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View Full Version : [Video] Representing Ron Paul @ Occupy DC




Phil
11-19-2011, 06:24 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hJaC-TB3_c

ZanZibar
11-19-2011, 06:29 PM
Associating RP with the Occupy movement is a bad idea. We are trying to win a Republican election here.

unknown
11-19-2011, 06:30 PM
Where can this dude be found if u wanna support him?

JoshS
11-19-2011, 06:31 PM
Associating RP with the Occupy movement is a bad idea. We are trying to win a Republican election here.

Shut. Up.

chris41336
11-19-2011, 06:33 PM
Shut. Up.

Why? He is absolutely right.

We want to be cautiously open to OWS, but we don't want Ron to be the "OWS Candidate" in the Republican primary or he will lose.

JoshS
11-19-2011, 06:37 PM
That's the most backward line of thought I've ever heard. This isn't a conventional campaign that Ron is running, if he wins it would be a political paradigm shift. He won't win through conventional methods and Ron himself has said the grassroots should do whatever they want to do to support him. The media isn't going to give him attention, we need to create the attention ourselves through our own means.

Besides people have been touting Ron Paul at OWS since it's beginning and he has no bad label because of it, only more votes from newly awakened folks looking for economic justice.

civusamericanus
11-19-2011, 06:40 PM
This Paul supporter is a "nice solid person" and a great representation for the good doctor. I bet he's winning a lot of hearts and minds of people who aren't caught up in the right left paradigm.

Although, he needs an "End the Fed" sign, not Ron Paul.

chris41336
11-19-2011, 06:40 PM
I'm not arguing to oppose OWS, I just think that our support should be "cautious". I mean the grassroots should be open about it, but Paul himself should remain cautious. I shuold have made that more clear.

JoshS
11-19-2011, 06:41 PM
But by all means, continue playing into the divide and conquer mentality they have laid out so conveniently for you.

69360
11-19-2011, 06:41 PM
Shut. Up.

Why he's right. Grandmother in IA and NH hate this crap, it's toxic.

unknown
11-19-2011, 06:42 PM
Associating RP with the Occupy movement is a bad idea. We are trying to win a Republican election here.

I get what youre saying because we need to focus on the Republican primaries, but if we can recruit more people its only a good thing. Plus, independents are important. Its important to bring the truth to everyone!

JoshS
11-19-2011, 06:42 PM
I'm not arguing to oppose OWS, I just think that our support should be "cautious". I mean the grassroots should be open about it, but Paul himself should remain cautious. I shuold have made that more clear.

Ok then but that's not what Zanzibar was talking about. That crooked mentality annoys me.

JoshS
11-19-2011, 06:43 PM
Why he's right. Grandmother in IA and NH hate this crap, it's toxic.

Ok? Then she won't be down there to see the Ron Paul supporters will she?

69360
11-19-2011, 06:43 PM
I get what youre saying because we need to focus on the Republican primaries, but if we can recruit more people its only a good thing. Plus, independents are important. Its important to bring the truth to everyone!

Only 2% of the occupy people are registered GOP voters.

69360
11-19-2011, 06:44 PM
Ok? Then she won't be down there to see the Ron Paul supporters will she?

Think about what you just said. Television and the internet.

This stuff is no good for us, it's ending anyway so who cares?

Feelgood
11-19-2011, 06:46 PM
JoshS = plant

No real Ron Paul supporter could be so clueless. Seeing RP signs at occupy protests are bad, just plain bad.

If anyone knows how to get a hold of this guy, tell him to GTFO and stop pimpin RP, he is making us look bad.

JoshS
11-19-2011, 06:48 PM
Clearly you all have no idea how much of RP's base is converted Democrats and Independents. Do your homework.

69360
11-19-2011, 06:48 PM
JoshS = plant

No real Ron Paul supporter could be so clueless. Seeing RP signs at occupy protests are bad, just plain bad.

If anyone knows how to get a hold of this guy, tell him to GTFO and stop pimpin RP, he is making us look bad.

