Law professor says sympathy for American troops is not ‘rational’

[123tim]

Law professor says sympathy for American troops is not ‘rational’
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/upshot/law-professor-says-sympathy-american-troops-not-rational-220243783.html


Never write an email that you wouldn't be OK with the whole world reading. A professor from Suffolk University Law School in Boston is experiencing why it is important to remember that rule of thumb.

Michael Avery composed a five-paragraph message to his colleagues in response to a campus-wide drive for care packages for American troops stationed overseas. In his email, Avery wrote that it is "shameful that it is perceived as legitimate to solicit in an academic institution for support for men and women who have gone overseas to kill other human beings." Avery specializes in constitutional law.

Avery's email also included at least one other controversial remark: Sympathy for American troops, he wrote, is "not particularly rational in today's world."

Fox News spoke with Paul Spera, a past commander-in-chief of the Veterans of Foreign Wars. Spera called Avery's comments "shameful" and "despicable." Spera argued that the men and women who receive such care packages are fighting "for the freedom that this man (Avery) is abusing."

Sympathy? Yes.
(Edited) I hope that a lot joined the military to protect our Constitution. I feel sympathy for them.
Support? I want to support them by bringing them home.

[Sola_Fide]

In b4 can of worms

[123tim]

In b4 can of worms
I think that you're right.
I even hesitated to post this article.
I decided that this would be the best way to get my 2cents in.

[cindy25]

the military, the police, the firemen have always been granted special privileges

in a way these are jobs people choose to do. there are no special discounts for taxi drivers, coal miners or 7-11 clerks

[123tim]

the military, the police, the firemen have always been granted special privileges

in a way these are jobs people choose to do. there are no special discounts for taxi drivers, coal miners or 7-11 clerks

I edited my post after Cindy wrote this. This may make her post sound bad because of my edit. Don't flame her for this.
I tend to agree with her.

[ExPatPaki]

You gotta fight for our freedom to watch football and drink beer by killing brown people.

[pcosmar]

Freedoms I Wish the Military Were Defending
http://lewrockwell.com/vance/vance256.html

[fisharmor]

You gotta fight for our freedom to watch football and drink beer by killing brown people.

I could not have encapsulated this idea of supporting the troops better.
Even soviet Russia allowed its citizens to drink and watch sports.
What it didn't allow them to do was make the sort of comments this professor seems to be in trouble for making.

War is Peace.
Freedom is Slavery.
Ignorance is Strength.

[AuH20]

You gotta fight for our freedom to watch football and drink beer by killing brown people.

You think these occupations are primarily about "killing brown people?" You're that deluded? It's about resource control and establishing a strategic hub.

[fisharmor]

You think these occupations are primarily about "killing brown people?" You're that deluded? It's about resource control and establishing a strategic hub.
I took what he wrote to be a satirical summation of the entire argument in favor of war.
Those are precisely the freedoms we're fighting for - not free speech, not gun ownership, not informed juries or privacy from state intrusion.
And the fighting, yes, boils down to killing brown people - and I'm not convinced that a majority of those who support the wars are all that uncomfortable with summing it up like that.

[ExPatPaki]

You think these occupations are primarily about "killing brown people?"

No, they're about defending my freedoms. :rolleyes:

[AuH20]

No, they're about defending my freedoms. :rolleyes:

It's none of the above. Neither the defense of "american freedom" or the sadistic "killing of brown people." You should read Brzezinski's Grand Chessboard to understand what this is primarily about.

[Todd]

It's none of the above. Neither the defense of "american freedom" or the sadistic "killing of brown people." You should read Brzezinski's Grand Chessboard to understand what this is primarily about.

Exactly...wars are never over what people say they are. They are over controlling resources and power structures.

That it just happens to be "brown people" in this century is incidental. People always demonize and dehumanize thier enemy.

White guys were okie dokie with killing each other for years over the same things.

[Seraphim]

I'd sympathize if they were drafted. They volunteered to go spread an empire. I feel worse for the woman and children (families) of the people who are over there.

The soldiers themselves? Not so much. YOU VOLUNTEERED. There is very little honourable about these wars, therefore volunteering for them is not honourable.

[echebota]

I'd sympathize if they were drafted. They volunteered to go spread an empire. I feel worse for the woman and children (families) of the people who are over there.

The soldiers themselves? Not so much. YOU VOLUNTEERED. There is very little honourable about these wars, therefore volunteering for them is not honourable.

Agreed

[Kade]

I took what he wrote to be a satirical summation of the entire argument in favor of war.
Those are precisely the freedoms we're fighting for - not free speech, not gun ownership, not informed juries or privacy from state intrusion.
And the fighting, yes, boils down to killing brown people - and I'm not convinced that a majority of those who support the wars are all that uncomfortable with summing it up like that.

Who are you? I like you. I like your posts.

[fisharmor]

Who are you? I like you. I like your posts.
Thanks! Though I feel the urge to respond with "I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led. And through the air. I am he that walks unseen."
Just a guy raising a family, living in Northern Virginia, living right under the belly of the dragon, looking for loose scales.

