[Video] The Cain Media Circus Continues: " He Reached For My Genitals"

[Immortal Technique]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0-mVKhec_I

Ok, how we handle this could be crucial folks, Cain is leading in a lot of polls, we need those votes.Try and be polite to his supporters about this. ;)

[Brian4Liberty]

Let me try to be polite to Cain supporters. This is nothing more than gossip and smear on an epic scale. This woman initiated a meeting at a Hotel to ask about a job? She doesn't have e-mail or a phone? Right... My grandmother would never buy this nonsense. She would have a name for this woman, and it wouldn't be complimentary.

She didn't want to be there talking about this on this stage? No potential money from this? Fifteen minutes of fame?

[specsaregood]

She doesn't have e-mail or a phone?

Emails and cellphones weren't nearly as ubiquitous in '97.

[Brian4Liberty]

Emails and cellphones weren't nearly as ubiquitous in '97.

Yeah, Cain might not have used e-mail at that point, or even today. But telephone calls were used for contacting people, and US mail could deliver a paper resume.

[specsaregood]

Yeah, Cain might not have used e-mail at that point, or even today. But telephone calls were used for contacting people, and US mail could deliver a paper resume.

Right, but she said she was gonna be in DC anyways and wantd to setup a meeting and suggested "over coffee". she didn't suggest meeting in her hotel room, he suggested meeting in the hotel bar in response to her suggesting of coffee. she didnt' come off as some loose bimbo to me.

[Krugerrand]

Right, but she said she was gonna be in DC anyways and wantd to setup a meeting and suggested "over coffee". she didn't suggest meeting in her hotel room, he suggested meeting in the hotel bar in response to her suggesting of coffee. she didnt' come off as some loose bimbo to me.

No, but the situation was 'upgraded' twice already. ... the hotel room to suite and the coffee to fancy dinner.

Sleazy, yes. Assault on marriage fidelity, yes.

More than that ... a bit of a stretch, especially without being there and this long afterwards.

[amonasro]

In person meetings are much more effective at getting what you want in the business world.

Her boyfriend supposedly suggested it.

[Krugerrand]

In person meetings are much more effective at getting what you want in the business world.

Her boyfriend supposedly suggested it.

This was a long time ago. Could there have been dialog that any reasonable person would have interpreted to lead Cain into thinking she was on the same page as him?

[specsaregood]

No, but the situation was 'upgraded' twice already. ... the hotel room to suite and the coffee to fancy dinner.

But she didn't know he had upgraded the suite until she was already meeting with him; and I'd have to listen to it again but I think the dinner was the same way.
ie: when she went to meet him she did not plan on him upgrading her suite or going to a fancy dinner.

[libertygrl]

Let me try to be polite to Cain supporters. This is nothing more than gossip and smear on an epic scale. This woman initiated a meeting at a Hotel to ask about a job? She doesn't have e-mail or a phone? Right... My grandmother would never buy this nonsense. She would have a name for this woman, and it wouldn't be complimentary.

She didn't want to be there talking about this on this stage? No potential money from this? Fifteen minutes of fame?

Wait a minute. She has to stay at a hotel because she's not from that area. They meet in public in the hotel lobby and then for dinner at a restaurant just like any BUSINESS MAN would do. It's called having a BUSINESS DINNER. He assults her in his car and SHE'S looked upon as a slut?? I guess something's never change. :rolleyes:

[Krugerrand]

But she didn't know he had upgraded the suite until she was already meeting with him; and I'd have to listen to it again but I think the dinner was the same way.
ie: when she went to meet him she did not plan on him upgrading her suite or going to a fancy dinner.

I believe this came up over the course of the dinner. It's really hard to presume what all was discussed over that dinner. I think it's very likely the dinner conversation could have led to him thinking she was on the same page.

[FreeTraveler]

Yeah, I think assuming this is a groupie going for the gold is, frankly, bullshit. Most sane people aren't the least bit interested in paying the price they have to for 15 minutes of this kind of fame -- I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt over Pee-Wee Hermie.

And one thing we could do to handle this would be learn to spell genitals.

[amonasro]

This was a long time ago. Could there have been dialog that any reasonable person would have interpreted to lead Cain into thinking she was on the same page as him?

Possibly. Probably not though. She had just been fired--when that happens you start networking to look for a new job. She probably met with more people than just Cain.

[Cowlesy]

He should just take a stupid polygraph and get this put to bed.

[specsaregood]

He should just take a stupid polygraph and get this put to bed.
With such a poor choice of words ^, perhaps you should go to work for his campaign.

[Brian4Liberty]

Right, but she said she was gonna be in DC anyways and wantd to setup a meeting and suggested "over coffee". she didn't suggest meeting in her hotel room, he suggested meeting in the hotel bar in response to her suggesting of coffee. she didnt' come off as some loose bimbo to me.

She specifically said that she went to Washington to meet with Cain in person, and her boyfriend made a room reservation for her. The boyfriend did not go to Washington. Cain called the Hotel and had her room upgraded, but she and her boyfriend had made the initial reservation.

[Brian4Liberty]

In person meetings are much more effective at getting what you want in the business world.

Her boyfriend supposedly suggested it.

Harder to flirt over the phone?

[freeforall]

I feel bad for her. I'm inclined to think this did happen. She has probably been told all week how brave she is and how much she is helping women that have been in this situation. Then she had to stand their silently as the questions about her motives and character begin. So after 14 years of feeling like an idiot for getting into that situation she is now reliving that humiliation while in the midst of something else that will haunt her forever regardless of how it plays out.

[specsaregood]

Harder to flirt over the phone?

Have you never met anybody for a business meeting? I've met lots of business contacts at hotels, and we didn't meet there so we could go bang each other.

[Krugerrand]

Have you never met anybody for a business meeting? I've met lots of business contacts at hotels, and we didn't meet there so we could go bang each other.

It's quote possible - and I believe probably - that her intentions were innocent. It's also possible that she missed cues from the conversation that would have indicated were Cain thought things were leading.

It's darn hard to tell this far removed from the events.

[Brian4Liberty]

Wait a minute. She has to stay at a hotel because she's not from that area. They meet in public in the hotel lobby and then for dinner at a restaurant just like any BUSINESS MAN would do. It's called having a BUSINESS DINNER. He assults her in his car and SHE'S looked upon as a slut?? I guess something's never change. :rolleyes:

She said she was two hours away. She could have taken the train back. Many people have long commutes. She did not have to stay in a hotel. It sounds more like he made a awkward and misguided pass at her, after she had given some mixed signals. Are you saying she responded to an assault by saying "but I have a boyfriend"? She asked him to stop, he did.

Nobody was with them, so this is all he said/she said, and assumptions. But what she is actually claiming sounds like a misunderstanding which resulted in him making a pass at her, she rejected, he quit. Is this something that should be tried in the media by Gloria Allred? Should government be involved in the smallest details of every single human interaction, misunderstanding and petty disagreement? I guess somethings never change. :rolleyes:

[specsaregood]

//

[sailingaway]

What is hilarious about this is that some are sure she led him on at dinner and some are sure she didn't. We have no clue, except about what she said, and from that it sounds pretty bad for Cain. Being that he was married, that she didn't TURN DOWN already upgraded room and dinner that he had put in place, so he assumed acquiescence with a plan, is not going to be a winning tactic. At best, that line of defense would be saying when she came to him, a married man she had known from work, for help with a job, he tried to turn it into a date, and thought he had succeeded. Doubt voters would approve, even without the rest.

We'll see where it goes from here.

[Brian4Liberty]

Have you never met anybody for a business meeting? I've met lots of business contacts at hotels, and we didn't meet there so we could go bang each other.

Business lunch or large group dinners, yes. And obviously a lot of conventions are held at hotels. But now that you mention it, many one on one, male/female, hotel business meetings that I have heard about resulted in "banging". It happens.

[Brian4Liberty]

True that, in the end the only thing that seems certain is that Cain is a monumentous douchebag with a history of at least attempting to cheat on his wife.

No argument there. Mrs. Cain and the rest of his family will not be pleased.

[sailingaway]

Business lunch or large group dinners, yes. And obviously a lot of conventions are held at hotels. But now that you mention it, many one on one, male/female, hotel business meetings that I have heard about resulted in "banging". It happens.

It also quite regularly does NOT happen. It is certainly not 'expected' simply by virtue of one of those meeting staying overnight at a hotel after a dinner rather than taking a two hour train late at night.