Eh, he could just not get it yet.

The OWS and us have common complaints. The solutions we want are totally different and not compatible. They want big government, we want liberty.

JoshS
11-19-2011, 06:49 PM
They don't know what they want.

69360
11-19-2011, 06:51 PM
They don't know what they want.

Sure they do, they want the government to fix everything for them.

Phil
11-19-2011, 06:51 PM
I agree that we should have Ron Paul supporters educating the protesters, but not actually supporting the protest.

JoshS
11-19-2011, 06:52 PM
OWS isn't a leftist movement, that's a created appearance by the MSM to divvy the people further, you suckers take the bait. It's an economic justice movement, some people there are socialists, some are capitalists but it started because people don't like the crony-capitalism in this country, educating them would be the best route.

Didn't know RP supporters were this secluded. Yikes.

JoshS
11-19-2011, 06:54 PM
The protest is for economic justice, everyone in this country should support it regardless of political views. Yes it's been co-opted, how does that change the initial message?

Have you guys ever seen Schiff's video of OWS, 90% of everyone he talks to is pro-capitalism.

TheDrakeMan
11-19-2011, 06:54 PM
Seeing as how there are murders, rapes, riots, property damage, and other barbaric behavior occurring in this Occupy movement, I think it would be a dumb idea to associate Ron Paul with it. It is funny though how Progressives criticized the Tea Party for yelling at politicians, but OWS is able to get away with everything. rofl

specsaregood
11-19-2011, 06:56 PM
JoshS = plant
No real Ron Paul supporter could be so clueless. Seeing RP signs at occupy protests are bad, just plain bad.
If anyone knows how to get a hold of this guy, tell him to GTFO and stop pimpin RP, he is making us look bad.

Feelgood = authoritarian plant.
No real Ron Paul supporter would discourage activism and education. Dr. Paul goes places that don't play well to traditional GOP, I don't see why his supporters shouldnt as well.

klamath
11-19-2011, 06:57 PM
By far the majority of OWS are neomarxists. Sure they have the same complaints as us. Nobody likes the economy the way it is. Only problem is the want marxism to solve the economic problem.

JoshS
11-19-2011, 06:57 PM
And there it is, the - Occupy vs. Tea Party mantra the MSM has packaged up for you.

Glad to see you trust them on everything not Ron Paul.

:rolleyes:

69360
11-19-2011, 07:03 PM
And there it is, the - Occupy vs. Tea Party mantra the MSM has packaged up for you.

Glad to see you trust them on everything not Ron Paul.

:rolleyes:


No, we've listened to the protesters. Their solutions are contrary to ours. Our goals are not compatible.

JoshS
11-19-2011, 07:07 PM
Dude, have you ever been to a protest? I live in Portland, probably as left as you can get, and people there are very open to the message of Liberty. Guess what? I didn't end up on the news or internet where your grandma could see either. The people there need education, they're looking for economic answers and who supplies those better than OUR GUY, it's practically a physical movement tailored to hear our message.

Stop generalizing a very large group of your fellow Americans into a small bubble that you deem 'not compatible' with Ron Paul and liberty.

specsaregood
11-19-2011, 07:08 PM
No, we've listened to the protesters. Their solutions are contrary to ours. Our goals are not compatible.
Yes, because they are not individuals with different goals, thought processes and ideals. They are borg. please.

Galileo Galilei
11-19-2011, 07:14 PM
Associating RP with the Occupy movement is a bad idea. We are trying to win a Republican election here.

Speaking as an experienced campaign strategist, if all the opposition has is to criticize your supporters, rather than your ideas or the candidate himself, that is the ultimate sign of desperation. Such a tactic is usually the last ditch effort before defeat.

specsaregood
11-19-2011, 07:19 PM
The people there need education, they're looking for economic answers and who supplies those better than OUR GUY, it's practically a physical movement tailored to hear our message.

Stop generalizing a very large group of your fellow Americans into a small bubble that you deem 'not compatible' with Ron Paul and liberty.

