Republican Presidential Debate to Exclude Ron Paul

[Taco John]

From a Republican Party of Iowa E-Mail...


Republican Party of Iowa to host presidential debate in DES MOINES

Debate to be nationally televised by FOX NEWS CHANNEL

The Republican Party of Iowa announced today that it will hold its presidential debate at Hy-Vee Hall in downtown Des Moines. The event, to be held the evening of December 4, 2007, will be the first debate in Iowa to be televised by FOX News Channel this election season, as well as the first debate sponsored by the Republican Party of Iowa.

Republican Party of Iowa Chairman Ray Hoffmann said, "With the caucuses less than a month away, our December 4 debate will be very telling to Iowans and the nation. We are thrilled to be having this event in central Iowa, and right in downtown Des Moines which will be the epicenter on caucus night."



The debate will be limited to those candidates who have satisfied the following criteria:


1. Announced a formal campaign for President: and

2. Filed the necessary paperwork with the Federal Election Commission; and

3. Met all U.S. constitutional requirements; and

4. Garnered at least 5% of the national electorate as determined by an average of the most recent national telephone polls of registered voters conducted by non-partisan public opinion polling organizations leading up to the registration deadline as determined by Fox News Channel and the Republican Party of Iowa or garnered an average of at least 5% in the most recent polls of Iowa voters conducted by the American Research Group and the Des Moines Register.

[Taco John]

Duncan Hunter- OUT
Tom Tancredo- OUT
Ron Paul- OUT

[qednick]

Contact info please?

[bc2208]

We have a month, we'll be there.

[matthylland]

wait, so he wont be included if he does not have 5% of polls by then? or he is excluded b/c he doesn't have 5% of polls now?

[kevman657]

Did they leave a website or something?

[tekkierich]

Oh, my oh my. They will raise the iri of the masses if they try to not have Ron Paul on stage with these rules.

[UtahApocalypse]

I thought RP was confirmed for this debate?? Is that a old note? can we get confirmation???

[Gimme Some Truth]

Disgraceful. This cannot happen

[Taco John]

Fox News National Poll:

Ron Paul polled at 1%

http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/102507_politics_release_web.pdf


Iowa Polls:

Ron Paul polled at 4% in the last Des Moines Register poll
Ron Paul polled at 1% in the last ARG Poll

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071007/NEWS09/71005048/-1/caucus

http://americanresearchgroup.com/pres08/iarep8-711.html


Apparently there's another round of polling that will decide it. I don't know when it is though...

[Johnnybags]

speech next door. And you guys do not want to boycott fox advertisers? Yeah, right. Fox Sucks.

[Taco John]

The Republican Party of Iowa

http://www.iowagop.net/

[ClayTrainor]

wtf... this is an absolute Disgrace!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[matthylland]

Oh, my oh my. They will raise the iri of the masses if they try to not have Ron Paul on stage with these rules.

i would personally drive up to Iowa if this did not happen.

:mad:

[BW4Paul]

We have to think strategically.

I seriously doubt that calling the RNC or Fox News will be helpful to us. There's little doubt in my mind but that they have dont this intentionally to exclude Dr. Paul.

Instead, I'd suggest that we expend all the energy that would have been directed at RNC and Fox News on developing and implementing a strategy to reach out to Iowans...

[ladyliberty]

Should I dare to even suggest a massive Woodstock-esque Nation Wide Road Rally to Des Moines on December 4th? What a media event THAT would be! Meetup groups Unite!!!

[BLS]

Oh, this ain't gonna FUCKING happen on my watch.

This is it.

[matthylland]

Should I dare to even suggest a massive Woodstock-esque Nation Wide Road Rally to Des Moines on December 4th? What a media event THAT would be! Meetup groups Unite!!!


Oh, this ain't gonna FUCKING happen on my watch.

This is it.

*signs up*

[F3d]

....

[ClayTrainor]

i would personally drive up to Iowa if this did not happen.

:mad:

Im with you man... im fucking canadian, and i'd drive my ass up there to protest.

The revolution needs to happen... FUUUUUUUUUUCk this makes me sooo mad.:mad:

[ronpaulfan]

FOX NEWS CAN EAT SHIT AND DIE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8m6N53nidw

[shadowhooch]

If this actually did happen, everyone should attend as "other candidate's supporters" and then collectively BOO the candidates off the stage right in the midway point of the debate. That would get headlines.

[michaelwise]

Oh, my oh my. They will raise the iri of the masses if they try to not have Ron Paul on stage with these rules.They have no idea the wrath to be set upon them.

[Anti-Donkey]

Ron may be at 5% in the polls by then. A lot of work must be done though.

Fox doesn't know what they'd be getting themselves into in he's not in the debates.

[rp4prez]

time for that bot net to take action! ahhahaha. ;)

[F3d]

....

[misconstrued]

If this actually did happen, everyone should attend as "other candidate's supporters" and then collectively BOO the candidates off the stage right in the midway point of the debate. That would get headlines.

We should do that, but also all chant in unison, "RON PAUL RON PAUL RON PAUL!"

[Original_Intent]

This won't stand.

[literatim]

:mad:

[Mortikhi]

If they are wanting to see how far they can push before people exercise their 2nd amendment, I think they have found the edge

[Johnnybags]

Ron may be at 5% in the polls by then. A lot of work must be done though.

Fox doesn't know what they'd be getting themselves into in he's not in the debates.

a few hundred chamber of commerce Iowa guys. Its time for a national boycott.

[ladyliberty]

wear suits and shirts over our Ron Paul Gear and then after we are in wait for a signal and transform into a 100% Ron Paul Audience!!!!

[TyTodd]

If this is true, God help Fox news and the GOP of Iowa. There are going to be some spambots with pitch-forks...

Seriously, they (national GOP, media, analysts) think we don't exist. Pretty funny. The revolution is too strong and now well financed to be shut out at this point. What a mess.

[kevman657]

WHERE IS THE CONFIRMED SOURCE? Right now we are going off of someone's email??? Where does it say this on the website?

[belian78]

step 1. get confirmation from the campaign

step 2. organize a rally outside the Hyvee Hall

step 3. do what we do best and spread this s*** far and wide.

if this truly goes down, f*** all the "be polite and dont spam other forums" i say post the notice of the rally on every online place possible. in the face of a fundraising day like yesterday they can even begin to think Dr Paul has no place on that stage is unbelievable!!!!!

if they trully want to exclude Dr Paul from this debate i say we make our stand once and for all outside that hall! pack the parking lot with so many supporters, they will have to turn the mikes up on the hacks inside to be able to hear them!!!

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

[Razmear]

CNN/Opinion Research Corporation Poll
11/3/2007
w/o Newt Gingrich
Margin of Error = 4.4% [?]
Rudy Giuliani 28%
Fred Thompson 19%
John McCain 16%
Mitt Romney 11%
Mike Huckabee 10%
Ron Paul 5%
Duncan Hunter 4%
Tom Tancredo 3%
Unsure 5%

[matthylland]

CNN/Opinion Research Corporation Poll
11/3/2007
w/o Newt Gingrich
Margin of Error = 4.4% [?]
Rudy Giuliani 28%
Fred Thompson 19%
John McCain 16%
Mitt Romney 11%
Mike Huckabee 10%
Ron Paul 5%
Duncan Hunter 4%
Tom Tancredo 3%
Unsure 5%

yes, but they will be using a "Fox News poll"

[davidkachel]

Guys, don't get off track. It doesn't matter if RP gets 5% in time or not. This is a matter of free speech and liberty. ALL the candidates should be allowed to participate whether the Iowa Republicans think so or not. It is the smaller voices that matter the most, always. Everyone already knows what the mainstream puppets have to say. We should support the inclusion of Tancredo, Hunter, AND Dr. Paul.

[robertwerden]

Before this gets out of hand, lets confirm this with HQ.
If true then we need to get on the phones and call people in Iowa and get the polls up.

[Brinck Slattery]

haha how about they use the Fox News cell phone poll. You know the one I mean...

[Craig_R]

We should do that, but also all chant in unison, "RON PAUL RON PAUL RON PAUL!"

its stuff like that , that the msm uses to paint us as crazy

[literatim]

CNN/Opinion Research Corporation Poll
11/3/2007
w/o Newt Gingrich
Margin of Error = 4.4% [?]
Rudy Giuliani 28%
Fred Thompson 19%
John McCain 16%
Mitt Romney 11%
Mike Huckabee 10%
Ron Paul 5%
Duncan Hunter 4%
Tom Tancredo 3%
Unsure 5%

It seems Unsure could be getting an invite. How's he coming along in Iowa?

[kevman657]

Guys, don't get off track. It doesn't matter if RP gets 5% in time or not. This is a matter of free speech and liberty. ALL the candidates should be allowed to participate whether the Iowa Republicans think so or not. It is the smaller voices that matter the most, always. Everyone already knows what the mainstream puppets have to say.


Yeah but, we need to confirm this before we attack Fox. What if this is totally false and they just think we're crazy?

[ladyliberty]

if we make big announcements they will have the riot police and swat teams to haul us away upon arrival - better to do this incognito - underground effort works best.

just sort of "show up" on December 4 (or come earlier when they aren't expecting us) and not be an angry hostile mob, but peaceful concerned citizens...well organized, peaceful demonstrators, with big signs and big mouths!

[Falseflagop]

Are you kidding me. RP would be the top 2!! If these guys were so popular where are their people with signs promoting them??


Please wake up people!! This is the same shit with the IOWA TAX debate remember that!

