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John F Kennedy III
11-09-2011, 04:14 PM
Americans Are Now Living In a Society That Rivals Orwell’s 1984

Winston Smith’s Oceania has nothing on 2011 America

Paul Joseph Watson & Alex Jones
Infowars.com
Wednesday, November 9, 2011

Americans are now living in a society that in some cases is more draconian, more invasive and more Orwellian than the dystopian tyranny fictionalized in Orwell’s chilling classic Nineteen Eighty-Four. On almost every front, American citizens are under an equal or greater threat of abuse, control and more pervasive and high-tech surveillance than anything Winston Smith ever faced.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_30TpBo-V_Ds/TQBdRBVNV4I/AAAAAAAAANM/ZXN_6wT3cXs/s1600/Big%2BSis%2Bis%2BWatching%2BYou.jpg

Compare life in Oceania to life in 2011 America, with quotes from George Orwell’s 1984 appearing in italic.

“In general you could not assume that you were much safer in the country than in London. There were no telescreens, of course, but there was always the danger of concealed microphones by which your voice might be picked up and recognized.”

Americans will now too have their every utterance listened to by Big Brother in public through surveillance-capable street lights now being installed in major cities across the country which can record private conversations. Just as the citizens of Oceania could never be sure of their privacy, Charlotte’s Deputy Homeland Security chief told the local Fox network earlier this week that Americans “would never know” whether or not the government was listening.

“In the far distance a helicopter skimmed down between the roofs, hovered for an instant like a bluebottle, and darted away again with a curving flight. It was the police patrol, snooping into people’s windows.”

America in 2011 is more advanced than Orwell’s Oceania in that it doesn’t have to rely on expensive helicopters to spy on citizens. That job has now been entrusted to unmanned drones that not only act as surveillance devices, they can also carry tasers that deliver incapaciating electric shocks to “suspected” criminals.

“It was terribly dangerous to let your thoughts wander when you were in any public place or within range of a telescreen. The smallest thing could give you away. A nervous tic, an unconscious look of anxiety, a habit of muttering to yourself – anything that carried with it the suggestion of abnormality, of having something to hide. In any case, to wear an improper expression on your face (to look incredulous when a victory was announced, for example) was itself a punishable offense. There was even a word for it in Newspeak: facecrime, it was called.”

Facecrime is now a reality in 2011 with the aid of behaviometrics – a new omnipresent surveillance technology developed for the US Air Force and destined to be used in law enforcement to “monitor suspicious behavior”. The system revolves around a camera that tracks facial movements biometrically in order to build a psychological profile of the individual under surveillance. The movements of the muscles in your face will alert Big Brother, through the process of “behavior analysis,” to your presence as a suspicious individual who may be engaging in the act of thought crime, or God forbid, planning a public protest.

“It was almost normal for people over thirty to be frightened of their own children. And with good reason, for hardly a week passed in which The Times did not carry a paragraph describing how some eavesdropping little sneak — ‘child hero’ was the phrase generally used — had overheard some compromising remark and denounced its parents to the Thought Police.”

As part of Homeland Security’s See Something, Say Something program, Americans are being bombarded at every level, from Wal-Mart, to football games, to hotel rooms, with messages encouraging them t to report their fellow citizens for engaging in “suspicious activity,” which as we have documented, includes mundane behavior such as paying with cash, opposing surveillance, using a video camera, talking to police officers, wearing hoodies, driving vans, writing on a piece of paper, and using a cell phone recording application.

Schools are also now training children to be “eco-spies” by reporting on their parents’ bad recycling habits, encouraging kids to “re-educate” them into compliance.

“Inside the flat a fruity voice was reading out a list of figures which had something to do with the production of pig-iron. The voice came from an oblong metal plaque like a dulled mirror which formed part of the surface of the right-hand wall. Winston turned a switch and the voice sank somewhat, though the words were still distinguishable. The instrument (the telescreen, it was called) could be dimmed, but there was no way of shutting it off completely.”

Just as the citizens of Oceania were constantly bombarded with propaganda from the state via telescreens, Americans are now being subjected to the same onslaught in the form of spurious “alerts” from the federal government that are delivered through numerous platforms, including LED screens on the ‘Intellistreets’ lighting network, televisions at Wal-Mart stores that play Janet Napolitano’s “See Something, Say Something” diatribe, FEMA’s Emergency Alert System that can hijack all conventional boradcast communications, and mandatory government messages that will appear on all new cellphones from the end of next year. And if that isn’t enough, the Washington Post today called for the Internet to also be brought under the auspices of a government takeover switch. Whereas Winston Smith only had to put up with Big Brother lecturing him via telescreens, Americans will be peppered with propaganda from every conceivable direction.

“In the vast majority of cases there was no trial, no report of the arrest. People simply disappeared, always during the night. Your name was removed from the registers, every record of everything you had ever done was wiped out, your one-time existence was denied and then forgotten. You were abolished, annihilated: vaporized was the usual word.”

American citizens are not merely “disappearing” without a trial, as happened those who had comitted thoughtcrime in 1984, they are being directly assassinated via Predator drone strikes with no oversight and no legal process whatsoever. As the case of U.S. citizen Anwar Al-Awlaki shows, Americans are now at risk of falling victim to a program of state-sponsored assassination should they be designated “terrorists”. In Orwell’s 1984, miscreants were tortured and brainwashed, but they were not murdered on a whim by government decree before at least being given the opportunity to recant.

“Don’t you see that the whole aim of Newspeak is to narrow the range of thought? In the end we shall make thoughtcrime literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it. Every concept that can ever be needed, will be expressed by exactly one word, with its meaning rigidly defined and all its subsidiary meanings rubbed out and forgotten.”

Illiteracy rates in many large states are rising. One in seven Americans cannot read anything more challenging than a children’s picture book. Americans are being dumbed-down by an onslaught of fluoride in the water, cultural decay that celebrates stupidity over intelligence, and a public school system in terminal decline. Attention spans are shortening as Americans are fed a constant diet of mind-numbing “entertainment”. Vocabularies are shrinking as many Americans can barely express themselves. Whereas in 1984, higher-level thinking was destroyred directly by the state, in 2011 America the entertainment industry is doing just as good a job if not better.