And to back that statement up, anybody that disagrees should go listen to the last caller of the Mickelson interview Dr. Paul did on yesterday. It was a lifelong democrat, the caller. go listen to what he had to say about dr. paul and how he caused the caller to question and reconsider his own beliefs.

Nate
11-19-2011, 07:19 PM
Feelgood = authoritarian plant.
No real Ron Paul supporter would discourage activism and education. Dr. Paul goes places that don't play well to traditional GOP, I don't see why his supporters shouldnt as well.

+rep

I'm getting a bit tired of this red team blue team crap I've been seeing around here lately. The FUD campaign being run here toward anything perceived to be "leftist" is counter productive. We should take every opportunity available to educate anybody left or right, democrat or republican, liberal or conservative, OCCUPY or TEA PARTY. In order to win this thing we need to build a broad coalition of anybody who will listen. This BS culture war has got to go, it's destroying this country. Before the whole OWS vs Tea Party crap recently this place was above this retarded counter productive BS.

69360
11-19-2011, 07:28 PM
Reality here people.

We just watched Cain and the Grinch trash OWS to thunderous applause in Iowa.

2% of OWS is registered GOP.

Simple math and common sense says associating with them is not favorable to winning a GOP primary.

The tiny gains in supporters from the OWS group is massively decisively offset by the overwhelming disgust the GOP has for them.

JoshS
11-19-2011, 07:33 PM
So you pretty much just ignored any argument to the contrary and repeated yourself. Nice.

I'll repeat myself like you do then.

Clearly you don't know how much of RP's base is converted Democrats and Independents.

You're buying into divide and conquer.

WarNoMore
11-19-2011, 07:44 PM
OWS is low down on the priority lists. They're insignificant at this point. And it seems just as many dislike the movement since they're comfortable with their own lives and see OWS as a disturbance to their lives or the lives of others. Probably not the best idea to associate that movement with Ron Paul, people can go down to those places and talk about Paul and his platform, but there are better things we can do to accomplish what we want to accomplish. We've got a republican nomination to win, and I just don't see OWS as the ideal place to get GOP voters. Paul supporters? Maybe, but GOP voters in the primaries? I don't think so.

69360
11-19-2011, 07:44 PM
The RP base is 10% the GOP. This is a GOP primary not a general election. We have to get the rest of the GOP onboard to win this primary. You won't do it by associating with OWS which is held in great contempt by 90% of the GOP.

JoshS
11-19-2011, 07:45 PM
i never said OWS should be priority 1.

secondly i'm done responding.

helpless.

Galileo Galilei
11-19-2011, 07:56 PM
The RP base is 10% the GOP. This is a GOP primary not a general election. We have to get the rest of the GOP onboard to win this primary. You won't do it by associating with OWS which is held in great contempt by 90% of the GOP.

what about homeschoolers for Ron Paul? Won't associating with homeschoolers upset those that use the public schools? Do you understand that if Paul's opponents use "association" arguments as their top priority, Paul will win the election. Because then they will be refraining from less effective advertising.

69360
11-19-2011, 08:04 PM
what about homeschoolers for Ron Paul? Won't associating with homeschoolers upset those that use the public schools? Do you understand that if Paul's opponents use "association" arguments as their top priority, Paul will win the election. Because then they will be refraining from less effective advertising.

You are strawmanning.

But anyway, the problem with your argument is that we know public schoolers in the GOP don't hold anything like the level of contempt that they do for OWS for homechoolers.

Occupy is toxic in the GOP.

Ron has practically no negative press right now. Let's keep it that way.

JoshS
11-19-2011, 08:07 PM
Ron has practically no negative press right now. Let's keep it that way.

Yet you ignore people have been touting RP since the inception of OWS and he hasn't received any negative press.

Galileo Galilei
11-19-2011, 08:12 PM
You are strawmanning.

But anyway, the problem with your argument is that we know public schoolers in the GOP don't hold anything like the level of contempt that they do for OWS for homechoolers.