[jason43]

I'd sympathize if they were drafted. They volunteered to go spread an empire. I feel worse for the woman and children (families) of the people who are over there.

The soldiers themselves? Not so much. YOU VOLUNTEERED. There is very little honourable about these wars, therefore volunteering for them is not honourable.

Soldiers were all raised in a culture that praises militarism and is awash with propaganda that supports it. Note how the ones that are following politics are also donating to Ron Paul the most out of any of the candidates. Once they get there they have a reality check. I got one in Kosovo when I was in the Army years ago. They aren't better or worse than anyone else, they are simply products of their environments.

[oyarde]

the military, the police, the firemen have always been granted special privileges

in a way these are jobs people choose to do. there are no special discounts for taxi drivers, coal miners or 7-11 clerks Who the hell would want to be a 7 - 11 clerk ? , just sayin' :)

[oyarde]

Meh , screw that prof , I am sure his candy ass probably had an easier path to oppurtunity . If he wants to disagree with the wars , that is fine , picking on 18 yr old kids that accepted what they thought to be the only way they could help pay for education , find a job etc , is not fine . If he really wants to do something , spend his time putting research together to show the youngsters why it is better for them if they choose another path . What a pussy .Fuck him.

[heavenlyboy34]

Who the hell would want to be a 7 - 11 clerk ? , just sayin' :)
Nowadays, a lot of people would take that job-or just about any other job. ;)

[heavenlyboy34]

Meh , screw that prof , I am sure his candy ass probably had an easier path to oppurtunity . If he wants to disagree with the wars , that is fine , picking on 18 yr old kids that accepted what they thought to be the only way they could help pay for education , find a job etc , is not fine . If he really wants to do something , spend his time putting research together to show the youngsters why it is better for them if they choose another path . What a pussy .Fuck him.Food for thought:

Thank a Vet? (http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance216.html)

[Seraphim]

While it is true that ALL of us are heavily influenced by our environments, your argument is not complete.

We all have the ability to make conscious decisions. While I agree that MANY of the military folks come back HEAVILY against the wars (and that is GOOD) it does not change the fact that if you are going to volunteer into a position in which killing others is MANDATED...you are to blame if you end up volunteering for nothing short of a murdering racket.

It's that simple.

Better late then never though. Forgiveness is in the cards for those who return with enough insight to FIGHT the wars themselves and spread the message that THINGS ARE NOT THE WAY YOU ARE TOLD.

Personal responsibility/choice is just as important as environmental factors.

DECOMMISION STANDING ARMIES. LONG LIVE THE MILITIA.


Soldiers were all raised in a culture that praises militarism and is awash with propaganda that supports it. Note how the ones that are following politics are also donating to Ron Paul the most out of any of the candidates. Once they get there they have a reality check. I got one in Kosovo when I was in the Army years ago. They aren't better or worse than anyone else, they are simply products of their environments.

[oyarde]

Nowadays, a lot of people would take that job-or just about any other job. ;) I would do it to HB , if I needed to , not sure anyone picks that though as what they want to be when they grow up .

[Seraphim]

Unless you OWN the place.

Owning Mac's stores and 7-11's (corner stores) are profitable. Particular the ones with gas bars.


I would do it to HB , if I needed to , not sure anyone picks that though as what they want to be when they grow up .

[Soca Taliban]

I never quite understood why troops are to be looked at as heroes or be shown sympathy? They unjustly attacked and murdered individuals in a sovereign land(s).

[AFPVet]

Sympathy? Yes.
(Edited) I hope that a lot joined the military to protect our Constitution. I feel sympathy for them.
Support? I want to support them by bringing them home.

Amen!

[echebota]

Food for thought:

Thank a Vet? (http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance216.html)

Bump for the article - sums up my position nicely.

________________________________

For reasons I explained in "U.S. Presidents and Those Who Kill for Them," World War II marks the permanent establishment of the American military as the president's personal attack force to kill by his decree Koreans, Vietnamese, Laotians, Cambodians, Grenadians, Panamanians, Yugoslavs, Serbians, Afghans, Iraqis, Somalis, Yemenis, and Pakistanis. Next on the list is Iranians. Sometimes these presidential decrees are rubberstamped by a congressional authorization to use force, but they are always preceded by presidential lies and warmonger propaganda.

So why should a Vietnam veteran be proud? He was typically young, ignorant, deceived, and drafted. He may have fought obediently, valiantly, selflessly, and fearlessly, but since he had no business fighting in Vietnam in the first place, I have nothing to thank him for. And I certainly can't thank him for preventing the Viet Cong from turning America into a socialist republic. Besides, LBJ beat Ho Chi Minh to that anyway. Many Vietnam veterans have written me and expressed shame, remorse, anger, and resentment — not pride — for having been duped into going thousands of miles away from American soil to intervene in another country's civil war. In fact, I have found that it is those who are not Vietnam veterans who are the most vociferous defenders of the war in Vietnam.