“In Oceania at the present day, Science, in the old sense, has almost ceased to exist. In Newspeak there is no word for ‘Science’. The empirical method of thought, on which all the scientific achievements of the past were founded, is opposed to the most fundamental principles of Ingsoc. And even technological progress only happens when its products can in some way be used for the diminution of human liberty.”

Technology is being used to crush human liberty and eviscerate our privacy. Every technological advancement, from Facebook to the IPhone, brings with it a further assault on privacy. The U.S. judicial system is identifying ways to legalize constant surveillance over every American, most recently with the effort to give authorities the power to secretly track Americans through clandestine global positioning systems attached to their vehicles.

“Only a person thoroughly grounded in Ingsoc could appreciate the full force of the word bellyfeel, which implied a blind, enthusiastic, and casual acceptance difficult to imagine today.”

Orwell’s “bellyfeel” is our cognitive dissonance. This is the process of having blind faith in an explanation or a fact so long as it comes from the establishment – the actual truth of the matter bears no significance. Bellyfeel enables Americans to unquestionably accept everything they are told without the need for critical thinking. On the eve of the invasion of Iraq, 69% of Americans believed that Saddam Hussein was involved in the 9/11 attacks, despite there being no evidence whatsoever that it was true.

These are just a handful of examples that illustrate how Americans and westerners in general are now living in a society that rivals and in some cases outstrips the world of Winston Smith in 1984. Smith was eventually made to love Big Brother and accept that two plus two equals five if the authorities say it does.

The question is, will Americans ever reclaim their sense of dignity and freedom or – like the Party members in Orwell’s Oceania – will they learn to love their servitude?


http://www.infowars.com/americans-are-now-living-in-a-society-that-rivals-orwells-1984/

Anti Federalist
11-09-2011, 07:10 PM
The question is, will Americans ever reclaim their sense of dignity and freedom or – like the Party members in Orwell’s Oceania – will they learn to love their servitude?

The answer, sadly, is a resounding no.

I was one of only 48 people out of over 100,000 that knew enough to exercise their rights when getting questioned by TSA "officers" at Logan airport.

And it's coming at from all side, government and private sector.

I was just notified that if I wanted to continue to work in my industry, I would have to submit to hair follicle drug testing (and got knows what else the fuckers will snoop around in my DNA looking for). But, as we all know, private corporations can't tyrannize anybody, only government can.

"You're free to get another job."

"I can't get another job, because everybody is doing it."

"Oh well, you're free to die, I guess."

heavenlyboy34
11-09-2011, 07:28 PM
I haven't read 1984 yet, so I always say modern society resembles the One State described in Zamyatin's "We" (Мы, in the original Russian)

KCIndy
11-09-2011, 07:28 PM
Americans are now living in a society that in some cases is more draconian, more invasive and more Orwellian than the dystopian tyranny fictionalized in Orwell’s chilling classic Nineteen Eighty-Four. On almost every front, American citizens are under an equal or greater threat of abuse, control and more pervasive and high-tech surveillance than anything Winston Smith ever faced.


Hell, I've been saying this for years now. I've even offered to buy a copy of 1984 for anyone who would be willing to read it. Sadly, a large percentage of the population simply doesn't give a damn. It's so much easier for them to be a sheep. :(

KCIndy
11-09-2011, 07:30 PM
I've even offered to buy a copy of 1984 for anyone who would be willing to read it.



I haven't read 1984 yet,


Want a copy? :D

specialK
11-09-2011, 07:36 PM
Hell, I've been saying this for years now. I've even offered to buy a copy of 1984 for anyone who would be willing to read it. Sadly, a large percentage of the population simply doesn't give a damn. It's so much easier for them to be a sheep. :(

I think sheep would be more likely to watch it on screen than read it. Tell them Netflix has the movie.

KCIndy
11-09-2011, 07:38 PM
I was just notified that if I wanted to continue to work in my industry, I would have to submit to hair follicle drug testing (and got knows what else the fuckers will snoop around in my DNA looking for). But, as we all know, private corporations can't tyrannize anybody, only government can.




Jeez. And all these years I've been indignant about being forced to pee in a cup every few months in order to keep my job. I wonder how long it will take before this fresh bullsh*t hits the transportation industry... :mad::mad:

KCIndy
11-09-2011, 07:40 PM
I think sheep would be more likely to watch it on screen than read it. Tell them Netflix has the movie.


LOL! I think that summarizes the essence of the problem quite succinctly.

Anti Federalist
11-09-2011, 08:48 PM
Jeez. And all these years I've been indignant about being forced to pee in a cup every few months in order to keep my job. I wonder how long it will take before this fresh bullsh*t hits the transportation industry... :mad::mad:

See that's just it, I'm in the transportation industry as well.

I, like you, have to suffer the piss in the cup indiginty as well.

This has nothing to do with government.

This is a conspiracy of the major players in my business (oil companies) to do it on their own, government is not requiring this.

You'll go into an industry wide database, and if you fail or refuse or try to exercise your rights and resist, you go into the "blackball" list, your name is reported to various drug enforcement authorities, you will never work in the industry again and you will more than likely get a SWAT raid because of it.

John F Kennedy III
11-09-2011, 09:04 PM
The answer, sadly, is a resounding no.

I was one of only 48 people out of over 100,000 that knew enough to exercise their rights when getting questioned by TSA "officers" at Logan airport.

And it's coming at from all side, government and private sector.

I was just notified that if I wanted to continue to work in my industry, I would have to submit to hair follicle drug testing (and got knows what else the fuckers will snoop around in my DNA looking for). But, as we all know, private corporations can't tyrannize anybody, only government can.

"You're free to get another job."

"I can't get another job, because everybody is doing it."

"Oh well, you're free to die, I guess."

This type of shit needs to stop. People need to wake up and start caring. Though I'm sure not enough will until they wake up in a FEMA camp or Pentagon cold-sleep box.