Occupy is toxic in the GOP.

Ron has practically no negative press right now. Let's keep it that way.

So Paul would have to drop his audit & end the Fed position? Because if he doesn't, millions of OWS people will continue to support Ron Paul.

69360
11-19-2011, 08:12 PM
Yet you ignore people have been touting RP since the inception of OWS and he hasn't received any negative press.

Because we've worked hard to tell people not to get involved with it in RP gear, so very few have.

Somebody had a RP tent in Philly, they were robbed and somebody took a dump in the tent.

All it'll take is one MSM story of somebody in a RP shirt fighting with the cops and it goes downhill from there.

Look, I've laid out all the reasons why this is bad and why there is just about nothing to gain, I don't know what else to tell you.

69360
11-19-2011, 08:13 PM
So Paul would have to drop his audit & end the Fed position? Because if he doesn't, millions of OWS people will continue to support Ron Paul.

Another strawman.

You don't support your position with facts.

JoshS
11-19-2011, 08:15 PM
You don't understand how your mentality is toxic to this country.

GunnyFreedom
11-19-2011, 08:18 PM
Take it for what it's worth, but I just did a Ron Paul outreach out by Elon College today, and I had one of my strong supporters come up to me and tell me that one of the big reasons her GOP circle won't support Ron Paul is "because he's wrapped up in this occupy stuff." So I said "no he's not, a couple of his supporters are just down there trying to convert the occupy people." She replied, "Yeah I know the media probably just shows the one Ron Paul guy down there to make him look bad, but my people refuse to support Ron Paul because of it."

This was someone I had already converted. Now she's backing off faster than a horse from a rattlesnake.

So I know it's just anecdotal, but all y'all just dismissing it as irrelevant shouldn't be so quick to dismiss it. I'm seeing it in the real world here.

Galileo Galilei
11-19-2011, 08:19 PM
Another strawman.

You don't support your position with facts.

The Fed is not a strawman, it is a serious issue raised by Ron Paul.

JoshS
11-19-2011, 08:20 PM
You associate with the lowest common denominator.

GunnyFreedom
11-19-2011, 08:22 PM
You associate with the lowest common denominator.

If you mean "voters," then I agree.

ETA -- but calling someone who has donated her time and money to my campaign is not exactly the lowest common denominator.

JoshS
11-19-2011, 08:26 PM
Sorry if that was offensive, I apologize. I just can't respect people whose votes are dictated by foolishness rather than policy and integrity.

Moo2400
11-19-2011, 08:26 PM
I think Ron Paul's current position with the Occupy Wall Street protests is perfect. He understands and sympathizes with their frustrations, and he supports the ones who are protesting crony capitalism and the Federal Reserve but not the ones who are protesting capitalism itself. I don't think it's a bad thing if Ron Paul supporters go out to the OWS protests and try to spread the message - it's hardly as if the media would be able to spin it as if Ron Paul is in support of socialism and such things at this point in time. He straddles the line perfectly and it appears reasonable to those sympathetic and against the OWS protests alike, I don't see why he should do more or less.

69360
11-19-2011, 08:28 PM
The Fed is not a strawman, it is a serious issue raised by Ron Paul.


A straw man is a component of an argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position, twisting his words or by means of [false] assumptions.[1] To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.[1][2] Generally, the straw man is a highly exaggerated[citation needed] or over-simplified version of the opponent's original statement, which has been distorted to the point of absurdity. This exaggerated or distorted statement is thus easily argued against, but is a misrepresentation of the opponent's actual statement.


You associate with the lowest common denominator.

You are completely out of touch with GOP reality.

This is the reality of the situaiton-

http://news.yahoo.com/republicans-blast-occupy-movement-debate-233723604.html


Republicans candidates vying for their party's nomination lambasted the Occupy Wall Street movement on Saturday, at a debate organized by Christian groups.

"Go get a job right after you take a bath," Newt Gingrich told the audience at the "Thanksgiving Family Forum," when asked about activists protesting over the last two months in major US cities including New York and Washington.