[parke]

Time for civil disobedience. I say RP supporters upset the debate. Then organize the meetups to protest outside of fox newstations around the country.

[Mortikhi]

Time for civil disobedience. I say RP supporters upset the debate. Then organize the meetups to protest outside of fox newstations around the country.
If its true, Im there with you

[Johnnybags]

and cheer thunderously at a 5-1 outnumbered margin at the same time. FOX has gone mad, I think you can all see now FOX is a government news channel. He will never see 5 percent on national polls and the ARG one is a simple chamber of commerce poll. Let the campaign make the first move.

[fletcher]

Don't these polls usually have a margin of error of about 5? What a joke.

[RadioDJforPaul]

I think Fox News will let him in it because they would rather let him in the debate and ignore him, than face the wrath and the bad pub they would get if they dont let him in.

[kickzman]

Come on guys I don't think they could exclude Dr Paul with the money we have raised... and remember these donations are small so literally there are thousands upon thousands of donators.. They wouldn't dare do it, the blowback would be MASSIVE.

[axiomata]

This should be motivation for us to get his poll numbers up.

[belian78]

Come on guys I don't think they could exclude Dr Paul with the money we have raised... and remember these donations are small so literally there are thousands upon thousands of donators.. They wouldn't dare do it, the blowback would be MASSIVE.

i wouldnt put it past them, and yes the blowback would be massive. I'm looking forward to it.

[ClayTrainor]

If they do this, the world will wake up to the corruption... they dont realize how big the support actually is.

FUCK THE MSM... those bastards hate freedom.

[davidhperry]

Before this gets out of hand, lets confirm this with HQ.
If true then we need to get on the phones and call people in Iowa and get the polls up.

Yes, this is coming from one source - hearsay basically. I'm all for opening up both barrels on these folks if Ron Paul isn't invited be we must get the facts before we can be effective. Let's see what HQ has to say. If need be, we'll unload on these people.

[Original_Intent]

This could be the biggest thing to happen to the campaign if this is true.

We would get far more attention from an exclusions (and the ensuing surge of angry Paul supporters) than Ron is likely to get in the debates.

All those people that signed up for ThisNovember5th.com - when that crowd of 21,000+ new enthusiastic supporters as well as the rest of us feel that we are being sidelined..... I see serious repurcussions. Peaceful, but not able to be ignored.

Frankly, I will be amazed if Ron Paul is not invited. They have got to realize what will happen if he is excluded.

[Johnnybags]

I think Fox News will let him in it because they would rather let him in the debate and ignore him, than face the wrath and the bad pub they would get if they dont let him in.

has the gloves off, how can an obscure Texas congressman think he can be President? Mitt will be forced to throw 20 million more in, Rudy too and the others are there for flank protection. No way Ron gets in but strangely enough, everytime they sh*t on him he gets more popular. I see bus charters from every corner of the US hammering this event if they pull this.

[sylvania]

This is not surprising and it isn't just the media.

1. Iowa Tax debate (Excluded RP)
2. Iowa Straw Poll (Remeber the Vote in Sunshine issues)

Iowa GOP does not like RP. He thwarted their moves during the Iowa Tax debate and then caused them massive amounts of grief with his supporters flooding their office with phone calls during the Iowa Straw Poll..

But until I hear from an official that he has been excluded, I'll just hope that isn't the case.

[Syren123]

Not these turds again.

Okay so they play their usual game. We urge HQ to spend some of our bake sale money to run bitchen ads the whole week before the debate.

Then we'll see who polls what.

[dircha]

We will car pool in 5,000 people.

We will infiltrate their audience and disrupt their prime time programming with Ron Paul chants and t-shirts.

It will be the biggest embarrassment Fox News has ever seen.

Find out how we get in that audience.

[Copperhed51]

If this happens, I'll drive/fly to Des Moines for sure. That'll be a nice little trip.

[garrettwombat]

if paul didn't make it to the debate i would buy a ticket from someone... prob giuliani so he doesnt have any support what so ever, all our main opponents, buy tickets from them.
we will just boo everyone and everything not related to Ron paul...

i will not stand for this... the revolution is going to happen whether anyone likes it or not.

i have a bad feeling that there is going to be a point when the peaceful actions of us Ron paul supporters are not so peaceful anymore... i can just see another revolution happening if paul doesnt win.

[wfd40]

Honestly, don't they realize by now what happens when they attempt to do things like this???

Seriously, lolz.

We will break them.

[bc2208]

That's a good idea - think the Rudy McRomney shills would turn down $100 a ticket?

[Paulite5112007]

Come on guys I don't think they could exclude Dr Paul with the money we have raised... and remember these donations are small so literally there are thousands upon thousands of donators.. They wouldn't dare do it, the blowback would be MASSIVE.

They have shown they dont care about blowback - foriegn or domestic. I had assumed all candidates have already been sent invitations - and that Dr. Paul was confirmed. They can change the criteria, sure, but it would almost have to be based on fundraising numbers. Basing the invite list on polling of at least 5% when the margin of error is 5% would be ridiculous. I dont see any confirmation of the email contents - anyone get a hold of the debate sponsor to confirm?

[ladyliberty]

or even worse - buy up all the tickets and give them an EMPTY auditorium to debate in front of!!!

[misconstrued]

its stuff like that , that the msm uses to paint us as crazy

aren't we though? ;)

[fj45lvr]

How are they gonna have this debate anyhow????


there will be so many people surrounding the building that no one will get in the afternoon of the debate!!!!

I say if we have a buffer about 100 people deep all the way around the facility that should do the trick (just bring along your gas mask and motor cycle helmets with face shield)

This IS OUR SHOT HEARD ROUND THE WORLD....RIGHT THERE.

[Blowback]

If this is true, then despite the Iowa Republican Party's best intentions... this is the best thing that could possibly happen to us.

Say my name !

Oh god... I have to go to Iowa AGAIN... argh...

[Hurricane Bruiser]

Let's get confirmation on this, see how the polls are moving, and then act accordingly. I think excluding anyone is a mistake and that includes Tancredo and Hunter as well as Paul. Poll results are such stupid indicators of real support.

[GeorgThomas]

Ron may be at 5% in the polls by then. A lot of work must be done though.

Fox doesn't know what they'd be getting themselves into in he's not in the debates.

Right: it is going to be a win for Ron Paul, which ever way. However, I wish, the movement would finally come up with a clear, concise and easily communicable piece of debunking the poll-nonsense that the MSM are constantly trying to use as a way to make Ron Paul look like a hopeless long shot.

The constitutional illiteracy/indifference to the Constitution betrayed by the MSM is shocking, alarming but also revealing - instead of taking up the first serious effort to revive the foundations of the USA (that should make headlines in the media), you get distorting stuff about the only Champion of the Constitution (as if RP had violent plans (Guy Fowkes) or remotely endorsed illegitimate force, while he stands for precisely the opposite in taking the Constitution seriously).

[cmc]

wear suits and shirts over our Ron Paul Gear and then after we are in wait for a signal and transform into a 100% Ron Paul Audience!!!!
HAHAHAA

And the camera pans out to show the entire Republican audience taking off their clothes.

This is Iowa folks, not California. :D

[werdd]

We need contact info, massive email bombs always work.

[remaxjon]

I wonder if they will account for margin of error with the polls. If so it won't be an issue but if not we will have a big problem. The good news is in the latest cnn poll we hit the 5% mark

[garrettwombat]

or even worse - buy up all the tickets and give them an EMPTY auditorium to debate in front of!!!

this is my favorite idea so far

[Bossobass]

This makes it plain to see the truth.

During my trips to Iowa, I have been very surprised at the apathy I found in Iowans, generally speaking. They don't give a hoot about politics and they have no clue who is running for the GOP nomination. Hell, they have to be paid, fed, entertained and diven to the straw poll (when there are countries where people have to dodge bullets to vote).

I found that odd because I was brainwashed into thinking that the Iowa Caucus was such an important political event because Iowans are middle-America with middle American political views and fervor.

Instead, it's a rigged dog and pony show, like everything else in this bought and paid for monopoly haven of a country.

We have the numbers already to win their stupid Caucus, but I emphatically believe they will fix the results with Diebold machines.

I would love to see a credible exit poll strategy in place. Short of that, kiss Iowa goodbye, IMO.

I'm personally sick to death of these lazy, fat, pussified, owned jackasses hijacking my country and so adversely affecting my life. I've made the trip to Iowa twice so far, I'll gladly make it again and again. If we can get 10,000 supporters there, count me IN.

Bosso

[freedominnumbers]

What pops into my head is the massive march into grand central.

If he doesn't get in then we should all crash the party by marching right into the hall waving signs and chanting. I'd like to see them get a few K RP supporters packed in like sardines out to continue the debate.

[mconder]

We have to think strategically.

I think 30,000 Ron Paul donors showing up in front of the debate doors would send a message. I would be willing to travel for such an event.

[JMann]

I would want Paul to have the opportunity to participate but if he wasn't invited this could provide more coverage than if he did if handled properly.

[improv241]

I would want Paul to have the opportunity to participate but if he wasn't invited this could provide more coverage than if he did if handled properly.

great point.... I think we would/should embrace it at that point and boycott outside in peaceful manners.

[Patriot]

I see no mention of this on the RPOI website. Where are you getting this info?

http://www.iowagop.net/index.asp

The only debate I see is Nov, 6
http://www.iowagop.net/eventscalender.asp?c=318

[fj45lvr]

What pops into my head is the massive march into grand central.

If he doesn't get in then we should all crash the party by marching right into the hall waving signs and chanting. I'd like to see them get a few K RP supporters packed in like sardines out to continue the debate.