John F Kennedy III
11-09-2011, 09:06 PM
I haven't read 1984 yet, so I always say modern society resembles the One State described in Zamyatin's "We" (Мы, in the original Russian)

I highly recommend reading 1984. It's a great book and will leave you stunned that Orwell predicted all this so many decades ago.

heavenlyboy34
11-09-2011, 09:07 PM
Want a copy? :D
Yes! (as long as it's free, of course ;) :D )

John F Kennedy III
11-09-2011, 09:10 PM
See that's just it, I'm in the transportation industry as well.

I, like you, have to suffer the piss in the cup indiginty as well.

This has nothing to do with government.

This is a conspiracy of the major players in my business (oil companies) to do it on their own, government is not requiring this.

You'll go into an industry wide database, and if you fail or refuse or try to exercise your rights and resist, you go into the "blackball" list, your name is reported to various drug enforcement authorities, you will never work in the industry again and you will more than likely get a SWAT raid because of it.

I fucking hate what this country has become and how willingly people are just going along with this. It makes me so fucking mad that we could change all this within a few short years if only the damned sheeple would WAKE UP!

heavenlyboy34
11-09-2011, 09:12 PM
I highly recommend reading 1984. It's a great book and will leave you stunned that Orwell predicted all this so many decades ago.I would not be surprised at all. He read "We" before writing 1984. "We" was perfect for Orwell, as Zamyatin lived through one of the most horrifying, dystopian periods in history and in a way retold the history of the Soviet nightmare as a novel.

1984 thoughtcrime? Does it matter that George Orwell pinched the plot? (http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog/2009/jun/08/george-orwell-1984-zamyatin-we)George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four is a classic – but it owes its plot, characters and conclusion to Yevgeny Zamyatin's 1920s novel We.

ETA: Read "We" (English version) in epub format here: http://www.epubbud.com/book.php?g=K3FGCN8Y

Anti Federalist
11-09-2011, 09:15 PM
I fucking hate what this country has become and how willingly people are just going along with this. It makes me so fucking mad that we could change all this within a few short years if only the damned sheeple would WAKE UP!

You know what's really scary?

I think they are awake.

I think this is what they want.

We've turned into a society of masochists, that like to be abused and beaten.

And Christ help us all if that's the case.

John F Kennedy III
11-09-2011, 09:15 PM
I've even offered to buy a copy of 1984 for anyone who would be willing to read it.


I haven't read 1984 yet


Want a copy? :D


Yes! (as long as it's free, of course ;) :D )

You can get copies here for as little as a penny plus $3.99 shipping:

http://www.amazon.com/1984-Signet-Classics-George-Orwell/dp/0451524934/ref=tmm_mmp_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1320894820&sr=1-1

John F Kennedy III
11-09-2011, 09:17 PM
I would not be surprised at all. He read "We" before writing 1984. "We" was perfect for Orwell, as Zamyatin lived through one of the most horrifying, dystopian periods in history and in a way retold the history of the Soviet nightmare as a novel.

1984 thoughtcrime? Does it matter that George Orwell pinched the plot? (http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog/2009/jun/08/george-orwell-1984-zamyatin-we)George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four is a classic – but it owes its plot, characters and conclusion to Yevgeny Zamyatin's 1920s novel We.

ETA: Read "We" (English version) in epub format here: http://www.epubbud.com/book.php?g=K3FGCN8Y

Interesting. I'll have to read it sometime.

Anti Federalist
11-09-2011, 09:17 PM
Read online for free:

http://www.george-orwell.org/1984

John F Kennedy III
11-09-2011, 09:20 PM
You know what's really scary?

I think they are awake.

I think this is what they want.

We've turned into a society of masochists, that like to be abused and beaten.

And Christ help us all if that's the case.

It is scary and it is for sure the case with a large percentage of Americans. They may not be truly awake to what is coming, not all of them anyway, but they would no doubt LOVE IT when it does happen. The fascists, socialists and communists, what is coming is EXACTLY what they want.

QueenB4Liberty
11-09-2011, 09:22 PM
I would not be surprised at all. He read "We" before writing 1984. "We" was perfect for Orwell, as Zamyatin lived through one of the most horrifying, dystopian periods in history and in a way retold the history of the Soviet nightmare as a novel.

1984 thoughtcrime? Does it matter that George Orwell pinched the plot? (http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog/2009/jun/08/george-orwell-1984-zamyatin-we)George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four is a classic – but it owes its plot, characters and conclusion to Yevgeny Zamyatin's 1920s novel We.

ETA: Read "We" (English version) in epub format here: http://www.epubbud.com/book.php?g=K3FGCN8Y

I'm going to read We and re-read 1984 soon. Thanks! :)

Pauls' Revere
11-09-2011, 09:23 PM
Feds eye plan to make Internet snooping easier

http://www.foxbusiness.com/personal-finance/2010/09/27/feds-eye-plan-make-internet-snooping-easier/

The Obama Administration is reportedly considering a statute that would make it easier for federal authorities to intercept communications over services such as Facebook, Skype and BlackBerry -- an idea that's stoking anxiety within the privacy community.

The measure would force Internet companies that provide communications services to add in capabilities allowing federal authorities to intercept any messages on their networks, and to unscramble encrypted ones, the New York Times reported today .

The idea is being driven by law enforcement authorities worried that their ability to wiretap criminal and terrorism suspects is being eroded as more communications take place online rather than by phone.

A bill outlining the requirements could go to lawmakers sometime next year, the Times said.

Under the existing Communications Assistance to Law Enforcement Act (CALEA), telecommunications providers are already required to provide interception capabilities to federal law enforcement officials. The new proposals would extend that capability to the Internet.



Under the existing Communications Assistance to Law Enforcement Act (CALEA), telecommunications providers are already required to provide interception capabilities to federal law enforcement officials. The new proposals would extend that capability to the Internet.

KCIndy
11-09-2011, 09:27 PM
I would not be surprised at all. He read "We" before writing 1984. "We" was perfect for Orwell, as Zamyatin lived through one of the most horrifying, dystopian periods in history and in a way retold the history of the Soviet nightmare as a novel.