[Philhelm]

I can't watch the video at the moment, but what is the specific allegation here?

[Brian4Liberty]

What is hilarious about this is that some are sure she led him on at dinner and some are sure she didn't. We have no clue, except about what she said, and from that it sounds pretty bad for Cain. Being that he was married, that she didn't TURN DOWN already upgraded room and dinner that he had put in place, so he assumed acquiescence with a plan, is not going to be a winning tactic. At best, that line of defense would be saying when she came to him for help with a job, he tried to turn it into a date, and thought he had succeeded.

She states that at dinner he asked her "why are you here"? This means that after multiple planning calls, an unknown number of drinks and time in a bar, a drive to a restaurant, and who know how far into dinner, that the intentions were not clear.

[specsaregood]

She states that at dinner he asked her "why are you here"? This means that after multiple planning calls, an unknown number of drinks and time in a bar, a drive to a restaurant, and who know how far into dinner, that the intentions were not clear.

No, it means he wanted to act as if the intentions were not clear. What did she respond? Does she claim to have responded with, "I want you to feel me up and let me blow you in your car?"

[Brian4Liberty]

I can't watch the video at the moment, but what is the specific allegation here?

The specific allegation of wrong doing was Herman putting his hand on her leg, then moving his hand up her skirt, and then pushing her head down towards his crotch, at which point she said "what are you doing, you know I have a boyfriend". He stopped, took her back to the hotel.

[Brian4Liberty]

It also quite regularly does NOT happen. It is certainly not 'expected' simply by virtue of one of those meeting staying overnight at a hotel after a dinner rather than taking a two hour train late at night.

I didn't say that. It's the totality of the circumstances that resulted in mixed signals, not just the hotel room.

[TexMac]

She has sworn depositions from 2 people she told about the incident right after it happened.

[georgiaboy]

I can't watch the video at the moment, but what is the specific allegation here?

nvm, answered above

[eduardo89]

In person meetings are much more effective at getting what you want in the business world.

Her boyfriend supposedly suggested it.

This. You don't ask for a job over the phone.

[Brian4Liberty]

This. You don't ask for a job over the phone.

You have an interview in an office.

[dusman]

You have an interview in an office.

Depends on the job. I rarely meet in offices when bidding on projects, for example. I have learned that the informality of lunch/dinner is very effective at breaking the ice, so I make an effort to make it a preference.

Also, she wasn't interviewing.

[eduardo89]

You have an interview in an office.

It wasn't an interview though. It was asking someone for a favor.

[klamath]

Are the republicans going to elect a republican Clinton. I can't believe they are stupid enough to even go there.

[specsaregood]

You have an interview in an office.
How mundane of you, I've had my best interviews not in bars.

[Brown Sapper]

This just chalks up to Cain needing to brush up on his pimping skills. He made a move, she rejected, he stop end of story. Who hear hasn't struck out before? Anywho the real damage is going to come from the sheer amount of accusation amplified by the constant lying to cover it up. Grab some popcorn, its going to be a good show.

[Brian4Liberty]

Are the republicans going to elect a republican Clinton. I can't believe they are stupid enough to even go there.

How about a Newt instead? ;)

[kylejack]

I didn't say that. It's the totality of the circumstances that resulted in mixed signals, not just the hotel room.
All of which were created by Herman Cain. Herman Cain bought (or acquired) the upgrade for her, took her out to dinner, and then expected sex, but men aren't entitled to sex just because they bought a woman dinner. He sexually assaulted her.

[Brian4Liberty]

OK guys, let's look at this from a different perspective. Are you sending your spouse (or girlfriend) on a two hour train ride, to have drinks and dinner alone with another man, and reserving a hotel room to boot?

[Eric21ND]

http://thecommonconstitutionalist.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/herman-cain-sausage-scare.jpg?w=600&h=410

[kylejack]

You have an interview in an office.
Cain drove her to the offices and then sexually assaulted her in the parking lot, allegedly.

[Brian4Liberty]

All of which were created by Herman Cain. Herman Cain bought (or acquired) the upgrade for her, took her out to dinner, and then expected sex, but men aren't entitled to sex just because they bought a woman dinner. He sexually assaulted her.

Do the brainwashed know they are brainwashed?

[kylejack]

Nobody was with them, so this is all he said/she said, and assumptions. But what she is actually claiming sounds like a misunderstanding which resulted in him making a pass at her, she rejected, he quit. Is this something that should be tried in the media by Gloria Allred? Should government be involved in the smallest details of every single human interaction, misunderstanding and petty disagreement? I guess somethings never change. :rolleyes:
What in the world are you talking about government being involved? The woman is practicing her right to free speech. She has no intention of suing him or pressing charges.

[ctiger2]

She would have a name for this woman, and it wouldn't be complimentary.

I'll say it. Attention WHORE. lol!

[PatriotOne]

I didn't say that. It's the totality of the circumstances that resulted in mixed signals, not just the hotel room.

Oh good grief. What mixed signals? Where the hell do you work? It is quite common for people to meet in a lounge or bar to discuss business. I have done it many, many times and have never had someone put their hand on my crotch and push my head towards their genitals. Sure, maybe some flirting or questionable remarks to feel me out to see if I am game, but no one has ever assaulted me. Mixed signals? Putting your hand on one's genital's and pushing their head towards their genitals is hardly a way to check to see if they are game :rolleyes:

[specsaregood]

OK guys, let's look at this from a different perspective. Are you sending your spouse (or girlfriend) on a two hour train ride, to have drinks and dinner alone with another man, and reserving a hotel room to boot?

Are you suggesting that I have my spouse drive home a couple hours, after drinking?
Also, sure; I trust my spouse. Evidently this guy was trusting as well and from her side of the story he had every reason to. Are you one of those controlling types that thinks your woman is gonna hop into bed with any man that buys her a drink?

[Brian4Liberty]

What in the world are you talking about government being involved? The woman is practicing her right to free speech. She has no intention of suing him or pressing charges.

There are Federal laws related to this. That brings government into the picture.

[Philhelm]

All of which were created by Herman Cain. Herman Cain bought (or acquired) the upgrade for her, took her out to dinner, and then expected sex, but men aren't entitled to sex just because they bought a woman dinner. He sexually assaulted her.

Indeed, which is why a man should be careful for whom he buys dinner.

[kylejack]

There are Federal laws related to this. That brings government into the picture.
We're not talking about laws and this media story has nothing to do with laws. Nobody is trying to bring the government into it, especially not the woman. Did she ask for these laws? No. She is simply telling her story of what she believed to be inappropriate behavior because Cain and his people have been daring any woman to come forward.

They asked for the bull, so now they get the horns.

[Brian4Liberty]

Are you suggesting that I have my spouse drive home a couple hours, after drinking?
Also, sure; I trust my spouse. Evidently this guy was trusting as well and from her side of the story he had every reason to. Are you one of those controlling types that thinks your woman is gonna hop into bed with any man that buys her a drink?

She took the train. No driving required. Who said anything about trusting your woman? I wouldn't trust the man, and would not send my woman into a situation like that. Obviously they made a mistake trusting Herman Cain. It wouldn't have happened at the office (during business hours), or at a lunch.

[PaulConventionWV]

Why are so many people defending the Hermster?

[kylejack]

Indeed, which is why a man should be careful for whom he buys dinner.
I prefer to split with dates, or to use the asker pays rule.

[roversaurus]

Harder to flirt over the phone?

Oh, come on.

I'm willing to give Cain the benefit of doubt. I'll keep an open mind. Innocent until proven guilty and all that
....
But the benefit of the doubt GOES BOTH WAYS. Stop automatically assuming the woman is lying.

[Kords21]

Maybe the Cain campaign should roll out another ad with Mark Block, except this time he'll be rolling a joint while he's talking and then lights up, cue creepy Cain Smile.

[specsaregood]

//

[HOLLYWOOD]

I can't stand that man... Gloria Alred

Appears she had some plastic surgery done, since Halloween

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a361/mzcmdr/gloria_Allred.jpg

[kylejack]

Cain has a history of lying about the previous allegations and how they were settled. He hasn't told his side of the story about this incident.

This is not a case of he said/she said, it's a case of she said/he stonewalled. And even if he does tell his side, it will be suspect.

