Food Stamps To Be Ended Unless Microchipped!!

[hillbilly123069]

Just found this. Seen it on several sites on a google search. Still trying to verify if it's true. or it's original source.
http://digg.com/news/world_news/urgent_food_stamps_to_be_ended_unless_microchipped

[hillbilly123069]

Verified.
http://www.ice.gov/doclib/secure-communities/pdf/sc-dep.pdf

[Kylie]

WTF.

Over.

[KCIndy]

Eh.

I don't agree with it (the microchipping), but when one agrees to be a slave, one must expect to wear the chains.

[heavenlyboy34]

Eh.

I don't agree with it (the microchipping), but when one agrees to be a slave, one must expect to wear the chains.
First they'll go after the food stamp recipients, then they'll go after you...;) :eek: Srsly, this is not a good thing to support. FS recipients already leave a paper trail because "food stamps" are debit cards now.

[brandon]

Verified.
http://www.ice.gov/doclib/secure-communities/pdf/sc-dep.pdf

I don't think this means what you think it means.

[KCIndy]

First they'll go after the food stamp recipients, then they'll go after you...;) :eek: Srsly, this is not a good thing to support. FS recipients already leave a paper trail because "food stamps" are debit cards now.


I definitely *don't* support it - if my post came across that way, I'll try to make myself clearer with this one. I find it detestable and intrusive.

But not at all surprising.

I always encourage people to look at other means of help (food kitchens, local churches, private charities) before signing up for government "aid" for exactly this reason. Signing up for government assistance/welfare is almost literally like selling your soul. It's nearly always for keeps, and with terrible consequences. I guess the "Eh" sounded rather dismissive, now that I re-read my post. It's not meant to be that way. It's just that I get so, so tired of warning people about this sort of thing, being ignored, and then watching as people discover <gasp!> that the Feds have slapped one more shackle on them.... :(

[HOLLYWOOD]

Skynet and Orwellans have been doing the dirty work for some time now... get everyone on food stamps/SNAP/etc... then you track everyone.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a361/mzcmdr/th_FOOD_STAMP_BIOMETRICS.png (http://s15.photobucket.com/albums/a361/mzcmdr/?action=view&current=FOOD_STAMP_BIOMETRICS.png)

[KCIndy]

And yeah, almost every form of financial transaction has RFID chips in it now. That includes credit and gas cards. It was only a matter of time before they would start hitting welfare chits with 'em.

[PaulConventionWV]

Eh.

I don't agree with it (the microchipping), but when one agrees to be a slave, one must expect to wear the chains.

This is much bigger than that. This is just a hint of things to come. They are phasing us into the one world government where we will all be microchipped, and you can't be a part of society if you are not "in the system." It's coming, folks. Prepare.

[KingRobbStark]

Reading this thread 6 years ago would have made me think all of you were crazy. Unfortunatly you're not.

[GunnyFreedom]

I don't think this means what you think it means.

This. Biometrics != RFID

Not saying I'm OK with this, but your confirmation is not confirmation.

[Keith and stuff]

I don't see any evidence posted in this thread. You may be correct but you just posted a random youtube video and an unrelated map. In fact, if the map means what you think it means, the government is already a couple years behind because 2009 is over with and this didn't happen in 2009.

[evadmurd]

Slavery does have it's requirements. One must choose to take the mark or not. I'm thinking the end may be closer than we imagined.

[Anti Federalist]

So what have we got here?

Has it been confirmed that, in order to receive food stamp benefits, one must now have an implanted RFID VeriChip device?

Even if that is not what is happening right now, it's coming, in the next few years and not just for food stamps.

It'll be for everything, from starting your car to accessing bank records.

So, the question is: will you take one?

[Miss Annie]

So what have we got here?

Has it been confirmed that, in order to receive food stamp benefits, one must now have an implanted RFID VeriChip device?

Even if that is not what is happening right now, it's coming, in the next few years and not just for food stamps.

It'll be for everything, from starting your car to accessing bank records.

So, the question is: will you take one?

Not just NO..... But HELL NO!!!!!!!

[hillbilly123069]

So what have we got here?

Has it been confirmed that, in order to receive food stamp benefits, one must now have an implanted RFID VeriChip device?

Even if that is not what is happening right now, it's coming, in the next few years and not just for food stamps.

It'll be for everything, from starting your car to accessing bank records.

So, the question is: will you take one?
Bring on the guillotine!

[Orgoonian]

So what have we got here?

Has it been confirmed that, in order to receive food stamp benefits, one must now have an implanted RFID VeriChip device?

Even if that is not what is happening right now, it's coming, in the next few years and not just for food stamps.

It'll be for everything, from starting your car to accessing bank records.

So, the question is: will you take one?

Nopes!

I grow, raise,hunt most of my own food,and have a well.
I don't bank,and i work for myself.I can get by with very few frn's.
Instead of having dogs to guard my place,i have ostrich's.If they happen to be shot by civil "protectors"they can be eaten.

With that said,i fully expect to enjoy all the amenities offered at camp Fema in the near future:(

[heavenlyboy34]

This is much bigger than that. This is just a hint of things to come. They are phasing us into the one world government where we will all be microchipped, and you can't be a part of society if you are not "in the system." It's coming, folks. Prepare.
Zamyatin predicted this ~80 years ago. :eek:

[heavenlyboy34]

I definitely *don't* support it - if my post came across that way, I'll try to make myself clearer with this one. I find it detestable and intrusive.