1984 thoughtcrime? Does it matter that George Orwell pinched the plot? (http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog/2009/jun/08/george-orwell-1984-zamyatin-we)George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four is a classic – but it owes its plot, characters and conclusion to Yevgeny Zamyatin's 1920s novel We.

ETA: Read "We" (English version) in epub format here: http://www.epubbud.com/book.php?g=K3FGCN8Y


Well, Zamyatin and Orwell (Eric Blair, if we're really being technical) were both describing life as it really was during the Soviet dictatorship. Under that sort of tyranny there can really be only one plot, and definitely just one ending. I don't think there were ever any happy endings in the Soviet Union. I'll have to check out Zamyatin's work. I've heard about it, but never actually read it.

And HB - when you get the chance, PM me your mailing address and I'll certainly spring for a copy of 1984. It really is worth the read.

KCIndy
11-09-2011, 09:27 PM
Another double post? <dammit!!>> stupid stuttering wifi connection.... :(

Brian4Liberty
11-09-2011, 09:29 PM
Yes! (as long as it's free, of course ;) :D )


Read online for free:

http://www.george-orwell.org/1984

Damn, beat me to it!

As for me, I love Big Brother. ;)

John F Kennedy III
11-09-2011, 09:31 PM
Feds eye plan to make Internet snooping easier

http://www.foxbusiness.com/personal-finance/2010/09/27/feds-eye-plan-make-internet-snooping-easier/

The Obama Administration is reportedly considering a statute that would make it easier for federal authorities to intercept communications over services such as Facebook, Skype and BlackBerry -- an idea that's stoking anxiety within the privacy community.

The measure would force Internet companies that provide communications services to add in capabilities allowing federal authorities to intercept any messages on their networks, and to unscramble encrypted ones, the New York Times reported today .

The idea is being driven by law enforcement authorities worried that their ability to wiretap criminal and terrorism suspects is being eroded as more communications take place online rather than by phone.

A bill outlining the requirements could go to lawmakers sometime next year, the Times said.

Under the existing Communications Assistance to Law Enforcement Act (CALEA), telecommunications providers are already required to provide interception capabilities to federal law enforcement officials. The new proposals would extend that capability to the Internet.



Under the existing Communications Assistance to Law Enforcement Act (CALEA), telecommunications providers are already required to provide interception capabilities to federal law enforcement officials. The new proposals would extend that capability to the Internet.

I'm putting the over/under on yes votes at 95%.

John F Kennedy III
11-09-2011, 09:34 PM
Damn, beat me to it!

As for me, I love Big Brother. ;)

With gin scented tears? :p

Ok guys you've made me talk myself into it. I'm going to order a copy of 1984 :). I haven't read it in 3 years...

heavenlyboy34
11-09-2011, 09:37 PM
Update: You can read "We" in pdf format here (http://mises.org/books/we_zamiatin.pdf)if you can't read epub format. I think the Ginsberg translation is best, but it's not online free anywhere, AFAIK. :(

Anti Federalist
11-09-2011, 09:42 PM
Update: You can read "We" in pdf format here (http://mises.org/books/we_zamiatin.pdf)if you can't read epub format. I think the Ginsberg translation is best, but it's not online free anywhere, AFAIK. :(

I'm assuming your Russian is good enough to have read "We" in it's original Russian, correct?

I'd love to hear a comparison/review, when you finish 1984.

Anti Federalist
11-09-2011, 09:44 PM
The future is fail.


Feds eye plan to make Internet snooping easier

http://www.foxbusiness.com/personal-finance/2010/09/27/feds-eye-plan-make-internet-snooping-easier/

The Obama Administration is reportedly considering a statute that would make it easier for federal authorities to intercept communications over services such as Facebook, Skype and BlackBerry -- an idea that's stoking anxiety within the privacy community.

The measure would force Internet companies that provide communications services to add in capabilities allowing federal authorities to intercept any messages on their networks, and to unscramble encrypted ones, the New York Times reported today .

The idea is being driven by law enforcement authorities worried that their ability to wiretap criminal and terrorism suspects is being eroded as more communications take place online rather than by phone.

A bill outlining the requirements could go to lawmakers sometime next year, the Times said.

Under the existing Communications Assistance to Law Enforcement Act (CALEA), telecommunications providers are already required to provide interception capabilities to federal law enforcement officials. The new proposals would extend that capability to the Internet.



Under the existing Communications Assistance to Law Enforcement Act (CALEA), telecommunications providers are already required to provide interception capabilities to federal law enforcement officials. The new proposals would extend that capability to the Internet.

heavenlyboy34
11-09-2011, 09:49 PM
I'm assuming your Russian is good enough to have read "We" in it's original Russian, correct?

I'd love to hear a comparison/review, when you finish 1984.
I've read some of the original Russian, but haven't had time to read all of it. I just got it late last year. I read the English translation in Soviet lit class ~5 years ago, and re-read it several times since. The Russian version definitely has a different "feel" to it, but the translations do a pretty decent job of conveying what the original text says. Unfortunately for you anglophones, there's no such thing as a "perfect" translation from Russian-English, but we can get pretty close. I will do a compare/contrast piece when I finish 1984. :cool:

For those brave enough or interested, here is the Russian translation of "We" ("Мы")- http://www.klassika.ru/read.html?proza/zamyatin/we.txt

John F Kennedy III
11-09-2011, 09:57 PM
I've read some of the original Russian, but haven't had time to read all of it. I just got it late last year. I read the English translation in Soviet lit class ~5 years ago, and re-read it several times since. The Russian version definitely has a different "feel" to it, but the translations do a pretty decent job of conveying what the original text says. Unfortunately for you anglophones, there's no such thing as a "perfect" translation from Russian-English, but we can get pretty close. I will do a compare/contrast piece when I finish 1984. :cool:

I'm looking forward to your comparison.

John F Kennedy III
11-09-2011, 09:58 PM
Also I need to put Brave New World and Atlas Shrugged on my near-future reading list.

