Best Thing About Occupy Movement

[mport1]

I think the best thing about the occupy movement is that it will finally wake a few people up to the fact that we live in a police state. With all the crackdowns and police brutality being filmed and getting wide exposure, a lot more people who were not aware of what is going in this country may finally see what is going on.

However, I fundamentally disagree with their beliefs and proposed solutions. They do not understand either the problem or the solution.

[AuH20]

I think a status quo ruling of Obamacare will do the same as well. Domesticated people will no longer recognize the federal government as a respected authority.

[JK/SEA]

On a side note to this OWS. Anyone notice the helmets the cops are wearing in New York?...2 tone color. United Nations light blue, and U.S military dark blue.

that is all.

[Jeremy]

Just so you know, the OWS protesters were kicked off of private property today. Zuccotti Park is actually privately owned.

[CaptUSA]

Actually, I think you're just preaching to the choir on this. A lot of people look at those videos and think, "look at all the gear they have to wear just to keep themselves safe from a bunch of low-life bums."

Most people don't even care.

[mport1]

Actually, I think you're just preaching to the choir on this. A lot of people look at those videos and think, "look at all the gear they have to wear just to keep themselves safe from a bunch of low-life bums."

Most people don't even care.

True for the most part. However, there will be some people who do see this and come to the realization that this is a police state. And the police have been relatively peaceful here compared to a lot of stories I've seen over the past few years. I can't imagine what the police are going to end up doing if OWS continues and the police decide to act in a more violent fashion.

[brandon]

I'm about as anti-cop as they come but sometimes I think I identify with the police more than the OWS protesters. Lots of the protesters are violent miscreants and vagrants causing public health threats and vandalizing the area. Many of the groups have agreed that property destruction, trespassing, and resisting arrest are acceptable forms of "protest." Considering all this I think, with the exception of some tough guys trying to prove a point, the police response has been pretty restrained.

[jason43]

I think the greatest part is that they tell the cops "we're fighting for your pensions" #fail

They are mostly Obama voters that feel betrayed that his promise of free stuff for all only applied to bankers and have a fundamental misunderstanding of economics. They actually think that state capitalism, ie fascism, is "capitalism". They cant understand that the state will crush them whenever they want and use a myriad of laws against them no matter what they do. The democrats have realized that OWS is not helpful to their reelection, and thus they are expendable. Thats why they have been getting arrested and their camps broken up. The state doesnt like you unless you can be harnessed to help the state (Democrats or Republicans).

[dannno]

Occupy LA

http://i43.tinypic.com/2gskeiw.jpg

[Kade]

I think the greatest part is that they tell the cops "we're fighting for your pensions" #fail

They are mostly Obama voters that feel betrayed that his promise of free stuff for all only applied to bankers and have a fundamental misunderstanding of economics. They actually think that state capitalism, ie fascism, is "capitalism". They cant understand that the state will crush them whenever they want and use a myriad of laws against them no matter what they do. The democrats have realized that OWS is not helpful to their reelection, and thus they are expendable. Thats why they have been getting arrested and their camps broken up. The state doesnt like you unless you can be harnessed to help the state (Democrats or Republicans).

You don't actually believe this do you? Also, the word myriad implies "of" in the definition.

[jason43]

You don't actually believe this do you? Also, the word myriad implies "of" in the definition.

Which part?

That the government will crush opposition that doesnt benefit one of the two approved political parties?

That most of the protesters are poorly informed leftists, voted Obama, and now have buyers remorse?

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

Which part?

That the government will crush opposition that doesnt benefit one of the two approved political parties?

That most of the protesters are poorly informed leftists, voted Obama, and now have buyers remorse?
If McCain was elected, the same type of shit would be happening. As a matter of fact, we may already have been bombing Iran.

[Kade]

Which part?

That the government will crush opposition that doesnt benefit one of the two approved political parties?

That most of the protesters are poorly informed leftists, voted Obama, and now have buyers remorse?