The most undeserved and oftentimes disgusting outpouring of thankfulness I have ever seen is over those who have fought or are fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan. The praise and adoration of those fighting in "the front lines in the war on terror" reaches its apex on Veterans Day, which has become a day to defend U.S. wars and recognize all things military. These soldiers certainly have done nothing worthy of thanks. Sure, they have rebuilt infrastructure — after bombing it to smithereens. They no doubt removed a brutal dictator — and unleashed American brutality in the process. And yes, they have rescued orphan children — after blowing their parents and brothers and sisters to kingdom come.

What is there to thank our soldiers for? They are not defending our freedoms. They are not keeping us safe from our enemies. They are not protecting us from terrorists. They are not guaranteeing our First Amendment rights. They are not defending U.S. borders. They are not guarding U.S. shores. They are not patrolling U.S. coasts. They are not enforcing no-fly zones over U.S. skies. They are not fighting "over there" so we don't have to fight "over here." They are not avenging 9/11. They are not safeguarding the American way of life. Oh, and they are not ensuring that I have the liberty to write what I do about the military.

[Anti Federalist]

Thanks! Though I feel the urge to respond with "I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led. And through the air. I am he that walks unseen."
Just a guy raising a family, living in Northern Virginia, living right under the belly of the dragon, looking for loose scales.

Now you've done it...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC73PHdQX04

[Anti Federalist]

Who are you? I like you. I like your posts.

Kade!

How are you?

Hang around for a while.

[Anti Federalist]

Fox News spoke with Paul Spera, a past commander-in-chief of the Veterans of Foreign Wars. Spera called Avery's comments "shameful" and "despicable." Spera argued that the men and women who receive such care packages are fighting "for the freedom that this man (Avery) is abusing."

What freedoms are those?

The freedom to speak your mind?

The freedom to travel without being accosted?

There aren't many freedoms left that aren't subject to government oversight or restriction.

So what, exactly, are these freedoms you speak of Mr. Spera?

[Athan]

Probably liberal "living document" Constitutional law.

[123tim]

Kade!

How are you?

Hang around for a while.

Seems like old times. :)

Welcome back.

[Philhelm]

I never quite understood why troops are to be looked at as heroes or be shown sympathy? They unjustly attacked and murdered individuals in a sovereign land(s).

Probably WWII and America's emergence as a super-duper power. Combine that with a long-standing rhetoric for freedom and justice, and there you have it. I believe a lot of people really do think that blowing up sheep-herders makes us more free.

[Philhelm]

What freedoms are those?

The freedom to speak your mind?

The freedom to travel without being accosted?

There aren't many freedoms left that aren't subject to government oversight or restriction.

So what, exactly, are these freedoms you speak of Mr. Spera?

The more we're hated, the more free we are.

[heavenlyboy34]

Probably WWII and America's emergence as a super-duper power. Combine that with a long-standing rhetoric for freedom and justice, and there you have it. I believe a lot of people really do think that blowing up sheep-herders makes us more free.
Probably that^^ But a case could be made for WWI and its aftermath as well. :o

[Philhelm]

Probably that^^ But a case could be made for WWI and its aftermath as well. :o

Agreed, but in my mind, I consider post-WWII to be the defining moment.

[kylejack]

The troops fight to maintain the military industrial complex, and wars of acquisition for the United States and its' allies, rarely do they fight for our freedom.

[AFPVet]

The troops fight to maintain the military industrial complex, and wars of acquisition for the United States and its' allies, rarely do they fight for our freedom.

Nope... they are thinning our lines for a reason. They don't want our troops securing the borders... they want to thin our lines and break our military so that they can come in with the U.N.

[flightlesskiwi]

off topic, but vets and active duty members who support Ron Paul could, if they are thanked for their service, gently reply "if you really want to thank me for my service, help elect Ron Paul for President so those currently serving can uphold their oath to defend this nation, not the nations of Afghanistan, Iraq, and Libya."

just my $.02

[Feeding the Abscess]

Meh , screw that prof , I am sure his candy ass probably had an easier path to oppurtunity . If he wants to disagree with the wars , that is fine , picking on 18 yr old kids that accepted what they thought to be the only way they could help pay for education , find a job etc , is not fine . If he really wants to do something , spend his time putting research together to show the youngsters why it is better for them if they choose another path . What a pussy .Fuck him.

I knew many people who went into the military out of high school. I heard two reasons:

1. It's good money, better than I could get anywhere else right out of high school
2. I'm gonna shoot me some sand******s/towelheads/etc

Post 9/11, in southern California. Not exactly redneck central. I can't summon up much sympathy for number 1, and number 2 is worthy of contempt and outright condemnation.

[moderate libertarian]

If there was real "sympathy" for them among people, why such a large proportion of homeles in US are US military veterans?


Homeless in America: 1 in 4 are Vets - Military.com

Nov 8, 2007 WASHINGTON - Veterans make up ...

www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,155801,00.html

[kylejack]

If there was real "sympathy" for them among people, why such a large proportion of homeles in US are US military veterans?


Homeless in America: 1 in 4 are Vets - Military.com

Nov 8, 2007 WASHINGTON - Veterans make up ...

www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,155801,00.html
Yep. "Thank you for your service" when they're in their uniform coming home, but stepping over them on the sidewalk a few years later.