[Kords21]

Cain needs to do more than release a statement, he needs to take more charge of this than "We're not going to talk it about, have you heard about 999?" The more he avoids talking about it, the guiltier he looks in people's eyes. What he needs to do is find out when this happened and produce witness/documents putting him somewhere else at the time. Hard to really do since it happend 15 years ago, but surely as head of the NRA, there'd be some log books or something. I'm sure by the end of the week, he'll have about 4 different versions of his side.

[heavenlyboy34]

This is pretty lame for a political sex scandal. Americans need to study the Europeans so as to stop doing it wrong. ;)

[PatriotOne]

We can probably just stop wasting our time talking about Cain now. It's all over for him with the exception of a few last gasp's of breath. We don't need to put anymore effort into the flim flam man.

Though kicking that federal reserve dog while he is down is rather satisfying.

[heavenlyboy34]

http://thecommonconstitutionalist.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/herman-cain-sausage-scare.jpg?w=600&h=410
LMAO!!!! :D

[Brian4Liberty]

Why are so many people defending the Hermster?

Whether it is Herman Cain, Bill Clinton, Newt Gingrich, or Arnold Schwarzenegger, this obsession with sex and all it's details, combined with the extreme feminist witch hunt to chemically, or symbolically castrate all men is disgusting, and also a distraction from real issues.

I would rather talk about the candidate's positions on the economy, foreign policy, and the size and scope of government. It is much more relevant to the Presidency than this Maury Povich/Jerry Springer/Gloria Allred/TMZ gossip circus. This is exactly what is wrong with politics in America, and the media uses this to destroy selected candidates. Are we going to spend 3 months going through all of Newt Gingrich's sexual episodes with explicit details of Newt's every sexual encounter?

[eduardo89]

OK guys, let's look at this from a different perspective. Are you sending your spouse (or girlfriend) on a two hour train ride, to have drinks and dinner alone with another man, and reserving a hotel room to boot?

A married man who can get my girlfriend who I trust a job? Yes. I would.

[kylejack]

Whether it is Herman Cain, Bill Clinton, Newt Gingrich, or Arnold Schwarzenegger, this obsession with sex and all it's details, combined with the extreme feminist witch hunt to chemically or physical castrate all men is disgusting, and also a distraction from real issues.
Ahahahaha, that's absolutely absurd.

[Brian4Liberty]

Not trust the man to what? Not rape your woman?

Herman has not been accused of rape. Making a pass is much more likely than rape.

[PastaRocket848]

ok... i was skeptical... but now we have 4 separate women.... $90k in hush money... cain caught in a train of lies...

it's looking bad.

[specsaregood]

Herman has not been accused of rape. Making a pass is much more likely than rape.
So whats the big deal then? You are the one that said you "wouldn't trust the man". So you wouldn't trust the man to not make a pass at your woman?
Big whoopee. In which case it does come down to whether you trust your spouse.

[Philhelm]

Whether it is Herman Cain, Bill Clinton, Newt Gingrich, or Arnold Schwarzenegger, this obsession with sex and all it's details, combined with the extreme feminist witch hunt to chemically or physical castrate all men is disgusting, and also a distraction from real issues.

I would rather talk about the candidate's positions on the economy, foreign policy, and the size and scope of government. It is much more relevant to the Presidency than this Maury Povich/Jerry Springer/Gloria Allred/TMZ gossip circus. This is exactly what is wrong with politics in America, and the media uses this to destroy selected candidates. Are we going to spend 3 months going through all of Newt Gingrich's sexual episodes with explicit details of Newt's every sexual encounter?

I'm inclined to agree. The man made some advances, was an ass about it, but stopped when asked (at least from what I've gathered from this thread). So what? How is that sexual assault? Are we to turn any unwelcomed advances as a near-rape now? It's not like he knocked her teeth out and shoved a sausage pizza down her throat (Que: "Who wants sausage?" ^).

[Brian4Liberty]

Ahahahaha, that's absolutely absurd.

Thanks for pointing out an editing error. I had reworded it and got my metaphors crossed. "Physical" should have been "symbolically".

And yes, I am not a fan of Gloria Allred's brand of ambulance chasing extreme feminism.

[Philhelm]

ok... i was skeptical... but now we have 4 separate women.... $90k in hush money... cain caught in a train of lies...

it's looking bad.

Cain should sue them for breach of contract. :p

[ShaneEnochs]

She states that at dinner he asked her "why are you here"? This means that after multiple planning calls, an unknown number of drinks and time in a bar, a drive to a restaurant, and who know how far into dinner, that the intentions were not clear.

I wouldn't be so sure. I've used something similar to that as a pickup line in my day in a similar situation (minus the assault stuff).

[kylejack]

I'm inclined to agree. The man made some advances, was an ass about it, but stopped when asked (at least from what I've gathered from this thread). So what? How is that sexual assault? Are we to turn any unwelcomed advances as a near-rape now? It's not like he knocked her teeth out and shoved a sausage pizza down her throat (Que: "Who wants sausage?" ^).
Are you of the opinion that one can run their hand up a woman's leg uninvited? Shouldn't that be preceded by some kind of flirting or kissing?

[Eric21ND]

I don't understand why you guys aren't outside doing cartwheels. This is great news for Ron Paul. Another anti-Romney candidate is toast, probably for good. The prospects of this becoming Paul vs. Romney are becoming closer to reality.

[Brian4Liberty]

So whats the big deal then? You are the one that said you "wouldn't trust the man". So you wouldn't trust the man to not make a pass at your woman?
Big whoopee. In which case it does come down to whether you trust your spouse.

Well, you can feel free to put your wife into any situation you want. If she gets groped, big whoopee.

[specsaregood]

//

[ShaneEnochs]

She knows how to handle herself just fine. I mean, if that is your worry; you wouldn't be able to let your wife ride an elevetor, train, go to a bar, geez pretty much anywhere with lots of people.

A better analogy is letting your wife travel two hours to stay in a hotel so she can meet a man.

Oh wait.

[Brian4Liberty]

Are you of the opinion that one can run their hand up a woman's leg uninvited? Shouldn't that be preceded by some kind of flirting or kissing?

We weren't there. We don't know for sure what happened. There's his impression of events, her impression of events, and if we had a camera in the car, we would have a less biased version.

[kylejack]

We weren't there. We don't know for sure what happened. There's his impression of events, her impression of events, and if we had a camera in the car, we would have a less biased version.
I'm just talking about the allegations. The allegations, if true, show a bad man. He's issued a blanket denial and hasn't even acknowledging knowing her, so we don't really have his side yet.

[eduardo89]

We weren't there. We don't know for sure what happened. There's his impression of events, her impression of events, and if we had a camera in the car, we would have a less biased version.

The government should put cameras in every car, house and hotel room just to make sure this stuff is recorded.

[Philhelm]

Are you of the opinion that one can run their hand up a woman's leg uninvited? Shouldn't that be preceded by some kind of flirting or kissing?

I was at a club once and a young woman, as she was passing by, slid her hand along my crotch. Oh the horror! I'm scarred for life!

Seriously though, I'm just of the opinion that such actions aren't tantamount to rape. Personally, I usually keep my hands off of other people and their property unless invited.

[kylejack]

I was at a club once and a young woman, as she was passing by, slid her hand along my crotch. Oh the horror! I'm scarred for life!

Seriously though, I'm just of the opinion that such actions aren't tantamount to rape. Personally, I usually keep my hands off of other people and their property unless invited.
It's not rape, it's sexual assault. Related, but not exactly the same.

[Philhelm]

It's not rape, it's sexual assault. Related, but not exactly the same.

So...you're saying that I've been sexually assaulted by a woman?

[Brian4Liberty]

The government should put cameras in every car, house and hotel room just to make sure this stuff is recorded.

You joke, but just barely. We have already invited the Federal government to regulate, judge and punish the minutia of non-violent human personal interactions, so cameras for enforcement are just around the corner.

[eduardo89]

You joke, but just barely. We have already invited the Federal government to regulate, judge and punish the minutia of non-violent human personal interactions, so cameras for enforcement are just around the corner.

Well we already have mandated GPS trackers in our cell phones, warrantless tracking of GPS in our cars, cameras are just a few steps ahead.

[moderate libertarian]

He is done.

[eduardo89]

So...you're saying that I've been sexually assaulted by a woman?

A woman put her hand under your skirt?

[amy31416]

A woman put her hand under your skirt?

He's admitted worse things on the forum.

