Now onto Perry and TSA

[Kodaddy]

Thanks in advance...can only keep up via my phone...

[acptulsa]

Perry thinks the big problem with the TSA is that it's federal and unionized. Typical Texas solution to a complex problem--open shop.

Now he's criticizing Obama for not giving the CIA a blank check.

[LibertyEagle]

Bachmann tried to imply that RP was not up on the changes of technology. ie. from wired phones to wireless phones. Yeah, Michelle, I think he knows. :rolleyes:

[acptulsa]

Santorum is pro-open shop and privatization, and pro PATRIOT Act. Lincoln, he says, ran over civil rights during the Civil War, and he figures now that terrorism has created Perpetual War the Constitution's toast.

[acptulsa]

'I would be very careful about protecting the rule of law. It will be a sacrifice that you'll be sorry for.'--Ron Paul

[constitutionstory]

Santorum, "we are at war"

last time a threat like this, the Civil War, present domestic threat

(skipped WW2 and Japanese internment camps)

Blitzer- religious profiling? ethnic profiling?

Santorum- the Muslims, younger males, not exclusively, these are the things you profile

Paul- "very careless use of words"

"terrorists? no, they're suspects"

Paul does not remember voting for a declaration of war, says terror is a tactic and not a person or people.

"anybody associated with organizations" wording change for Al-Qaeda, and Taliban defintions, now American citizens "vulnerable to assassination"

[Tinnuhana]

So, is it going well so far? Has Ron been booed yet? :rolleyes:

[acptulsa]

Cain has a plan for domestic security, I guess. He seems to want the experts over at the CIA to do something better, but we don't know what...

[acptulsa]

Huntsman wants term limits, and says Pakistan ought to keep us up at night. Guess that's what he means about America's 'light shining'.

[constitutionstory]

Huntsman answering Frederick Kagan of American Enterprise Institute on drone campaign in Pakistan,

Huntsman says military, ISI, President, madrassa movement, over 100 nuclears, trouble on the border

an expanded drone program would serve "our national interest"

don't need to nation build in Afghanistan

now onto Bachmann, should Pakistan get aid?

[acptulsa]

Bachmann wants to give money to Pakistan lest the Chinese buy more influence there than we do. She wants to do just what Obama is doing, but do it completely more effectively.

[acptulsa]

Perry says if they don't do what we say, we cut off the money. Bachmann calls that naive, basically says our money is preventing Pakistan from selling nuclear weapons to Al-Qaida.

[constitutionstory]

Bachmann, primarily intelligence money to Pakistan

"at this point I would continue that aid"

"Obama policy of keeping your fingers crossed is not working

now Perry, if you are not going to be an ally of the US do not expect a dime of our citizen's money to be coming into your country

now if we want to engage (our companies), build these countries- but not just "a check" to them

Bachmann, have to maintain an American presence, we have to have our interest, which is nat'l security, represented. and perry is highly naive, she says.

Perry, not blank checks, Afghanistan/India working into it, we need a trade zone

[acptulsa]

Romney--'We can't just write off a major part of the world... We want to draw them toward modernity.' Doesn't think Pakistan is up to the twentieth century. Thinks we should spend (more?) to do a better job of selling them on Westernism.

[specsaregood]

Is romney arguing that we need to get more troops killed because we already had troops killed?

[acptulsa]

Huntsman: The American people are very frustrated that we don't know what the endpoint in Afghanistan is.

Romney quotes commanders on the ground--surge troops out in a year and all in three years. Gains in peril but doesn't say what those gains are. Uses the 'cut and run' phrase.


Is romney arguing that we need to get more troops killed because we already had troops killed?

If there was any more justification in there I didn't hear it.

Edit: Oh, there it was. He actually thinks we're about to rid the Afghanis of the Taliban.

[constitutionstory]

Romney: what we did with Indonesia and the 1960s, modernity, "new leadership"

and 12% American approval in Pakistan, need opportunities of the West and freedom for these people

Huntsman: honest conversation about sacrifices, free 2004 elections, ran taliban out of Kabul, achieved important goals, but we have 100,000 troops nation building in Afghanistan. we need drone presence. we have not made an endpoint...