The protesters seek an overhaul to what they see as major socioeconomic inequalities fostered by mainstream US politics and systems of finance.

Another frontrunner in the race, former pizza boss Herman Cain, slammed the OWS movement by claiming that "freedom without responsibility is immoral."

The forum, organized by a number of right-wing Christian organizations, was attended by other candidates Michele Bachmann, Rick Perry, Ron Paul, and Rick Santorum, were present Saturday to this discussion.

Only Mitt Romney and Jon Huntsman, both Mormons and more moderate candidates, did not attend.

Iowa is a key state for the Republican primary, as it holds the first in a series of primary votes on January 3, in the battle to face incumbent Barack Obama in the general election next November.


See the facts? The GOP does not like OWS. We need the GOP to win. Yet you insist that we associate with a movement that has only 2% of its members registerd GOP primary voters?

GunnyFreedom
11-19-2011, 08:28 PM
Sorry if that was offensive, I apologize. I just can't respect people whose votes are dictated by foolishness rather than policy and integrity.

About 90% of voters are dictated by foolishness. If we had a decade for education, great. But we don't. We have to play the hand we are dealt.

specsaregood
11-19-2011, 08:33 PM
About 90% of voters are dictated by foolishness. If we had a decade for education, great. But we don't. We have to play the hand we are dealt.

And in the end, it doesn't matter what anybody here wants. There will be RP supporters at OWS, so figure out how to deal with it because you can't stop it.

PaulConventionWV
11-19-2011, 08:34 PM
That's the most backward line of thought I've ever heard. This isn't a conventional campaign that Ron is running, if he wins it would be a political paradigm shift. He won't win through conventional methods and Ron himself has said the grassroots should do whatever they want to do to support him. The media isn't going to give him attention, we need to create the attention ourselves through our own means.

Besides people have been touting Ron Paul at OWS since it's beginning and he has no bad label because of it, only more votes from newly awakened folks looking for economic justice.

You are incredibly naive.

GunnyFreedom
11-19-2011, 08:34 PM
And in the end, it doesn't matter what anybody here wants. There will be RP supporters at OWS, so figure out how to deal with it because you can't stop it.

Indeed. If there is one thing we learned in 2008, Ron Paul people do what they want to and damn anybody who tries to tell em different. ;)

JoshS
11-19-2011, 08:36 PM
What you all aren't understanding though is RP supporters at OWS has hurt no one and has only helped our cause. The media hasn't portrayed Ron as the OWS candidate. How could it hurt to expand our base through educating the psuedo-socialists there?

Our base has plenty of converted socialists, democrats, independents...whatever label you'd like to attribute to OWS.

PaulConventionWV
11-19-2011, 08:37 PM
They don't know what they want.

How do you know that?

JoshS
11-19-2011, 08:40 PM
How do you know that?

Because you can't generalize a large group of people who are protesting economic injustice. They aren't 'all anything', they're people looking for a change in monetary policy, that's the root of it.

PaulConventionWV
11-19-2011, 08:47 PM
You don't understand how your mentality is toxic to this country.

Apparently, you don't understand much of anything. I cannot believe the simple-mindedness of you people.

JoshS
11-19-2011, 08:50 PM
Apparently, you don't understand much of anything. I cannot believe the simple-mindedness of you people.

At least you have a constructive argument. Oh and you skipped my post directly answering your question.



And I'm simple-minded. :rolleyes:

Galileo Galilei
11-19-2011, 08:51 PM
You are completely out of touch with GOP reality.

This is the reality of the situaiton-

http://news.yahoo.com/republicans-blast-occupy-movement-debate-233723604.html



See the facts? The GOP does not like OWS. We need the GOP to win. Yet you insist that we associate with a movement that has only 2% of its members registerd GOP primary voters?

2% more in Paul's poll numbers may very well be the margin of victory.

