PDA

View Full Version : What authority for Obama's Ag dept to issue new tax on all Christimas tree sales?




sailingaway
11-08-2011, 09:56 PM
http://visiontoamerica.org/5404/obama-couldn%E2%80%99t-wait-his-new-christmas-tree-tax/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+VisionToAmerica+%28Vision+to+ America%29

Miss Annie
11-08-2011, 10:02 PM
"To improve the image and marketing of Christmas Trees"? Oh yea, I bet they change their name to Holiday trees so there won't be any reference to Jesus anymore. That would cost about 15 cents per tree to move that message! Hmmph!

RSLudlum
11-08-2011, 10:21 PM
After reading about this new tax on EconomicPolicyJournal.com (http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2011/11/obama-institutes-new-christmas-tree-tax.html), I searched last year's sales for Christmas trees. According to the National Christmas Tree Association (http://www.christmastree.org/statistics_consumer.cfm), 27 million real trees were sold last year. If the same number is sold this year, this tax could bring in approximately $4million dollars for gov't run advertisement of the Christmas tree industry.

Thank you, bureaucrats for raising the price of Christmas trees to advertise for Christmas trees on all the Christmas tree purchasers' behalf.

sailingaway
11-08-2011, 10:26 PM
After reading about this new tax on EconomicPolicyJournal.com (http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2011/11/obama-institutes-new-christmas-tree-tax.html), I searched last year's sales for Christmas trees. According to the National Christmas Tree Association (http://www.christmastree.org/statistics_consumer.cfm), 27 million real trees were sold last year. If the same number is sold this year, this tax could bring in approximately $4million dollars for gov't run advertisement of the Christmas tree industry.

Thank you, bureaucrats for raising the price of Christmas trees to advertise for Christmas trees on all the Christmas tree purchasers' behalf.

But what AUTHORITY does an executive branch agency have to create a tax by fiat?

torchbearer
11-08-2011, 10:27 PM
can we skip the whole consumer holiday thing this year?

Anti Federalist
11-08-2011, 10:31 PM
But what AUTHORITY does an executive branch agency have to create a tax by fiat?

Shit, it's now a matter of settled fact that the Executive can assassinate US citizens and go to war just on the Executive's say so alone.

Think they give a rat's ass about imposing some taxation as well?

Hail Caesar.

Pizzo
11-08-2011, 10:34 PM
As small as it is, is this not considered a federal sales tax?

BattleFlag1776
11-08-2011, 10:38 PM
But what AUTHORITY does an executive branch agency have to create a tax by fiat?

There is a lot of legislation that includes language that states "the Secretary can at his/her discretion..." Best example is the EPA actually just making it up as they go according to their own opinions. I'm thinking this probably falls into that category, though I'm sure the Sec of Ag would tell you that this is a "fee" not a "tax."

sailingaway
11-08-2011, 10:49 PM
As small as it is, is this not considered a federal sales tax?

exactly. I think they are seeing if they can get by with a small one, to set a precedent.

sailingaway
11-08-2011, 10:50 PM
There is a lot of legislation that includes language that states "the Secretary can at his/her discretion..." Best example is the EPA actually just making it up as they go according to their own opinions. I'm thinking this probably falls into that category, though I'm sure the Sec of Ag would tell you that this is a "fee" not a "tax."

Taxes have to start in the HOUSE by the Constitution.

Pizzo
11-08-2011, 10:51 PM
exactly. I think they are seeing if they can get by with a small one, to set a precedent.

As they always do. SOB's.

amy31416
11-08-2011, 11:04 PM
Sweet. New black market for Christmas trees...fucking Christmas trees.

damn

Anti Federalist
11-08-2011, 11:10 PM
Sweet. New black market for Christmas trees...fucking Christmas trees.

damn

You got a problem with that, Mundane?

Reported.

amy31416
11-08-2011, 11:23 PM
You got a problem with that, Mundane?

Reported.

Not at all. But come see me around December 22nd, so we can discuss the matter further. I don't have any string lights, ornaments or anything you'd possibly want, so it's safe.