[speciallyblend]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aY6PFccu-k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aY6PFccu-k

[heavenlyboy34]

He's admitted worse things on the forum. lolz! ;)

[wgadget]

Herman Cain for Head TSA Groper 2012

[low preference guy]

is "genitiles" some sort of internal joke or a true misspelling?

[low preference guy]

He's admitted worse things on the forum.

philhelm has great stories

[roughridersten]

Guys, you are focusing on the wrong issue. Arguing whether or not this is assault is irrelevant because we have no evidence and this is he said/she said. Some are going to interpret this as her leading him on and then changing her mind, and some will interpret this as him assaulting her. You can argue all day long, but she is not bringing charges.

What is an issue is that Herman Cain's ethics are on display. Not only was he willing to cheat on his wife, he was willing to offer job opportunities in return for sex. He may or may not have assaulted her, but he was definitely unethical (assuming she is not making all this up). Do we want a president that would take sexual bribes for jobs? This is what is wrong with Washington: scratch my back and I'll scratch yours.

[Philhelm]

philhelm has great stories

God forbid if I should ever run for President.

[Brian4Liberty]

Herman Cain for Head TSA Groper 2012

Hit that on the head! Tens of thousands of Americans have undergone worse sexual assault at the hands of the TSA than this woman described today.

[Sola_Fide]

is "genitiles" some sort of internal joke or a true misspelling?

He didn't fondle the joos, he fondled the genitales!

[Brian4Liberty]

What is an issue is that Herman Cain's ethics are on display. Not only was he willing to cheat on his wife, he was willing to offer job opportunities in return for sex. He may or may not have assaulted her, but he was definitely unethical (assuming she is not making all this up). Do we want a president that would take sexual bribes for jobs? This is what is wrong with Washington: scratch my back and I'll scratch yours.

Well, this is a concern, and corruption in Washington is rampant. Whether or not an individual's sexual activity is an indicator of corruption in other areas is open to debate. If that premise is correct, and they do go together, than the widespread crony corruption in Washington would indicate that they are all also engaging in sexual misconduct of some kind. Who knows how much correlation there is?

Speaking of corruption, here's some related threads:

Jack Abramoff: ‘The whole system’ is corrupt:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?328450-Jack-Abramoff-%91The-whole-system%92-is-corrupt

Judges Are for Sale -- and Special Interests Are Buying:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?327133-Judges-Are-for-Sale-and-Special-Interests-Are-Buying

[Revolution9]

Yeah, I think assuming this is a groupie going for the gold is, frankly, bullshit. Most sane people aren't the least bit interested in paying the price they have to for 15 minutes of this kind of fame -- I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt over Pee-Wee Hermie.

And one thing we could do to handle this would be learn to spell genitals.

Heh.. I was looking for the proper flip analogy prior and now I have it. The guy thinks he is Lex Steele but he is Pee Wee Herman.

Rev9

[Revolution9]

You have an interview in an office.

If yer into cubicle monkey jobs. Last time I interviewed in an office was three years ago. The client tried to rip me for 7K USD. The time prior to that was when I interviewed for Turner Advertising in 1982. Every other business contact was done at a hotel, coffee shop, bar or restaurant. It has only been since 2002 where I could be sure they had email and web connections going.

Why do you want this woman to be a hosebag so badly? I can watch her at the conference and know she is a decent lady and not lying. She is actually sparing the American people the hardship his presidency would prove to be. Cain is a douche for going after a lady who he knew was attached even if she invited it. That is ungentlemanly in the extreme. Some of the boys around here will disagree because they don't care what strings or dishonor comes with their poontang.

Rev9

[Revolution9]

So...you're saying that I've been sexually assaulted by a woman?

The key is whether it was considered an aggression against your private person or not. IOW, if you liked it it wasn't assault. But if you did not like it and depending on the situation, yes, it may scar you for life. That is why society has a law against it. Sociopaths and psychopaths use this very intimate channel to seize their victims with no external bindings. The most public case in point was Cain's assault on this woman looking for work. Had she not backed him down she would have been his victim and he would have abused her for years so that she could have his frakkin' fancy job he was gonna offer her.

In the old days a man would have right crossed another man for this behavior. Now the boys jump in and defend the ungentlemanly conduct and trash the women of their society. It is weird like there is no middle ground. American boys either worship women or they are talked trash about. They can never have just plain assed old human reasons for doing something.

Rev9

[Philhelm]

The key is whether it was considered an aggression against your private person or not. IOW, if you liked it it wasn't assault. But if you did not like it and depending on the situation, yes, it may scar you for life. That is why society has a law against it. Sociopaths and psychopaths use this very intimate channel to seize their victims with no external bindings. The most public case in point was Cain's assault on this woman looking for work. Had she not backed him down she would have been his victim and he would have abused her for years so that she could have his frakkin' fancy job he was gonna offer her.

In the old days a man would have right crossed another man for this behavior. Now the boys jump in and defend the ungentlemanly conduct and trash the women of their society. It is weird like there is no middle ground. American boys either worship women or they are talked trash about. They can never have just plain assed old human reasons for doing something.

Rev9

So you're saying that at the time, as a young twenty-something male, when the young, attractive woman put her hand on my crotch, without my voluntary consent, I could have successfully had her charged with sexual assault? Also, was the woman a sociopath or psychopath?

[Cleaner44]

The Time for Cain Train Action is Now!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abzjnBXR-Bg

Herman Cain brings his action train to town!

[COpatriot]

Deep dish.

[kylejack]

So...you're saying that I've been sexually assaulted by a woman?
A sexual assault is non-consensual touching with intent of sexual arousal. If she did it with that intent and if you didn't want it, yes, you were assaulted.

[kylejack]

Well, this is a concern, and corruption in Washington is rampant. Whether or not an individual's sexual activity is an indicator of corruption in other areas is open to debate.
If he's in the habit of abusing his subordinates, he'll have plenty of subordinates to abuse as President. His personal consensual extra-marital affairs should be between him and his wife, but his assaults and harassment of subordinates is important, lest we hire a Molester-In-Chief.

[Revolution9]

So you're saying that at the time, as a young twenty-something male, when the young, attractive woman put her hand on my crotch, without my voluntary consent, I could have successfully had her charged with sexual assault? Also, was the woman a sociopath or psychopath?

Cute prevarication. I am not sure you would understand a man's answer to this if you have failed to properly digest what I have written already. But let me take a shot at elucidating what seems to be a difficult subject for you to grasp. Obviously you enjoyed the encounter and are bragging about it on an internets forum. Obviously the state of her mental being is beyond the ken of both you and I to make light of considering the brevity and time distanced nature of the encounter. Since you enjoyed the encounter enough to brag about it years later on a public forum the idea of charging her with any assault is a ridiculous idea. This gambit of yours is of course meant to slight the clear cut statement I made above, including turning my note about how sociopaths and psychopaths can use sex amongst their repertoire of tools they use to gain access to and then seize control of a victim into an emphatic broadbrushed statement that alludes that all sexual contact is only initiated by sociopaths or psychopaths.

Disingenuous position to come from to say the least.

Rev9

[WarNoMore]

The government should put cameras in every car, house and hotel room just to make sure this stuff is recorded.

Sounds like a job for Groundskeeper Willie


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjvnRM554lw

[moostraks]

Ugh...the way some of you guys are treating this is why women don't come forward. Interesting that Cain's wife is not in the fray as well. Cheaters usually keep the wife at a distance from their prey. I hope she sticks to not accepting money for anything as that will be the ultimate downfall of her credibility. As for wanting fame for this type of situation, no woman would sanely want this type of attention, esp. by someone who has devoted followers such as political candidates do.

As for staying overnight she was meeting the boyfriend's family as well from what I read. She didn't know about the room upgrade being by Cain until the dinner meeting. She was probably unsuspecting because she thought she knew him. She might have felt the radar go up but decided to have dinner as there may be another explanation. Once he accosted her, she would then realize it was a perk provided she go along with the casting couch routine.