JoshS
11-19-2011, 08:53 PM
69360 will continue to ignore the fact that OWS has caused no negative publicity and has only converted ex-socialists, democrats, etc. His 2% argument is laughable, as if Paul's voters are all GOP'rs....and we're out of touch with reality.

lol

PaulConventionWV
11-19-2011, 08:53 PM
Because you can't generalize a large group of people who are protesting economic injustice. They aren't 'all anything', they're people looking for a change in monetary policy, that's the root of it.

So how do you know they don't know? I'm sorry, but you make it seem like literally every person in OWS doesn't know what they want and is a clean slate for RP supporters to write on. That's not the way it is, sorry to say. I really shouldn't have to tell you that.

PaulConventionWV
11-19-2011, 08:54 PM
At least you have a constructive argument. Oh and you skipped my post directly answering your question.



And I'm simple-minded. :rolleyes:

I was reading through the thread, so I responded to things before I got to your latest post. Jeez lay off.

PaulConventionWV
11-19-2011, 08:56 PM
2% more in Paul's poll numbers may very well be the margin of victory.

Good luck finding them. Statistically, it's much more practical to target a larger audience so you have a much bigger range for success. Why you are suggesting we go for the tiny audience just because they are there is beyond me. It is statistically absurd to suggest that is a good strategy for finding supporters. You want to target the many, not the few.

JoshS
11-19-2011, 08:58 PM
So how do you know they don't know? I'm sorry, but you make it seem like literally every person in OWS doesn't know what they want and is a clean slate for RP supporters to write on. That's not the way it is, sorry to say. I really shouldn't have to tell you that.

I know they don't because I live next door to Occupy Portland, notoriously known for being the most lefty of the OWS protests, let me tell you, plenty of capitalists there. I fully recognize that there are socialists there as well but they couldn't tell you the direct steps that need to/they want to be taken. They just need education and to understand we don't live with capitalism, but crony. On the contrary your sensationalist side of the debate has (even in this thread) declared the movement strictly Marxists/Socialists. This is clearly divide and conquer at it's best.

AGAIN I ask how could it POSSIBLY hurt to go to any OWS movement and talk to people about liberty?

GunnyFreedom
11-19-2011, 08:58 PM
69360 will continue to ignore the fact that OWS has caused no negative publicity and has only converted ex-socialists, democrats, etc. His 2% argument is laughable, as if Paul's voters are all GOP'rs....and we're out of touch with reality.

lol

Well, the known GOP primary voters that we actually lost, as I recounted earlier in the thread, had heard about it on the news.

PaulConventionWV
11-19-2011, 08:59 PM
69360 will continue to ignore the fact that OWS has caused no negative publicity and has only converted ex-socialists, democrats, etc. His 2% argument is laughable, as if Paul's voters are all GOP'rs....and we're out of touch with reality.

lol

Did you not see Gunny Freedom's post about people who accused RP of being "tied up in the whole Occupy thing"? Converted RP supporters ARE backing away from it because of our perceived association with it.

Even if you think you can convert the 2% GOPers, you might un-convert a ton more outside of the movement. Why not target the larger audience outside of the movement? That makes much more sense.

69360
11-19-2011, 09:00 PM
2% more in Paul's poll numbers may very well be the margin of victory.

There's what a few thousand people at these protests?

You want to gain 2% of a few thousand at the risk of alienating the mainstream GOP voters we need to win this primary?

Ever hear of risk aversion?

PaulConventionWV
11-19-2011, 09:01 PM
I know they don't because I live next door to Occupy Portland, notoriously known for being the most lefty of the OWS protests, let me tell you, plenty of capitalists there. I fully recognize that there are socialists there as well but they couldn't tell you the direct steps that need to/they want to be taken. They just need education and to understand we don't live with capitalism, but crony. On the contrary your sensationalist side of the debate has (even in this thread) declared the movement strictly Marxists/Socialists. This is clearly divide and conquer at it's best.

AGAIN I ask how could it POSSIBLY hurt to go to any OWS movement and talk to people about liberty?