Romney- are you having them, all 100,000 drawing out of Afghanistan?

Huntsman, 10,000-15,000 presence in Afghanistan. counter-terrorism will be in front of us as far as I can see in the 21st century.

Romney- "I stand with the commanders in this regard" not time for "America to cut and run"
also the investment of blood and treasure.

Huntsman- people listened to the generals in 1967, I'm going to listen to a lot of different voices

Romney- listen and then make your decision

(this was the longest 2 person back and forth... very long)

Gingrich's turn now

[phill4paul]

They are definately going after Ron. relish it. It means top-tier!

[phill4paul]

Rebuttal DAMNIT!

[paulpwns]

Paul: Skipped on Pakistan

[acptulsa]

Gingrich feels national sovereignty is a completely archaic concept. Wherever and whenever we want to chase terrorists, all we have to do is ask the nation where they are to kill them, and if they don't we have a right to march right in.

Santorum--'I agree with Ron Paul. Terrorism is not an enemy. Terrorism is a tactic.' Yet he wants to win this thing--somehow (wants to defeat terrorism worldwide, but doesn't say how that's done other than 'not playing politics' with it)...

[constitutionstory]

Santorum "I agree with Ron Paul"

says we're not at war with terror, a tactic, but radical Islam.

Most memorable quote so far this debate, even better than "I agree with Ron Paul" is the major lack of truthiness in Wolf Blitzer saying we will soon hear from

"Congressman Cain"

I mean, he was a Governor... of the Federal Reserve. Not an elected position, as being a Congressman is.

I think this should be called out, and brought to attention. How do you call a major presidential candidate who has not been elected to a public office a "Congressman"?

[TomtheTinker]

These guys make our points for us. 12% approval rating billions and billions spent... Thousands dead..this is our point.

[constitutionstory]

"Why does Israel need our help? We need to get out of their way?"

"they want to bomb something, that's their business"

"quite capable of taking care of themselves"

Egypt- "we were buying friendship"

"willing to go to war without declaration by Congress"

[acptulsa]

LULZ!

Cain, of all people, talking about 'clarity of mission'...!

Paul--I would not help Israel attack Iran, but because that would be a dumb thing to do. 'Why does Israel need our help? They need us out of the way..! When they attacked a Syrian missile site back in the 'eighties, I was one of the few in Congress who said it was none of our business... The whole thing is going to backfire when we go bankrupt...'

Cain thinks Iran is in a position to '...fill a power vacuum in Afghanistan.' Seriously, Herman?

[acptulsa]

Perry wants to sanction Iranian central bank and shut down their economy.

[TomtheTinker]

Cain didnt even listen whats ron said...just went to his default statement.

[constitutionstory]

Rick Perry wants to sanction the Iranian Central Bank, no-fly over Syria, sanctions on Iran, they will understand America is serious.

[angelatc]

Ron Paul is just not well spoken enough to win this debate. This is breaking my heart.

[acptulsa]

Gingrich--us U.S. oil to make Middle Eastern oil irrelevant. Isn't that just cutting and running and keeping in the fight at the same time, Newt? We drain our own oil reserves, and drain our economy fighting them anyway...

Bachmann accuses Obama of unilaterally 'disarming' the U.S. and gives killing the Keystone Pipeline as an example. She also says Iran could actually use a nuke against Israel and the U.S. Doesn't say how that would be possible...

[acptulsa]

'Africa was a country on the brink.' Brilliant, Santorum. 'America is that shining city on the hill.' Thinks wisely spending money on foreign aid has saved the U.S. money.

[angelatc]

'Africa was a country on the brink.' Brilliant, Santorum.

Yeah, the left will trash him over that.

Herman cracks me up. He hasn't a clue, but that doesn't stop him from talking.

[acptulsa]

Cain wants to look at the results, on both foreign aid and domestically, and judge all programs. Obviously, he has yet to look at a single one.