But not at all surprising.

I always encourage people to look at other means of help (food kitchens, local churches, private charities) before signing up for government "aid" for exactly this reason. Signing up for government assistance/welfare is almost literally like selling your soul. It's nearly always for keeps, and with terrible consequences. I guess the "Eh" sounded rather dismissive, now that I re-read my post. It's not meant to be that way. It's just that I get so, so tired of warning people about this sort of thing, being ignored, and then watching as people discover <gasp!> that the Feds have slapped one more shackle on them.... :(
I agree with that. Too bad the welfare state makes that a really difficult option. It's much easier to get a decent meal with an EBT card than to find a church or something to help out.
ETA: if you look at the back of one of those EBT cards, you'll see that they are funded by one of the big banks (in the case of Arizona, it's JP Morgan). Follow the money. ;)

[Miss Annie]

Revelations 13:16-17
16And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

[brandon]

So what have we got here?

Has it been confirmed that, in order to receive food stamp benefits, one must now have an implanted RFID VeriChip device?

Even if that is not what is happening right now, it's coming, in the next few years and not just for food stamps.

It'll be for everything, from starting your car to accessing bank records.

So, the question is: will you take one?

I usually agree with ya man but this is just paranoia. There's absolutely no way this is going to happen. Implanting a microchip under someones skin will benefit no one, including the government. I'm sure RFID devices will become more popular in the future, but not implanted ones.

[Miss Annie]

There's a pretty starling thing in the bill that 95% of Americans won't like.
ObamaCare has a microchip implant for you… The Obama Health care bill includes (under Class II, Paragraph 1, Section B) “(ii) a class II device that is implantable”. Then on page 1004 it describes what the term “data” means in paragraph 1, section B:

14 (B) In this paragraph, the term ‘data’ refers to
15 information respecting a device described in paragraph (1),
16 including claims data, patient survey data, standardized
17 analytic files that allow for the pooling and analysis of
18 data from disparate data environments, electronic health
19 records, and any other data deemed appropriate by the
20 Secretary

As approved by the FDA, a class II implantable device is an “implantable radio frequency transponder system for patient identification and health information.”

This sort of device would be implanted in the majority of people who opt to become covered by the public health care option. With the reform of the private insurance companies, many people will switch their coverage to a more affordable insurance plan. This means the number of people who choose the public option will increase. This also means the number of people chipped will be plentiful as well. The adults who choose to have a chip implanted are the lucky (yes, lucky) ones in this case. Children who are "born in the United States who at the time of birth is not otherwise covered under acceptable coverage" will be qualified and placed into the CHIP or Children's Health Insurance Program (what a convenient name). With a name like CHIP it would seem consistent to have the chip implanted into a child. Children conceived by parents who are already covered under the public option will more than likely be implanted with a chip by the consent of the parent. Eventually everyone will be implanted with a chip.

[Keith and stuff]

I usually agree with ya man but this is just paranoia. There's absolutely no way this is going to happen. Implanting a microchip under someones skin will benefit no one, including the government. I'm sure RFID devices will become more popular in the future, but not implanted ones.

They are used right now in Mexico by private citizens. People are afraid that people are going to get stolen so some wealthy people get these. I could see US states one day pushing something like this, especially in AZ (the kidnapping capital of the US) as a way to protect kids. It's already a common practice for pet owners. As for kids, it's already common for state or local governments to fund efforts to get kids finger printed and make IDs for kids in case they are stolen.

In FL, there at least was (is?) an effort to get some folks on welfare drug tested.

I am not saying you are wrong, but I understand how Christian fundies are able to tie the bible to these modern day events and predict things will be much worse in the future. Are a lot of the fundies doing this as a way to make money? Maybe. However, I think some of them really mean what they do on this issue.

[PierzStyx]

Reading this thread 6 years ago would have made me think all of you were crazy. Unfortunatly you're not.

I agree. I would have thought they were crazy too. Now? Now I have the overwhelming urge to go out an buy myself an armory of weapons.

[Miss Annie]

I agree. I would have thought they were crazy too. Now? Now I have the overwhelming urge to go out an buy myself an armory of weapons.

It's on my to-do list for this weekend!

[PierzStyx]

Revelations 13:16-17
16And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

its REVELATION. NOT RevelationS. Its one giant revelation, "The Revelation of St. John the Divine". ARGH! Sorry.. personal pet peeve but if you're going to quote it, at least quote it correctly.

[Anti Federalist]

I usually agree with ya man but this is just paranoia. There's absolutely no way this is going to happen. Implanting a microchip under someones skin will benefit no one, including the government. I'm sure RFID devices will become more popular in the future, but not implanted ones.

Well, let's break that down a little.

When you say that there is "absolutely no way" that such a thing will happen, you are aware that such technology already exists, is on the market, is already FDA approved for human use, and is already being used by foreign governments for access to controlled buildings?

[PierzStyx]

Nopes!

I grow, raise,hunt most of my own food,and have a well.
I don't bank,and i work for myself.I can get by with very few frn's.
Instead of having dogs to guard my place,i have ostrich's.If they happen to be shot by civil "protectors"they can be eaten.

