Yes, Occupier's rail against capitalism is misguided, but not their fault

[GreenLP]

After all, they grew up hearing the misinformation from our politicians (mostly Republican ones) that our capitalistic system is a "free market" one, not knowing it's really a fascist kind. Can't really blame them for not wanting it. I sure don't.

[angelatc]

Mostly Republicans? This is a Republican site. Take the liberal "it's not really their fault" whine somewhere else.

[cindy25]

Mostly Republicans? This is a Republican site. Take the liberal "it's not really their fault" whine somewhere else.

this is a libertarian site; most here tolerate the Republican party as a tool to elect Ron Paul.

the big govt Republicans want crony capitalism, war, and the patriot act

[Working Poor]

this is a libertarian site; most here tolerate the Republican party as a tool to elect Ron Paul.

the big govt Republicans want crony capitalism, war, and the patriot act

I am not so sure this is a libertarian site...

[KAYA]

After all, they grew up hearing the misinformation from our politicians (mostly Republican ones) that our capitalistic system is a "free market" one, not knowing it's really a fascist kind. Can't really blame them for not wanting it. I sure don't.

Yeah, their Marixist professors, mainstream media and Hollywood had absolutely nothing to do with any of this misinformation. And of course, the misinformation comes mostly from the party of Ron Paul, Rand Paul, Peter Schiff, Jim DeMint, Jeff Landry, et al. The other party of Nancy Peloci, Harry Reid and Barack Obama hardly ever, (if ever) dole out misinformation.

[Wesker1982]

Mostly Republicans? This is a Republican site. Take the liberal "it's not really their fault" whine somewhere else.

Why so hostile?


After all, they grew up hearing the misinformation from our politicians (mostly Republican ones) that our capitalistic system is a "free market" one, not knowing it's really a fascist kind. Can't really blame them for not wanting it. I sure don't.

I pretty much agree. When you are heavily indoctrinated from youth to believe in myths, it can be hard to clearly see reality.

Although I don't blame them for being economically ignorant, I believe they do have a responsibility to understand what they are actually protesting about before they bother to protest.


It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a ‘dismal science.’ But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance. -Murray N. Rothbard

It is inconsistent to proclaim that you care so deeply about subject X, while knowing little about it. Even though they might have learned some fallacious economics in school that they believe to be true, I don't see how even this would be qualification even by their own standards to act like an expert. I mean, I don't act like Jesus just because I learned basic carpentry, lol.


I am not so sure this is a libertarian site...

Ron Paul forums. Ron Paul is most definitely a libertarian.

[AuH20]

I am not so sure this is a libertarian site...

At least half aren't what I would consider doctrinaire libertarians. Libertarian thought has some obvious vulnerabilities that you could run an M1-Abrams through with room to spare.

[LibertyEagle]

Ron Paul forums. Ron Paul is most definitely a libertarian.

He's also most definitely, a Republican, a conservative, a patriot, a statesman, and a whole lot of other things.

In my opinion, I think this site is for any and all liberty-lovers who want to work to get Ron Paul elected.

Freedom brings us together. Remember?

[pcosmar]

All of them have been born into a socialist society, Educated under a socialist system and been taught that the US is a Democracy.

Most of them (not all) see the present system as totally fucked.
They are opposed to BOTH parties as TOTALLY corrupt.

And they are right about that.

I am really wondering where all those in opposition to this movement were when it was growing, and the protests being planned?
It was posted here months ago, while still in the planing stage. Why did none speak with them?

[AuH20]

All of them have been born into a socialist society, Educated under a socialist system and been taught that the US is a Democracy.

Most of them (not all) see the present system as totally fucked.
They are opposed to BOTH parties as TOTALLY corrupt.

And they are right about that.

I am really wondering where all those in opposition to this movement were when it was growing, and the protests being planned?
It was posted here months ago, while still in the planing stage. Why did none speak with them?

I am hunkering down waiting for my three percent brothers to strike back against tyranny, success or failure. There is no educating folks who have no appreciation for private property, morals, or liberty. They think they know it all, when they know nothing. The species is much smarter than them. They are the middle children of history with no identity or substance.

[Wesker1982]

He's also most definitely, a Republican, a conservative, a patriot, a statesman, and a whole lot of other things.


I never implied that he wasn't any of these.

http://deathby1000papercuts.com/dbkpreport/2011/07/libertarian-top-50-sites-june-july-2011/

#6, pretty good!

[pcosmar]

I am hunkering down waiting for my three percent brothers to strike back against tyranny, success or failure.
3%,, Pretty small bunch.
"Strike Back",,, How exactly,, and against who, exactly.
3% have no effect on a vote,, are you suggesting "other means".



There is no educating folks who have no appreciation for private property, morals, or liberty.
Who are they.? Are you judging a whole movement on the actions of a few?

