The "C Shell": Cape Cod's New Local Sound Currency

[jaktober]

I group in Cape Cod just introduced their new copper coin "C Shell." They intention is to create a local barter community using the AOCS Approved coin.

http://freeindependentsun.com/permanomics/cape-cod-group-establishes-local-sound-currency-the-%e2%80%9cc-shell%e2%80%9d/

[donnay]

Excellent! I hope others follow suit!

[Seraphim]

Here come the Fed's.

[cbc58]

isn't minting coins going to get them in trouble?

[fisharmor]

C shell is worthless.
The rest of the world uses bash now, even on non-GNU systems.

[fisharmor]

Left comment:

Robert Kahre - convicted, 15 years in prison.
Bernard von Nothaus - convicted, 15 years in prison.

All I gotta say is, good luck, Cape Cod C Shell Community Bartering! Hope your plans don't end up with prison rape!

[Johnnybags]

Good Lord, how can a 1 oz copper medallion worth .25 intrinsically be sound money? I'll take US treasury nickels worth face instead. Almost as bad as the FEDERAL RESERVE NOTE.

[specialK]

Income derived through barter is still taxed and payable by Fed notes.

[brushfire]

...I'm more of a bash guy myself.

[ShaneEnochs]

Isn't this illegal under the Constitution itself? Not only are they coining money, but doesn't the money have to be gold or silver (or based on it [fiat money aside])?

[Steven Douglas]

Alright, I give up, I've been living under a rock. What is "bash"?

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Isn't this illegal under the Constitution itself? Not only are they coining money, but doesn't the money have to be gold or silver (or based on it [fiat money aside])?

The Constitution only places restrictions on the Government (Fed, State, Local), not on the people. I can make whatever currency I want and it is not illegal, though that doesn't stop the illegal Government from throwing you in a pound me in the ass jail.

[fisharmor]

Alright, I give up, I've been living under a rock. What is "bash"?

No, no you haven't... we're just überdorks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_shell
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bash_%28Unix_shell%29

[Zippyjuan]

The Constitution only places restrictions on the Government (Fed, State, Local), not on the people. I can make whatever currency I want and it is not illegal, though that doesn't stop the illegal Government from throwing you in a pound me in the ass jail.

Actually that section of the Constitution (restricting money to only being gold or silver) only applies to states- not the Federal or local governments.


No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.
http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A1Sec10.html

[Steven Douglas]

Actually that section of the Constitution (restricting money to only being gold or silver) only applies to states- not the Federal or local governments.


http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A1Sec10.html

Actually, you're leaving out the Tenth Amendment:


The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.


This is not a case where anything not expressly forbidden to the States or the Federal Government is somehow available thereto by default. Whatever was not expressly delegated to Congress, nor expressly prohibited to the States, was not reserved to Congress by default, but only reserved to the States or to the people. That is why there was no need to expressly prohibit the Federal government in this matter - and it is also why the Federal Government could not establish the Treasury as its own central bank and printing press. It would have instantly been struck down as unconstitutional, precisely because it was expressly forbidden to the States, but not expressly delegated to the Federal Government. The creation of the Federal Reserve charter was the end around sneak - ("We weren't expressly given powers to do the dirty ourselves, so we'll license someone else to do the dirty for us.") Still unconstitutional as hell, but made it through anyway.

The Tenth Amendment is precisely why, in every Supreme Court Constitutional case involving Federal powers, the Federal government (any branch) must be able to demonstrate that the power they exercised was an extension of powers already expressly delegated to it by the Constitution.

It was the Commerce and Elastic ("Necessary and Proper") clauses of Article 1 Section 8 that got expanded into the Federal behemoth that is our Federal Government today. That was the genie extrapolated from a bottle that gave broad, sweeping powers that were never specifically enumerated in the Constitution.

[LetsTradeCShells]

Excellent! I hope others follow suit!

Thank You, I also hope others follow suit.

[LetsTradeCShells]

Here come the Fed's.

Here come the Fed's for what? Do they need some Trade Medallions?

[LetsTradeCShells]

Left comment:

Robert Kahre - convicted, 15 years in prison.
Bernard von Nothaus - convicted, 15 years in prison.

All I gotta say is, good luck, Cape Cod C Shell Community Bartering! Hope your plans don't end up with prison rape!

All I gotta say is, Robert Kahre tried to beat the IRS out of their due, really has nothing to due with trade medallions.

Bernard von Nothaus committed fraud by representing his Liberty Dollar as a replacement for the US Dollar and by confusing the issue when presenting it to the unsuspecting public (this is called fraud of which he was convicted). Once again has nothing to do with trade medallions.

Utilizing a trade medallion is no different than trading some old tools to a carpenter for his labor. Oh, and it is still a taxable transaction, you must pay the IRS their due.

The same news media that refuses to acknowledge our Ron Paul, refuses to accurately report the issues in the cases above leading to confusion about the real issues involved. Seems a little fraudulent on their part as well.