With that said,i fully expect to enjoy all the amenities offered at camp Fema in the near future:(

Dog is edible. Just sayin.....

[John F Kennedy III]

This is much bigger than that. This is just a hint of things to come. They are phasing us into the one world government where we will all be microchipped, and you can't be a part of society if you are not "in the system." It's coming, folks. Prepare.

Nutty conspiracy theorist :rolleyes:

[John F Kennedy III]

So what have we got here?

Has it been confirmed that, in order to receive food stamp benefits, one must now have an implanted RFID VeriChip device?

Even if that is not what is happening right now, it's coming, in the next few years and not just for food stamps.

It'll be for everything, from starting your car to accessing bank records.

So, the question is: will you take one?

Fuck NO!

[OrigSEOH]

As far as I'm concerned, we have that now. FRNs and the requirement to report to the various levels of government for taxation. Everyone pretty much accepts the monetary authorities and the fact that participation in the underground economy is limited and deemed criminal activity these days.


Revelations 13:16-17
16And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

[John F Kennedy III]

I usually agree with ya man but this is just paranoia. There's absolutely no way this is going to happen. Implanting a microchip under someones skin will benefit no one, including the government. I'm sure RFID devices will become more popular in the future, but not implanted ones.

I wish you were right. But you're not :(

[Tod]

Here's another web page (government) that discusses the issue..

http://www.fns.usda.gov/ora/MENU/published/snap/FILES/ProgramIntegrity/biomeval.htm


Finger Imaging as a Deterrent to Legitimate Participants

Clients do have some concerns about finger imaging. Roughly 15% expressed concerns in the State surveys and interviews conducted to evaluate finger-imaging programs. These concerns center on issues of privacy, unjust treatment of poor people, inconvenience, and fear of interagency sharing.
There is little data on which to estimate the size of the deterrence effect. Based on the results from client surveys in five States, a substantial majority of clients had no objection to finger imaging and thought it was a good idea.
There was little evidence that clients discontinued benefits because they were intimidated by the finger-image requirement. Interviews with former clients in Texas found that only two of the 78 former food stamp recipients (both of whom had refused to be imaged) attributed their loss of benefits to finger imaging. Similar interviews in Los Angeles County found that, of those former clients interviewed, no one who refused to be finger imaged expressed a concern with the process.

[Miss Annie]

As far as I'm concerned, we have that now. FRNs and the requirement to report to the various levels of government for taxation. Everyone pretty much accepts the monetary authorities and the fact that participation in the underground economy is limited and deemed criminal activity these days.

No, we don't have that now because we can still buy and sell and it says that it will be in the hand or the forehead. I do see your relativity to it though, but I take it at face value. (Pun not really intended). We are getting so close though, especially with that legislation in Louisianna where they can't buy or sell used goods more than 2 times a month. That is just ridiculous, but definitely paving the way for the Revelations quote.

[Becker]

I hope its true, I support chipping people who receive public money or get free food.

[Revolution9]

A mark is a branding..like cattle. It resides in your hand..the implement of trade..or our forehead, which is also the seat of your personality. It has a number associated with a name and you cannot buy or sell without this mark. It is partly in your mind and partly in the way trade is handled, if you will. Everything is a part of the "system" of 666, which is the naming and giving of value to everything there is. We do this with ten digits and 26 letters. This totals 36 symbols. If you add 1 thru 36 together you get 666. Metrology is the science of measurement. Very important for codification of value. Try a google search on 666 + metrology and take note of what comes up.

"You know my name...look up my number"

Rev9

[Miss Annie]

Wow!! That is fascinating! "We cannot say that God's use of numbers is fortuitious, or meaningless". That is very interesting! I was reading about the 144.000 the other day and had a hard time wrapping my head around it. After reading that, it makes much more sense! Thank you! :)

[Revolution9]

Note the esoteric measurements behind the number 144,000

144,000 .. is a Bruce Cathie light-speed number ... as in nautical miles per second .. the 'free-space' speed-of-light .. un-bundled from any gravity/atmosphere fields of relatively large rotating celestial bodies.

144,000 .. is also the Cubic Regular-Inches Volume of the 'outside' dimensions of "The Sarcophagus" within "The King's Chamber" inside The Great Pyramid of Giza.
(90 * 38.78509449 * 41.25296125) = 144,000.
Those are the 'outside dimensions' in REGULAR INCHES ..**NOT** in so-called "Pyramid Inches". A Regular Inch is a "British" Inch in Metrology .. our principal measuring system .. and main units thereof. Handed-down to "us" by ..???

The length of the floor in "The King's Chamber" ?
Answer: 412.5296125 regular inches .. which is ALSO ..
34.37746771 regular feet .. which is ALSO .. 20 Royal ("Egyptian") Cubits.

ALSO .. 34.37746771 is a decimal harmonic .. of .. 3437.746771 ..
the Polar Radius of Planet Earth .. in .. nautical miles.

In "other language" ..

656.56127 * 1.234567901 * (18*Pi) * Pi = 144,000.



Recall, please .. Polar Radius of Planet Earth = 3437.746771 naut. mi.

[3437.746771 / (Pi * 3.326178251)] = ('Face Two' Grid LONG) * 10 ..
= (32.89868136 W.CYDONIA * 10).
(Morton, 2001, Internet).