We can discuss higher taxes for coffee over a cup of coffee.

pcosmar
11-08-2011, 11:24 PM
But what AUTHORITY does an executive branch agency have to create a tax by fiat?


Taxes have to start in the HOUSE by the Constitution.

Where the hell have you been living?
They will do as they damn well please, and don't care if you don't like it.
:(

are you wanting to be the next drone strike?

Warrior_of_Freedom
11-08-2011, 11:24 PM
I wonder if this includes synthetic christmas trees. :P

amy31416
11-08-2011, 11:27 PM
Sweet. New black market for Christmas trees...fucking Christmas trees.

damn

Oh shit. I'm supposed to cut down on swearing too. Dammit.

BattleFlag1776
11-08-2011, 11:39 PM
Taxes have to start in the HOUSE by the Constitution.

I totally agree and I was as baffled as you are so I dug a little. Congress has already given authorization via the "Commodity Promotion, Research and Information Act of 1996." As I was suspecting, the "tax" is being promoted as a "fee."

RSLudlum
11-08-2011, 11:45 PM
I wonder if this includes synthetic christmas trees. :P

Nah ;), but these are some interesting tidbits from the NCTA site (http://www.christmastree.org/statistics_consumer.cfm):


The 2010 poll results show that consumers in the U.S. purchased 28.2 million farm-grown Christmas trees and 10.6 million artificial trees. Real Trees outsell fake trees by an almost 3 to 1 margin.

Consumers spend almost twice as much on Real Christmas Trees grown on farms through the U.S. and Canada than they do on new artificial Christmas trees, most of which are produced in Chinese factories.

Kylie
11-09-2011, 12:29 AM
Are they that hard up that they need to hit the "holiday" season with a new tax, or is this just setting up the whole 9-9-9 thing now......but making it more like "15-raising it to 66%-all your base" by the time they're done?

sailingaway
11-09-2011, 12:31 AM
I totally agree and I was as baffled as you are so I dug a little. Congress has already given authorization via the "Commodity Promotion, Research and Information Act of 1996." As I was suspecting, the "tax" is being promoted as a "fee."

The supreme court found the line item veto to be unconstitutional delegation of powers contrary to separation of powers. Given how specific the Constitution is on where taxes must arise, how could this be more constitutional?

BattleFlag1776
11-09-2011, 12:58 AM
The supreme court found the line item veto to be unconstitutional delegation of powers contrary to separation of powers. Given how specific the Constitution is on where taxes must arise, how could this be more constitutional?

It's not in my book. Personally, I am as literal as you when it comes to not only taxes, but legislation in general. However, the reality is that Congress is all too eager to pass these broad, open-ended acts that provide the branches way too much discretionary power. Heck, I don't even really consider Christmas trees to be a true agricultural commodity because there is no such thing as a "Christmas tree" but rather trees decorated for Christmas so I'd go farther and say that this executive scheme is just that, a scheme.

oyarde
11-09-2011, 11:43 AM
Shit, it's now a matter of settled fact that the Executive can assassinate US citizens and go to war just on the Executive's say so alone.

Think they give a rat's ass about imposing some taxation as well?

Hail Caesar. I would prefer the tax rate of Ceasar or King George ....

oyarde
11-09-2011, 11:46 AM
Sweet. New black market for Christmas trees...fucking Christmas trees.

damn I will make you a deal on one , without the tax :) , if they catch me , I will be able to show I sold only 499 , which will exclude me from the tax ;)

oyarde
11-09-2011, 11:47 AM
Oh shit. I'm supposed to cut down on swearing too. Dammit. No need to do it on my behalf

Anti Federalist
11-09-2011, 11:48 AM
I would prefer the tax rate of Ceasar or King George ....

Well played

oyarde
11-09-2011, 11:49 AM
I wonder if this includes synthetic christmas trees. :P Just fresh cut .