This is much more than a march and chant.

if we actually want to WIN we have to literally surround this town with people

PULL THE PLUG.

this is the WHOLE ENCHILADA.....Paul must be in the debates RIGHT before the primaries (as this is when people actually pay attention).

Don't ever fail to realize that we are in a WAR folks....this is not just a casual thing at all.

Liberty or Slavery.....you make the call.

[Taco John]

I see no mention of this on the RPOI website. Where are you getting this info?

http://www.iowagop.net/index.asp

The only debate I see is Nov, 6
http://www.iowagop.net/eventscalender.asp?c=318



My friend in Iowa forwarded me the email. He's a Rudy supporter, and was gloating the Ron Paul isn't going to be in the next debate.

[Mommy2Princesses]

http://www.campaignsandelections.com/ia/releases/?id=3971

I found this -does someone want to call her and see whats up?

[me3]

Sounds like hearsay at this point. Until we have confirmation, everyone put away your pitchforks.

TJ, you gotta be careful what you report as fact and what is hearsay. There are a lot of people who could overreact here and damage the campaign by being overzealous.

[fj45lvr]

I see no mention of this on the RPOI website. Where are you getting this info?

http://www.iowagop.net/index.asp

The only debate I see is Nov, 6
http://www.iowagop.net/eventscalender.asp?c=318

here you go

http://www.iowagop.net/shownews.asp?artid=25

[Taco John]

Sounds like hearsay at this point. Until we have confirmation, everyone put away your pitchforks.

TJ, you gotta be careful what you report as fact and what is hearsay. There are a lot of people who could overreact here and damage the campaign by being overzealous.



I have no doubt that it's a fact. But I'll let you guys catch up to me.

Go ahead and give them a call. I've posted the contact info.

[RockEnds]

Calm down. THe Des Moines Register says Dr. Paul will be there.

http://blogs.dmregister.com/?cat=53


The Iowa Republican Party and Fox News Channel announced today plans for a Dec. 4 debate of the GOP presidential campaigns in Des Moines.

The Tuesday evening event is scheduled for Hy-Vee Hall in Des Moines and comes as the race to the Jan. 3 caucuses enters its final month.

It was unclear who would attend, although only those candidates who had support of at least 5 percent of those surveyed in recent national polls or The Des Moines Register’s Iowa Poll are invited, Iowa GOP officials said.

That would include former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani, Arizona Sen. John McCain, U.S. Rep. Ron Paul of Texas, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney and former Tennessee Sen. Fred Thompson. It could leave out U.S. Reps. Duncan Hunter of California and Tom Tancredo of Colorado.

[ladyliberty]

You mean we aren't gonna have an event like this one....

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5370437243192821520


awwwwww! :(

[belian78]

My friend in Iowa forwarded me the email. He's a Rudy supporter, and was gloating the Ron Paul isn't going to be in the next debate.

i'm thinking you've finally shown your true colors troll. calling on people to massively call the Iowa GOP without even confirming your suspicous email first? I'm calling BS on this. if not, i'll eat crow, but i dont think i am.

[njandrewg]

guys why the worry? We'll be at 5% by then...the only people who should worry is Hunter and Tancredo

[Mortikhi]

It has been confirmed. 5% needed or no Ron Paul
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=32880

[LibertyEagle]

here you go

http://www.iowagop.net/shownews.asp?artid=25

This article says NOTHING about excluding candidates.

[Taco John]

Calm down. THe Des Moines Register says Dr. Paul will be there.

http://blogs.dmregister.com/?cat=53



They're playing dirty tricks... They want us to be comfortable... I already posted the numbers that they're basing this on.... Here they are again:

Fox News National Poll:

Ron Paul polled at 1%
http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/102507_politics_release_web.pdf


Iowa Polls:

Ron Paul polled at 4% in the last Des Moines Register poll
Ron Paul polled at 1% in the last ARG Poll

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071007/NEWS09/71005048/-1/caucus

http://americanresearchgroup.com/pres08/iarep8-711.html

[RockEnds]

Taco John,

I know. I saw the polls, but the paper thinks he's coming, so hopefully....

[Madison]

I like how the rule is 5%, but they can arbitrarily pick whatever poll they want to look at... :mad:

[Taco John]

Taco John,

I know. I saw the polls, but the paper thinks he's coming, so hopefully....



It's dirty tricks... They're purposefully being submersive about this.

[belian78]

i'm thinking you've finally shown your true colors troll. calling on people to massively call the Iowa GOP without even confirming your suspicous email first? I'm calling BS on this. if not, i'll eat crow, but i dont think i am.


Shut up you idiot...

ah yes, you help your cause so much with that retort. like i said, if i'm wrong i'll apologize however you have shown no proof to this point. all your doing is asking us to get up in arms for no reason, and further the perception that we are 'crazy'.

[mavtek]

F-Fox News and this debate, less than 2 million people watch these stupid things anyway! Lets just get up enough money to run national ads during the debate, especially in Iowa :)

Have Ron Paul come on and say I wasn't included because Fox's polls don't seem to rate me high enough. The funny thing is the American people must rate me pretty highly they're the ones that paid for this commercial!

[Lord Xar]

well, considering the MSM conduct the polls and have ALWAYS been biased to Bush voters - they will exclude Ron Paul because he is clearly becoming a threat...

but we won't let that happen, will we.

[F3d]

....

[Taco John]

Mods please fix the thread title... This is confirmed.

[me3]

Mods please fix the thread title... This is confirmed.
By whom? I have yet to see a confirmation from anyone, except an article that says Paul is invited.

[entropy]

WOOOHOOO, let them try to silence us. We will give them a real lesson on blowback. They are now between a rock and a hard place......pick your poison GOP, ignore us and feel the wrath or let RP in and watch your party(used to be my party) be torn apart with logic and the lessons of history.

[Chester Copperpot]

If this actually did happen, everyone should attend as "other candidate's supporters" and then collectively BOO the candidates off the stage right in the midway point of the debate. That would get headlines.

I LIKE THAT IDEA!! BOO EVERYBODY!!


THE BOO BOMB!

[RockEnds]

I just called the Iowa GOP, and the lady didn't know which candidates were in or out. The guy that is supposed to have the answers is in a meeting, and I have to leave for the day. I won't be at the phone again until after they've closed. Maybe there are some other Iowa Republicans that can help get some answers?

[Shink]

Just called the campaign about this matter. The guy who answered seemed confused as to what the influx of calls are about, and I mentioned the apparent 5% poll exclusion for the Faux News debate. He said they weren't sure about the specifics but acknowledged the exclusionary tactics. I asked if they'd at least hold an alternate event if they exclude Ron. He was confident they would.

There is scheduling confusion afoot as well--he mentioned calls asking if Ron'd be at some debate *today* in which case the answer is no. He asked me what date I referred to and I took someone's post saying the 6th at face value. Now I see the 4th. Let's straighten this out.

Someone in the campaign is doing their homework right now and will get the clear version to Ron. Wait it out. If shit hits the fan, I'll post the Iowa GOP's #.

[Cali4RonPaul]

I just called them (515) 282-8105 Iowa Repulicans.

I told them the news is out, the Dr. Paul supporters now know whats going on, and I also explained to Carolyn rep. of the Iowa Republicans that it would be a mistake not to include him.

[Oliver]

I just called them (515) 282-8105 Iowa Repulicans.

I told them the news is out, the Dr. Paul supporters now know whats going on, and I also explained to Carolyn rep. of the Iowa Republicans that it would be a mistake not to include him.

Did they confirm that Ron is excluded? :confused:

[Cali4RonPaul]

Did they confirm that Ron is excluded? :confused:

She Explained, "that we will see what happens at the end of November", translation YES Dr. Paul can be excluded according to their polls.

[Johnnybags]

She Explained, "that we will see what happens at the end of November", translation YES Dr. Paul can be excluded according to their polls.

need blowback, in the meantime Paul can run some ads from that newfound goldmine in Iowa, which he seems to be neglecting a bit.

[MsDoodahs]

A press release that details the rules as set by Hoffman (in charge of Iowa GOP) and Faux News has been sent out, but I haven't located it yet.

Anyone here found it?

[Korey Kaczynski]

This makes it plain to see the truth.

During my trips to Iowa, I have been very surprised at the apathy I found in Iowans, generally speaking. They don't give a hoot about politics and they have no clue who is running for the GOP nomination. Hell, they have to be paid, fed, entertained and diven to the straw poll (when there are countries where people have to dodge bullets to vote).

I found that odd because I was brainwashed into thinking that the Iowa Caucus was such an important political event because Iowans are middle-America with middle American political views and fervor.

Instead, it's a rigged dog and pony show, like everything else in this bought and paid for monopoly haven of a country.

We have the numbers already to win their stupid Caucus, but I emphatically believe they will fix the results with Diebold machines.

I would love to see a credible exit poll strategy in place. Short of that, kiss Iowa goodbye, IMO.

I'm personally sick to death of these lazy, fat, pussified, owned jackasses hijacking my country and so adversely affecting my life. I've made the trip to Iowa twice so far, I'll gladly make it again and again. If we can get 10,000 supporters there, count me IN.

Bosso

I live in Nebraska and the people here in the Midwest are complete idiots. Seriously, there is no shortage of idiocy.

[Korey Kaczynski]

My friend in Iowa forwarded me the email. He's a Rudy supporter, and was gloating the Ron Paul isn't going to be in the next debate.

And you're friends with parasites? Why?

