Copper pennies vs copper bullion.

[xFiFtyOnE]

I don't understand why all these bullion websites and ebay are charging insane premiums for copper per ounce in rounds and bars. I've seen them priced as high as 50 times the spot price for copper. I don't understand why the copper pennies don't seem to even get to spot price (or 95% of it) most of the time. I wonder what the deal is. It seems like anyone trying to get more bang for the buck in copper investing would obviously opt for the pennies. Am I missing something?

[Johnnybags]

No, you are missing nothing but the fact it cost money to melt pennies back into a bullion bar. Buy Nickels, save nickels etc, they have been at intrinsic metal content or above for years.

[fisharmor]

Copper is nice because you don't have to be as picky with how you melt it as you are with brass - if you hit brass with a torch, you'll end up vaporizing some of the zinc, and besides ruining the material, too much vaprous zinc oxide gives you metal fume fever.
I haven't ordered my scale yet but when I do I'm going to be sure to test how much copper you lose from oxidation from a torch: I'm not sure right now.
The PITA about copper is that it looks like it goes through a lot of phase transition when it cools. You can watch the surface warp as it solidifies in an open mold.
I'm reading that gravity casting in a 2-part mold may not produce great results either, probably for that same reason.

Long story short, based on what I've been playing with, it may be technically very difficult to produce an exact mass with regular volume. I'm pretty sure silver and gold are much more forgiving (which I believe owes in part to why it's popular for jewelry).

I haven't played with pennies yet - and for the benefit of you g-men reading this, I'm not going to, either. I'm only reclaiming windings and plumbing, which are all extruded hot as opposed to melted.
I suspect old pennies might have that non-copper content in order to get around some of the physical limitations of straight copper.

[Seraphim]

I'd suggest just investing in the actual commodity.

[Steven Douglas]

I don't understand why all these bullion websites and ebay are charging insane premiums for copper per ounce in rounds and bars. I've seen them priced as high as 50 times the spot price for copper. I don't understand why the copper pennies don't seem to even get to spot price (or 95% of it) most of the time. I wonder what the deal is. It seems like anyone trying to get more bang for the buck in copper investing would obviously opt for the pennies. Am I missing something?

Those charging insane premiums for rounds and bars are hoping to sell to speculators on the "value added" maximum liquidity of copper when sold as a ready-to-use commodity. It's a scam with its own little bubble attached. Copper pennies don't come with that "added value" liquidity illusion. If the day ever comes (and I believe it will, just not today) where there is a physical copper shortage, the value of copper will level out to match copper in all its forms.

There is also a common misconception (a persistent myth, really) about the commodity content in all coins - namely, that it is against the law to melt them down. That is always from a misreading and misunderstanding of coinage laws, and is simply not true, as that would defeat the purpose of intrinsically valued coinage in the first place. However, because that is a widely held belief, it relegates copper pennies to a single usage. What keeps them from dropping to face value relative to the fiat currency, and from deviating from spot values in any substantial way: the other knowledge that it really is a store of intrinsic value. Those who don't believe they can melt it down know also that somebody might. And if that is the case, you know you can always get somewhere around spot for it.

I don't trust paper derivatives of any kind, so I wouldn't bother with stocks, but that's just me. If I bought it on the commodities market, it would only be with the option to take delivery - and I would.

[Tonewah]

There is also a common misconception (a persistent myth, really) about the commodity content in all coins - namely, that it is against the law to melt them down. That is always from a misreading and misunderstanding of coinage laws, and is simply not true, as that would defeat the purpose of intrinsically valued coinage in the first place.

That's exactly right. The US Mint says once you possess a coin it is yours to do with as you please. That's why there are all sorts of trinkets made with coins. The only thing you CAN'T do is try to pass one coin off as another of greater value. That's fraud and counterfeiting.

[fisharmor]

TThere is also a common misconception (a persistent myth, really) about the commodity content in all coins - namely, that it is against the law to melt them down.

http://www.usmint.gov/pressroom/?action=press_release&ID=724

Is it "against the law"? No, not in the sense that there actually is... a law. There seem to be rule-of-law-violating regulations though.
But If some bureaucrat found out you were doing it, you can still probably count on a nightstick shampoo, followed by a free orange wardrobe.

[KCIndy]

Pennies (cents, technically) have not been made of copper since 1982. :(

[Athan]

Yes, but rule of thumb is that ALL 1981 pennies and older are all copper. Only a percentage of 1982 pennies are copper.

I do collect those and nickels. Along with silver and some gold. I'm not worried about my wealth. I'm worried about having a wealth generator (like dividens) accessible.

[xFiFtyOnE]

http://www.usatoday.com/money/2006-12-14-melting-ban-usat_x.htm

Here is an article that says it was made illegal to melt and/or ship coins out of the U.S. in 2006.

Edit: Didn't realize fisharmor posted something similar. ;P

[Becker]

its illegal to melt copper pennies, so they're worth only face value until you can melt them.

But if you wish to buy them, go to http://portlandmint.com

[Becker]

http://www.usatoday.com/money/2006-12-14-melting-ban-usat_x.htm

Here is an article that says it was made illegal to melt and/or ship coins out of the U.S. in 2006.

Edit: Didn't realize fisharmor posted something similar. ;P

yes, that's basically why. Copper is so cheap, that it takes up more space than it's worth. (doesn't stop people from stealing it though)

[archangel689]

Copper Pipe.

[Steven Douglas]

its illegal to melt copper pennies...

Source please?

[Becker]

Source please?

http://www.usmint.gov/pressroom/index.cfm?action=press_release&ID=724

this is not an actual law, and doesn't specify how it's going to be enforced... but feel free to take your chances, I know it doesn't make me enough money to be worth it.