There were 10 000 marching and yet only a handful of protesters were violent. They have been widely criticized by the majority of protesters.

[AuH20]

3%,, Pretty small bunch.
"Strike Back",,, How exactly,, and against who, exactly.

I'm not at liberty to say, but we're certainly not wasting our time in the street battling with servants of the state. There are databases compiled already on particular individuals who let's just say "pull the strings." Do you think the CIA is only one with the plans?



Who are they.? Are you judging a whole movement on the actions of a few?

There were 10 000 marching and yet only a handful of protesters were violent. They have been widely criticized by the majority of protesters.

Products of the state conditioning program. The Rand Corporation, The Tavistock Institute. These people are lost. They love their servitude and are equivalent to inmates who want their porn privileges restored.

[NewRightLibertarian]

At least half aren't what I would consider doctrinaire libertarians. Libertarian thought has some obvious vulnerabilities that you could run an M1-Abrams through with room to spare.

Care to run the M1-Abrams through it? What are these vulnerabilities you speak of?

[pcosmar]

These people are lost. They love their servitude and are equivalent to inmates who want their porn privileges restored.
I could say the same for the bulk of the "Tea Party" that were only there because their warmonger lost the election.

Most had no clue about who runs this country.

[NewRightLibertarian]

I could say the same for the bulk of the "Tea Party" that were only there because their warmonger lost the election.

Most had no clue about who runs this country.

At least they were at a rally with a worthwhile message for fixing the country.

[pcosmar]

At least they were at a rally with a worthwhile message for fixing the country.

There is no fixing this country until the Federal Reserve and the Corrupt MoneyMasters are removed.
They OWN both parties and the entire Military Police State.

There is no hope of restoring the Constitution until they are removed.
There is NO Hope of "fixing" the economy.

That is what this is about.

[AuH20]

I could say the same for the bulk of the "Tea Party" that were only there because their warmonger lost the election.

Most had no clue about who runs this country.

The Tea Party is far more awake because they are historically aware for the most part and understand the concept of private property. Those are incredibly important fundamental building blocks, when analyzing the embryonic development of the movement. Individual empowerment derived from one's own attributes and will-power is only way the beast can be slayed.

[NewRightLibertarian]

There is no fixing this country until the Federal Reserve and the Corrupt MoneyMasters are removed.
They OWN both parties and the entire Military Police State.

There is no hope of restoring the Constitution until they are removed.
There is NO Hope of "fixing" the economy.

That is what this is about.

That may be what it's all about to you, but it isn't to the majority of those Occupy folks.

[AuH20]

There is no fixing this country until the Federal Reserve and the Corrupt MoneyMasters are removed.
They OWN both parties and the entire Military Police State.

There is no hope of restoring the Constitution until they are removed.
There is NO Hope of "fixing" the economy.

That is what this is about.

But first, their control grid must be smashed. That starts with defunding it. Tea Party has to take over leadership in the Republican party or we move on to the more dire alternative.

[LibertyEagle]

At least they were at a rally with a worthwhile message for fixing the country.

What message? I haven't noticed a consistent message besides they want CHANGE.

[NewRightLibertarian]

What message? I haven't noticed a consistent message besides they want CHANGE.

I was talking about the tea party, not Occupy

[pcosmar]

What message? I haven't noticed a consistent message besides they want CHANGE.

He was referring to the tea party crowds.

I was making a distinction between the Ron Paul Revolution that was the original Tea Party,,, and the Co-Opted "We hate Obama" Tea Party that swept the country. Most of those folks are just as clueless as the OWS crowd.

[PaulConventionWV]

So, what's your point? Should we be protesting with them and their socialist message because "it's not their fault"? If you know anything about marketing, then that is a mistake. Of course, liberals don't really care about marketing. "Profits before people", am I right?

Ignorance is no excuse.

[PaulConventionWV]

What message? I haven't noticed a consistent message besides they want CHANGE.

Yeah. Obama-style change.

[klamath]

All these debates about Ows prove is that a lot of people are going to go their own seperate ways once RP's campaign is over. The only thing that holds this movement together is Ronald Paul. There might be a small agreement on a general utopian state they would like the country to be in but diverge at insane angles on how to get there.

[PaulConventionWV]

There is no fixing this country until the Federal Reserve and the Corrupt MoneyMasters are removed.
They OWN both parties and the entire Military Police State.

There is no hope of restoring the Constitution until they are removed.
There is NO Hope of "fixing" the economy.

That is what this is about.

It's really easy to twist things the way you have done to give it the appearance you wish it to have. These are such broad generalizations they could cover pretty much 90% of the electorate. You want to get the "money masters" out of control, but you forgot that they still have their control grid in Washington, no matter how well business goes on Wall Street. It's the government that's the problem. "Money masters" is a very misleading term, but I think that was your goal.