'Face Two' .. is @ Cydonia on Mars.
32.89868136 .. is in minutes of longitude West of Cydonia "ASM" prime
meridian.

32.89868136 = (Pi / 3) * Pi * 10.

Notice .. 32.89868136 * 656.56127 = 21,600.

Recall, please ... 656.56127 is GPV of 'Face One' @ Cydonia on Mars.
(Munck, 1992, "The Code", self-published).

21,600 .. is Polar Circumference of Planet Earth, in nautical miles,
and_also_in latitude arc-minutes.

21,600 is ALSO .. Grid LAT of Stonehenge .. near to where_most_of the
most-remarkable crop formations have appeared.

144,000/21,600 = 6.6666666666666666666666666666666666666666 ad infinitum

Wrap yer head around that.

Rev9

[mrsat_98]

As far as I'm concerned, we have that now. FRNs and the requirement to report to the various levels of government for taxation. Everyone pretty much accepts the monetary authorities and the fact that participation in the underground economy is limited and deemed criminal activity these days.

D 24 Ditto "PAY TAXES" = 666 http://www.gematrix.org/?word=pay+taxes
O 90
L 72
L 72
A 6
R 108
S 114
I 54
G 42
N 84
_______
666






No, we don't have that now because we can still buy and sell and it says that it will be in the hand or the forehead. I do see your relativity to it though, but I take it at face value. (Pun not really intended). We are getting so close though, especially with that legislation in Louisianna where they can't buy or sell used goods more than 2 times a month. That is just ridiculous, but definitely paving the way for the Revelations quote.

SSNUMBER =666 http://www.gematrix.org/?word=SS+NUMBER


Wow!! That is fascinating! "We cannot say that God's use of numbers is fortuitious, or meaningless". That is very interesting! I was reading about the 144.000 the other day and had a hard time wrapping my head around it. After reading that, it makes much more sense! Thank you! :)


http://real-world-news.org/numerics/english-gematria.html

It is inescapable.

[OrigSEOH]

This system of things is branded in your mind and performed with your hands day in and day out. The Beast is mob rule, most people seem to think using biometrics is a good way to secure their identity. I have plenty of numbers associated with my identity, just about every temple (private businesses or government agency) that I have submitted myself to has given me one in order to keep track of me or organize me in a hierarchy of things. They pretty much know (If someone wanted to) where I am, my habits, how much money I don't have, when I use my debit card, and on and on. They don't need a RFID system most people generally accept the idea of a cell phone on other control systems. People live in fear; therefore, they will worship the mortal self proclaimed GODS.



No, we don't have that now because we can still buy and sell and it says that it will be in the hand or the forehead. I do see your relativity to it though, but I take it at face value. (Pun not really intended). We are getting so close though, especially with that legislation in Louisianna where they can't buy or sell used goods more than 2 times a month. That is just ridiculous, but definitely paving the way for the Revelations quote.

[Miss Annie]

D 24 Ditto "PAY TAXES" = 666 http://www.gematrix.org/?word=pay+taxes
O 90
L 72
L 72
A 6
R 108
S 114
I 54
G 42
N 84
_______
666







SSNUMBER =666 http://www.gematrix.org/?word=SS+NUMBER




http://real-world-news.org/numerics/english-gematria.html

It is inescapable.

That is fascinating! Bookmarked! You are right, it's inescapable.

[anaconda]

D 24 Ditto "PAY TAXES" = 666 http://www.gematrix.org/?word=pay+taxes
O 90
L 72
L 72
A 6
R 108
S 114
I 54
G 42
N 84
_______
666


This shouldn't be that hard. You simply find a variety of sets of numbers that add up to the 666 then make up related words. Kind of like scrabble. You could even fine tune by swapping a letter or two to get different words. I don't think there's anything ominous about this.

[torchbearer]

want to steal from your neighbor?
chip implant. depot shot. barcode and orange jump suit with SS# printed on back.

[heavenlyboy34]

want to steal from your neighbor?
chip implant. depot shot. barcode and orange jump suit with SS# printed on back.
well, everyone would have a chip then. Everyone uses public roads, facilities, etc. Be careful what you wish for. You yourself may find that you need a chip for the "privilege" of having a driver's license, passport, SS card, etc.

[torchbearer]

well, everyone would have a chip then. Everyone uses public roads, facilities, etc. Be careful what you wish for. You yourself may find that you need a chip for the "privilege" of having a driver's license, passport, SS card, etc.

agorism ftw.
i truly believe the tighter the tyrants squeeze the more people wake up.

[heavenlyboy34]

agorism ftw.
i truly believe the tighter the tyrants squeeze the more people wake up.
+666.

[torchbearer]

+666.

complete imperfection?

[CaptainAmerica]

Predecessor to mark of the beast? "Beast" referring to a new world empire in the image of a former world empire "beast" as described in the bible.

[OrigSEOH]

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/shared/AFImages/2aa100715-F-9894C-003.jpg
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/AFRL/

Work there for a couple of years...they are werk'n on some neat stuff. :rolleyes:

[anaconda]

Verified.
http://www.ice.gov/doclib/secure-communities/pdf/sc-dep.pdf

Chart says "planned." How do we know if it's been implemented in the 2009-2010-2011 areas?