[LetsTradeCShells]

I encourage each and every one of you to do the research on your own. As long as a trade medallion is in no way in direct competition with the US Dollar, bears no resemblance to the US Dollar and is not presented as a US Dollar to the public, there is not a violation of any law. That being said, the government makes up the rules as it goes, this makes it easy for them to crush anything they see as a threat to their system.

http://www.LetsTradeCShells.com (C Shells Website)

[specsaregood]

Isn't this illegal under the Constitution itself? Not only are they coining money, but doesn't the money have to be gold or silver (or based on it [fiat money aside])?

Every Ron Paul supporter should at least read this:
"Gold, Peace, Prosperty. The birth of a new currency. By Dr. Paul.
Available free here: http://mises.org/books/goldpeace.pdf

From that, page 86:


Perhaps in the future we need to consider free
market money, allowing consumers to decide
about their money the way they decide about everything
else. Hans Sennholz and Friedrich von Hayek
argue for this system. And it existed at one time in
our country.

In California, during the 1840s and 1850s, many
privately minted gold coins circulated. The practice
was outlawed in 1864, “but as late as 1914,” points
out Antony Sutton, “the U.S. Treasury was still trying
to halt circulation of private gold pieces in San
Francisco.” Why were such coins still circulating?
Because the private mints maintained higher standards
than the government mint. Often, points out
Dr. Sutton, they were one percent heavier than
Federal issues, “to protect the user from metal loss
by abrasion while the coin was in circulation.” Private
mints held to a higher standard because they were
protected only by their reputation. They could not
force consumers to take substandard money by the
force of law, as government can.

The North financed the Civil War with hundreds
of millions of dollars of irredeemable Greenback
notes, and as a result, prices more than doubled from
1861 to 1865 During the Greenback inflation, people in
California continued to use gold as their money. “In
California, as in other states,” points out Frank Taussig,
“paper was legal tender. . .” that is, people could be
forced to accept it. Although there was no antipathy
towards the Federal government, people believed
strongly in gold. “Every debtor had the legal right to
pay off his debts in depreciated paper. But if he did
so, he was a marked man (the creditor was likely to
post him publicly in the newspapers) and he was
virtually boycotted. Throughout the period, paper
was not used in California.”


great little read, well worth the time investment.

[FreeTraveler]

trade medallion <> sound money

[fisharmor]

All I gotta say is, Robert Kahre tried to beat the IRS out of their due, really has nothing to due with trade medallions.
He paid his employees X US dollars, which were legal tender, where X happened to be less than they would have made anywhere else.
The legal tender he used was precious metal, which had a market value in fiat dollars of much higher than X.
Yet when calculating taxes, all his employees were legally obligated to report was X.
Assuming that the IRS is due anything - and I'm not really buying "everyone says so" as a valid argument - they were due exactly what they were paid, according to the law.
I used this as an example to show that the federal government has absolutely no concern for what the law says. Deviate from the norm, and you'll get their attention. And their attention will most decidedly not come in the form of closing loopholes through congressional action. It will come in the form of black-clad, trigger-happy psychopaths who are itching for an excuse to find out what color the inside of your head is.


Bernard von Nothaus committed fraud by representing his Liberty Dollar as a replacement for the US Dollar and by confusing the issue when presenting it to the unsuspecting public (this is called fraud of which he was convicted). Once again has nothing to do with trade medallions.

Fraud, by definition, is an intentional deception made for personal gain or to damage another individual. The problem with calling it fraud - in the sense you put it - is that if it was fraud at all, it was not fraud with the intent of damaging the public or personally gaining from them. The claimed fraud was committed against the federal government. No other actor in the Liberty Dollar debacle could have claimed damages.

The public - in both cases - were actually better served by what was being done, so they can't have been defrauded. If I sell you a bunch of ratty old comic books from an estate sale for $10, and there happens to be an Amazing Spider-Man #1 in the stack (current value around $40,000), that's hardly fraud. If I trade you that same stack of comics for two packs of cigarettes, that is also hardly fraud (supposing I initiated the transaction, that is).
But if you try to pay taxes on that, and value the cigarettes at $14 and thus call it a $4 loss, you're in trouble with the IRS.

That is why we fear for you and doubt others will follow suit.
They only need to find one example like this to shut down the whole operation.
The only reason it exists at all (as opposed to simply using FRNs) is to similarly defraud the US government.

They know this.

Good Luck.

[specsaregood]

He paid his employees X US dollars, which were legal tender, where X happened to be less than they would have made anywhere else.
The legal tender he used was precious metal, which had a market value in fiat dollars of much higher than X.
Yet when calculating taxes, all his employees were legally obligated to report was X.
Assuming that the IRS is due anything - and I'm not really buying "everyone says so" as a valid argument - they were due exactly what they were paid, according to the law.
I used this as an example to show that the federal government has absolutely no concern for what the law says. Deviate from the norm, and you'll get their attention. And their attention will most decidedly not come in the form of closing loopholes through congressional action. It will come in the form of black-clad, trigger-happy psychopaths who are itching for an excuse to find out what color the inside of your head is.