Those are entirely different points, but also incorrect. Those protesters are not poorly informed at all. Disagreeing with your brand of political philosophy is not an automatic invitation to an ad hominem about their level of knowledge on the subject

You have painted the entire liberal conscious with one broad stroke into a group of people who care only about "free stuff". It is an extremely offensive strawman, and a wildly inaccurate one. You would be surprised at the level of understanding these people possess in general about civil government, and you would probably be surprised at the level of knowledge most liberals have in general on the subject. If you want to get factual on the subject, you can show with many studies that very left leaning voters are better educated and more knowledgeable about civil policy, current events, and the political process than the average Conservative voter.

I imagine this will blow right over your head, so continue the offensive assault on the allies of liberty. As you were soldier.

[jason43]

Those are entirely different points, but also incorrect. Those protesters are not poorly informed at all. Disagreeing with your brand of political philosophy is not an automatic invitation to an ad hominem about their level of knowledge on the subject

Reagan said it best, the problem with liberals isnt that they dont know anything, its that they know so much that isnt so. With a couple minor exceptions, the only things I have ever heard from OWS relating to the cause of the economic problem is "corporate greed" and their solution is 'tax the rich' and "end capitalism". Really heavy thinking.


You have painted the entire liberal conscious with one broad stroke into a group of people who care only about "free stuff". It is an extremely offensive strawman, and a wildly inaccurate one.

They do care about 'free stuff', look at their lists of demands, "forgive all debt", "education is a right", "healthcare is a right"... which is typical leftist nonsense. How exactly can they be a right if they require someone elses labor to provide them? So doctors and teachers are slaves to the 'common good'?


You would be surprised at the level of understanding these people possess in general about civil government, and you would probably be surprised at the level of knowledge most liberals have in general on the subject. If you want to get factual on the subject, you can show with many studies that very left leaning voters are better educated and more knowledgeable about civil policy, current events, and the political process than the average Conservative voter.

I imagine this will blow right over your head, so continue the offensive assault on the allies of liberty. As you were soldier.

These people are not allies of liberty, and they basically shun anyone with an opposing viewpoint that goes down there. Adam Kokesh has some great vids on youtube. They do not represent the 99% they represent about 15% of people who are on the hard left.

I tried to support it when it started, and I oppose the police state bashing peoples heads in for no reason, and I think they should stay as long as they want, but everything I've seen in the last two months has been basically the antithesis of freedom. They dont want to hear opposing views, they just want to blame corporations and raise taxes.

And yes, 'conservatives' arent any better. The problem with both is all they want is to gain power to force the other side to do what they want. And thats all OWS wants, and its the central issue I have with all of them. I have personal beliefs, but I cant force them on you. All I ask is the same respect.

And yes these statements are generalizations, not every person anywhere is exactly the same, not every occupier thinks the same, etc, but in general thats my beef with OWS, and liberals, and conservatives. They all want to seize power to force their views on others.

[jason43]

If McCain was elected, the same type of shit would be happening. As a matter of fact, we may already have been bombing Iran.

Indeed, although Obama has bombed 7 countries and will also go to war with Iran if he can get away with it. McCain was a total disaster and probably would have been (amazingly enough) worse.

[Seraphim]

Actually,

Obama is worse than Mccain would have been. It's simple, look at how PACIFIED the American left has become in regards to the wars.

Look at the military expansion of the US military in Africa, DIRECTLY pushing the Chinese back in the those lands.

Had it been Mccain, within MONTHS of his innauguration, there would have been mass protests due to "Just another old white guy doing bad stuff".

Seriously, Obama's administration has quite literally gotten away with murder because a lot of coloured people and unthinking partisan hacks think they have their guy in power, so fuck it, turn a blind eye to his attrocities....after all..HE'S BLACK AND YOU MUST BE A RACIST IF YOU DON'T LIKE HIS MILITARY MURDER.


Indeed, although Obama has bombed 7 countries and will also go to war with Iran if he can get away with it. McCain was a total disaster and probably would have been (amazingly enough) worse.

[WarNoMore]

Actually,

Obama is worse than Mccain would have been. It's simple, look at how PACIFIED the American left has become in regards to the wars.