As for those who think running your hand inside someones clothing and shoving their head towards their crotch is not assault, really??? I cannot believe that just because he dropped it once he realized she wasn't willing to trade sex for a job negates the previous physical contact. Just so some can be clear on what is sexual assault:
Sexual assault takes many forms including attacks such as rape or attempted rape, as well as any unwanted sexual contact or threats. Usually a sexual assault occurs when someone touches any part of another person's body in a sexual way, even through clothes, without that person's consent. Some types of sexual acts which fall under the category of sexual assault include forced sexual intercourse (rape), sodomy (oral or anal sexual acts), child molestation, incest, fondling and attempted rape. pertinent part to this situation bolded...

http://www.ncvc.org/ncvc/main.aspx?dbName=DocumentViewer&DocumentID=32369

[sparebulb]

I am blessed by being a male in the bottom 50% of attractiveness. That way, I know that when a chik makes an unsolicited grab for my happy spot, she's probably mentally unstable. It is not a perfect predictor of spotting mentally unstable women, however, because it doesn't explain the rest of the female population that didn't grab my wang, but are still crazy.

[Bruno]

For those of you who don't think it was sexual assault, imagine a cab driver doing that to your mom, after she questions the fare.

Some people truly amaze me in what actions of others they will defend.

[Brian4Liberty]

If yer into cubicle monkey jobs. Last time I interviewed in an office was three years ago. The client tried to rip me for 7K USD. The time prior to that was when I interviewed for Turner Advertising in 1982. Every other business contact was done at a hotel, coffee shop, bar or restaurant. It has only been since 2002 where I could be sure they had email and web connections going.

Why do you want this woman to be a hosebag so badly? I can watch her at the conference and know she is a decent lady and not lying.

Rev9

Yes, if you are a independent business person, out making sales on a constant basis, you meet with potential customers any way you can. She was looking to be a "cubical monkey", so the process is pretty standard. Phones calls and resumes, then in person interviews in an office.

I don't want the woman to be a "hosebag", but I am skeptical, and can not say with any level of certainty that she is not lying, bending the facts, omitting key information, or just giving us her personal impression, with all of the biases associated with that. I double down on the skepticism when she walks up holding hands with known scumbag Gloria Allred, and reading a prepared statement. If she just wanted to get her story out there, any media outlet would die to get an interview with her. Gloria Allred hurts her credibility.

[low preference guy]

I double down on the skepticism when she walks up holding hands with known scumbag Gloria Allred, and reading a prepared statement. If she just wanted to get her story out there, any media outlet would die to get an interview with her. Gloria Allred hurts her credibility.

What hurts her credibility more from my POV is that she was hugging (http://www.suntimes.com/8592168-417/sneed-witness-says-cain-accuser-hugged-him-during-tea-party-meeting-a-month-ago.html)Cain a month ago.

http://www.suntimes.com/csp/cms/sites/dt.common.streams.StreamServer.cls?STREAMOID=oF_hp wo_GrdwZZ$NCcbn0s$daE2N3K4ZzOUsqbU5sYuZ_jU7giMLfg3 _qgLozUaMWCsjLu883Ygn4B49Lvm9bPe2QeMKQdVeZmXF$9l$4 uCZ8QDXhaHEp3rvzXRJFdy0KqPHLoMevcTLo3h8xh70Y6N_U_C ryOsw6FTOdKL_jpQ-&CONTENTTYPE=image/jpeg

[Brian4Liberty]

In the old days a man would have right crossed another man for this behavior. Now the boys jump in and defend the ungentlemanly conduct and trash the women of their society. It is weird like there is no middle ground. American boys either worship women or they are talked trash about. They can never have just plain assed old human reasons for doing something.

Rev9

The old days? No where have I said that Cain didn't deserve a right cross from her significant other. That's what I was getting at earlier in this thread when talking about not encouraging your woman to put herself into a potentially compromising position. Come to think of it, the prepared statement spent a whole lot of time talking about her boyfriend, how he suggested the one on one dinner, and made the hotel reservation. Why would Gloria emphasize that angle so prominently?

My entire point is that America has become twisted and brainwashed with political correctness, and we are not accepting that we are plain old human beings. Things happen. People should not place themselves into potentially compromising positions. And giving the harasser a "right cross" is true human nature too.

On top of that, this is all about the media selectively smearing people. So many other politicians can be accused in this way, yet we are going to rejoice media manipulation and control of elections just because it's a Primary opponent of our favorite candidate?

[Brian4Liberty]

Ugh...the way some of you guys are treating this is why women don't come forward. Interesting that Cain's wife is not in the fray as well. Cheaters usually keep the wife at a distance from their prey. I hope she sticks to not accepting money for anything as that will be the ultimate downfall of her credibility. As for wanting fame for this type of situation, no woman would sanely want this type of attention, esp. by someone who has devoted followers such as political candidates do.

Innocent until proven guilty? The burden of proof is on the prosecution? No worries, a lawyer like Gloria Allred would be the expert on all that legal stuff, and she is never involved in scandals, money, or celebrity...


For those of you who don't think it was sexual assault, imagine a cab driver doing that to your mom, after she questions the fare.

Some people truly amaze me in what actions of others they will defend.

No one is defending assault. But Cain was not a stranger, and that woman is certainly not my mom.

[kylejack]

On top of that, this is all about the media selectively smearing people. So many other politicians can be accused in this way, yet we are going to rejoice media manipulation and control of elections just because it's a Primary opponent of our favorite candidate?
There is increased scrutiny because Cain is currently engaged in a job interview to run America, and America has questions for him before they hire him. Some other candidates don't have sex scandals in their past, and others (like Newt) have already taken their lumps.

[Brian4Liberty]

What hurts her credibility more from my POV is that she was hugging (http://www.suntimes.com/8592168-417/sneed-witness-says-cain-accuser-hugged-him-during-tea-party-meeting-a-month-ago.html)Cain a month ago.

http://www.suntimes.com/csp/cms/sites/dt.common.streams.StreamServer.cls?STREAMOID=oF_hp wo_GrdwZZ$NCcbn0s$daE2N3K4ZzOUsqbU5sYuZ_jU7giMLfg3 _qgLozUaMWCsjLu883Ygn4B49Lvm9bPe2QeMKQdVeZmXF$9l$4 uCZ8QDXhaHEp3rvzXRJFdy0KqPHLoMevcTLo3h8xh70Y6N_U_C ryOsw6FTOdKL_jpQ-&CONTENTTYPE=image/jpeg

Wow! Is this verified? Not sure if that is really her in the pic, the hair is different...

Edit: Had to read the caption on the photo in the news story. That is not the accuser in the picture, it is the woman who wrote the story, and says she witnessed the encounter.

[Brian4Liberty]

There is increased scrutiny because Cain is currently engaged in a job interview to run America, and America has questions for him before they hire him. Some other candidates don't have sex scandals in their past, and others (like Newt) have already taken their lumps.

Now I see. He wants a job! That Dan Savage request (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/21/dan-savage-herman-cain-oral-sex-gay_n_1024315.html) makes a lot more sense now. :eek:

[moostraks]

Innocent until proven guilty? The burden of proof is on the prosecution? No worries, a lawyer like Gloria Allred would be the expert on all that legal stuff, and she is never involved in scandals, money, or celebrity...


The same innocent until proven guilty you have given her right? I was curious about her choice of attorney, but might be because of the types of notoriety she has in regards to sexism issues. I am also wondering who approached whom regarding the attorney choice. Quick search didn't turn up anything this morning.

The manner in which some expect the world to work for a woman to be free from criticism on being accosted is disturbing.

[kylejack]

I suspect Allred takes these types of clients because they're easy to represent (no trial, just a press conference or two, make sure they don't say anything slanderous) and they keep her name in the headlines. Win-win for client and lawyer.

[kylejack]

Why why why does he never provide any specificity? With regard to Bialek, Cain just says, "There's not an ounce of truth to these allegations." Which particular allegations? Did she call you and ask for a job? Did you upgrade a suite for her? Did you take her to dinner? At what point is there not an ounce of truth? Did she make the entire thing up, start to finish?

[Brian4Liberty]

The same innocent until proven guilty you have given her right? I was curious about her choice of attorney, but might be because of the types of notoriety she has in regards to sexism issues. I am also wondering who approached whom regarding the attorney choice. Quick search didn't turn up anything this morning.

The manner in which some expect the world to work for a woman to be free from criticism on being accosted is disturbing.

Well, she's the one making allegations and making this public, so the burden of proof is on her. I wouldn't take anything she or Cain says at face value. Who are you going to believe? What kind of system would you have if two people have a dispute, but one of those people is above criticism or questioning?

They are "trying" this case in the court of public opinion, which is hopelessly corrupted by political correctness and cultural Marxism. This woman and Allred know that they can inflict their desired damage without the burden of the objective rules that are supposed to exist in a fair legal system.