You're trying to make broad strikes at both sides in order to increase the appeal of your supposed OWS message, but you can't have it both ways. The government is our focus for deregulation and defunding. Theirs is obviously less money for Wall St., which they mistakenly think is the source of the problem. You can't ignore the fact that this protest was started on Wall St. and not in Washington. It's pretty obvious what their intent was. It's not all the media giving these perceptions of OWS. It's on youtube all over the place.

You are fooling yourself so hard...

[dannno]

That may be what it's all about to you, but it isn't to the majority of those Occupy folks.

Where do you get your information from?

[pcosmar]

Yeah. Obama-style change.

Why do so many keep pushing the BULLSHIT.
They are as opposed to Obama as much as any Republican. (except by those attempting to Co-Opt)

They see Both Parties (correctly) as corrupt to the core.

http://ampedstatus.org/welcome-to-the-ows-99-movement-we-will-not-be-co-opted-working-group/

This is not an official statement from the #OWS 99% Movement. As a decentralized leaderless movement, in our opinion, there is no one group, organization, website or individual who can speak for the movement as a whole.

We, a working group of people currently occupying Liberty Park and many other locations throughout the US, are growing increasingly concerned about divide and conquer attempts being made to co-opt the movement. In the following message, we are issuing our first proposed statement. If you agree with the statement, please post it to your website and/or spread it throughout your social networks, both online and offline at occupations throughout the country. If you would like to read this statement at your local GA meetings and vote or edit it, feel free. If you disagree with the statement, please air your disagreements – this is what democracy looks like.

We appreciate, respect and encourage endorsements from individuals and organizations. We invite them. However, just because an individual or organization endorses our movement, does not mean that they in any way have a leadership role in deciding the future direction of this movement. We will not be co-opted by hierarchical organizations. No matter how wonderful their cause may be.

There are many people, organizations and media outlets within both the Democratic and Republican parties who are trying to label us as the Democrat’s version of the Tea Party. In this working groups opinion, not only is this incorrect, but in labeling us this way, you are, whether you realize it or not, undermining the very essence of this movement with your obsolete divide and conquer groupthink propaganda. Just as the mainstream media and both political parties aided and abetted the co-option of the Tea Party by the Republican Party, there is an attempt being made to do the same to us within the Democratic Party.

We the People, We the 99%, are not the pawns of either wing of the two-party oligarchy.

We emphatically reject the attempted leadership of any political party, organization or individual. If there are elected officials or organizations who endorse our movement, we welcome them.

However, they must do so knowing this: Your voice will be just as loud as any other voice. We are led by no one. You cannot co-opt We The People.

Respect Us.

[pcosmar]

It's really easy to twist things the way you have done to give it the appearance you wish it to have.

Back at ya,,
But I am a voice in this from some time back.(one voice of many)
Not a Parrot of the "Blaze" or Faux snooze.

http://www.fss34.com/uploads/5/3/5/5/5355854/1530017.jpg?434

[Revolution9]

Why so hostile?




Bootstrapping as usual. No need to ask next time.

Rev9

[heavenlyboy34]

He's also most definitely, a Republican, a conservative, a patriot, a statesman, and a whole lot of other things.

In my opinion, I think this site is for any and all liberty-lovers who want to work to get Ron Paul elected.

Freedom brings us together. Remember?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnPnAJeVuvw
I consider him a libertarian. But use whatever label you want. Individual liberty is all that matters in the end.

[NewRightLibertarian]

Where do you get your information from?

Watching the videos of these people in their own words. The Adam Kokesh and Mark Dice videos were the most telling.


I consider him a libertarian. But use whatever label you want. Individual liberty is all that matters in the end.

I prefer calling him a Constitutionalist for the sake of his getting elected in the Republican Party.


Why do so many keep pushing the BULLSHIT.
They are as opposed to Obama as much as any Republican. (except by those attempting to Co-Opt)

They see Both Parties (correctly) as corrupt to the core.

Just linking some well-meaning website doesn't mean that encompasses the whole movement. Jesse Jackson, Obama, MoveOn.org, etc. are all behind this movement because they know it is socialist in nature. You see how they shut down legitimate commerce at the ports the other day? Yeah, these guys really care about liberty and the free market :rolleyes:


All these debates about Ows prove is that a lot of people are going to go their own seperate ways once RP's campaign is over.

Where's your proof of this assertion? Maybe some anti-war leftists would bolt but there'd be no reason for any of the Ron Paul people to leave the Republican Party and Campaign for Liberty after the campaign ends.

[AGRP]

After all, they grew up hearing the misinformation from our politicians (mostly Republican ones) that our capitalistic system is a "free market" one, not knowing it's really a fascist kind. Can't really blame them for not wanting it. I sure don't.