[torchbearer]

Predecessor to mark of the beast? "Beast" referring to a new world empire in the image of a former world empire "beast" as described in the bible.

one needs a complete understanding of the numerology of the time of the writing of the book revelations.
the books reads a lot better. also- it may be a coicidence, but each head of the beast was the regal symbol of each of the roman governors of that time. never gets mentioned.

[torchbearer]

In Kabbalistic Judaism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabbalistic_Judaism) the number 666 represents the creation and perfection of the world.

[mrsat_98]

relevant case law.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0476_0693_ZC1.html

JUSTICE STEVENS, concurring in part and concurring in the result.

Members of the Abenaki Indian Tribe are unquestionably entitled to the same constitutional protection against governmental action "prohibiting the free exercise" of their religion as are the adherents of other faiths. [n1] Our respect for the sincerity of their religious beliefs does not, however, relieve us from the duty to identify the precise character of the two quite different claims that the parents of Little Bird of the Snow have advanced. They claim, first, that they are entitled to an injunction preventing the Government from making any use of a Social Security number assigned to Little Bird of the Snow, and second, that they are entitled to receive a full allowance of food stamps and cash assistance for Little Bird of the Snow without providing a Social Security number for her.

As the Court holds in Part II of its opinion, which I join, the first claim must fail because the Free Exercise Clause [p717] does not give an individual the right to dictate the Government's method of recordkeeping. The second claim, I submit, is either moot or not ripe for decision.

I

In order to understand the precise nature and current posture of appellees' claims, it is necessary to emphasize an extremely unusual feature of this case. At the outset of the litigation, the parties assumed -- indeed, they stipulated to -- a critical fact that was discovered to be inaccurate on the last day of the trial. Although the parties believed that Little Bird of the Snow did not have a Social Security number, the District Court found, and the parties now agree, that she has had a Social Security number since birth. The contrary belief had been central to the parties' perception of the litigation, and to the requested relief. It is thus also central to the state of the record as we find it.

At the state agency administrative hearing on the threatened withdrawal of certain benefits, the issue had been framed as whether to affirm a decision

determining the appellant's daughter, Little Bird of the Snow, ineligible for public assistance and Medical Assistance because the appellant would not apply for a Social Security Number for her. [n2]

In their complaint, Little Bird's parents alleged that "[t]he sole basis" for the denial of welfare benefits was "Mr. Roy's refusal to obtain a Social Security Number for Little Bird of the Snow," [n3] and thus requested injunctive relief, damages, and benefits. In the statement of "undisputed facts," the parties stipulated that Little Bird of the Snow did not have a Social Security number. [n4] In the District Court's opinion [p718] denying summary judgment, the court began its opinion by observing that Roy and Miller

have refused to obtain a Social Security number for their two-year-old daughter, Little Bird of the Snow, on the ground that doing so would be contrary to their Native Abenaki Indian religious beliefs. [n5]

At trial, Roy's counsel introduced his case by emphasizing that Little Bird of the Snow, unlike the other members of the family, did not have a Social Security number, and thus had not been exposed to the evil that the number represents. [n6] In Roy's own testimony, he emphasized the evil that would flow from obtaining a number. [n7] On the last day of trial, however, in response to questions, a federal official inquired, during a court recess, whether Little Bird of the Snow already had a Social Security number, and discovered that she had been assigned a Social Security number at birth. [n8]

This discovery had a dramatic impact on the litigation, and on the judgment under review. Because there was no longer any apparent basis for the dispute, the Government [p719] suggested that the case had become moot. [n9] Roy, however, responded to the discovery by changing his request for relief and asking for a cancellation of the existing number. [n10]

Concluding that the discovery did not moot the case, [n11] the District Court denied the request for damages and benefits, but granted injunctive relief. The injunction -- the judgment that we are considering -- contains two basic components. First, the Secretary of Health and Human Services is

permanently restrained from making any use of the social security number which was issued in the name of Little Bird of the Snow Roy and from disseminating the number to any agency, individual, business entity, or any other third party. [n12]

Second, the federal and state defendants are enjoined until Little Bird of the Snow's 16th birthday from denying Roy cash assistance, medical assistance, and food stamps "because of the Plaintiffs' refusal to provide a social security number for her." [n13] Of course, if the injunction preventing the Secretary from making use of the already existing number had not been granted, there would have been no apparent impediment to providing the benefits that had previously been denied.

As the case comes to us, the first question to be decided is whether the District Court erred in effectively canceling the number that had already been issued for Little Bird of the Snow, and that established the appellees' eligibility for the benefits in dispute. The Court correctly holds that the District [p720] Court did err, and that

the portion of the District Court's injunction that permanently restrained the Secretary from making any use of the Social Security number that had been issued in the name of Little Bird of the Snow Roy must be vacated.

Ante at 701. Having so held, however, the Court should pause to consider whether any other constitutional issue need be addressed. For, as the Court demonstrates, an objection to the Government's use of a Social Security number, and a possible objection to "providing" the number when the Government already has it, pose very different constitutional problems.

II

Once we vacate the injunction preventing the Government from making routine use of the number that has already been assigned to Little Bird of the Snow, there is nothing disclosed by the record to prevent the appellees from receiving the payments that are in dispute. Indeed, since the Government itself suggested to the District Court that the case had become moot as soon as it was learned that a Social Security number already existed, it is obvious that the Government perceives no difficulty in making the requested payments in the future. The only issue that prevented the case from becoming moot was the claim asserted by Roy that he was entitled to an injunction that effectively canceled the existing number. Since that issue has now been resolved, nothing remains of the case.