[Brian4Liberty]

Why why why does he never provide any specificity? With regard to Bialek, Cain just says, "There's not an ounce of truth to these allegations." Which particular allegations? Did she call you and ask for a job? Did you upgrade a suite for her? Did you take her to dinner? At what point is there not an ounce of truth? Did she make the entire thing up, start to finish?

We'll see when he gives his press conference on this allegation.

Maybe Gloria Allred can prove she is unbiased and write a statement for Herman too.

[kylejack]

I have to say, though, that Cain and his people are getting exactly what they asked for. They begged in the media for a non-anonymous woman to come forward, knowing those two were under NDA. Now they're getting what they asked for.

[Philhelm]

Cute prevarication. I am not sure you would understand a man's answer to this if you have failed to properly digest what I have written already. But let me take a shot at elucidating what seems to be a difficult subject for you to grasp. Obviously you enjoyed the encounter and are bragging about it on an internets forum. Obviously the state of her mental being is beyond the ken of both you and I to make light of considering the brevity and time distanced nature of the encounter. Since you enjoyed the encounter enough to brag about it years later on a public forum the idea of charging her with any assault is a ridiculous idea. This gambit of yours is of course meant to slight the clear cut statement I made above, including turning my note about how sociopaths and psychopaths can use sex amongst their repertoire of tools they use to gain access to and then seize control of a victim into an emphatic broadbrushed statement that alludes that all sexual contact is only initiated by sociopaths or psychopaths.

Disingenuous position to come from to say the least.

Rev9

Actually, it's only after a decade that I've finally been able to muster the courage to come out and tell the world that I was sexually assaulted in a Pittsburgh club. :D

In all seriousness, my point is that I would hardly label the action as traumatizing. Also, if Cain stopped when asked, then it was clear that he didn't intend to force himself on her, beyond an inappropriate snatch. I'm not saying that he's not an asshole for doing it, and I've never done that to a woman in my life, but it's hard for me to see it as such an earth-shattering, criminal event that leaves the victim traumatized and is tantamount to rape. What is more concerning is that he'd use his power in order to potentially exchange a job for sex. I'm also a bit skeptical as to the woman's behavior before the incident had occurred. Drinks? I know it happens in "professional" settings, but I'd never drink in front of my employer.

I "brag" about my incident to highlight the fact that I simply did not care that I was sexually assaulted (minus the requisite traumatization). Also, if I had accused a woman of sexually assaulting me, don't pretend that I wouldn't be laughed out of court, not to mention the man club, regardless of my feelings of the situation (which are apparently the only important part...other than being of the proper gender). Sexual assault is only sexual assault when it's a woman being touched by an ugly man. Some law we've got there.

He snatched her toosh and stopped when asked. A jerk move, but in the grand scheme of things, big deal. If it hurts Cain and helps Paul, great! Hell, we're getting more coverage on this than Obama assassinating U.S. citizens, including minors. WTF?

[Brian4Liberty]

Sexual assault is only sexual assault when it's a woman being touched by an ugly man. Some law we've got there.


Too appropriate not to post:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsZlLDGs604

[moostraks]

Well, she's the one making allegations and making this public, so the burden of proof is on her. I wouldn't take anything she or Cain says at face value. Who are you going to believe? What kind of system would you have if two people have a dispute, but one of those people is above criticism or questioning?

They are "trying" this case in the court of public opinion, which is hopelessly corrupted by political correctness and cultural Marxism. This woman and Allred know that they can inflict their desired damage without the burden of the objective rules that are supposed to exist in a fair legal system.


He is the one who went to the public claiming he was virtuous. I stand to believe the one who has the most to lose and least to gain. You also appear to have little experience with the current legal system of fairness.

[specsaregood]

I was curious about her choice of attorney, but might be because of the types of notoriety she has in regards to sexism issues. I am also wondering who approached whom regarding the attorney choice. Quick search didn't turn up anything this morning.


Given the situation, Alred is the attorney I'd want on my side as well.
Imagine you are the accuser and you want:
1. To get your message out on as many friendly media outlets as possible.
2. Want to have an experienced attorney that is gonna be ready to fight the inevitible smears, whether it be libel or slander.
3. Knows how the conservative media attacks and who is most receptive on the left side.

All personal politics aside, I'd probably choose the same attorney.

[Brian4Liberty]

He is the one who went to the public claiming he was virtuous. I stand to believe the one who has the most to lose and least to gain. You also appear to have little experience with the current legal system of fairness.

Well, I did say "supposed" to exist. What we have right now is not perfect at all, but at least in a real court there are some rules.

I don't believe either of them are virtuous.

[moostraks]

Well, I did say "supposed" to exist. What we have right now is not perfect at all, but at least in a real court there are some rules.

I don't believe either of them are virtuous.

So what will she gain from this? What does he gain? Who has several allegations against them? Does her background seem to be that of one who would do something such as this? Again, what will she gain?

As for courts having rules...right...he who has the most money wins. That is about the short and fat of it.

Going to the park to enjoy one of the last nice days in NE Ohio for the season...:)

[moostraks]

Given the situation, Alred is the attorney I'd want on my side as well.
Imagine you are the accuser and you want:
1. To get your message out on as many friendly media outlets as possible.
2. Want to have an experienced attorney that is gonna be ready to fight the inevitible smears, whether it be libel or slander.
3. Knows how the conservative media attacks and who is most receptive on the left side.

All personal politics aside, I'd probably choose the same attorney.

I would definitely consider her as well. She is polarizing though and I am surprised with all things considered she became the choice. I would love to know why and how she was chosen in this instance.

[Soca Taliban]

Too appropriate not to post:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsZlLDGs604
LOL, funny, but so true

[Cleaner44]

The Time for Cain Train Action is Now!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abzjnBXR-Bg

Herman Cain brings his action train to town!

Ok, tonight I am remixing this with Barry White "I'm Gonna Love You Just A Little More Baby"

[Brian4Liberty]

So what will she gain from this? What does he gain? Who has several allegations against them? Does her background seem to be that of one who would do something such as this? Again, what will she gain?

As for courts having rules...right...he who has the most money wins. That is about the short and fat of it.

Going to the park to enjoy one of the last nice days in NE Ohio for the season...:)

Enjoy the sun!

What does she have to gain? I take it you haven't read the multiple stories about her? She gets fifteen minutes of fame. People will give anything just to be on TV. She has a history of bankruptcies and lawsuits. She has a Communications Degree and has worked at two different radio stations and co-hosted a cooking show. No doubt she would like to get a job in the media or write a book.

Here's an article:


Meanwhile, a friend of Ms Bialek, from Chicago, told the New York Post: 'She has a very infectious personality. It’s easy to see how she won [Cain] over. But the reality of her situation is -- she’s a complete gold digger. It’s all about the money.'

Adding that she was from a middle-income family but lives in a posh house while running from bill collectors, the source said: 'Most of her jobs ended in termination. It’s always the employer’s fault, not hers.

'This is a lady who lives off the system. She is hellbent on finding a way of never having to work and living the lifestyle she wants to live, a very affluent lifestyle.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2058983/Murky-past-Herman-Cain-accuser-Sharon-Bialek-starts-emerge.html#ixzz1d9VQ0cuR

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2058983/Murky-past-Herman-Cain-accuser-Sharon-Bialek-starts-emerge.html

[kylejack]

With friends like that, who needs enemies??

[moostraks]

Enjoy the sun!

What does she have to gain? I take it you haven't read the multiple stories about her? She gets fifteen minutes of fame. People will give anything just to be on TV. She has a history of bankruptcies and lawsuits. She has a Communications Degree and has worked at two different radio stations and co-hosted a cooking show. No doubt she would like to get a job in the media or write a book.

Here's an article:

Enjoyed the sun...thanks! Okay, because of my past history I know I am more empathetic to the women + I sorely dislike Cain. So I am trying to look at this and see your p.o.v. but I still don't get it. If she were as desperate for money as the media seems to have discovered to be the motive and an attention whore she would have gone for the exclusive interview. She was going to get subsequent interviews anyways, the initial impact would have been more attention worthy, and she would have had the payday of the exclusive interview to bank on. Once you come forward you are branded. This does not look grand on a resume. As for writing a book, it isn't like there was a long affair being accused here but an incident to which the details have been disclosed. How interesting can the book be? Also she had two witnesses that filed affidavits, what are their motivations that they should stick themselves out there?