FreeTraveler
11-09-2011, 11:49 AM
Authority? They don't need no stinkin' authority. All they need is a judicial system owned by the state that says whatever they do is okey-dokey by them.

oyarde
11-09-2011, 11:50 AM
Does this increase the value of my ceramic tree ?

oyarde
11-09-2011, 11:54 AM
After reading about this new tax on EconomicPolicyJournal.com (http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2011/11/obama-institutes-new-christmas-tree-tax.html), I searched last year's sales for Christmas trees. According to the National Christmas Tree Association (http://www.christmastree.org/statistics_consumer.cfm), 27 million real trees were sold last year. If the same number is sold this year, this tax could bring in approximately $4million dollars for gov't run advertisement of the Christmas tree industry.

Thank you, bureaucrats for raising the price of Christmas trees to advertise for Christmas trees on all the Christmas tree purchasers' behalf. Will they need additional IRS people for this ? Or will there be a new Christmas Tree Tax Police Agency ? Will there be a Menorah tax later ?

Philhelm
11-09-2011, 12:06 PM
I would prefer the tax rate of Ceasar or King George ....

There's not enough +rep for this comment. Also consider that neither of them would ever think of shutting down an eight-year-old girl's lemonade stand. Food for thought.

jkob
11-09-2011, 12:10 PM
A Christmas tree tax to promote Christmas trees? Seriously?

Ron should bring this up in the debate tonight, could get him some attention. If he doesn't somebody else will, GOP voters would eat up red meat like this.

CaptainAmerica
11-09-2011, 12:18 PM
Obama is the definition of a dictator,...a Julius Caesar.

oyarde
11-09-2011, 12:23 PM
Dept of Ag needs abolished , you guys ever get bored , look up the bloated budget on that , despicable .

seraphson
11-09-2011, 12:47 PM
can we skip the whole consumer holiday thing this year?

That's what I'm talking about. Of course I buy gifts but now parts of the family just get together and get a really nice meal instead of buying crap.

oyarde
11-09-2011, 12:52 PM
That's what I'm talking about. Of course I buy gifts but now parts of the family just get together and get a really nice meal instead of buying crap. Dinner & family is the best part for adults .

Anti Federalist
11-09-2011, 01:26 PM
I wonder if this includes synthetic christmas trees. :P

No, those are made in China, which, we all know anything made there is just wide ass open to the market here.

Anyway, moot.

The plan to tax trees was dropped.

sailingaway
11-09-2011, 02:22 PM
No, those are made in China, which, we all know anything made there is just wide ass open to the market here.

Anyway, moot.

The plan to tax trees was dropped.

Good. They put it up the flag pole and it was shot down, as it should have been.

Anti Federalist
11-09-2011, 02:46 PM
Good. They put it up the flag pole and it was shot down, as it should have been.

That won't be the end of it though.

It'll get run up some other flagpole, some other time, for some other reason.

They just keep pushing.

ETA - Besides its just a "delay".

Obama Administration to Delay New 15-Cent Christmas Tree Tax

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/11/obama-administration-to-delay-new-15-cent-christmas-tree-fee/

The U.S. Department of Agriculture is going to delay implementation and revisit a proposed new 15 cent fee on fresh-cut Christmas trees, sources tell ABC News. The fee, requested by the National Christmas Tree Association in 2009, was first announced in the Federal Registry yesterday and has generated criticism of President Obama from conservative media outlets.

The well-trafficked Drudge Report is leading with the story, linking to a blog by David Addington, a former top aide to then-Vice President Dick Cheney, at the conservative Heritage Foundation assailing the president thus: “The economy is barely growing and nine percent of the American people have no jobs. Is a new tax on Christmas trees the best President Obama can do? And, by the way, the American Christmas tree has a great image that doesn’t need any help from the government.”

devil21
11-09-2011, 02:50 PM
Sounds like it's just a subsidy for the tree grower industry, since more families will forego the tree as the economy gets worse. They're already godawful expensive.

amy31416
11-09-2011, 05:20 PM
Sounds like it's just a subsidy for the tree grower industry, since more families will forego the tree as the economy gets worse. They're already godawful expensive.

Yeah they are. I used to sell them during Christmas break while I was in college and I was shocked at how much they go for now. That said--nothing beats a Frasier fir.