OWS Advocate: Creeping Rightwing Populism With THOSE Ron Paul People

[AuH20]

I really don't like these statists at all.

hxtp://news.infoshop.org/article.php?story=20111108011422978



This equivocation is leading to the proliferation of some very bad ideas in the movement. Instead of class analysis, we are getting more and more gold-standard crankery, Federal Reserve fetishism and other right-wing, pro-capitalist responses to the crisis. Partisans of Ron Paul are a visible presence at OWS. They are plugging a free-market Republican whose rhetoric targets the Federal Reserve Bank for the wrong reasons—not because a private institution has been granted a public function, but because (in his words) it has a "loose monetary policy" that favors "big-spending politicians." This has been standard Republican code since Reagan for too much social spending and perceived coddling of the working class. Even Murray Rothbard, ideological guru of laissez-faire capitalism, has been put forth by some at Liberty Plaza as providing the answers to the current crisis. He actually provides a more extreme version of precisely the policies that got us into it.

All the talk about returning to the gold standard is particularly ironic. The US went off the gold standard under Franklin Delano Roosevelt not because of some nefarious scheme by bankers, but in response to a popular groundswell—and in spite of the wishes of the banking elite! In 1896, when the populist candidate William Jennings Bryan famously said before the Democratic Convention in Chicago, "You shall not crucify mankind on a cross of gold," he was referring to exactly the big-money interests that we are protesting today. Then, it was understood that the gold standard and "tight monetary policy" were good news for the bankers and brokers—and bad news for the rest of us. Obviously, the gold standard did nothing to prevent the Great Depression, and FDR abandoned it precisely to bring some relief to the country's working people and unemployed. Since then, the population has greatly expanded, far outstripping the gold supply—making the gold standard even less tenable, and more of an inevitable mechanism for imposing austerity.

The proffering of such retrogressive pseudo-solutions is worse than self-defeating—it threatens to undo the all the progress OWS has made in stealing the populist fire from the Tea Party. No, the Ron Paul folks aren't nearly as toxic as the Teabaggers, but they both represent a right-wing response to the crisis. Rather than wooing Tea Party rank-and-file away from their odious leadership, we run the risk of the reverse happening—our own movement being subject to a stealth take-over by our worst enemies.

[FreeTraveler]

Then how about you break that link?

[pcosmar]

Actually kind of Ironic since some of the people that were in on this from the beginning were RP supporters and these folks are the ones attempting to take it over.
And worse yet they have no real answers. These are the rebels without a clue.

I am more and more convinced that Adbusters joining this was a huge mistake.

[WarNoMore]

Actually kind of Ironic since some of the people that were in on this from the beginning were RP supporters and these folks are the ones attempting to take it over.
And worse yet they have no real answers. These are the rebels without a clue.

I am more and more convinced that Adbusters joining this was a huge mistake.

That's my biggest problem with those bashing Ron Paul and those who support the message of liberty. What exactly is the alternative that these progressives or whatever it is they think they are offer? Any detailed plans that don't involve jacking my stuff to give to other people?

Also why is it that when I listen to intelligent people like Paul or Tom Woods they actually make sense and I've actually learned something. They can give detailed descriptions of what they believe and why, and apply their belief's to the real world and explain why things went wrong or how their ideas would've made more sense to follow.

From what I've read this article doesn't explain why the writer thinks Rothbard's to blame for this economic crisis, meanwhile people in the libertarian camp. particularly austrian economists, predicted this financial crisis. They were not the ones in charge, but they knew better than those in charge and knew their policies were doomed to fail. I'll listen to all sides, but I tend to respect people more when they can back their statements up rather than jus throw claims around without substantiating them. Plus, I can tell if they're full of shit or not.

[matt0611]

That's my biggest problem with those bashing Ron Paul and those who support the message of liberty. What exactly is the alternative that these progressives or whatever it is they think they are offer? Any detailed plans that don't involve jacking my stuff to give to other people?

Also why is it that when I listen to intelligent people like Paul or Tom Woods they actually make sense and I've actually learned something. They can give detailed descriptions of what they believe and why, and apply their belief's to the real world and explain why things went wrong or how their ideas would've made more sense to follow.

From what I've read this article doesn't explain why the writer thinks Rothbard's to blame for this economic crisis, meanwhile people in the libertarian camp. particularly austrian economists, predicted this financial crisis. They were not the ones in charge, but they knew better than those in charge and knew their policies were doomed to fail. I'll listen to all sides, but I tend to respect people more when they can back their statements up rather than jus throw claims around without substantiating them. Plus, I can tell if they're full of shit or not.

Tax the rich, "free healthcare for all", "free education for all", more government spending etc etc

[puppetmaster]

Great. It is working....freedom is popular once it gets explained.

[pcosmar]

Tax the rich, "free healthcare for all", "free education for all", more government spending etc etc

That is the stuff Adbusters brought with them. They brought in a bunch of Radical Marxists and Anarchists (the radical clueless kind).
They had the social networks to draw people (bodies) to the protests.

This was originally started By Anonymous (OpESR) and AmpedStatus. The focus was ending the Fed and the Corruption. The first protest they attempted had very little turn out. They called for more folks and Adbusters came in.

I am convinced that was a mistake. They are taking it over and the focus is changing.

[AuH20]

htzp://www.pslweb.org/liberationnews/news/ron-paul-tea-party-not-our.html

So the Paul supporters are reluctant to engage in subective theft?