The scenario fits in many respects which is why most women accosted don't come forward. The people that abuse their authority, by making unwanted advances, target victims. It is a symbiotic relationship. Look into their past and you are often going to find they have broken families and/or failed relationships, and these often run with financial problems. The abusers are very arrogant and usually condescending towards others. They will often keep their spouses at an arms length from their 'business' life so they are not accessible to be apprised of what nefarious goings on occur. So looking for someone who is sterling is going to be difficult because you need to understand that it isn't the norm for the situation. Abusers don't generally target the successful because they know they will get caught. The person that will keep quiet is afraid of being judged for causing it because of a chequered past. If you find someone to have a decent relationship with by the grace of God, you might not want to disclose the past in fear that they will shun you or think you are the reason for what transpired. Tifwiw...I think that Cain fits the profile from my experience and the background of the gal who has put things out there fits esp. since he targeted her when she was vulnerable.

[Krugerrand]

Enjoyed the sun...thanks! Okay, because of my past history I know I am more empathetic to the women + I sorely dislike Cain. So I am trying to look at this and see your p.o.v. but I still don't get it. If she were as desperate for money as the media seems to have discovered to be the motive and an attention whore she would have gone for the exclusive interview. She was going to get subsequent interviews anyways, the initial impact would have been more attention worthy, and she would have had the payday of the exclusive interview to bank on. Once you come forward you are branded. This does not look grand on a resume. As for writing a book, it isn't like there was a long affair being accused here but an incident to which the details have been disclosed. How interesting can the book be? Also she had two witnesses that filed affidavits, what are their motivations that they should stick themselves out there?

The scenario fits in many respects which is why most women accosted don't come forward. The people that abuse their authority, by making unwanted advances, target victims. It is a symbiotic relationship. Look into their past and you are often going to find they have broken families and/or failed relationships, and these often run with financial problems. The abusers are very arrogant and usually condescending towards others. They will often keep their spouses at an arms length from their 'business' life so they are not accessible to be apprised of what nefarious goings on occur. So looking for someone who is sterling is going to be difficult because you need to understand that it isn't the norm for the situation. Abusers don't generally target the successful because they know they will get caught. The person that will keep quiet is afraid of being judged for causing it because of a chequered past. If you find someone to have a decent relationship with by the grace of God, you might not want to disclose the past in fear that they will shun you or think you are the reason for what transpired. Tifwiw...I think that Cain fits the profile from my experience and the background of the gal who has put things out there fits esp. since he targeted her when she was vulnerable.

Cain was not in a position of authority to her at this point.

[moostraks]

Cain was not in a position of authority to her at this point.

In his head (if this is true) he would have seen her as needing a job and he was who she went to for help. That gave him the impression he had power over her which explains him feeling her out to see how desperate she was. When she pulled the boyfriend card he dropped it because she wasn't vulnerable enough.


Bialek says they went to dinner at an Italian restaurant, where Cain asked, “Why are you here?”

She told him, “I need a job.” Cain allegedly told her he would “look into it,” and after dinner, offered to take her on a tour of the NRA’s offices. But just before they arrived, he stopped the car short. “Instead of going in,” Bialek said, “he reached over and put his hand on my leg, under my skirt, and reached for my genitals. He also grabbed my head and brought it towards his crotch.”

She told him to stop. He said, “You want a job, right?”

[Krugerrand]

In his head (if this is true) he would have seen her as needing a job and he was who she went to for help. That gave him the impression he had power over her which explains him feeling her out to see how desperate she was. When she pulled the boyfriend card he dropped it because she wasn't vulnerable enough.

My only problem is that what you've quoted is a carefully crafted, legalistic, one-sided view. Do we know if there had been conversation during the dinner in which Cain would have suggested he might be able to help pending certain 'incentives?' Do we know if there had been any other demonstrably flirtations activity by either party over dinner? Do we know if the hand on the leg described above was his first flirtatious/assaulting behavior of the evening?

I find it entirely possible that he had been dropping hints all evening about what his intentions were. He may have had his arm around her waist on the way from dinner to the car. He could have been in a situation where he completely thought she knew what he wanted in return for employment assistance. At the same time, she could have easily not been picking up the cues and had been oblivious to what he was doing.

There was a time when missed relationship cues meant a firm slap on the face (or something harder) and that was the end of it. I'd hate to see 'missed cues' be the cause for 'sexual assault' labels being thrown around willy-nilly.

[specialK]

For those of you who don't think it was sexual assault, imagine a cab driver doing that to your mom, after she questions the fare.

Some people truly amaze me in what actions of others they will defend.
Totally. Some responses here are shockingly bizarre.

[Cleaner44]

Ok, tonight I am remixing this with Barry White "I'm Gonna Love You Just A Little More Baby"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0FbotdU6II

[moostraks]

My only problem is that what you've quoted is a carefully crafted, legalistic, one-sided view. Do we know if there had been conversation during the dinner in which Cain would have suggested he might be able to help pending certain 'incentives?' Do we know if there had been any other demonstrably flirtations activity by either party over dinner? Do we know if the hand on the leg described above was his first flirtatious/assaulting behavior of the evening?

I find it entirely possible that he had been dropping hints all evening about what his intentions were. He may have had his arm around her waist on the way from dinner to the car. He could have been in a situation where he completely thought she knew what he wanted in return for employment assistance. At the same time, she could have easily not been picking up the cues and had been oblivious to what he was doing.

There was a time when missed relationship cues meant a firm slap on the face (or something harder) and that was the end of it. I'd hate to see 'missed cues' be the cause for 'sexual assault' labels being thrown around willy-nilly.


I want to be clear...I don't think Cain is a rapist, but I think it is highly probable he is a creep who probably cheats on his wife and uses his position to manipulate women. Now regarding when this happened, it was seen as abusive if what she says occurred happened. It would not have been popular to go forward because it was known what would happen. The person with credibility is not the victim but the person who has the power. It just was that way.(and still is for the most part) There were almost never eyewitnesses. However the type of guy who does this will fish from the company pier when he is able so it is usually low level company gossip that the guy is aggressive. I was in hostile work environments before during this time period. You would try to keep the peace, tolerated a certain level of nonsense, and once you had been physically harassed you generally tried to see you weren't in a position to be victimized again. Some places the aggressor was known and it was water cooler chat and sometimes they flew under the radar.

From what I have read and granted it is only a few articles here and there these last few days, one witness who worked with him previously acknowledged this behavior but it is dismissed because he supports someone else. So are we to think someone who works with him will now will come forward? I doubt it. Not too many people do the moral thing nowadays especially when the costs to one's career and family are so high regarding scrutiny by the media to find ulterior motives.

As for missing cues, the problem is from the story as it is told he was basically asking her to prostitute herself. So even if we skip the pesky problem of whether it was assault because he and she were on separate pages, do we really need another guy who believes business is conducted like this? Traveling further down the rabbit hole wonder if this was leaked by tptb intentionally to derail Cain as they love them a good juicy gossip of a sex scandal (Ala Mark Sanford). So wonder who he might have dised? Has he met any interesting power players right around this disclosure?

[speciallyblend]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeQsZOQqO6I<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeQsZOQqO6I">
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeQsZOQqO6I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeQsZOQqO6I)

[Krugerrand]

I want to be clear...I don't think Cain is a rapist, but I think it is highly probable he is a creep who probably cheats on his wife and uses his position to manipulate women. Now regarding when this happened, it was seen as abusive if what she says occurred happened. It would not have been popular to go forward because it was known what would happen. The person with credibility is not the victim but the person who has the power. It just was that way.(and still is for the most part) There were almost never eyewitnesses. However the type of guy who does this will fish from the company pier when he is able so it is usually low level company gossip that the guy is aggressive. I was in hostile work environments before during this time period. You would try to keep the peace, tolerated a certain level of nonsense, and once you had been physically harassed you generally tried to see you weren't in a position to be victimized again. Some places the aggressor was known and it was water cooler chat and sometimes they flew under the radar.

From what I have read and granted it is only a few articles here and there these last few days, one witness who worked with him previously acknowledged this behavior but it is dismissed because he supports someone else. So are we to think someone who works with him will now will come forward? I doubt it. Not too many people do the moral thing nowadays especially when the costs to one's career and family are so high regarding scrutiny by the media to find ulterior motives.