Ron Paul has clearly looked, and sees nothing of value. He says the biggest threat to America is our own economic condition.

Romney rebuts by saying that military is important, Obamacare is not.

'They're not cutting anything from anything. All this talk is just talk.'--Ron Paul

Romney talks about F-22, carriers and cruisers, long range bombers, says this hurts America's ability to defend itself. Says Obama is friendly to foes, and rude to friends. Wants to shut down Iranian economy, says this is what's good for Israel and his first foreign trip would be to Israel. Paul not given a chance to rebut.

[constitutionstory]

Ron Paul, on foreign aid and other int'l program spending

"we're in big trouble and no one wants to cut anything"

"The biggest threat to our national security is" ... our financial system

Romney- they're cutting money from military for ObamaCare

Paul response, they're not cutting anything out of anything,

all this talk is just talk. Nibbling away at baseline budgeting. It's not going up as rapidly as they want it to.

Romney, first 350bn cut, stop F22, navy cruiser, long range AF bombers not built, cutting capacity of America to defend itself

failure on the part of the President to act with strength

No price on an Iranian nuclear weapon

Blitzer, we will stay on this subject.

Next question, on defense spending to Gingrich...

[acptulsa]

Gingrich disagrees with Ron Paul about '...forcing Israel to use their nuclear weapons.' Ron Paul not allowed to rebut. Again.

Huntsman: 'We can't have an intellectually honest discussion about debt and defecit with sacred cows.'

Huntsman riding the fence. We can't be secure unless we're secure economically one second, counter-terrorism is here to stay the next.

Perry says the SuperCommittee failed because of Obama, actually cites his military service and thinks he was commander in chief of Texas National Guard (uhm, Perry, Dubya stole your command there, bubba).

[Kodaddy]

When did we become such a bloodthirsty country? Kill,kill,kill!

[acptulsa]

Bachman is better than Cain at saying nothing whatsoever that is specific yet sounding like she is.

And they seem to be trying to cover for not letting Paul talk by not letting Romney talk either. 'We used to only let you hear from the frontrunners. Now that Paul's a frontrunner, we can only let you hear from the backbenchers.'

[moderate libertarian]

After hearing some of these candidates views, sometimes I think RP should get out of this hopeless sick cult.

On a different note, douchebag Wolfowits of Iraq disaster makes a showing in a GOP debate. What a shame.

Retired Zionist Wolf Blitzer of CNN is not too bad in part of debate I heard but would be interesting if he would ask a question about Obama veto threat on recent Palestinian UN petition for independence. Although that may not sit well with religious racism lobbies within GOP.

[acptulsa]

'...and much much MORE!' Only Wolf Blitzer could make a Republican presidential debate sound like a ShamWOW.

[phill4paul]

Damn, didn't see an unofficial thread. I belong here then. :D

My analysis so far....

Engineered.

Ron was in the thick at the beginning.

Others gave mention in difference. Ron was afforded a split screen. Shaking his head because they misrepresented his beliefs. Did not get a rebuttal. The negative reaction of Paul to the misrepresentation of his beliefs is interpreted by viewers as being negative to their pronouncements(pro-GOP) without clarification.

[acptulsa]

'Let's start with Governor Perry. You represent the state with the longest border with Mexico right now...' Does he think that Texas will someday not have the longest border with Mexico of any state?

Ron Paul: 'The drug war was mentioned. That's another war I think we ought to cancel.' Says to relieve pressure on border states, don't force them to give non-citizens benefits. On follow up: 'Alchohol is a deadly drug. Prescription drugs kill more people than the illegal drugs... We spend trillions of dollars on the War on Drugs, and believe me these kids can still get the drugs.'

Cain: 'Secure the border for real.' Thanks, Herman.

[constitutionstory]

A drug war...

"we ought to cancel"

Pakistan/Afghanistan border, but forgetting about our border back at home.

Mandating to states, and to Texas, free med/educ. a great burden- talk about eliminating welfare state, the incentive.

"Cancel the war on drugs?"

"I think the federal war on drugs is a complete failure."

