Progressive Libertarians and Conservative Libertarians

[AlexMerced]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAufwjPktVc

[ShaneEnochs]

Nice tie.

[1836]

As far as I am concerned, "progressive libertarian" is oxymoronic. Progressive political tradition embraces the idea of positive rights, which necessarily grows government, and thus is anti-liberty. You could theoretically be a collectivist and also a libertarian (see Chomsky) but that is not a widely enough held viewpoint to constitute a real school of thought. And Chomsky is startlingly inconsistent.

[AlexMerced]

As far as I am concerned, "progressive libertarian" is oxymoronic. Progressive political tradition embraces the idea of positive rights, which necessarily grows government, and thus is anti-liberty. You could theoretically be a collectivist and also a libertarian (see Chomsky) but that is not a widely enough held viewpoint to constitute a real school of thought. And Chomsky is startlingly inconsistent.

the point of my video is to be able to present a small government view of government in a way that'll make progressives and conservatives begin to think, it's all about planting the seed.

You don't plan trees, you plant seeds.

[1836]

the point of my video is to be able to present a small government view of government in a way that'll make progressives and conservatives begin to think, it's all about planting the seed.

You don't plan trees, you plant seeds.

True progressives are impossible to win over. But liberals, a different story. With some concept of individuals having rights against the state, liberals possess a better base to build on.

[AlexMerced]

True progressives are impossible to win over. But liberals, a different story. With some concept of individuals having rights against the state, liberals possess a better base to build on.

A lot of squishy liberals think they are progressive and refer to themselves as such, if we can help shape the definition of the word we can help shape people hearts and minds.

It's like what the left does by using words like quality and justic ein a way that makes you end up at socialism, we just need to do the opposite. Words are powerful, and we need to leverage that like they have.

[angelatc]

the point of my video is to be able to present a small government view of government in a way that'll make progressives and conservatives begin to think, it's all about planting the seed.

You don't plant trees, you plant seeds.

Actually....most people plant trees.

[heavenlyboy34]

Actually....most people plant trees.
Saplings, usually-or very young trees. It's damn difficult to plant a fully grown tree in most cases-and you really have to know what you're doing.

[John F Kennedy III]

Saplings, usually-or very young trees. It's damn difficult to plant a fully grown tree in most cases-and you really have to know what you're doing.

Lol. This is completely on topic folks, nothing to see here :p

[AlexMerced]

Lol. This is completely on topic folks, nothing to see here :p

lulz

[Inny Binny]

Words change meaning all the time. I mean, if we went by their original definitions, we'd all be leftists and liberals compared to the status quo, given that 'left' originally meant the decentralisation of power and wealth, and 'liberal' meant what libertarian means in the US today. Capitalism and socialism are merely different economic structures, and can come in either statist or free market forms. A conservative is simply one who finds solace in tradition, sameness and stability, and can range from the fascist to the paleolibertarian.

It's all semantic silliness really.

[heavenlyboy34]

Lol. This is completely on topic folks, nothing to see here :p
Damn skippy!! :D:toady:

[heavenlyboy34]

Words change meaning all the time. I mean, if we went by their original definitions, we'd all be leftists and liberals compared to the status quo, given that 'left' originally meant the decentralisation of power and wealth, and 'liberal' meant what libertarian means in the US today. Capitalism and socialism are merely different economic structures, and can come in either statist or free market forms. A conservative is simply one who finds solace in tradition, sameness and stability, and can range from the fascist to the paleolibertarian.

It's all semantic silliness really.
Rather sad in a way, too. "Liberal" was such a great word once upon a time. :(

[AlexMerced]

Words change meaning all the time. I mean, if we went by their original definitions, we'd all be leftists and liberals compared to the status quo, given that 'left' originally meant the decentralisation of power and wealth, and 'liberal' meant what libertarian means in the US today. Capitalism and socialism are merely different economic structures, and can come in either statist or free market forms. A conservative is simply one who finds solace in tradition, sameness and stability, and can range from the fascist to the paleolibertarian.

It's all semantic silliness really.

It's silly, but still powerful, I know I was probably Libetarian when I was younger but identified with the word Liberal, then heard it was the sam thing as progressive which led me down a bad path until Ron Paul woke me up. Words do matter.

[Gumba of Liberty]

Rather sad in a way, too. "Liberal" was such a great word once upon a time. :(

Then bring it back! Words change all the time.

I do like the idea of understanding you audience. When talking to any group it is important to use their buzzwords. For instance

Conservatives:

National Defense
Support the Troops
Gun Rights
The Constitution
States Rights
Property Rights
End the Welfare State
Separation of Church and State

Conservative Heroes:

Jefferson
Taft
Goldwater
Reagan (The Myth)
Milton Friedman

Liberals:

End the Wars and the Warfare State
Civil Liberties
Freedom of Speech
The Bill of Rights
End the Drug War
End Corporatism and Corporate Welfare
Separation of Marriage and State (Allow Gay Marriage)

Liberal Heroes:

Martin Luther King Jr.
Gandhi
Henry David Thoreau
JFK (Ideas on Open Government)
Bob Marley (Stand up for your Rights)

Two vastly different groups capable of grasping the same message if delivered properly. To a Conservative I am a Constitutional Conservative. To a Liberal, I am a Classical Liberal ;)

I hope we can use these techniques when we get to the General.

[kuckfeynes]

It's silly, but still powerful, I know I was probably Libetarian when I was younger but identified with the word Liberal, then heard it was the sam thing as progressive which led me down a bad path until Ron Paul woke me up. Words do matter.

I had exactly the same experience. In fact there are a few public school history teachers I'd like to give a piece of my mind to now. Took me until I was 25 till I worked through all that crap and realized that I'd been had. Even while I was being actively taught to look for bias in English class I was unable to detect it in history class...

[AlexMerced]

most times people teach with a bias without even know it, because everyone think their own perception is neutral, so it's tough to blame people but that's why there should be competition so people get exposed to different ideas despite cognitive biases.