Paul and libertarians are not for redistributing Wall Street’s wealth to benefit working and poor people. They are opposed to creating jobs with a living wage, universal health care, public education, and making affordable housing a right. They are opposed to any social program aimed at alleviating the suffering of the masses of people.

Ron Paul strongly opposes anything that puts the brakes on the capitalists’ ability to make profits. He would like to see labor unions destroyed. He is against a federal minimum wage.

Paul wants the current tax system to be reformed, but only so that it favors the super rich even more. He supports wide-ranging privatizations, wanting to hand over everything from Social Security to the post office to capitalists who would drive up prices and exploit workers even more to maximize profit. All of this is framed by the bogus argument of needing “less government.”

But Paul seeks to retain capitalism for the benefit of business owners and at the expense of the poor. No matter what the pro-Paul rhetoric claims, libertarians like Paul want to retain the system that keeps Wall Street greed alive.

Some groups are more equal than others:


Paul has also espoused anti-immigrant beliefs, sponsored sexist, anti-choice legislation, and made derisive comments targeting LGBT people. Apparently, his brand of “individualism” has no room for the people most oppressed by capitalism—people of color, immigrants, women and the LGBT community. Yet it is these very sectors that must be at the forefront of any people’s struggle to change society for the better.

For this movement to move forward, we must be clear: There is no room for right-wing ideologies in the struggle against Wall Street. Those views reinforce the status quo and serves the interests of Wall Street.

The choice facing the working class is not between more or less government. The real question is which class the government serves. Working and poor people should reject the backward ideology of libertarianism and fight for a people’s government committed to building a more just and equal society.

[Badger Paul]

"Great. It is working....freedom is popular once it gets explained. !"

Exactly, they're educating just as we asked them to do so this becomes a real movement with broad support instead of parody which will end up in mass arrests.

[Brian4Liberty]

Paul has also espoused anti-immigrant beliefs, sponsored sexist, anti-choice legislation, and made derisive comments targeting LGBT people. Apparently, his brand of “individualism” has no room for the people most oppressed by capitalism—people of color, immigrants, women and the LGBT community.

Ironically, they love unlimited immigration, just like the bankers, just like big business, just like the anarchists. But the biggest reason they are out there protesting is because of high unemployment, and that is a matter of supply and demand of labor. One of the biggest factors (next to Federal Reserve Policy) was massive immigration flooding the labor market. Come to think of it, that was Federal Reserve Policy too, pushed by Alan Greenspan!

[Athan]

I really don't like these statists at all.

hxtp://news.infoshop.org/article.php?story=20111108011422978

That story is actually ENCOURAGING. We aren't breaking up OWS as we are supporting their numbers. We are screwing up the plans of the communists and educating people.

[pcosmar]

That story is actually ENCOURAGING. We aren't breaking up OWS as we are supporting their numbers. We are screwing up the plans of the communists and educating people.

That^^
The focus of End the Fed scares TPTB. That was the focus (in part) of the original Tea Party. They did all they could to marginalize it,, and then Co-Opt it.

The original Focus of this was, End the Fed and corruption. They tried too play it down, scare it off (police tactics) and then Co-Opt it.

Standard operating procedures.

[dannno]

Let me just say that there are a lot more Ron Paul supporters in OWS than there are people who try and destroy a McDonalds for not serving food, destroy vendor stands and disrespect in general.

So the OP has such a weak case here, they are really showcasing their weaknesses in this thread.

You have a group of people attending OWS who are hardcore statists, which I believe is ultimately a minority if you really dig deep into their beliefs, and the rest are really just tired of allowing rich criminals to steal from everybody.

So the OP chooses to post articles that make the hardcore statists and the irresponsible disrespectful people appear to BE OWS when they are not.. and now they are posting an article saying that the harcore statist IS OWS while the Ron Paul supporters who outnumber the anti-Ron Paul supporters some how are not??

[A Son of Liberty]

The real question is which class the government serves

And there it is. This is absolutely accurate - government is the gun people use against the heads of other people.

[seapilot]

Instead of calling them Ron Paul people they really are Freedom supporters.

[klamath]

Well it looks like the era of neoconservatism is over and Neomarxisn is on a roll. The neoconservative can go back to their roots.

[AuH20]

Well it looks like the era of neoconservatism is over and Neomaxisn is on a roll. The neoconservative can go back to their roots.
The death of socialism was never going to have a pretty ending. There are going to be alot of bodies.

[Acala]

I just took a five gallon bucket of brown rice to the OWS here in town. I plan to continue to reach out to them. So far, I agree with 90% of what I see on signs. The commies will cut their own throats with their shrill hatred and envy. They have no response to liberty and non-violence. But we have to BRING it to the OWS. There isn't time for them to figure it out on their own.

[jmdrake]

That story is actually ENCOURAGING. We aren't breaking up OWS as we are supporting their numbers. We are screwing up the plans of the communists and educating people.

^This. Seriously the OP does more to encourage me that those hating on OWS wholesale are wrong. There are enough Ron Paul types mixing it up with the crowd to get under the skin of the hardcore Marxists and force them to address and try to silence our message.

[Pericles]

"Great. It is working....freedom is popular once it gets explained. !"

Exactly, they're educating just as we asked them to do so this becomes a real movement with broad support instead of parody which will end up in mass arrests.

We are for everybody getting rich - it messes up their minds.