Neither Roy nor the Government has pointed to anything in the record suggesting that Roy will be under any further obligation to "provide" a Social Security number for Little Bird of the Snow. Even if one makes the unsupported assumption that Roy may object to filing certain forms in the future, there is a conspicuous lack of evidence and findings concerning the extent to which such requirements might impose a burden either on Roy or on any other person who finds difficulty in providing information on pertinent forms. [p721]

The absence of this information in the record is significant. Current regulations suggest that assistance for such difficulties may well be available in the programs at issue, [n14] particularly for those with mental, physical, and linguistic handicaps that prevent completion of the required forms, [n15] or other required steps in the application process. [n16] To the extent that [p722] other food stamp and welfare applicants are, in fact, offered exceptions and special assistance in response to their inability to "provide" required information, it would seem that a religious inability should be given no less deference. For our recent free exercise cases suggest that religious claims should not be disadvantaged in relation to other claims. [n17]

These considerations highlight the fact that, if this case is not moot, it surely is not ripe. The case, as litigated, simply bears no resemblance to the currently abstract question about what the Government may require if it seeks a Social Security number that it already has.

Consistent with our longstanding principles of constitutional adjudication, we should decide nothing more than is actually necessary to dispose of the precise dispute before the Court, [n18] and nothing more than is fairly presented by the [p723] record and the factual findings. [n19] Because the District Court has not made findings about the extent to which other exceptions and assistance are available for those who cannot, or do not, "provide" required information, and because there is nothing in the record to suggest that the Government will not pay the benefits in dispute as soon as the District Court's injunction against the use of the number has been vacated, I concur in the judgment vacating the remainder of the injunction. No matter how interesting, or how clear their answers may appear to be, however, I would not address the hypothetical questions debated by THE CHIEF JUSTICE and JUSTICE O'CONNOR, because they are not properly presented by the record in this case. [n20] [p724]

1. The First Amendment provides:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. . . .

2. Department of Public Welfare Adjudication, Complaint, Ex. A, p. 2.

3. Complaint ¶ 11.

4. Statement of Undisputed Facts ¶ 6, App. 13 ("With the exception of Little Bird of the Snow, [the members of the Roy family] all have Social Security Numbers"); ¶ 20, App. 14 ("The sole basis for these actions [the reduction of AFDC and medical assistance] was Mr. Roy's refusal to obtain a Social Security Number for Little Bird of the Snow").

5. App. to Juris. Statement 27a.

6. See App. 52-53 ("Mr. Roy has a Social Security number, as does his eldest daughter, Renee; but, as Mr. Roy will explain, the number was obtained before he became aware of what he perceives as a potential for evil of these numbers; and he will tell you that, once that number is provided, the evil is done, and continuing to do so has no further effect; but with respect to Little Bird of the Snow, he simply cannot do so").

7.

[Q.] Mr. Roy, could you explain why obtaining a Social Security Number for Little Bird of the Snow would be contrary to your religious beliefs as a native Abenaki?

A. Yes. Because we felt that this number would be used to rob her of her ability to have greater power in that this number is a unique number. It serves unique purposes. It's applied to her and only her; and being applied to her, that's what offends us, and we try to keep her person unique, and we try to keep her spirit unique, and we're scared that, if we were to use this number, she would lose control of that, and she would have no ability to protect herself from any evil that that number might be used against her.

Id. at 85.

8. Id. at 442-443.

9. See id. at 514-515 (argument of Deputy Attorney General of Pennsylvania); id. at 521 (argument of Attorney for United States Dept. of Justice); Record, Doc. No. 68, p. 2 (federal defendants' motion to dismiss).

10. Record, Doc. No. 65, pp. 2-3.

11. See Roy v. Cohen, 590 F.Supp. 600, 605 (MD Pa.1984) (finding of fact 33) ("Roy believes that the establishment of a social security number for Little Bird of the Snow, without more, has not ‘robbed her spirit,' but widespread use of the social security number by the federal or state governments in their computer systems would have that effect").

12. App. to Juris. Statement 24a.

13. Id. at 25a.

14. See, e.g., 7 CFR § 273.2(c)(1) (1986) ("The household shall be advised that it . . . may file an incomplete application form as long as the form contains the applicant's name and address and is signed by a responsible member of the household or the household's authorized representative").

15. See 7 CFR § 282.17(c)(3)(v) (1985) ("Households which require special assistance in order to apply for food stamps if that special assistance will not be available for completing the monthly reports. Special assistance shall include authorized representatives to complete monthly reports, home visits or telephone reporting in lieu of the report form. Such households may be comprised of blind, mentally or physically disabled persons, persons whose reading and writing skills are so limited that they cannot complete monthly reports on their own, or non-English speaking persons residing in project areas where the bilingual requirement of § 272.4(c) do not apply").

16. See 7 CFR § 273.2(e)(2) (1985) ("The office interview shall be waived if requested by any household which is unable to appoint an authorized representative and which has no household members able to come to the food stamp office because they are 65 years of age or older, or are mentally or physically handicapped"); ibid; ("The State agency shall waive the office interview on a case-by-case basis for any household which is unable to appoint an authorized representative and which has no household members able to come to the food stamp office because of transportation difficulties or similar hardships which the State agency determines warrants a waiver of the office interview. These hardship conditions include, but are not limited to: illness, care of a household member, prolonged severe weather, or work hours which preclude in-office interview").