If you want to go talk to people at the protests one-on-one, it is your perfect right to do so. I don't care what you do, just don't try to associate RP with the protests, and don't try to participate in the protests as if it were favorable to a liberty message. It will come off badly. Just be discreet, is all.

JoshS
11-19-2011, 09:01 PM
Did you not see Gunny Freedom's post about people who accused RP of being "tied up in the whole Occupy thing"? Converted RP supporters ARE backing away from it because of our perceived association with it.

Even if you think you can convert the 2% GOPers, you might un-convert a ton more outside of the movement. Why not target the larger audience outside of the movement? That makes much more sense.

That's anecdotal and why not target BOTH?

69360
11-19-2011, 09:01 PM
AGAIN I ask how could it POSSIBLY hurt to go to any OWS movement and talk to people about liberty?

Do what you want. Leave your RP gear at home. Is that so hard to understand?

JoshS
11-19-2011, 09:03 PM
If you want to go talk to people at the protests one-on-one, it is your perfect right to do so. I don't care what you do, just don't try to associate RP with the protests, and don't try to participate in the protests as if it were favorable to a liberty message. It will come off badly. Just be discreet, is all.

Going to a protest and talking about Ron Paul is in no way associating Ron Paul with movement. Are you guys serious?

JoshS
11-19-2011, 09:03 PM
Do what you want. Leave your RP gear at home. Is that so hard to understand?

Yes. It is.

69360
11-19-2011, 09:04 PM
Yes. It is.

Then there's no hope for you. This discussion is over, I tried.

JoshS
11-19-2011, 09:07 PM
You live in fear.

I show up in an RP shirt, HOW DOES THAT ASSOCIATE RON PAUL WITH THE MOVEMENT?

JoshS
11-19-2011, 09:11 PM
I'll make sure I don't show up with my Cleveland Browns gear too, wouldn't want them getting a bad rep.

Jeremy
11-19-2011, 09:11 PM
Seems like a nice guy.

GunnyFreedom
11-19-2011, 09:12 PM
If you want to go talk to people at the protests one-on-one, it is your perfect right to do so. I don't care what you do, just don't try to associate RP with the protests, and don't try to participate in the protests as if it were favorable to a liberty message. It will come off badly. Just be discreet, is all.


Do what you want. Leave your RP gear at home. Is that so hard to understand?

These.

I have passionately defended the right of the OWS to protest amongst Republicans and Tea Partiers. I stood up for Scott Olsen where people in NC who supported me could see it, ans have been chastised for it and refused to back down. "I do not agree with what you are saying, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

The math is pretty simple and straightforward. One certain GOP primary voter is worth 10 'maybe' primary voters, and worth 100 'maybe I will reregister so that I can vote' primary voters. Turn off 5 known GOP primary voters who have indicated support for Paul, you have to make it up with 500 OWS conversions because only 1% of them will reregister, show up, and vote.

But Specs is right -- Paulers do what they want and don't give a damn what anybody else says or knows. Nobody here is going to change their minds, we just need to figure out how to overcome it, like the newsletters.

I suggest the approach, "No, they weren't there to support those socialists, they were trying to convert them to free market economics and principled republicanism! Isn't that what Republican outreach is all about?"

Hopefully it will be effective.

JoshS
11-19-2011, 09:14 PM
I suggest the approach, "No, they weren't there to support those socialists, they were trying to convert them to free market economics and principled republicanism! Isn't that what Republican outreach is all about?"


And you'll be telling the truth!

GunnyFreedom
11-19-2011, 09:31 PM
And you'll be telling the truth!

You don't honestly believe that 'truth' matters to voters in any way, shape, or form, do you?

Birdlady
11-19-2011, 09:38 PM
Rather than telling people what NOT to do, I think we should start enlightening those who are ignorant and intolerant to other people's views and thoughts. But the problem is that the enlightening needs to start here in our movement. There are lots of judgmental, intolerant people in the freedom movement. We want to legalize drugs and let people live as they want, but then in the same breath we don't? what? Only if they agree with us of course! Some of you honestly come off as control freaks. :(

If there really are voters upset about RP supporters being at OWS, then I'd love to ask them why? What does it matter to them if someone is at an OWS rally. How is that hurting them personally in any way at all? These people are simply trying to recruit new support into the freedom movement and have their views heard. There is so much fear of other people's views and that's what needs to stop. We are so afraid of failure and opposition, that we'd rather do nothing at all.