[me3]

She Explained, "that we will see what happens at the end of November", translation YES Dr. Paul can be excluded according to their polls.
But she did not confirm the 5% or that Dr. Paul is excluded right?

Nothing personal, but I don't want a translation. I want the facts. Before someone here does something stupid like organize some act of mass civil disobedience over nothing.

The downside of a grassroots this active, is that our energy can be used against us by feeding us bad information which will spread quickly.

We have to be calm, and cool like Dr. Paul. If he's excluded, he's excluded and we'll take the necessary steps then. If he's not excluded, get your butts back to work campaigning.

[Oliver]

She Explained, "that we will see what happens at the end of November", translation YES Dr. Paul can be excluded according to their polls.


"Can be" ... I will get mad about it once it's official...
All the fuss about nothing but rumors and pessimism...

[Cali4RonPaul]

But she did not confirm the 5% or that Dr. Paul is excluded right?

Nothing personal, but I don't want a translation. I want the facts. Before someone here does something stupid like organize some act of mass civil disobedience over nothing.

The downside of a grassroots this active, is that our energy can be used against us by feeding us bad information which will spread quickly.

We have to be calm, and cool like Dr. Paul. If he's excluded, he's excluded and we'll take the necessary steps then. If he's not excluded, get your butts back to work campaigning.

I was very cordial when speaking to the Iowa rep. Again I am confirming that there is the possibility that Dr. Paul can be excluded citing Fox news polls at the end of November. We need 5% or more.

The only way we can settle this is if we hear direct from Dr. Paul's HQ that he was invited.

[MsDoodahs]

But she did not confirm the 5% or that Dr. Paul is excluded right?

Nothing personal, but I don't want a translation. I want the facts. Before someone here does something stupid like organize some act of mass civil disobedience over nothing.

The downside of a grassroots this active, is that our energy can be used against us by feeding us bad information which will spread quickly.

We have to be calm, and cool like Dr. Paul. If he's excluded, he's excluded and we'll take the necessary steps then. If he's not excluded, get your butts back to work campaigning.

She confirmed it to me. She said the rules were decided by Hoffman (head of Iowa GOP) and Faux News.

She read the press release, I was not fast enough to take it all down, sorry. She said which polls, I did hear national telephone polls (did not catch which ones), also she said something about ARG and Des Moines Register polling.

But yes, the 5% level is in the press release that was read to me.

I have searched the Iowa GOP website, but there is not a copy of this press release there that I can find.

[constituent]

i think it would be a good thing if he stayed excluded and did an appearance on a high profile tv show that evening... blitzed the debate w/ commercials... on down the line.

[Cali4RonPaul]

i think it would be a good thing if he stayed excluded and did an appearance on a high profile tv show that evening... blitzed the debate w/ commercials... on down the line.

Its still too early, from what I understand Dr. Paul is not excluded YET. We need to bring up our Poll numbers.

[freelance]

Gosh, I hate to ask this question, but just HOW important is a good showing in Iowa if we could put all of that effort into New Hampshire?

[me3]

The campaign could set up a fund raising drive for advertising money, and run ads throughout the debate. Boy would that ever be effective.

[flahavin]

Sadly, even in Ron Paul was in the debate(which he probably will be), it wouldn't really matter the ways things have gone so far with Fox News moderated debates. So even if Ron Paul is included in the "debate," The real concerns should be :

1) Will he get equal airtime as the other candidates?
2) Is this going to be another Hillary Clinton love fest?
3) At this point, will all the questions be focused around bashing the front running candidate in the polls? If we do our jobs, then everyone should hopefully be afraid of Ron Paul, not Ritt Guliromney.

Thanks to today's media coverage, Ron Paul's name means more! He was on the front page of msnbc.com earlier today (I have a screen shot on my site if you missed it). The key is to make sure this media hype continues. I know you guys are doing your job, My mom called me this morning at 5:30 (woke me up) because Joe Scarborough spent a good segment talking about Ron Paul's following and fund raising :D. Money talks!

This money is still coming in too. Today so far we raised $224k, which is above the daily average, and it's only a little past half-time!

-Sean
--------
www.flahavin.com (http://www.flahavin.com)

[adpierce]

This is a win-win situation.

Situation 1: Ron Paul is excluded from the debate. An explosion of ground troops arrive on site in Des Moines. We get Major national news on a level never before seen from a grassroots movement in the history of this country.

Situation 2: Ron Paul gets his message out to people watching the debates all over the country.


Personally I think it's quite possible Situation 1 would be better for the movement than situation 2. Although those scum bags don't seem to realize they'd probably do better not asking ron paul too many questions in a debate like they've been doing than force his exclusion. They're idiots, let them dig their own graves.

[bolidew]

If Iowa-GOP want to decide who are eligible, ask them to use this year's Iowa-STRAW-POLL or organize a new Iowa-STRAW-POLL before the debate!

[tmg19103]

I just spoke to a woman at the Iowa GOP (515-282-8105) and she said it is out their hands, FOX is running the show! Ron Paul can still get in if he polls 5%. I even told her how RP just raised $4.3M in one day yesterday - more than any GOP candidate, and she said that's fine but he has to poll 5% and it's Fox rules.

My take - Iowa GOP does not want RP and is using Fox as their excuse.

Also, if you call them, as an FYI they will be able to tell which state you are calling from. We need Iowa supporters to call and tell them how they are leaving the GOP and becoming Independents due to this and will never give money to the Iowa GOP again.

Don't bother with Fox - they won't budge as they try and rig this election. We need to let the Iowa GOP know they will suffer a severe loss of party members and donations if RP is not allowed into this debate.

While we need a decent showing in Iowa, what is more important is that A LOT of people across the country will be watching this nationally televised debate right before the primaries.

Only other option I see is to get to 5% in Iowa FAST. The only way I see doing that is to start running ads now. Question is, is it worth the campaign money?

This REALLY PISSES ME OFF!

[Taco John]

Gosh, I hate to ask this question, but just HOW important is a good showing in Iowa if we could put all of that effort into New Hampshire?



Iowa is key to the campaign's strategy... Our strategy is focused around New Hampshire, Iowa, Michigan, South Carolina, and Nevada...

[MsDoodahs]

I also called, and the woman said something about ARG and Des Moines Register polls.

She read the press release to me on the phone. The lady who is in charge of the press release was not in but I left a message and asked that she call me to provide info on where the press release was to be found online.

I haven't checked the Faux News site, I'll go poke around over there...

[tmg19103]

Sadly, even in Ron Paul was in the debate(which he probably will be), it wouldn't really matter the ways things have gone so far with Fox News moderated debates. So even if Ron Paul is included in the "debate," The real concerns should be :

1) Will he get equal airtime as the other candidates?
2) Is this going to be another Hillary Clinton love fest?
3) At this point, will all the questions be focused around bashing the front running candidate in the polls? If we do our jobs, then everyone should hopefully be afraid of Ron Paul, not Ritt Guliromney.

Thanks to today's media coverage, Ron Paul's name means more! He was on the front page of msnbc.com earlier today (I have a screen shot on my site if you missed it). The key is to make sure this media hype continues. I know you guys are doing your job, My mom called me this morning at 5:30 (woke me up) because Joe Scarborough spent a good segment talking about Ron Paul's following and fund raising :D. Money talks!

This money is still coming in too. Today so far we raised $224k, which is above the daily average, and it's only a little past half-time!

-Sean
--------
www.flahavin.com (http://www.flahavin.com)

Even after the last Fox Debate where RP was booed by the rigged Fox audience his campign website traffic went way up. People look him up when they just hear he is the only GOP candidate against the war in a debate. Saying that alone in 30 seconds is worth thousands of new supporters. This is exposure that can't be missed unless somehow we get tens of thousands to swamp Des Moines to match that exposure, which will be very tough.

[Taco John]

These are the key polls:

Fox News National Poll:

Ron Paul polled at 1%

http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/102507_politics_release_web.pdf


Iowa Polls:

Ron Paul polled at 4% in the last Des Moines Register poll
Ron Paul polled at 1% in the last ARG Poll

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071007/NEWS09/71005048/-1/caucus

http://americanresearchgroup.com/pres08/iarep8-711.html


Apparently there's another round of polling that will decide it. I don't know when it is though...

[Seanmc30]

This really is infuriating, I think on a domestic level Fox News is the most dangerous organization in the country because of the distorted role it plays in public opinion. Thats not to say that the others are much better, but Fox is far and away the most manipulative, dishonest, and damaging.

For God's sake, we are the people here....We swing the votes, we donate the money, we pay the advertisers, and we make the decisions. There has got to be some way we can get around Fox News, there must be some way to bypass them all together.

I think eventually, we need to stop thinking about simply boycotting Fox and start thinking about exposing this dishonesty on a NATIONAL level.... In a world so full of distortion and dishonesty, there is simply no room for this kind of media abuse.


The world needs to know that Fox News is just a glorified 24 hour Nancy Grace with cool graphics!!! NOT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY!

[Oliver]

This is a win-win situation.

Situation 1: Ron Paul is excluded from the debate. An explosion of ground troops arrive on site in Des Moines. We get Major national news on a level never before seen from a grassroots movement in the history of this country.

Exactly. A major protest at all Fox offices certainly would get
a lot of attention in case of Ron Paul being excluded from the
Iowa Debates.

So no matter what the outcome will be - there's nothing to lose.
Quite the opposite.

[me3]

Protests and rallies outside news stations rarely get covered.

[Oliver]

Protests and rallies outside news stations rarely get covered.