Simple
11-09-2011, 10:10 PM
We've got new-speak. Sustainable development, smart planning, green energy, human development, climate change, social justice,...

heavenlyboy34
11-09-2011, 10:39 PM
Also I need to put Brave New World and Atlas Shrugged on my near-future reading list.
"Atlas" isn't that depressing or dystopian(IMO, but I'm only 4 chapters in). If you want something that more accurately depicts the Total State (our future, if things continue on their current path), "We" is a must-read. From what I've heard, "1984" is great too. I can't wait to finish that book. :)

Anti Federalist
11-09-2011, 10:50 PM
"Atlas" isn't that depressing or dystopian(IMO, but I'm only 4 chapters in). If you want something that more accurately depicts the Total State (our future, if things continue on their current path), "We" is a must-read. From what I've heard, "1984" is great too. I can't wait to finish that book. :)

There is scene where the protagonist is asked by the antagonist of the novel:

"Do you want to know the future? It is a boot, smashing a face, forever."

heavenlyboy34
11-09-2011, 10:58 PM
There is scene where the protagonist is asked by the antagonist of the novel:

"Do you want to know the future? It is a boot, smashing a face, forever."
I've seen that quote on these boards and several other places. Looking forward to reading it in context. :cool:

John F Kennedy III
11-09-2011, 11:12 PM
"Atlas" isn't that depressing or dystopian(IMO, but I'm only 4 chapters in). If you want something that more accurately depicts the Total State (our future, if things continue on their current path), "We" is a must-read. From what I've heard, "1984" is great too. I can't wait to finish that book. :)

1984 is a great book and I plan to read We as well as Brave New World and Atlas Shrugged.

Pericles
11-09-2011, 11:18 PM
Doubleplusungood.

Brian4Liberty
11-10-2011, 10:52 AM
I've seen that quote on these boards and several other places. Looking forward to reading it in context. :cool:

After my last re-reading of it, I was amazed at how much of the book is about torture and brainwashing. You kind of forget how much of the book is dedicated to that.

flightlesskiwi
11-10-2011, 11:18 AM
You know what's really scary?

I think they are awake.

I think this is what they want.

We've turned into a society of masochists, that like to be abused and beaten.

And Christ help us all if that's the case.

they are awake. and they are in love. in love with torture, stealing, lying, cheating, rape and killing. as long as it doesn't happen to them or force them to get involved. as long as it is from a distance. and as long as they have a feeling that all is well-- things are under some sort of control and they have a hand in that control.

when it becomes personal or gets too close or becomes too real, then the terror sets in.

but, in their entertainment-fogged uncritically thinking minds, there is always a disconnect between the two. they feel the love of one and the terror of the other and fail to realize both are intertwined and both lead to the same place.

a society enraptured with killing, petrified with death. it's not a good place to be.

flightlesskiwi
11-10-2011, 11:22 AM
I'm putting the over/under on yes votes at 95%.

i think you are right.

it will be placed in the context of:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh2sWSVRrmo

Anti Federalist
11-10-2011, 12:31 PM
Accurate!


they are awake. and they are in love. in love with torture, stealing, lying, cheating, rape and killing. as long as it doesn't happen to them or force them to get involved. as long as it is from a distance. and as long as they have a feeling that all is well-- things are under some sort of control and they have a hand in that control.

when it becomes personal or gets too close or becomes too real, then the terror sets in.

but, in their entertainment-fogged uncritically thinking minds, there is always a disconnect between the two. they feel the love of one and the terror of the other and fail to realize both are intertwined and both lead to the same place.

a society enraptured with killing, petrified with death. it's not a good place to be.

ShaneEnochs
11-10-2011, 01:12 PM
The answer, sadly, is a resounding no.

I was one of only 48 people out of over 100,000 that knew enough to exercise their rights when getting questioned by TSA "officers" at Logan airport

What do you mean? What did you do?

Anti Federalist
11-10-2011, 01:55 PM
What do you mean? What did you do?

Give me a minute, let me find the article about TSA "chat downs" at BOS.

Here it is:


So far, only 48 travelers out of about 132,000 who have been questioned here at Logan have refused to answer the questions, and instead their carry-on bags were physically searched.

http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/story/2011-10-13/Next-layer-of-air-security-Chat-downs-on-top-of-pat-downs/50757204/1

TSA started a new policy at Logan where they question you about where you are going, where you have been and why.

They punch you for a reaction and observe your response, based on some unknown, classified metrics, if you do not respond "correctly" you are dragged off for further questioning, detainment or even arrest.

This is critical to keep in mind: they do not care about your answers to any of these questions, they are only looking for your physical response to BEING questioned.

So even if you answer honestly, if you do it in a stuttering, nervous fashion, off you go. Not to mention that if any of the information you give these federal officers is incorrect, you have now just committed a federal felony.

freeforall
11-10-2011, 02:04 PM
Jeez. And all these years I've been indignant about being forced to pee in a cup every few months in order to keep my job. I wonder how long it will take before this fresh bullsh*t hits the transportation industry... :mad::mad:

i recently heard of someone losing a job for testing positive for nicotine.

ShaneEnochs
11-10-2011, 02:11 PM
i recently heard of someone losing a job for testing positive for nicotine.

A company that I previously worked for was considering doing this. They were pushing HARD to get people to stop smoking, so they said they were going to give people random tests for nicotine. Eventually, after a mob of angry workers formed, they backed down.

heavenlyboy34
11-10-2011, 02:22 PM
Damn, beat me to it!

As for me, I love Big Brother. ;)
Long live the One State! Long live the Numbers! Long live the Great Benefactor! (Да здравствуют Единого Государство! Да здравствуют нумера! Да здравствует Благодетель!) ;)

ShaneEnochs
11-10-2011, 03:08 PM
Give me a minute, let me find the article about TSA "chat downs" at BOS.

TSA started a new policy at Logan where they question you about where you are going, where you have been and why.

They punch you for a reaction and observe your response, based on some unknown, classified metrics, if you do not respond "correctly" you are dragged off for further questioning, detainment or even arrest.

This is critical to keep in mind: they do not care about your answers to any of these questions, they are only looking for your physical response to BEING questioned.