As for missing cues, the problem is from the story as it is told he was basically asking her to prostitute herself. So even if we skip the pesky problem of whether it was assault because he and she were on separate pages, do we really need another guy who believes business is conducted like this? Traveling further down the rabbit hole wonder if this was leaked by tptb intentionally to derail Cain as they love them a good juicy gossip of a sex scandal (Ala Mark Sanford). So wonder who he might have dised? Has he met any interesting power players right around this disclosure?

For my money you can strike the "highly probably" in front of creep.

We surely don't need a GOP Clinton.

I can see no redeeming quality which would cause a person to vote for him.

[Brian4Liberty]

Enjoyed the sun...thanks! Okay, because of my past history I know I am more empathetic to the women + I sorely dislike Cain. So I am trying to look at this and see your p.o.v. but I still don't get it. If she were as desperate for money as the media seems to have discovered to be the motive and an attention whore she would have gone for the exclusive interview. She was going to get subsequent interviews anyways, the initial impact would have been more attention worthy, and she would have had the payday of the exclusive interview to bank on.

Yes, I am by no means a Cain fan either. Out of the entire GOP field, he may be my least favorite. I certainly am empathetic to cases of rape, assault and battery. I am also empathetic to those who are being "bullied" in any form (I would call many of these cases a subset of bullying). I am not sure how much government should be involved in regulating "bullying". My less-government initial response is that it should be handled at the lowest level possible, i.e. between the people involved and/or management or owners of the company, depending on the size and type of business.

As for the payday for the accuser, taking immediate pay would instantly destroy her credibility. Her reward would have to take some other form.

[kylejack]

My only problem is that what you've quoted is a carefully crafted, legalistic, one-sided view. Do we know if there had been conversation during the dinner in which Cain would have suggested he might be able to help pending certain 'incentives?' Do we know if there had been any other demonstrably flirtations activity by either party over dinner? Do we know if the hand on the leg described above was his first flirtatious/assaulting behavior of the evening?

I find it entirely possible that he had been dropping hints all evening about what his intentions were. He may have had his arm around her waist on the way from dinner to the car. He could have been in a situation where he completely thought she knew what he wanted in return for employment assistance. At the same time, she could have easily not been picking up the cues and had been oblivious to what he was doing.

There was a time when missed relationship cues meant a firm slap on the face (or something harder) and that was the end of it. I'd hate to see 'missed cues' be the cause for 'sexual assault' labels being thrown around willy-nilly.
He says he's never heard of her and doesn't remember her. If he wanted to tell his side, he's missing his chance because he's claiming to not remember even meeting her.

[low preference guy]

He says he's never heard of her and doesn't remember her. If he wanted to tell his side, he's missing his chance because he's claiming to not remember even meeting her.

Isn't that his side? That he never met her? :confused:

[kylejack]

Isn't that his side? That he never met her? :confused:
I mean if he wanted to tell his side that the poster was implying might exist.

[Brian4Liberty]

I want to be clear...I don't think Cain is a rapist, but I think it is highly probable he is a creep who probably cheats on his wife and uses his position to manipulate women.
...
As for missing cues, the problem is from the story as it is told he was basically asking her to prostitute herself.

Agree, he is a creep.

Yes, he did ask her to prostitute herself, according to the accuser. She said "no", and he stopped. Bosses can ask you to do anything, but you don't have to do it. They can ask you to wash their car, or steal, or do something dangerous, or any numbers of things that you don't want to do.

This is turning into a circus, and they really want to turn it into a male vs. female battle. They want to get all four accusers up on stage at the same time like some kind of lynch mob. A great big emotional battle of political correctness and gender beating. Harassment, bullying and general nasty behavior can be between any kinds of people. No need for it to be a gender war.

For full disclosure, I have experienced harassment like this in the workplace too. When I was in College, working at a job, a female manager put her hands on me and essentially made a pass. I didn't go for it. She had me fired the next day. She had previously successfully slept with at least one other guy, and successfully had the guy who took my place. I didn't need or want the Federal Government to help me, and was fine with just getting a new job (although years after the fact, it seemed like it would have been a good idea to let upper management know what she was up to).

[Brian4Liberty]

I mean if he wanted to tell his side that the poster was implying might exist.

Lol! No way he was going to tell his side. He (and his advisers) took the only move they had. It's a game of chess, and it was the only move available.

[kylejack]

Agree, he is a creep.

Yes, he did ask her to prostitute herself, according to the accuser. She said "no", and he stopped. Bosses can ask you to do anything, but you don't have to do it. They can ask you to wash their car, or steal, or do something dangerous, or any numbers of things that you don't want to do.

This is turning into a circus, and they really want to turn it into a male vs. female battle. They want to get all four accusers up on stage at the same time like some kind of lynch mob. A great big emotional battle of political correctness and gender beating. Harassment, bullying and general nasty behavior can be between any kinds of people. No need for it to be a gender war.

For full disclosure, I have experienced harassment like this in the workplace too. When I was in College, working at a job, a female manager put her hands on me and essentially made a pass. I didn't go for it. She had me fired the next day. She had previously successfully slept with at least one other guy, and successfully had the guy who took my place. I didn't need or want the Federal Government to help me, and was fine with just getting a new job (although years after the fact, it seemed like it would have been a good idea to let upper management know what she was up to).
I don't see how that's relevant. Neither did she.

[moostraks]

Isn't that his side? That he never met her? :confused:

How's that square with the gal who supposedly saw them hugging at a recent tea party event? So what is her motivation according to Cain? It seemed like she was trying to take the wind out of Bialek's accusations. The part of how they were hugging bothers me, but then again I have had people I know who have done me wrong that would approach me in that manner and it might seem I am more enthused than I am when I am striving to be non-confrontational. Still the embrace issue doesn't sit well with me. As one looking at the sum total of people coming against him along with the details of that which transpired I am inclined to believe however he is guilty of being a creep. Of course I come to this biased and have never cared for Cain.

[kylejack]

Cain's story is that when she came to him at the Tea Party thing was that he didn't remember her, but was cordial since she remembered him.

[moostraks]

Agree, he is a creep.

Yes, he did ask her to prostitute herself, according to the accuser. She said "no", and he stopped. Bosses can ask you to do anything, but you don't have to do it. They can ask you to wash their car, or steal, or do something dangerous, or any numbers of things that you don't want to do.

This is turning into a circus, and they really want to turn it into a male vs. female battle. They want to get all four accusers up on stage at the same time like some kind of lynch mob. A great big emotional battle of political correctness and gender beating. Harassment, bullying and general nasty behavior can be between any kinds of people. No need for it to be a gender war.

For full disclosure, I have experienced harassment like this in the workplace too. When I was in College, working at a job, a female manager put her hands on me and essentially made a pass. I didn't go for it. She had me fired the next day. She had previously successfully slept with at least one other guy, and successfully had the guy who took my place. I didn't need or want the Federal Government to help me, and was fine with just getting a new job (although years after the fact, it seemed like it would have been a good idea to let upper management know what she was up to).

Sorry about your own experience. I try to be gender neutral on the matter as it really doesn't matter the gender, it is the personality that has the flaw. Many top producers are sociopaths, and they are successful because of this character trait. It just so happens that some of them have sexual issues as well and they are the ones that tend to this type of unseemly behavior.

I also agree with your assessment of causing a gender war. The more division the better for those behind the scene.;)

[Brian4Liberty]

Totally. Some responses here are shockingly bizarre.

How so? Going against current political correctness?


I don't see how that's relevant. Neither did she.

Totally relevant. Federal laws have been created for this. Lawsuits are based upon that law. The hypocritical politically correct culture we have now is the outgrowth of those laws.

For example, yesterday morning there was a 4 person panel on CNN discussing this. 2 men, 2 woman. They started out with each of them doing their required intro about how this is all so very serious, that there should never be any jokes about it, yadda, yadda, yadda. They all nod their heads in agreement like a bunch of brainwashed zombies. Where is the hypocrisy? At the end of the segment, one of the women makes a joke about Herman Cain needing to go masturbate, and then a guy says something about the Kama Sutra, and they all laugh hysterically.

[Cowlesy]

He should just take a stupid polygraph and get this put to bed.

haha, whoops. They must read the board.

http://www.cbsatlanta.com/story/16002149/investigator-herman-cain-innocent-of-sexual-advances

[ShaneEnochs]

haha, whoops. They must read the board.

http://www.cbsatlanta.com/story/16002149/investigator-herman-cain-innocent-of-sexual-advances

He's an experienced public speaker. She's not. Could be as simple as that.