Depends on what you understand under "Major Protest". :D

[VRP08]

What kind of polls are those?!?! If the people had a say in those polls to begin with!I never got a chance to vote in those polls! How are we supposed to vote in those fox polls???

[me3]

Depends on what you understand under "Major Protest". :D
If they are willing to exclude Paul at all costs, believe me, they will find a way not to report the rally outside. We'd have to film it ourselves and get the coverage to MSNBC, ABC and others.

[MsDoodahs]

How are we supposed to vote in those fox polls???

You aren't. That's the idea.

[F3d]

.......

[MsDoodahs]

If they are willing to exclude Paul at all costs, believe me, they will find a way not to report the rally outside. We'd have to film it ourselves and get the coverage to MSNBC, ABC and others.

Even then, they won't run it.

Ron has them worried.

Ron has them worried because of US.

Let's don't lose sight of this.

WE are a powerful force.

[Seanmc30]

What kind of polls are those?!?! If the people had a say in those polls to begin with!I never got a chance to vote in those polls! How are we supposed to vote in those fox polls???


To Qualify you have to


1. Be worth over 1 Billion dollars
2. Profiting from the war
3. Own a major Oil Company
4. Agree with Hannity, O'reilly, Malkin, or Coulter on anything

[freelance]

Taco John,

I know. I saw the polls, but the paper thinks he's coming, so hopefully....

The paper is wrong. I talked with the author, James Beaumont, and he read the press release wrong. It IS ambiguous. Also note that the original article (I don't know if he's changed it yet) says that RP polled at 5% in the Des Moines Register, when he actually polled at 4%.

[torchbearer]

Even then, they won't run it.

Ron has them worried.

Ron has them worried because of US.

Let's don't lose sight of this.

WE are a powerful force.

QFT.

[jopec]

Blog http://blogs.dmregister.com/?p=9788 says

That would include (...) U.S. Rep. Ron Paul of Texas (...).

It could leave out U.S. Reps. Duncan Hunter of California and Tom Tancredo of Colorado. (even, if Tancredo has 5% in last poll)

[Natalie]

I'm down for another trip to IA ;)

[UtahApocalypse]

Blog http://blogs.dmregister.com/?p=9788 says

That would include (...) U.S. Rep. Ron Paul of Texas (...).

It could leave out U.S. Reps. Duncan Hunter of California and Tom Tancredo of Colorado.


The reporter of that article was contacted and re-read the press release. He is aware that the article is NOT correct. Hopefully there will be a correction soon.

[Nash]

I dug this to spread the word and let people be aware that he's in danger of being excluded. Please digg the article and comment (don't freak out in the comments) so we can spread the word and hopefully encourage people to campaign harder, especially in Iowa.

http://digg.com/2008_us_elections/Ron_Paul_may_be_excluded_from_Iowa_Fox_News_Debate

[The Good Doctor]

Tee Hee! That's the spirit! :D


Oh, this ain't gonna FUCKING happen on my watch.

This is it.

[aspiringconstitutionalist]

If there really are plans in the works to exclude Ron Paul, then our mission shouldn't be flooding the Fox phone lines and planning a giant Woodstock protest, it should be getting Ron up high enough in the polls to warrant his inclusion. This means we're going to have to go door to door, hit every public place, fundraise our asses off, and talk to every single person we can in Iowa to get his numbers up. We down?

[starless]

If there really are plans in the works to exclude Ron Paul, then our mission shouldn't be flooding the Fox phone lines and planning a giant Woodstock protest, it should be getting Ron up high enough in the polls to warrant his inclusion. This means we're going to have to go door to door, hit every public place, fundraise our asses off, and talk to every single person we can in Iowa to get his numbers up. We down?

We should do both.

1. Hit the ground in Iowa doing traditional grassroots campaigning.

2. Plan a MASSIVE Woodstock-style exodus to Iowa during this debate.

3. Decide what mood to be in once we find out whether or not he will be included. Regardless, the show of support would be a good thing.

[ladyliberty]

Hey if they broadcast the debates (and what other point is there for having the debate?)- Ron Paul can actually demand EQUAL air time!

This article was written concerning Steven Colbert and speaks about the FCC equal air time rules... http://www.broadcastlawblog.com/archives/political-broadcasting-stephen-colbert-equal-opportunities-and-the-case-of-the-candidate-host.html

[The Good Doctor]

And I prefer it this way. This is a Revolution you know.

The more they hold us or Dr. Paul back the stronger we become. The more people will see through the shills and the Emperor's Clothes. And it is already starting. Dr. Paul made Hannity look like a fool at the last debate post interview.

Fact is one simple question?

How can one person raise so much money and not be included in debates, polls etc? There is only one answer. And it is the reason our numbers grow. :D


They have no idea the wrath to be set upon them.

[The Good Doctor]

I liken this to a football game or a concert. Sure crazy for freedom and liberty. And crazy because we are fed up with the government BS.


its stuff like that , that the msm uses to paint us as crazy

[The Good Doctor]

Exactly. It would bode better for the Revolution if he is not included.


I think Fox News will let him in it because they would rather let him in the debate and ignore him, than face the wrath and the bad pub they would get if they dont let him in.

[The Good Doctor]

There will be more than 5000 there. I guarantee if he is excluded we could get 10,000 in Iowa. Heck the rally at Michigan was 2000 alone. And they aren't too far from Iowa. Could be a great assignment for a poli sci class. :D


We will car pool in 5,000 people.

We will infiltrate their audience and disrupt their prime time programming with Ron Paul chants and t-shirts.

It will be the biggest embarrassment Fox News has ever seen.

Find out how we get in that audience.

[The Good Doctor]

It's because they only have 3.2 beer there. :D


This makes it plain to see the truth.

During my trips to Iowa, I have been very surprised at the apathy I found in Iowans, generally speaking. They don't give a hoot about politics and they have no clue who is running for the GOP nomination. Hell, they have to be paid, fed, entertained and diven to the straw poll (when there are countries where people have to dodge bullets to vote).

I found that odd because I was brainwashed into thinking that the Iowa Caucus was such an important political event because Iowans are middle-America with middle American political views and fervor.

Instead, it's a rigged dog and pony show, like everything else in this bought and paid for monopoly haven of a country.

We have the numbers already to win their stupid Caucus, but I emphatically believe they will fix the results with Diebold machines.

I would love to see a credible exit poll strategy in place. Short of that, kiss Iowa goodbye, IMO.

I'm personally sick to death of these lazy, fat, pussified, owned jackasses hijacking my country and so adversely affecting my life. I've made the trip to Iowa twice so far, I'll gladly make it again and again. If we can get 10,000 supporters there, count me IN.

Bosso

[The Good Doctor]

Gloating in secret fear. He probably went home and cried because he is so scared.


My friend in Iowa forwarded me the email. He's a Rudy supporter, and was gloating the Ron Paul isn't going to be in the next debate.

[Mayflower]

I E-mailed Craig Robinson From The Iowa Gop Today. His Response Was That Ron Paul Recieved A Letter From The Gop This Morning About The Dec. 4 Debate. He Will Have Until November 30 To Meet The Criteria. Called Hq To Verify But No One Answered.

[The Good Doctor]

Yeah an Iowa money bomb if Ron Paul isn't allowed into the debate.


The campaign could set up a fund raising drive for advertising money, and run ads throughout the debate. Boy would that ever be effective.

[wgadget]

It's dirty tricks... They're purposefully being submersive about this.

Submersive? I hope they're not drowning.

[bbachtung]

Equal time only applies to broadcast television, and I think that the debate would be considered a bona fide news event.

[Hook]

Anyone care to bring a chainsaw and slice through all of Fox's camera cables snaking out to their sat-trucks during the debate?

[Thurston Howell III]

So, it's up to a Fox poll. Didn't their pollster frank luntz admit on National TV that he could make anyone say anything by the words he chose to use?

There's no way this isn't rigged. If Paul is exlcluded we need a huge presence in Des Moines with a total lack of tolerence. I'd go, and not alone either.

[Hook]

I don't think Fox understands the shit-storm they are about to step into.

[RobotJaxxon]

Can RP just buy a few commercial slots on the same channel during the debates? He'd probably get more airtime that way anyways....

[Thurston Howell III]

I don't think Fox understands the shit-storm they are about to step into.

On the other hand, mayby they do. They could think they are sitting us up and will do something to turn public opinion against us/Paul. But it will back fire, as always, because they don't learn. The public doesn't usually like to see an under dog get cheated, public opinion will turn against Fox one day.

[fj45lvr]

Anyone care to bring a chainsaw and slice through all of Fox's camera cables snaking out to their sat-trucks during the debate?

They could just re-air the recording later.


This is huge. We MUST stay in the national debates as being excluded is big-time "isolationism" and keeping him from the people he needs (many will be watching closer to the primaries and people respond to Paul's limited time given)

It is time that we MAKE a STAND and DON'T let them get away with this....I don't care if I am jailed or tarred and feathered.

The time has come to "take out" these DEMAGOGUES by any and every means possible.

WE are on the EDGE folks without Paul we will see the AGE of Fascist SOCIALISM entrenched in all aspects of the Government.

They tell us, sir, that we are weak; unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the next week, or the next year? Will it be when we are totally disarmed, and when a British guard shall be stationed in every house? Shall we gather strength by irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance, by lying supinely on our backs, and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot? Sir, we are not weak if we make a proper use of those means which the God of nature hath placed in our power. Three millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us. Besides, sir, we shall not fight our battles alone. There is a just God who presides over the destinies of nations; and who will raise up friends to fight our battles for us. The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave. Besides, sir, we have no election. If we were base enough to desire it, it is now too late to retire from the contest. There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston! The war is inevitable²and let it come! I repeat it, sir, let it come

[LibertyOfOne]

Welcome to the forums Oliver. There are many skeptics lurking in the shadows here. :O
As for the Fox News debate. We could always have our own event if Ron is excluded from the debate. We could have it televised on stations in Iowa. If we have the right dollar amount we could buy some air time.