Not only that; but back when that case was in the news, some enterprising blogger/reporter went to the irs website and used their "ask an agent" feature. They laid out as a hypothetical scenario exactly what Kahre was doing and asked what taxes had to be paid. The response was exactly what Kahre was doing. I don't remember the site, but I do remember the screenshots....

[LetsTradeCShells]

I agree with fisharmor, the government will do whatever it takes to get it's way, however; that does not mean we should run scared.

I totally disagree with the statement, "The only reason it exists at all (as opposed to simply using FRNs) is to similarly defraud the US government.".

In my case, that is simply a lie. I started Cape Cod C Shells for several reasons, none of them is to defraud the US Government. 1. I see an opportunity to make a profit. 2. I want to help keep money in the community. 3. It helps to benefit local charities. 4. When the fiat dollar collapses, and it will, there will be a community currency in place to fill the gap.

[fisharmor]

In my case, that is simply a lie.
I agree. I wasn't clear. I'm not the one making that lie. That is the lie that will be told in court. It won't be told so brazenly either. They lied about Von Nothaus, and the lied big - they called him a terrorist!

[LetsTradeCShells]

I agree. I wasn't clear. I'm not the one making that lie. That is the lie that will be told in court. It won't be told so brazenly either. They lied about Von Nothaus, and the lied big - they called him a terrorist!

I see, sorry, I misunderstood.

I appreciate and now understand the concerns you have. I would appreciate your support. I am willing to take the risks involved in order to support my community, state and country. I would hope others see these risks as necessary as well.

[matt0611]

This sounds like a step in the right direction.
The price is a little on the steep side but not too bad IMO.

Would also be cool if you could use other 1oz copper rounds in these transactions as well. Or can you?

Though I think the design is pretty nice on these medallions.

Would be cool to see some fractional silver ones eventually that had a floating exchange rate with the copper ones.

[mconder]

I group in Cape Cod just introduced their new copper coin "C Shell." They intention is to create a local barter community using the AOCS Approved coin.

http://freeindependentsun.com/permanomics/cape-cod-group-establishes-local-sound-currency-the-%e2%80%9cc-shell%e2%80%9d/

One word to them - NORFED

[Zippyjuan]

Actually, you're leaving out the Tenth Amendment:



This is not a case where anything not expressly forbidden to the States or the Federal Government is somehow available thereto by default. Whatever was not expressly delegated to Congress, nor expressly prohibited to the States, was not reserved to Congress by default, but only reserved to the States or to the people. That is why there was no need to expressly prohibit the Federal government in this matter - and it is also why the Federal Government could not establish the Treasury as its own central bank and printing press. It would have instantly been struck down as unconstitutional, precisely because it was expressly forbidden to the States, but not expressly delegated to the Federal Government. The creation of the Federal Reserve charter was the end around sneak - ("We weren't expressly given powers to do the dirty ourselves, so we'll license someone else to do the dirty for us.") Still unconstitutional as hell, but made it through anyway.

The Tenth Amendment is precisely why, in every Supreme Court Constitutional case involving Federal powers, the Federal government (any branch) must be able to demonstrate that the power they exercised was an extension of powers already expressly delegated to it by the Constitution.

It was the Commerce and Elastic ("Necessary and Proper") clauses of Article 1 Section 8 that got expanded into the Federal behemoth that is our Federal Government today. That was the genie extrapolated from a bottle that gave broad, sweeping powers that were never specifically enumerated in the Constitution.

You are correct, but the Constitution does assign the power of money to Congress in that Article 1 Section Eight:

The Congress shall have power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common defence[note 1] and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;


To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current coin of the United States;


To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

[123tim]

...I'm more of a bash guy myself.

This is probably over the heads of most on the forum....
I don't think that there are many Unix/Linux people here.

Now if people wanted to be truly free....... :)

[123tim]

Copper? That's not worth anything.
No. Wait.............

[123tim]

I agree with fisharmor, the government will do whatever it takes to get it's way, however; that does not mean we should run scared.

I totally disagree with the statement, "The only reason it exists at all (as opposed to simply using FRNs) is to similarly defraud the US government.".

In my case, that is simply a lie. I started Cape Cod C Shells for several reasons, none of them is to defraud the US Government. 1. I see an opportunity to make a profit. 2. I want to help keep money in the community. 3. It helps to benefit local charities. 4. When the fiat dollar collapses, and it will, there will be a community currency in place to fill the gap.




I'd be interested because we have ties to Cape Cod.

I was wondering if this was your site?
http://shop.letstradecshells.com/1-oz-C-Shell-Barter-Round-in-999-fine-Copper-AOCS-Approved-Copper1ozCCCS.htm

I was also wondering how much shipping would be for these?
Would they come with any sort of documentation?
(Please! Don't call any of your products "coins", or "dollars", or anything like that.) You won't be around for long.))