I personally think anyone saying they won't support RP because his supporters are at the OWS protests are just using it as an easy excuse to avoid intellectual debate on the facts. It's much easier to just say "Oh I refuse to support RP because his suits don't fit" or "Ron Paul is too old." Instead of saying, "I like the wars, so I can't vote RP." I really think that's what is going on with some voters.

It's an easy cop out to blame OWS. Gotta love that left/right paradigm. Oh well this is like beating a dead horse at this point. Trolls suckered me in. :)

TheBlackPeterSchiff
11-19-2011, 10:31 PM
I do think its smart to not go out there with a "Vote for Ron Paul" sign, I do think its smart to go out there as a freedom lover and trying to educate those who attack the symptoms and not the cause. A lot of those people just havent been presented with the facts and ideas of liberty.

Galileo Galilei
11-19-2011, 10:45 PM
Good luck finding them. Statistically, it's much more practical to target a larger audience so you have a much bigger range for success. Why you are suggesting we go for the tiny audience just because they are there is beyond me. It is statistically absurd to suggest that is a good strategy for finding supporters. You want to target the many, not the few.

OWS is not being targeted. It is supplementary by left leaning Paul supporters. Better to send left leaning Paul supporters to OWS than to a college republican rally where they may irritate the faithful.

GunnyFreedom
11-19-2011, 10:50 PM
OWS is not being targeted. It is supplementary by left leaning Paul supporters. Better to send left leaning Paul supporters to OWS than to a college republican rally where they may irritate the faithful.

See, I agree with this. Just do everything possible to avoid giving the media ammunition to use against Paul in a Republican primary. Handing the enemy ammunition is never a winning strategy.

Galileo Galilei
11-19-2011, 11:10 PM
See, I agree with this. Just do everything possible to avoid giving the media ammunition to use against Paul in a Republican primary. Handing the enemy ammunition is never a winning strategy.

You are the one giving ammunition. If left leaning Paul supporters do not go to left leaning events, then they will end up at right-leaning events, where they could cause a spectacle and embarrass Paul. It is better that leftist Paul supporters go to OWS, and the right wingers go to the tea party.

GunnyFreedom
11-19-2011, 11:13 PM
You are the one giving ammunition. If left leaning Paul supporters do not go to left leaning events, then they will end up at right-leaning events, where they could cause a spectacle and embarrass Paul. It is better that leftist Paul supporters go to OWS, and the right wingers go to the tea party.

Not much on reading comprehension, eh?

Galileo Galilei
11-19-2011, 11:28 PM
Not much on reading comprehension, eh?

Most people get it that people at OWS oppose the Federal reserve banking system, so that's why some people there might like Ron Paul. You might not get it, but the voters do.

GunnyFreedom
11-19-2011, 11:32 PM
Most people get it that people at OWS oppose the Federal reserve banking system, so that's why some people there might like Ron Paul. You might not get it, but the voters do.

Are you just neglecting to read what you respond to, or what? Do I need to try other languages? Or do you just have you mind set on "antagonistic" and merely overlook anything that would dissuade you from that course?

Galileo Galilei
11-19-2011, 11:46 PM
Are you just neglecting to read what you respond to, or what? Do I need to try other languages? Or do you just have you mind set on "antagonistic" and merely overlook anything that would dissuade you from that course?

Fox News already has stock footage of Ron Paul signs at OWS. I have already explained to you that "association" techniques are the weakest of all advertising techniques, usually the last stop before electoral defeat.

If suddenly, the mass media is inundated with graphic images of 'End the Fed' signs at OWS, the world will not end.

GunnyFreedom
11-19-2011, 11:52 PM
smh