[American]

Can anyone confirm the actual claim being made here?

I didnt read 12 pages os posts but Taco John has prior bullshit posting record.

[bgky4paul]

If Dr. Paul is excluded, I am 100% committed to driving to Des Moines for the protest! Viva La Revolution!!!!

[LibertyOfOne]

Can anyone confirm the actual claim being made here?

I didnt read 12 pages os posts but Taco John has prior bullshit posting record.

Yes, we need to confirm this before we commit to anything.

[American]

Yes, we need to confirm this before we commit to anything.

I'm reading the calendar from Iowa GOP and I dont see anything.

[Swmorgan77]

Yeah but, we need to confirm this before we attack Fox. What if this is totally false and they just think we're crazy?

why because Fox hasn't merited attacking yet?

[American]

why because Fox hasn't merited attacking yet?

No, because Taco John ...

http://www.iowagop.net/eventscalender.asp?page=2

maybe its me but I dont see anything for that date. Am I missing something here?

[Danke]

Im with you man... im fucking canadian, and i'd drive my ass up there to protest.

The revolution needs to happen... FUUUUUUUUUUCk this makes me sooo mad.:mad:

If ya bring some of that Canadian beer with ya, I'm in!

[walt]

DO NOT CALL THIS NUMBER.... Contact: Mary Tiffany (515) 282-8105

Call the Iowa Ron Paul HQ at (515) 280-1136

It is FOX, not the Iowa GOP - The Ron Paul Iowa people do NOT want people contacting the Iowa GOP - I REPEAT - DO NOT CONTACT THE IOWA GOP.

These guys need to hear our voices as "likely voters"

American Research Group, Inc. 814 Elm Street Manchester, NH 03101 603/624-4081

[Taco John]

Can anyone confirm the actual claim being made here?

I didnt read 12 pages os posts but Taco John has prior bullshit posting record.

You're nothing short of a liar.

This has already been overwhelmingly been confirmed.

[American]

Liar.

Substantiate your shit then, and prove it. I had asked for some confirmation so far this is just a "Taco John" report which means nothing in the real world.

Until then your a bona fide bone smuggler.

[Taco John]

Substantiate your shit then, and prove it. I had asked for some confirmation so far this is just a "Taco John" report which means nothing in the real world.

Until then your a bona fide bone smuggler.


It's already been confirmed. I fought this battle this morning. I'm not going to do it again for late comers who are name calling without bothering to read.

[Hook]

So far it looks legit.

[Taco John]

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=32925

[JoshLowry]

No, because Taco John is an asshole with a history of posting bullshit.

http://www.iowagop.net/eventscalender.asp?page=2

maybe its me but I dont see anything for that date. Am I missing something here?


Personal attacks are not allowed.

Read the guidelines please.

[Hook]

There is some discrepency about which polls need to be 5% though.

[American]

It's already been confirmed. I fought this battle this morning. I'm not going to do it again for late comers who are name calling without bothering to read.

Is it in this thread?

I find it hard to believe you cant provide a link to something to substantiate your claim here.

Its not on the Iowa GOP site and I cant find anything about FOX either.

[austin356]

If Ron is excluded we:

1)hold a rally of 10,000 next door
2)play commercials equal to what his air time should have been

[Paulite5112007]

In this thread and in other threads other people have idependantly verified this - included in the other thread (earlier in this one?) is a link to a press release documenting the requirements.

Its been cofirmed by mutilple people independently.

[walt]

If Ron is excluded we:

1)hold a rally of 10,000 next door
2)play commercials equal to what his air time should have been

Do you really think they'd sell them to us? It is the same network.

[Hook]

If Ron is excluded we:

1)hold a rally of 10,000 next door
2)play commercials equal to what his air time should have been

I don't think they sell commercials in 5 second spots :p

[Taco John]

Is it in this thread?

I find it hard to believe you cant provide a link to something to substantiate your claim here.

Its not on the Iowa GOP site and I cant find anything about FOX either.


I spent hours this morning fighting this battle. It's been OVERWHELMINGLY substantiated. All you have to do is read this thread. All of the information is in it MULTIPLE times.

[me3]

Ron has not been excluded yet. Sit tight folks. Dn't get hung up on this and stop working.

Keep working!

[The Good Doctor]

Yeah the news media had more on Nancy Grace having twins than Ron Paul news. :D


This really is infuriating, I think on a domestic level Fox News is the most dangerous organization in the country because of the distorted role it plays in public opinion. Thats not to say that the others are much better, but Fox is far and away the most manipulative, dishonest, and damaging.

For God's sake, we are the people here....We swing the votes, we donate the money, we pay the advertisers, and we make the decisions. There has got to be some way we can get around Fox News, there must be some way to bypass them all together.

I think eventually, we need to stop thinking about simply boycotting Fox and start thinking about exposing this dishonesty on a NATIONAL level.... In a world so full of distortion and dishonesty, there is simply no room for this kind of media abuse.


The world needs to know that Fox News is just a glorified 24 hour Nancy Grace with cool graphics!!! NOT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY!

[freelance]

John Taco is right. It has been confirmed through multiple sources. You'll just have to wade through all of the threads. To be really clear, AS OF NOW, he's not met the requirements, but that could change.

Now, here's the real scoop. Ron Paul has to garner 5% of national polls, polls of FOX NEWS' choosing before the debates, national polls of their choosing right before the debates. Who the hell knows what polls they'll choose.

[Paulite5112007]

http://www.iowagop.net/shownews.asp?artid=33

*Verified*

[walt]

http://www.iowagop.net/shownews.asp?artid=33

*Verified*

DO NOT CALL THIS NUMBER.... Contact: Mary Tiffany (515) 282-8105

Call the Iowa Ron Paul HQ at (515) 280-1136

It is FOX, not the Iowa GOP - The Ron Paul Iowa people do NOT want people contacting the Iowa GOP - I REPEAT - DO NOT CONTACT THE IOWA GOP.

These guys need to hear our voices as "likely voters"

American Research Group, Inc. 814 Elm Street Manchester, NH 03101 603/624-4081

[fj45lvr]

Well as someone who buys commercial time I would say that the odds are pretty better than not that the slots are already filled. I am sure this is "prime" advertising...

We are on the verge right now. We can't let the thugs take us out now without FIGHTING back. Get 40000 people to surround this debate location.....jam the streets full of parked trucks and cars. And have a single DECLARATION OF LIBERTY posted all over the place!! NO OTHER WORDS need to be spoken out loud. NO yelling, nothing. A DECLARATION and A SMOTHERING WALL of PEOPLE

[American]

John Taco is right. It has been confirmed through multiple sources. You'll just have to wade through all of the threads. To be really clear, AS OF NOW, he's not met the requirements, but that could change.

Now, here's the real scoop. Ron Paul has to garner 5% of national polls, polls of FOX NEWS' choosing before the debates, national polls of their choosing right before the debates. Who the hell knows what polls they'll choose.

I dont get it, these poll numbers are 30 days old, isnt there any new poll numbers?

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071007/NEWS09/71005048/-1/caucus

Brownback isnt even in the race anymore?

[fj45lvr]

NEWSFLASH:

bush from today: "the United States will not IGNORE your OPPRESSION" (to musharif)

So IRONIC isn't it.

[Paulite5112007]

I dont get it, these poll numbers are 30 days old, isnt there any new poll numbers?

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071007/NEWS09/71005048/-1/caucus

Brownback isnt even in the race anymore?

No word yet on when the new poll will be. As it stands, there is no way FOX will let him poll at over 5% nationally. That leaves us with having to average at least 5% across the two other polls. By the wording of the press release, this would automatically allow him to join as FOX only uses discretion on a national level. This makes sense - make 5% in Iowa polling and you can debate in Iowa. Period. While I dont agree with it coinsidering the 5% margin of error - its their playground and they have all the toys.

[jake]

A special forum should be created to discuss the action plan to deal with this attempted exclusion! Remember: THE POLL FOX WILL USE TO QUALIFY WHO WILL BE IN THE DEBATE WILL BE A FOX NEWS POLL! What a load of crap. People are NOT this stupid. this will backfire on Fox.

I can see this shaping up to be THE defining battle of the Ron Paul campaign!

Prepare to fight Fox tooth and nail, this is utter disregard to democracy and corporate pandering at it worst.

[American]

No word yet on when the new poll will be. As it stands, there is no way FOX will let him poll at over 5% nationally. That leaves us with having to average at least 5% across the two other polls. By the wording of the press release, this would automatically allow him to join as FOX only uses discretion on a national level. This makes sense - make 5% in Iowa polling and you can debate in Iowa. Period. While I dont agree with it coinsidering the 5% margin of error - its their playground and they have all the toys.

http://www.usaelectionpolls.com/


As for the Republican CNN national poll, the Republicans are all doing better than they ever have. Ron Paul is at 5%, Duncan Hunter is at 4%, even Tom Tancredo is at 3%. The Unsure vote is dwindling as well.

Not that this means anything, but he will surely go up then down. If not I say we riot and burn buildings.