So even if you answer honestly, if you do it in a stuttering, nervous fashion, off you go. Not to mention that if any of the information you give these federal officers is incorrect, you have now just committed a federal felony.

What nonsense. I was lucky. The first (and only) time I flew was right before they started doing all the crazier stuff like the pat downs and the screening. I refuse to go on a flight where beforehand I might be legally molested. Screw that. I've been driving from my house to Chicago to visit my fiance's parents about once a month. 8 hour drive. Not only is it cheaper, but I get to keep my civil liberties and it makes for an adventure every time.

Anti Federalist
11-10-2011, 04:32 PM
What nonsense. I was lucky. The first (and only) time I flew was right before they started doing all the crazier stuff like the pat downs and the screening. I refuse to go on a flight where beforehand I might be legally molested. Screw that. I've been driving from my house to Chicago to visit my fiance's parents about once a month. 8 hour drive. Not only is it cheaper, but I get to keep my civil liberties and it makes for an adventure every time.

While I certainly don't blame you, just keep in mind that boycotting or refusing to fly isn't going to stop this.

TSA is already expanding its operations to roads as well.

John F Kennedy III
11-10-2011, 04:41 PM
i recently heard of someone losing a job for testing positive for nicotine.

I believe it. And that is beyond ridiculous.

John F Kennedy III
11-10-2011, 04:42 PM
While I certainly don't blame you, just keep in mind that boycotting or refusing to fly isn't going to stop this.

TSA is already expanding its operations to roads as well.

Yes it is. Americans love their tyranny.

ShaneEnochs
11-10-2011, 05:28 PM
What is the TSA doing, setting up check points?

heavenlyboy34
11-10-2011, 05:39 PM
Yes it is. Americans love their tyranny.
Truth. Especially when it can be decorated with a flag. :(:p

John F Kennedy III
11-10-2011, 05:45 PM
Truth. Especially when it can be decorated with a flag. :(:p

Yep :(

Johnny Appleseed
11-10-2011, 06:11 PM
I wonder if Orwells world would have been one of life, liberty and happiness if thats what we would have had.

Anti Federalist
11-10-2011, 06:44 PM
What is the TSA doing, setting up check points?

Yes, TSA Viper (VIPR) roadblocks.



More States Accept TSA VIPR Teams at Transportation Hubs

Kurt Nimmo
Infowars.com
November 8, 2011

http://www.infowars.com/more-states-accept-tsa-vipr-teams-at-transportation-hubs/

The effort by the Department of Homeland Security and the TSA to expand their operations from airports to state roads and beyond is being accepted by state and local governments around the country, according to AllGov.com, a website covering government activity.

AllGov.com reports today that other “states are expected to follow and accept VIPR (Visible Intermodal Prevention and Response) at their transportation hubs” following recent operations in Tennessee.

Anti Federalist
11-10-2011, 06:52 PM
I wonder if Orwells world would have been one of life, liberty and happiness if thats what we would have had.

Interesting point, but probably not.

The human condition, the default mode if you will, of humanity, is and always has been, oppression and tyranny.

That is why the document you quoted was so radical in its day, and why now, in our time, it will get you arrested if read in the right (wrong?) place or circumstances.


That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

John F Kennedy III
11-10-2011, 09:15 PM
In other words, we need to get rid of this government and replace it with one that will follow our Constitution.

heavenlyboy34
11-10-2011, 09:21 PM
In other words, we need to get rid of this government and replace it with one that will follow our Constitution.
If history is any indicator, it'll never happen. But I wish you the best of fortunes in your endeavour. :toady::toady:

Seraphim
11-10-2011, 09:24 PM
What's worse is that England IS the Orwellian society, the USA is almost there.

John F Kennedy III
11-10-2011, 09:34 PM
If history is any indicator, it'll never happen. But I wish you the best of fortunes in your endeavour. :toady::toady:

Lol thanks. Yeah we're fucked. But it doesn't hurt to be optimistic.

Johnny Appleseed
11-10-2011, 10:00 PM
I believe if the Good Dr. can get in there and cut out the dead tissue we'll pull through but if the american people refuse treatment then welcome to zombie land

mrsat_98
11-10-2011, 10:13 PM
Hmmm If you see something say somethng. Oh Janet , Oh Eric look what I saw. http://justiceforjerryandjoekane.com/

PierzStyx
11-10-2011, 10:41 PM
You know what's really scary?

I think they are awake.

I think this is what they want.

We've turned into a society of masochists, that like to be abused and beaten.

And Christ help us all if that's the case.


You are exactly right. This IS what the people want. And Christ can't help us since God himself doesn't force Himself on your mind though He has the power to do so.

PierzStyx
11-10-2011, 10:45 PM
With gin scented tears? :p

Ok guys you've made me talk myself into it. I'm going to order a copy of 1984 :). I haven't read it in 3 years...


Every man woman and child should own, read, and understand 1984, Fahrenheit 451, and Brave New World. Between all of them they describe the coming society perfectly. Brave and F451 perfectly describe the willful idiocy we enter into all for our rush and pleasure though it is destroying our very self, our mind, our human-ness.

lx43
11-10-2011, 11:17 PM
See that's just it, I'm in the transportation industry as well.

I, like you, have to suffer the piss in the cup indiginty as well.

This has nothing to do with government.

This is a conspiracy of the major players in my business (oil companies) to do it on their own, government is not requiring this.

You'll go into an industry wide database, and if you fail or refuse or try to exercise your rights and resist, you go into the "blackball" list, your name is reported to various drug enforcement authorities, you will never work in the industry again and you will more than likely get a SWAT raid because of it.

Depending on what you do within the transportation system I can understand why they give the pee test. Several years ago one of the truck drivers for my families business was driving under the influence of drugs. The 18 wheeler he was driving ran the red light killing the person in the car resulting in a large out of court settlement we had to pay the family.

Before this incident we did not test for drugs, but if we had we would have discovered this guy was an habitual user and possibly not having this poor person dead and us having this settlement we had to pay. The attorney recommend we settle out of court because the punitive damages could have been much higher due to us not testing our drivers regularly.