Look at the military expansion of the US military in Africa, DIRECTLY pushing the Chinese back in the those lands.

Had it been Mccain, within MONTHS of his innauguration, there would have been mass protests due to "Just another old white guy doing bad stuff".

Seriously, Obama's administration has quite literally gotten away with murder because a lot of coloured people and unthinking partisan hacks think they have their guy in power, so fuck it, turn a blind eye to his attrocities....after all..HE'S BLACK AND YOU MUST BE A RACIST IF YOU DON'T LIKE HIS MILITARY MURDER.

Truth.

[Kade]

Reagan said it best, the problem with liberals isnt that they dont know anything, its that they know so much that isnt so. With a couple minor exceptions, the only things I have ever heard from OWS relating to the cause of the economic problem is "corporate greed" and their solution is 'tax the rich' and "end capitalism". Really heavy thinking.



The same tired tripe, over and over. I know these same arguments so well you should just let me respond to myself, it would probably be more entertaining. I'll even put on a sweatervest wrapped around my naked waist, sipping whiskey and puckers, slamming to Mister Mister to look the part.

Either the group has no coherent message, which seems to be the consensus among main stream media, specifically the corporatist / right wing bastions of Fox and NBC, or they have a clear message and you disagree with it...

Hopefully we can agree that there is something fundamentally wrong with removing by force a group of people who are exercising their freedoms.




They do care about 'free stuff', look at their lists of demands, "forgive all debt", "education is a right", "healthcare is a right"... which is typical leftist nonsense. How exactly can they be a right if they require someone elses labor to provide them? So doctors and teachers are slaves to the 'common good'?

These people are not allies of liberty, and they basically shun anyone with an opposing viewpoint that goes down there. …………….


They don't have a list of demands. Several groups allying themselves with the movement have suggested demands, and many people have lamented on the fact that there are not concrete demands.

http://my.firedoglake.com/alanmaki/2011/11/05/why-ows-needs-specific-concrete-demands-and-leadership/

I have found the group extremely willing to debate and accept all sorts of political alignments, so your statement in the most abhorrent style of invalidity possible, an intentional lie. That a few people can edit some camera work and intentionally seek out troublemakers in large groups of people is, at best, dishonest and disingenuous, at worst, specious and treacherous.

I despise generalizations, even if they sometimes appear very accurate. The truth is that the OWS is a large and permanent fixture for the time being in the political posturing of the State, and there are those in charge that do not like it one bit.


There is not a hatred of the rich among liberals. It is a much more nuanced argument that presents a complex picture of game theory applied to the socio-economic model of sub-optimization in NATURAL distribution of wealth. The free market cannot be a worthy mechanism of these actions without the proper environment. It is clear to many people that the environment does not exist. The lamentations are against a group of the enormously wealthy and mainly unnamed highest percentile who mostly reside in the financial sectors, who have, by most of your admission hopefully, contributed little in production or service to our society. They see that wealth, obtained through the most odious and fraudulent mechanisms, siphoned through hidden transaction processes, mulled with the power and force of the Federal Government and its monetary policy as a mark of great dishonor for this country and her people. They see this on the backdrop of how difficult it is to own a home, start a business and/or even find work, and with those of them who are working, doing so at levels greater than any other country can boast.

This is not my country.

[jason43]

Actually,

Obama is worse than Mccain would have been. It's simple, look at how PACIFIED the American left has become in regards to the wars.

I agree, the anti-war left basically got shut down when their boy got in there. McCain was unstable and who knows what he would have done, protests or not.

We'll never know how it would have went down. Reality is the politicians change but the policies never do. The military industrial complex stays the same through all of them.

[jason43]

The same tired tripe, over and over. I know these same arguments so well you should just let me respond to myself, it would probably be more entertaining. I'll even put on a sweatervest wrapped around my naked waist, sipping whiskey and puckers, slamming to Mister Mister to look the part.

LOL


Either the group has no coherent message, which seems to be the consensus among main stream media, specifically the corporatist / right wing bastions of Fox and NBC, or they have a clear message and you disagree with it...