[Mortikhi]

DO NOT CALL THIS NUMBER.... Contact: Mary Tiffany (515) 282-8105

Call the Iowa Ron Paul HQ at (515) 280-1136

It is FOX, not the Iowa GOP - The Ron Paul Iowa people do NOT want people contacting the Iowa GOP - I REPEAT - DO NOT CONTACT THE IOWA GOP.

These guys need to hear our voices as "likely voters"

American Research Group, Inc. 814 Elm Street Manchester, NH 03101 603/624-4081
"Its not us, we're just following orders!!!!!", cry the jackboots

Horsesh*t I say

[Richandler]

What are the chances we can flood the area with 10,000 Ron Paul supporters!?

[Vvick727]

What are the chances we can flood the area with 10,000 Ron Paul supporters!?

is that the best we can do? :p

[jesshwarren]

We GOT to do somthing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!

[fj45lvr]

I can see this shaping up to be THE defining battle of the Ron Paul campaign!

Prepare to fight Fox tooth and nail, this is utter disregard to democracy and corporate pandering at it worst.

Yes you are right on this account.


This is the whole shootin match....no "pollsters" can work in collusion with Networks to "shape" the outcome of elections (we all know thats what happens though)......

We just need to have the BALLS to put a stop to it. PERIOD


a DECLARATION OF LIBERTY needs to be drafted....with the grievances.

[progrock]

I got a brilliant idea.
how about we just setup ron paul outside the debate with all of his supporters. contact a local news organization. and we'll have our OWN damn debate EXCLUDING the other GOP candidates.
We can live stream it on the net, you tube it, ron paul radio it. ect ect.

[michaeldk]

http://blogs.dmregister.com/?cat=53

[The Good Doctor]

Yeah make sure the commercial airs during the debate! :D


Do you really think they'd sell them to us? It is the same network.

[Hook]

I think the chainsaw to the cables trick would work a lot better myself.

[Hook]

If Ron doesn't get heard, NOBODY gets heard.

[M.Bellmore]

Two ideas come to mind:

1. Largest RP event next door ever (make the Philly rally seem small)
2. International Rally - RP seems to have significant international support. Is there some way to link it all together for an Iowa event? (we could sing we are the world :p)

[M.Bellmore]

Sounds like the money bomb date might have to be Dec 4

[sparebulb]

This is what happens when we let injustice go unchecked. I remember back in 2000 when Alan Keyes was denied participation in a Republican debate and showed up at the event and was promptly arrested. I was furious that none of the other limp-dick Republican candidates would lift a finger to stand up for him. The Republicans have been selling out incrementally for a long time. Let's bring them back in line.

[ChooseLiberty]

Don't know if this has been mentioned -

One of the first things to do should be to make sure this potential exclusion gets dropped into the conversation on the MSM.

Dr Paul's getting huge publicity right now. Make sure the media people know what's going on with Iowa before he takes an interview. Especially the Iowa papers and TV.

I doubt if many people in the media are aware of this situation.

[TheEvilDetector]

Iowan Meetup People, this is HIGH time you figure out how to fix this.

What is necessary (and legal of course) MUST be done!!!!

[ladyliberty]

FCC rules say they have to give ALL the candidates equal time - how long do the Fox debates usually last???

[sparebulb]

Don't know if this has been mentioned -

One of the first things to do should be to make sure this potential exclusion gets dropped into the conversation on the MSM.

Dr Paul's getting huge publicity right now. Make sure the media people know what's going on with Iowa before he takes an interview. Especially the Iowa papers and TV.

I doubt if many people in the media are aware of this situation.

I agree. Play the networks off one another. Make them want to look like they are the champion of the democratic process and the other guy is the fascist.

[Chad]

yeah

[ladyliberty]

EQUAL TIME RULE

U.S. Broadcasting Regulatory Rule

It is the closest thing in broadcast content regulation to the "golden rule." The equal time, or more accurately, the equal opportunity provision of the Communications Act requires radio and television stations and cable systems which originate their own programming to treat legally qualified political candidates equally when it comes to selling or giving away air time. Simply put, a station which sells or gives one minute to Candidate A must sell or give the same amount of time with the same audience potential to all other candidates for the particular office. However, a candidate who can not afford time does not receive free time unless his or her opponent is also given free time. Thus, even with the equal time law, a well funded campaign has a significant advantage in terms of broadcast exposure for the candidate.

The equal opportunity requirement dates back to the first major broadcasting law in the United States, the Radio Act of 1927. Legislators were concerned that without mandated equal opportunity for candidates, some broadcasters might try to manipulate elections. As one congressman put it, "American politics will be largely at the mercy of those who operate these stations." When the Radio Act was superseded by the Communications Act of 1934, the equal time provision became Section 315 of the new statute.

A major amendment to Section 315 came in 1959 following a controversial Federal Communications Commission (FCC) interpretation of the equal time provision. Lar Daly, who had run for a variety of public offices, sometimes campaigning dressed as Uncle Sam, was running for mayor of Chicago. Daly demanded free air time from Chicago television stations in response to the stations' news coverage of incumbent mayor Richard Daley. Although the airtime given to Mayor Daley was not directly related to his re-election campaign, the FCC ruled that his appearance triggered the equal opportunity provision of Section 315. Broadcasters interpreted the FCC's decision as now requiring equal time for a candidate anytime another candidate appeared on the air, even if the appearance was not linked to the election campaign.

Congress reacted quickly by creating four exemptions to the equal opportunity law. Stations who gave time to candidates on regularly scheduled newscasts, news interviews shows, documentaries (assuming the candidate wasn't the primary focus of the documentary), or on-the-spot news events would not have to offer equal time to other candidates for that office. In creating these exemptions, Congress stressed that the public interest would be served by allowing stations the freedom to cover the activities of candidates without worrying that any story about a candidate, no matter how tangentially related to his or her candidacy, would require equal time. The exemptions to Section 315 have also served the interests of incumbent candidates, since by virtue of their incumbency they often generate more news coverage then their challengers.

Since 1959, the FCC has provided a number of interpretations to Section 315's exemptions. Presidential press conferences have been labeled on-the-spot news, even if the president uses his remarks to bolster his campaign. Since the 1970s, debates have also been considered on-the-spot news events and therefore exempt from the equal time law. This has enabled stations or other parties arranging the debates to choose which candidates to include in a debate. Before this ruling by the FCC, Congress voted to suspend Section 315 during the 1960 presidential campaign to allow Richard Nixon and John Kennedy to engage in a series of debates without the participation of third party candidates. The FCC has also labeled shows such as The Phil Donahue Show and Good Morning America news interview programs. However, appearances by candidates in shows which do not fit under the four exempt formats will trigger the equal opportunities provision, even if the appearance is irrelevant to the campaign. Therefore, during Ronald Reagan's political campaigns, if a station aired one of his films, it would have been required to offer equal time to Mr. Reagan's opponents.


Section 315 also prohibits a station from censoring what a candidate says when he or she appears on the air (unless it is in one of the exempt formats). Thus, a few years ago when a self-avowed segregationist was running for the governorship of Georgia, the FCC rejected citizen complaints over the candidate's use in his ads of derogatory language towards African-Americans. More recently, the FCC has also rejected attempts to censor candidate ads depicting aborted fetuses. However, the Commission has permitted stations to channel such ads to times of day when children are less likely to be in the audience.

The equal opportunity law does not demand that a station afford a state or local candidate any air time. However, under the public interest standard of the Communications Act, the FCC has said that stations should make time available for candidates for major state and local offices. With regard to federal candidates, broadcast stations have much less discretion. A 1971 amendment to the Communications Act requires stations make a reasonable amount of time available to federal candidates. Once time is made available under this provision, the equal time requirements of Section 315 apply.

The 1971 amendments also addressed the rates which stations can charge candidates for air time. Before 1971, Congress only required that the rates charged candidates be comparable to those offered to commercial advertisers. Now, Section 315 commands that as the election approaches, stations must offer candidates the rate it offers its most favored advertiser. Thus, if a station gives a discount to a commercial sponsor because it buys a great deal of air time, the station must offer the same discount to any candidate regardless of how much time he or she purchases.

-Howard Klieman

FURTHER READING

Donahue, Hugh Carter. The Battle to Control Broadcast News: Who Owns the First Amendment? Cambridge, Massachusetts: MIT Press, 1989.

Rowan, Ford. Broadcast Fairness: Doctrine, Practice, Prospects: A Reappraisal of the Fairness Doctrine and Equal Time Rule. New York: Longman, 1984.



See also Deregulation; Federal Communications Commission; Political Processes and Television

[NewEnd]

sounds like blackmail

Paul says, get us in those debates, and we buy 750,000 in tv ads.

Its dirty, but politics is a dirty business.

[orp]

Just sent an email to Chairman of the Iowa GOP (see below). I seriously doubt whether he will respond. Some quick thoughts. If there is a 5% poll requirement, Ron Paul won't make it (maybe 4.76% or so) because poll will be rigged.

What to do? I suggest a Dec 4 money bomb aimed at debate exclusion. I will be mad enough to double Nov 5th contribution and I think many others will be also.
Use the money raised that day to buy TV time on most popular shows following the debate - Not a single penny to Fox- only ABC, CBS, NBC. Show series of Ron Paul ads - We would get much more exposure that way than in the debate anyway and the unfairness of Ron's being excluded would play well across America. Lets turn this thing to Ron's advantage. Save the gas money for the drive to Iowa and put it in TV ads that people will watch. Play the "underdog" and "mistreated" card. BIG Time with big money.

Mr. Hoffman,

I notice that in your announcement of the December 4
presidential debate sponsored by the Iowa Republican party,
you state that you will "host a debate featuring major
Republican candidates."