"Compassionate conservatives" are against medical marijuana

Prescription drugs kill more people than the illegal drugs, and trillion over 40 years on drug war.

[acptulsa]

Bachmann--if you want citizenship, you can't have it unless you have skills Apple wants. Gingrich--if you want citizenship you can have it if you belong to a church. Romney--we want the ones that get the skills we want but we have to cut off in-state tuition for illegals to 'turn off the magnets'. Perry merely seems upset that the Texas-Mexico border is a demilitarized zone.

[Kodaddy]

Boy, it seems like none of them except RP ever took a course in logic...

[acptulsa]

Cain--boycott of Syria but not a no-fly zone. Wants to stop cutting military, wants economic growth, wants not to say how he'd accomplish all this.

Romney thinks a no-fly zone over Syria will help us prevent Iran from getting nukes. Doesn't say how.

[kylejack]

Is romney arguing that we need to get more troops killed because we already had troops killed?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_costs#Loss_aversion_and_the_sunk_cost_fallacy

[acptulsa]

Huntsman shows his true colors. Against war in Libya, but Syria is a threat to Israel, and that's different. Meanwhile, '...centrifuges are spinning in Iran.'

But he does make a point--'I think we do ourselves a disservice by jumping in too quickly with allies we don't understand.'

[acptulsa]

'So, if you want to inspire Al Qaeda, just meddle in the region.'--Ron Paul. 'If you have a no-fly zone over Syria, that's an act of war. What if you had China instill a no-fly zone over us? You wouldn't like that.'--Ron Paul. 'We don't need another nation to start nation building, we have way too many already.'--Ron Paul

[acptulsa]

Romney says the U.S. isn't just another country with a flag. Wants us to do sanctions, covert action, find a way to immobilize their cavalry (yow), regime change.

[acptulsa]

Ron Paul did 'surprisingly well'? Huh? You're saying you were surprised that libertarian sensibilities are now causing positive comment on Twitbook? What?

[acptulsa]

Romney--we need to be able to do everything and do it all at once, and I don't know how to do all of that now that we're broke but I'm going to pretend like it's possible.

Cain--Now that y'all called me out on 9-9-9 I'm just not gonna say anything specific at all whatsoever.

Bachmann--I have libertarian talking points I learned from Ron Paul but I'm going to sound conventional and quote statistics and hope you don't notice I'm not actually saying anything.

Huntsman--Yes, the current wars are not popular so I'm against them, but that doesn't mean there aren't any ripe fields for conquest out there...

Perry--Let's stop worrying about these middle easterners and kick Mexico's ass.

Santorum--You laughed at Miss Teen South Carolina for mentioning the country of Africa, and I'm about to find out how that feels.

[heavenlyboy34]

Ron Paul is just not well spoken enough to win this debate. This is breaking my heart.
None of them are that well-spoken. Ron is just the "least bad" of the bad, IMHO. Overall, I think RP made better use of his time in this debate.

[Bruno]

CNN Post debate analysis: Gingrich, Paul spar over Patriot Act

[kylejack]

An analyst on the local Fox station in Houston just said Ron Paul did great tonight, as well as Newt and Romney. Very positive comments about Ron's performance.

[wgadget]

Did you guys see the front and center on Drudge?

[kylejack]

"These Republicans were trying to out-Jack Bauer each other, with the exception of Ron Paul"
-a progressive analyst on this local Fox show

[kylejack]

Host just said Ron Paul had a "big impact" on this debate. They're really impressed with him tonight.

[beardedlinen]

This it what happens when you give Paul time. He makes sense! He was good with a lot of the questions but NAILED some particulars, and now the pundits are talking about his performance.

I see this as a net positive.

[acptulsa]

If you want America to maintain its greatness, the logical course is to maintain those things which made America great. And it seems to me that only one of the candidates in the race understands that what made America great is Americans, and what allowed Americans to make America great is their liberty.

Don't know why so much of Wasshington considers that a hard concept. Guess liberty is too messy for them. But I'll just bet that, if we keep on keeping on, we can give them plenty of time off to work that out...