Indeed, the regulations suggest that there may be a limited exception to the Social Security number requirement itself. See 7 CFR § 273.6 (b)(2) (1985) ("For those individuals required to provide an SSN who do not have one, the State agency shall act as follows. . . . If an individual applies through the State agency, the State agency shall complete the application for an SSN, Form SS-5"); 50 Fed.Reg. 10469 (1985) (proposed 7 CFR § 273.6(d)) ("In determining if good cause exists for failure to comply with the requirement to apply for or provide the State agency with an SSN, the State agency shall consider information from the household member, the Social Security Administration, and the State agency. . . . Good cause does not include delays due to illness, lack of transportation or temporary absences, because SSA makes provisions for mail-in applications in lieu of applying in person. . . . If the household member(s) applying for an SSN has been unable to obtain the documents required by SSA, the State agency caseworker should make every effort to assist the individual(s) in obtaining these documents").

17. In Thomas v. Review Bd. of Indiana Employment Security Div., 450 U.S. 707 (1981), and Sherbert v. Verner, 374 U.S. 398 (1963), the granting of a religious exemption was necessary to prevent the treatment of religious claims less favorably than other claims. See United States v. Lee, 455 U.S. 252, 264, n. 3 (1982) (STEVENS, J., concurring in judgment) (In Thomas and Sherbert, "the treatment of the religious objection to the new job requirements as though it were tantamount to a physical impairment that made it impossible for the employee to continue to work under changed circumstances could be viewed as a protection against unequal treatment, rather than a grant of favored treatment for the members of the religious sect").

18. See Rescue Army v. Municipal Court, 331 U.S. 549, 569 (1947) ("[C]onstitutional issues affecting legislation will not be determined . . . in broader terms than are required by the precise facts to which the ruling is to be applied"); Coffman v. Breeze Corp., 323 U.S. 316, 324-325 (1945) ("[T]he Court will not pass upon the constitutionality of legislation . . . until it is necessary to do so to preserve the rights of the parties"); Liverpool, New York and Philadelphia S.S. Co. v. Commissioners of Emigration, 113 U.S. 33, 39 (1885) (This Court "is bound by two rules, to which it has rigidly adhered, one, never to anticipate a question of constitutional law in advance of the necessity of deciding it; the other, never to formulate a rule of constitutional law broader than is required by the precise facts to which it is applied").

19. See Bender v. Williamsport Area School Dist., 475 U.S. 534, 542, n. 5 (1986) ("We have frequently recognized the importance of the facts and the fact-finding process in constitutional adjudication"); Minnick v. California Dept. of Corrections, 452 U.S. 105, 123 (1981) ("In this case, our analysis of the question whether the federal constitutional issues may be affected by additional proceedings in the state courts . . . is . . . affected by ambiguities in the record"); England v. Louisiana Board of Medical Examiners, 375 U.S. 411, 416 (1964) ("How the facts are found will often dictate the decision of federal claims"); Townsend v. Sain, 372 U.S. 293, 312 (1963) ("It is the typical, not the rare, case in which constitutional claims turn upon the resolution of contested factual issues"); Wiener v. United States, 357 U.S. 349, 352 (1958) ("The versatility of circumstances often mocks a natural desire for definitiveness"); Hammond v. Schappi Bus Line, 275 U.S. 164, 171-172 (1927) ("Before any of the questions suggested, which are both novel and of far-reaching importance, are passed upon by this Court, the facts essential to their decision should be definitely found by the lower courts upon adequate evidence").

20. Curiously, in explaining why they discourse at length on constitutional questions, THE CHIEF JUSTICE and JUSTICE O'CONNOR appear to rely on different factual assumptions. Compare ante at 702, n. 7 (BURGER, C.J.) (The "Government undoubtedly would be happy to ‘supply' the number for appellees -- i.e., fill the number in on their applications -- if this is what they wanted"), with post at 725 (O'CONNOR, J., concurring in part and dissenting in part) ("The Government still refuses to concede that it should now provide welfare benefits to Little Bird of the Snow, even though it now claims to possess Little Bird of the Snow's Social Security number"). It is, of course, an elementary principle of judicial restraint that uncertainty about the facts should prevent unnecessary constitutional disquisitions.
Supreme Court Toolbox
0

[Keith and stuff]

Chart says "planned." How do we know if it's been implemented in the 2009-2010-2011 areas?

It isn't talking about what we are talking about in this thread. The OP was confused. Clearly what he is talking about hasn't been done.

[Pauls' Revere]

similar to the drug screening passed which currently has an injunction in the state of Florida. Wouldn't surprize me one bit if it's true.

http://www.politifact.com/florida/promises/scott-o-meter/promise/600/require-drug-screening-for-welfare-recipients/

then there is this poll:
http://newsone.com/newsone-original/newsonestaff2/77-percent-of-black-people-support-drug-testing-for-welfare-recipients/

[Anti Federalist]

Joy.


http://www.wpafb.af.mil/shared/AFImages/2aa100715-F-9894C-003.jpg
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/AFRL/

Work there for a couple of years...they are werk'n on some neat stuff. :rolleyes:

[Pauls' Revere]

Note the esoteric measurements behind the number 144,000

144,000 .. is a Bruce Cathie light-speed number ... as in nautical miles per second .. the 'free-space' speed-of-light .. un-bundled from any gravity/atmosphere fields of relatively large rotating celestial bodies.