You use the word "major" rather than "all" Republican
candidates. Does this mean that the Iowa Republican Party
intends to exclude some of our Republican presidential
candidates? I surely hope this is not the case. There have
been seven debates to date, and the sponsors of all those
debates have acted in a fair and impartial manner by
including all candidates. While it is true that the "top
tier" candidates were given more time and more questions to
answer, nonetheless, all candidates were included. I hope it
would not fall to the Republican Party of Iowa to be the
first to act unfairly. All of our Republican candidates
have made major sacrifices to run a presidential campaign
and their supporters have worked hard and also made
sacrifices of time and money. They ALL deserve to be heard
and treated respectfully.

[Shaun]

Guys, you all need to relax, it will make no difference if he's in those debates or not. Don't put up resistance, just let them do what they are going to do. Believe me when you guys raise 10 Million Dollars on Dec 16th it will make the debate organizers wish that the ground would swallow them. They will be in ruins.
It's over, the Dr will win all of this.
Put your energy into getting behind the guys who pulled off the historic event yesterday.
Believe me, the 10 Million raised on that day makes RP the nominee and most likely next President. Raise him 10 Million and it's all over for them.
Focus on the BIG things, that will make a BIG difference in a BIG hurry. Dec 16th victory at 10m = Paul in the White House, all the rest of it is a sideshow, including the debate.
Really. PR is my business.
Focus people, focus.

[mtmedlin]

Instead of bitching lets focus our attention on helping Iowa and get RP up to at least 5%. Then there is no problem and he gets a six way debate.

[Dlynne]

Maybe the Iowans on this forum can identify themselves, and tell us how to help?

[Cali4RonPaul]

Guys, you all need to relax, it will make no difference if he's in those debates or not. Don't put up resistance, just let them do what they are going to do. Believe me when you guys raise 10 Million Dollars on Dec 16th it will make the debate organizers wish that the ground would swallow them. They will be in ruins.
It's over, the Dr will win all of this.
Put your energy into getting behind the guys who pulled off the historic event yesterday.
Believe me, the 10 Million raised on that day makes RP the nominee and most likely next President. Raise him 10 Million and it's all over for them.
Focus on the BIG things, that will make a BIG difference in a BIG hurry. Dec 16th victory at 10m = Paul in the White House, all the rest of it is a sideshow, including the debate.
Really. PR is my business.
Focus people, focus.

I think it matters a great deal that he is at every one of the debates, alot of name recognition is generated in that manner. It is very critical to garner more public support.

[curiousobserver]

outrageous!!

[freedominnumbers]

I think a peaceful gathering adjacent to or outside of the debate will do little to make up for the exclusion. There will be no media coverage of RP supporters milling around outside the debate.

If we intend to perform any action in the event of exclusion it needs to be something that makes a true statement and shows the viewers on TV and in the hall that we exist and in large numbers, even if it means interfering with the debate.

If you don't let the people know we have been excluded then they won't know. It also makes no sense to spend a fortune on advertising on the same network who is conspiring to destroy you.

The problem of FOX itself should probably be dealt with through PACS after the campaign is over by running advertising which exposes FOX and other media outlets.

This is only of course if the Fox Poll is still reporting 1% at the end of November.

[Geronimo]

h ttp://mwcnews.net/content/view/17897&Itemid=1

Ron Paul may be excluded from Iowa Fox News Debate!
By Shahram Vahdany

The Iowa Republican Party and Fox News Channel announced today plans for a Dec. 4 debate of the GOP presidential campaigns in Des Moines.

The Tuesday evening event is scheduled for Hy-Vee Hall in Des Moines and comes as the race to the Jan. 3 caucuses enters its final month.

It was unclear who would attend, although only those candidates who had support of at least 5 percent of those surveyed in recent national polls or The Des Moines Register’s Iowa Poll are invited, Iowa GOP officials said.

That would include former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani, Arizona Sen. John McCain, U.S. Rep. Ron Paul of Texas, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney and former Tennessee Sen. Fred Thompson. It could leave out U.S. Reps. Duncan Hunter of California and Tom Tancredo of Colorado.

Edit: This is what I don't get...

"It was unclear who would attend, although only those candidates who had support of at least 5 percent of those surveyed in recent national polls or The Des Moines Register’s Iowa Poll are invited, Iowa GOP officials said.

That would include former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani, Arizona Sen. John McCain, U.S. Rep. Ron Paul of Texas, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney and former Tennessee Sen. Fred Thompson. It could leave out U.S. Reps. Duncan Hunter of California and Tom Tancredo of Colorado.

It doesn't sound like he's excluded

[Adamsa]

I can't see him being left out after that huge ass fund raise we just did. He SHOULD meet 5% anyway.

[max]

Leaving RP out after he got all this media exposure would cause serious blowback in our favor...

You remember what happened when they left him out last time in Iowa.

They better not fuck with us

[dt_]

We already have a thread to discuss this.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=32844

Please let's try and avoid duplicate discussions for the sake of effective conversation :)

[Pride]

Leaving RP out after he got all this media exposure would cause serious blowback in our favor...

You remember what happened when they left him out last time in Iowa.

They better not fuck with us

There would be HUGE blowback if the left him out, and it would work to our favor.

[Geronimo]

Mods can delete if they want.

[RockEnds]

So, I went back 10 pages or so, and as best as I could tell, the IA GOP did get back to someone, and Ron Paul is excluded unless his polling numbers are up by the end of November. Is that a fair assessment of what's been confirmed?

[Paulite5112007]

There would be HUGE blowback if the left him out, and it would work to our favor.


I still think to win the nomination he needs to be viewed as viable to vote for by those that dont use these internets - and that means he needs to be at these debates.

[brianbb98]

as bad as we may see this being... the youtube debate will be in a couple weeks and i think people we have a better chance to learn about dr paul then the 1/20th of the time they usually give him during these things

[freedominnumbers]

So, I went back 10 pages or so, and as best as I could tell, the IA GOP did get back to someone, and Ron Paul is excluded unless his polling numbers are up by the end of November. Is that a fair assessment of what's been confirmed?

That's exactly what I got from 23 pages.

[RockEnds]

They're trying to call us out.

[Paulite5112007]

More specifically, since it is unlikely that FOX will determine RP has 5% nationally on their own - we are left with two polls that must average 5%. These polls measure only IOWA support. They had him at 4% and 1% respectively when they were taken last.

[Danny Molina]

You use the word "major" rather than "all" Republican
candidates. Does this mean that the Iowa Republican Party
intends to exclude some of our Republican presidential
candidates? I surely hope this is not the case. There have
been seven debates to date, and the sponsors of all those
debates have acted in a fair and impartial manner by
including all candidates. While it is true that the "top
tier" candidates were given more time and more questions to
answer, nonetheless, all candidates were included. I hope it would not fall to the Republican Party of Iowa to be the
first to act unfairly. All of our Republican candidates
have made major sacrifices to run a presidential campaign
and their supporters have worked hard and also made
sacrifices of time and money. They ALL deserve to be heard
and treated respectfully.

*cough* Alan Keyes *cough*

[Primbs]

The conservative talk radio shows are trying to narrow the field down also. They are suggesting conservatives should get behind Mitt or some other candidate.

[paulitics]

The conservative talk radio shows are trying to narrow the field down also. They are suggesting conservatives should get behind Mitt or some other candidate.

I noticed that 3 weeks ago. All of them, at the same time.

[V-rod]

I would rather Congressman Paul to be offered the debate slot and then turn it down.
The majority of people who will watch this debate have already seen the others. I don't feel good when I hear the crowd of ignorant War Mongers booing him.

[Dustancostine]

That's exactly what I got from 23 pages.

23 pages. You know you can change your setting to allow for more messages per screen?;)

--Dustan

[fj45lvr]

Personally I see the exclusion as being a SERIOUS problem because to however many million viewers (more because it is closer to the time to decide) they will unfortunately only be focused on who is there and we already know that people like to PICK WINNERS.

We are already at a disadvantage and I don't believe we can afford to take hits like this. WE NEED TO BE ON THEM LIKE A SHADOW.

[Matt Collins]

This is a matter of free speech and liberty. ALL the candidates should be allowed to participate whether the Iowa Republicans think so or not. Not it's not, and no they shouldn't (not at the force of law anyway).

FOX is a private network, and this is not broadcast over the airwaves so the FCC has no jurisdiction (not that it should anyway).

Yes, everyone should be included, but it is their debate, they own it, they are paying to put it on, and they can decide who shows up and how much time they get. We can protest and boycott which is perfectly acceptable, but we should not demand that the government forces them to conform.

[Matt Collins]

What if this is totally false and they just think we're crazy?They already think we are crazy. We can't do anything else to change their minds either way on that one! LOL :p

[Matt Collins]

They're purposefully being submersive about this.And by submersive you really meant "subversive" :D

[Matt Collins]

They could just re-air the recording later.No, most recordings like that are done in the truck because the enviroment is controlled and they don't have to lug recording equipment into the venue. Cutting the truck cables would pretty much ensure the debate was over.

If they are smart (and I hope they are for their own sake) they have security next to the truck.


I am an audio engineer and do broadcast and live concerts.

[Suzu]

Don't bother with Fox - they won't budge as they try and rig this election.

Murdoch must have sent a memo demanding that RP be kept out of this debate come hell or high water, or else heads will roll.

[Taco John]

Murdoch must have sent a memo demanding that RP be kept out of this debate come hell or high water, or else heads will roll.


http://youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0