We do the test now just to cover our ass and, unfortunately, when you test one group of employees, you have to test them ALL (if we don't test all we are looking at a potential lawsuit there). Its damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Personally, I wish drugs where legalized; its your body you should be able to do what you want with it.

John F Kennedy III
11-10-2011, 11:27 PM
I believe if the Good Dr. can get in there and cut out the dead tissue we'll pull through but if the american people refuse treatment then welcome to zombie land

It's highly probable that it's too late for Ron to save. But getting him elected is for sure our last chance. If Dr. Paul doesn't get elected there won't be anything left for Rand to save.

Anti Federalist
11-10-2011, 11:45 PM
Yet another reason why freedom will die unless something seriously changes.

Using that legal logic, nothing will be out of bounds, if you are held liable.

But why should the company be held liable in this case anyway?

It would be one thing if you passed out prescription meth and told your driver to run for 36 hours straight. Obviously that's not the case, and I'm sure you didn't encourage this.

The only person who should be liable here is the person who crashed while under the influence.

And aren't CDL holders piss tested on regular basis anyway?


Depending on what you do within the transportation system I can understand why they give the pee test. Several years ago one of the truck drivers for my families business was driving under the influence of drugs. The 18 wheeler he was driving ran the red light killing the person in the car resulting in a large out of court settlement we had to pay the family.

Before this incident we did not test for drugs, but if we had we would have discovered this guy was an habitual user and possibly not having this poor person dead and us having this settlement we had to pay. The attorney recommend we settle out of court because the punitive damages could have been much higher due to us not testing our drivers regularly.

We do the test now just to cover our ass and, unfortunately, when you test one group of employees, you have to test them ALL (if we don't test all we are looking at a potential lawsuit there). Its damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Personally, I wish drugs where legalized; its your body you should be able to do what you want with it.

lx43
11-10-2011, 11:53 PM
Yet another reason why freedom will die unless something seriously changes.

Using that legal logic, nothing will be out of bounds, if you are held liable.

But why should the company be held liable in this case anyway?

It would be one thing if you passed out prescription meth and told your driver to run for 36 hours straight. Obviously that's not the case, and I'm sure you didn't encourage this.

The only person who should be liable here is the person who crashed while under the influence.

And aren't CDL holders piss tested on regular basis anyway?

This occurred over a decade a go, at the time we didn't require it for our company.

As far as being held liable, we owned the tractor trailer. But as far us being held liable, I don't think we should have been as owners because we didn't do it, our employee did. We never encouraged any employees to do any drugs or anything else on the job. He should have been held liable for it.

KCIndy
11-10-2011, 11:59 PM
We do the test now just to cover our ass and, unfortunately, when you test one group of employees, you have to test them ALL (if we don't test all we are looking at a potential lawsuit there). Its damned if you do and damned if you don't.


Are you sure you're not getting some bad info there? Federal law requires a company to conduct random tests of 25% of their CDL holders ever quarter. In other words, every three months a driver has a 1 in 4 chance of being subject to a "random."

I'm a CDL holder, and in the past I've gone for as long as an entire year for being tested. Then there was the one year that I was "lucky" enough to get tagged in each and every quarter.

Pericles
11-11-2011, 12:08 AM
Hmmm If you see something say somethng. Oh Janet , Oh Eric look what I saw. http://justiceforjerryandjoekane.com/

If I see something, I'm going to shoot something:

lx43
11-11-2011, 12:11 AM
Are you sure you're not getting some bad info there? Federal law requires a company to conduct random tests of 25% of their CDL holders ever quarter. In other words, every three months a driver has a 1 in 4 chance of being subject to a "random."

I'm a CDL holder, and in the past I've gone for as long as an entire year for being tested. Then there was the one year that I was "lucky" enough to get tagged in each and every quarter.

I might be, I'll have to ask our legal counsel about the case again to refresh my memory. This accident occurred in mid 1990s. My understanding was that we didn't test drivers at the time, which we may have been violating 1 out of 5 billion federal, state, or local laws that we are required to know.

KCIndy
11-11-2011, 12:34 AM
I might be, I'll have to ask our legal counsel about the case again to refresh my memory. This accident occurred in mid 1990s. My understanding was that we didn't test drivers at the time, which we may have been violating 1 out of 5 billion federal, state, or local laws that we are required to know.


Yeah, if you weren't testing your drivers at all, you were in violation of Federal law. I'm pretty sure (I don't have time to dig out my "Big Book" at the moment) that the law states that you are required to test 25% of your drivers at random each quarter. I'm also pretty sure that the random selection of the drivers to be tested must be performed by a third party, NOT by the company.

And for those of you reading this who aren't in the trucking business and might wonder why it's so hard to keep up with regulations... well.... let me introduce you to the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations Handbook:

849
http://www.jjkeller.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_Federal-Motor-Carrier-Safety-Regulations-Handbook_10151_-1_10551_59819

This is the book that contains most - but not all - of the Federal regulations applying to the trucking industry. This monster is 8.5 X 11 inches with 608 pages. Yeah.

There's absolutely no way that anyone can memorize and be familiar with every regulation, exemption from regulation, and exemption from the exemption from the regulation (I'm not kidding) that is listed in this book.

Oh yeah - and just to add to the confusion, it's updated quarterly in order to keep up with all the new laws and changes to the old laws that keep getting passed by Congress and a dozen other transportation related departments.

As much as anything else, this illustrates to me the absolute insanity of the overreaching morass that the Federal government has become.

John F Kennedy III
05-26-2012, 04:57 PM
Bump

Anti Federalist
05-26-2012, 05:36 PM
This is the book that contains most - but not all - of the Federal regulations applying to the trucking industry. This monster is 8.5 X 11 inches with 608 pages. Yeah.

My god, is that it???

I'm going to truck driving school.

Your post prompted me to count them up.

The CFR's (Code of Federal Regulations) related to this vessel, that we are required to carry on board and comply with are compromised of 18 volumes, ranging in page count from 201, the smallest, to 1046, the largest. The average is roughly 550 pages.

There are an additional 27 volumes of UN mandated SOLAS and IMO regulations.