I'm not opposed to their being no message, although the lack of one allows others to fill in the blanks, which has become a recurring problem. And I dont pay any attention to the MSM, especially Fox or MSNBC. I actually follow a bunch of actual OWS people from different cities on my twitter feed. 99% of what I hear coming from OWS is either incorrect, or I oppose it. Guess I'm not allowed to do that?


Hopefully we can agree that there is something fundamentally wrong with removing by force a group of people who are exercising their freedoms.

Yes. I support their right to say whatever they want and to be on public spaces and protest. I cant say I am surprised by the state response. Whenever someone disagrees with the state, is outside the two party system, and sits in place long enough, it gets taken apart. See Waco, the Montana Freemen, etc. Its not just the "lefts" dissenters that get taken apart when they dont fit in the governments picture.


They don't have a list of demands. Several groups allying themselves with the movement have suggested demands, and many people have lamented on the fact that there are not concrete demands.

Its a gift and a curse. Some baseline would probably help limit the damage the MSM has created, but it would also alienate people.


I have found the group extremely willing to debate and accept all sorts of political alignments, so your statement in the most abhorrent style of invalidity possible, an intentional lie. That a few people can edit some camera work and intentionally seek out troublemakers in large groups of people is, at best, dishonest and disingenuous, at worst, specious and treacherous.

I'm not talking clips, I'm talking about 10-20 minute single shot vids of the meetings and interviews with people. I dont pay any attention to the Bill Oreilly shit where they trap people or pick out retards to interview to slander everyone.


I despise generalizations, even if they sometimes appear very accurate. The truth is that the OWS is a large and permanent fixture for the time being in the political posturing of the State, and there are those in charge that do not like it one bit.


There is not a hatred of the rich among liberals. It is a much more nuanced argument that presents a complex picture of game theory applied to the socio-economic model of sub-optimization in NATURAL distribution of wealth. The free market cannot be a worthy mechanism of these actions without the proper environment. It is clear to many people that the environment does not exist. The lamentations are against a group of the enormously wealthy and mainly unnamed highest percentile who mostly reside in the financial sectors, who have, by most of your admission hopefully, contributed little in production or service to our society. They see that wealth, obtained through the most odious and fraudulent mechanisms, siphoned through hidden transaction processes, mulled with the power and force of the Federal Government and its monetary policy as a mark of great dishonor for this country and her people. They see this on the backdrop of how difficult it is to own a home, start a business and/or even find work, and with those of them who are working, doing so at levels greater than any other country can boast.

This is not my country.

There is hatred for the rich amongst liberals, well... when those rich arent liberals that is... multi-millionaire Michael Moore is running around down there, complaining about capitalism while picking which of his multiple homes he wants to stay in that night. lol.

To restore the "natural order of things" all you have to do is remove the governments ability to pick winners and prop up losers. The businesses that are not capable of surviving without government will be gone in a matter of months and their wealth will be redistributed. Its not rocket science.

As far as how that will happen, there are basically two approaches, we can either elect Ron Paul or someone like him and work from within, or we can just read up and let nature run its course and be ready when it collapses, because it will. There is no need to fight the system, we should cheer for it. QE3, QE4, QE5, more wars, etc will just speed the end. We are at the point financially that the more we cheer for the government to do more of the same, the faster it will be out of our lives. We can also try to stay out of the system as much as possible by agorism, and by becoming self sustaining. I also like things like this

The Urban Farming Guys (http://theurbanfarmingguys.com/)

OWS would be much better off to just take the massive amount of money they have, buy up some dilapidated area in the city and show people how its done.

I agree it is not a fair system, central banking and debt money have basically crippled us and created an unsustainable system that demands perpetual growth that can never happen.

I agree that the system is rigged, my issue is that any mandated system will become rigged. I dont want to figure out another system based on fairness, because by its very nature, that would be unfair. I dont want to take from others, I just dont want them to take from me.

I'm completely over the concept of country. There are just people. Until I start to hear that method of thinking coming from OWS, I wont support it, outside the support of its right to exist without beatdowns and teargas.