144,000 .. is also the Cubic Regular-Inches Volume of the 'outside' dimensions of "The Sarcophagus" within "The King's Chamber" inside The Great Pyramid of Giza.
(90 * 38.78509449 * 41.25296125) = 144,000.
Those are the 'outside dimensions' in REGULAR INCHES ..**NOT** in so-called "Pyramid Inches". A Regular Inch is a "British" Inch in Metrology .. our principal measuring system .. and main units thereof. Handed-down to "us" by ..???

The length of the floor in "The King's Chamber" ?
Answer: 412.5296125 regular inches .. which is ALSO ..
34.37746771 regular feet .. which is ALSO .. 20 Royal ("Egyptian") Cubits.

ALSO .. 34.37746771 is a decimal harmonic .. of .. 3437.746771 ..
the Polar Radius of Planet Earth .. in .. nautical miles.

In "other language" ..

656.56127 * 1.234567901 * (18*Pi) * Pi = 144,000.



Recall, please .. Polar Radius of Planet Earth = 3437.746771 naut. mi.

[3437.746771 / (Pi * 3.326178251)] = ('Face Two' Grid LONG) * 10 ..
= (32.89868136 W.CYDONIA * 10).
(Morton, 2001, Internet).

'Face Two' .. is @ Cydonia on Mars.
32.89868136 .. is in minutes of longitude West of Cydonia "ASM" prime
meridian.

32.89868136 = (Pi / 3) * Pi * 10.

Notice .. 32.89868136 * 656.56127 = 21,600.

Recall, please ... 656.56127 is GPV of 'Face One' @ Cydonia on Mars.
(Munck, 1992, "The Code", self-published).

21,600 .. is Polar Circumference of Planet Earth, in nautical miles,
and_also_in latitude arc-minutes.

21,600 is ALSO .. Grid LAT of Stonehenge .. near to where_most_of the
most-remarkable crop formations have appeared.

144,000/21,600 = 6.6666666666666666666666666666666666666666 ad infinitum

Wrap yer head around that.

Rev9


I bet they didn't watch alot of T.V.

[oyarde]

its REVELATION. NOT RevelationS. Its one giant revelation, "The Revelation of St. John the Divine". ARGH! Sorry.. personal pet peeve but if you're going to quote it, at least quote it correctly. How much info is there about St John the Devine ?

[oyarde]

Revelations 13:16-17
16And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Stop , please ;)

[oyarde]

So what have we got here?

Has it been confirmed that, in order to receive food stamp benefits, one must now have an implanted RFID VeriChip device?

Even if that is not what is happening right now, it's coming, in the next few years and not just for food stamps.

It'll be for everything, from starting your car to accessing bank records.

So, the question is: will you take one? I have given this some thought . Guess I will be a non participant ......

[Revolution9]

That is fascinating! Bookmarked! You are right, it's inescapable.

The gematria of the Greeks and Hebrews has been superseded by the English Cabala. This is the closest to "The Language of Birds/The Universal Language" and within its structure efficiently codifies and explains via induction the table of chemical elements, terms within cosmology, keys efficiently into both the KJV and The Celtic Bible, solfeggio music scales, amino acids, basically all of the modern and ancient concepts. I do not trust Hebrew Kabalah as the use of vowels is kept hidden meaning the actual meaning of the word can be altered by a priest or rabbi by simply altering the hidden vowel. The Greek Gematria is worthy of study but consider it is basically a dead language and inaccessible to most. English is based on subatomic angular momentum, angles of impact and it phonetics are found throughout nature and not just floating off the tongue of man. Each phonetic has a dynamic constant associated with it and various letter combinations which do not seem to make sense make absolute sense when the system, which we have been taught since children as far as the sigils and their phonetic is concerned, and the use of arithmetic to deduce answers from equations. Each word being an equation.

Rev9

[heavenlyboy34]

The gematria of the Greeks and Hebrews has been superseded by the English Cabala. This is the closest to "The Language of Birds/The Universal Language" and within its structure efficiently codifies and explains via induction the table of chemical elements, terms within cosmology, keys efficiently into both the KJV and The Celtic Bible, solfeggio music scales, amino acids, basically all of the modern and ancient concepts. I do not trust Hebrew Kabalah as the use of vowels is kept hidden meaning the actual meaning of the word can be altered by a priest or rabbi by simply altering the hidden vowel. The Greek Gematria is worthy of study but consider it is basically a dead language and inaccessible to most. English is based on subatomic angular momentum, angles of impact and it phonetics are found throughout nature and not just floating off the tongue of man. Each phonetic has a dynamic constant associated with it and various letter combinations which do not seem to make sense make absolute sense when the system, which we have been taught since children as far as the sigils and their phonetic is concerned, and the use of arithmetic to deduce answers from equations. Each word being an equation.

Rev9
I've never heard it described that way. Do you know of a linguist who explains this in detail? Thanks. :) HB.

[heavenlyboy34]

bump in hopes of an answer to my above query to Rev9. :o