There are, in addition to that, 62 volumes of assorted 2, 3 and 4 inch binders of company, customer and operational policies to know and comply with.

6 shelves, 4 feet wide, all stacked full of all the rules regulations and edicts I have to comply with.

Violation of any could result in job loss, civil fines or jail time, even for non negligent non compliance.

heavenlyboy34
05-26-2012, 05:41 PM
My god, is that it???

I'm going to truck driving school.

Your post prompted me to count them up.

The CFR's (Code of Federal Regulations) related to this vessel, that we are required to carry on board and comply with are compromised of 18 volumes, ranging in page count from 201, the smallest, to 1046, the largest. The average is roughly 550 pages.

There are an additional 27 volumes of UN mandated SOLAS and IMO regulations.

There are, in addition to that, 62 volumes of assorted 2, 3 and 4 inch binders of company, customer and operational policies to know and comply with.

6 shelves, 4 feet wide, all stacked full of all the rules regulations and edicts I have to comply with.

Violation of any could result in job loss, civil fines or jail time, even for non negligent non compliance.
How the hell do you manage that? Keep your lawyer on speed dial? :confused::eek:

Anti Federalist
05-26-2012, 05:58 PM
How the hell do you manage that? Keep your lawyer on speed dial? :confused::eek:

You laugh.

I tell my crew that I have no need for a toucan on my shoulder like a pirate of old.

I carry a lawyer bird on my shoulder, and that's no shit, every move I make, the lawyer bird pipes up and reminds to check the rules and ramifications of every single thing I do.

Hopefully that provides a little insight into why my comments on things tend to get overly complex in legalese and grim in the assessment of consequences.

Taking into account this is business with wild gyrations in profit and wages, I am paid, very, very, well for my services.

And more and more it's becoming not worth it; my shoreside customer liaison/dispatcher, who is under an equally heavy regulatory burden, just dropped dead from a heart attack last Monday. Damn good guy too.

I am getting more and more frustrated, I did not choose this life to become some half assed marine paralegal and paper shuffler, in fact, I chose it for just the opposite reasons.

TheTexan
05-26-2012, 06:00 PM
Hmmm If you see something say somethng. Oh Janet , Oh Eric look what I saw. http://justiceforjerryandjoekane.com/

I never heard about that until now. Truth or fiction?

heavenlyboy34
05-26-2012, 06:13 PM
You laugh.

I tell my crew that I have no need for a toucan on my shoulder like a pirate of old.

I carry a lawyer bird on my shoulder, and that's no shit, every move I make, the lawyer bird pipes up and reminds to check the rules and ramifications of every single thing I do.

Hopefully that provides a little insight into why my comments on things tend to get overly complex in legalese and grim in the assessment of consequences.

Taking into account this is business with wild gyrations in profit and wages, I am paid, very, very, well for my services.

And more and more it's becoming not worth it; my shoreside customer liaison/dispatcher, who is under an equally heavy regulatory burden, just dropped dead from a heart attack last Monday. Damn good guy too.

I am getting more and more frustrated, I did not choose this life to become some half assed marine paralegal and paper shuffler, in fact, I chose it for just the opposite reasons.
Damn, that sucks, bro. :( /hugs

Kluge
05-26-2012, 06:36 PM
The answer, sadly, is a resounding no.

I was one of only 48 people out of over 100,000 that knew enough to exercise their rights when getting questioned by TSA "officers" at Logan airport.

And it's coming at from all side, government and private sector.

I was just notified that if I wanted to continue to work in my industry, I would have to submit to hair follicle drug testing (and got knows what else the fuckers will snoop around in my DNA looking for). But, as we all know, private corporations can't tyrannize anybody, only government can.

"You're free to get another job."

"I can't get another job, because everybody is doing it."

"Oh well, you're free to die, I guess."

Can you take some of your muttley's fur, kinda stick it on your head, and just give them that when it comes time to test? If they're only testing for drugs, they shouldn't notice that it's dog fur--at least with your kind of dog. If they come back and say that it's dog DNA, then you know they're gathering DNA.

ETA: Yeah, that'd probably get you fired. :p

Origanalist
05-26-2012, 06:42 PM
This type of shit needs to stop. People need to wake up and start caring. Though I'm sure not enough will until they wake up in a FEMA camp or Pentagon cold-sleep box.

And until that happens you will get the standard "if you're not doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about".

Kluge
05-26-2012, 07:01 PM
The link that Anti-Fed posted for 1984 was not working for me, so I found a different one if anyone had the same problem:

http://www.liferesearchuniversal.com/orwell.html

thoughtomator
05-26-2012, 07:13 PM
I wonder how long before 1984 is banned in the USA?

Henry Rogue
05-26-2012, 07:54 PM
I think I read 1984 in 1984. Can't believe that was 28 years ago already. Time goes by fast and somethings do change a lot, like how much freedom we have now or lack there of. I've forgot a lot of the book. I'll have to dust it off and take a fresh look.

heavenlyboy34
05-26-2012, 08:17 PM
I wonder how long before 1984 is banned in the USA?
Probably not too long-particularly in public libraries. It seems that it's books that threaten the establishment at any given time that get banned. Kinda like "Huckleberry Finn".

John F Kennedy III
05-26-2012, 09:38 PM
And until that happens you will get the standard "if you're not doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about".

Yeah. Damn sheeple.

kuckfeynes
05-26-2012, 10:06 PM
I was actually told that 1984 was a banned book in my high school in the 90s, as well as a bunch of others. Henry Miller and William S. Burroughs were others I remember. My English teacher told me if I brought the books to school no one would care, but technically they were banned and could not be discussed in class. Checked the library which was not tiny, and sure enough none were there.

heavenlyboy34
05-26-2012, 10:10 PM
I was actually told that 1984 was a banned book in my high school in the 90s, as well as a bunch of others. Henry Miller and William S. Burroughs were others I remember. My English teacher told me if I brought the books to school no one would care, but technically they were banned and could not be discussed in class. Checked the library which was not tiny, and sure enough none were there.
Successful Thought Police are successful. :(