How the Federal Reserve bought the economics profession: http://www.thenorthwestreport.com/priceless-how-the-federal-reserve-bought-the-economics-profession/

[PaulConventionWV]

Back at ya,,
But I am a voice in this from some time back.(one voice of many)
Not a Parrot of the "Blaze" or Faux snooze.


There was a study not long ago that ascertained that 49% of OWS supported Obama's reelection. There are more of them who don't support Obama but are still socialist and/or dislike Obama because he is not extreme enough. Factor it all in, you get a pretty sizeable majority that are socialists to some degree.

They must have done a damn good job at "co-opting" the movement because it's too damn late now.

[angelatc]

this is a libertarian site; most here tolerate the Republican party as a tool to elect Ron Paul.

the big govt Republicans want crony capitalism, war, and the patriot act

Ron Paul is a Republican, Ron Paul wants you to be a Republican, hence this is a Republican site. Most here tolerate the libertarians as a potential tool to take back the party when they grow up a little.

[angelatc]

There was a study not long ago that ascertained that 49% of OWS supported Obama's reelection. There are more of them who don't support Obama but are still socialist and/or dislike Obama because he is not extreme enough. Factor it all in, you get a pretty sizeable majority that are socialists to some degree.

They must have done a damn good job at "co-opting" the movement because it's too damn late now.

Most of them are socialists, and it wasn't coopted. This has been planned for a while, happening just in time for the elections. There's no other reason for them to have waited 4 years to get upset. People who think they can work with us will face their own version of Nacht der langen Messer soon enough.

[pcosmar]

There was a study not long ago

A "study".
You mean a poll.
Who did this poll? How many did they question to determine that less than half support Obama?

[PaulConventionWV]

Most of them are socialists, and it wasn't coopted. This has been planned for a while, happening just in time for the elections. There's no other reason for them to have waited 4 years to get upset. People who think they can work with us will face their own version of Nacht der langen Messer soon enough.

I know. I put co-opt in quotations to give him the benefit of the doubt.

[PaulConventionWV]

A "study".
You mean a poll.
Who did this poll? How many did they question to determine that less than half support Obama?

Take a look for yourself.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?324505-Approximately-48-of-Occupy-Wall-Street-would-re-elect-Obama&highlight=occupy+wall+street+protesters+Obama

[pcosmar]

Take a look for yourself.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?324505-Approximately-48-of-Occupy-Wall-Street-would-re-elect-Obama&highlight=occupy+wall+street+protesters+Obama

Yeah.
Like I guessed.

The pollster has a curious reading

question from the poll

a veteran Democratic Party pollster
of 198 people.
A poll,, NOT a "study".

About as credible as Frank Luntz.

[heavenlyboy34]

Ron Paul is a Republican, Ron Paul wants you to be a Republican, hence this is a Republican site.Most here tolerate the libertarians as a potential tool to take back the party when they grow up a little.
See post 32 in this thread. ;) And stop being collectivist and attacking libertarians, plz. RP would not approve.

[klamath]

Take a look for yourself.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?324505-Approximately-48-of-Occupy-Wall-Street-would-re-elect-Obama&highlight=occupy+wall+street+protesters+Obama
I always suspect polls but when the results match up with the retoric coming right out of the protests as gathered from all media sources including locally owned small town newpapers, the agenda is clear. Sure there are probably some kids just having a ball of a time in a social gathering that really have no political beliefs.

Plus another poll that pretty much backs up this poll. And it is NOT the "democratic" pollster.
Fordham U. poll. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?326756-Fordham-University-Poll-Occupy-Wall-Street-Crowd-favors-Ron-Paul-for-president-(kind-of)&highlight=occupy+wall+street+poll

[ryanmkeisling]

I still do not understand the divisiveness surrounding all of this. OWS is a direct strain of unrest born out of the Ron Paul revolution of the last election cycle; so is the Tea Party. Get the mSM propaganda machine involved and all that goes along with it, and you have people who want most of the same things arguing in circles over, I don't know what, personal ideology it seems. The fact that any of this exists right now means that it is required.

There is a lot of frustration right now in the good old USA, and this shit has only begun. Ideologically things may seem worlds apart but if you want to look at root cause it is, well, born of the same beast. It only gets worse from here....

As I say, wait till people start going to bed cold and hungry, many already are, it has only begun...

[PierzStyx]

Ron Paul forums. Ron Paul is most definitely a libertarian.

Ron Paul is definitely NOT a libertarian. He is a Constitutional Conservative, or a paleo-conservative if you will. He has stark differences with libertarians on such heavy issues as abortion, state government power, and immigration policy to name a few. He is the most libertarian of the candidates running in either of the two big parties, but he is not a true blue libertarian.

[Ekrub]

Ron Paul is definitely NOT a libertarian. He is a Constitutional Conservative, or a paleo-conservative if you will. He has stark differences with libertarians on such heavy issues as abortion, state government power, and immigration policy to name a few. He is the most libertarian of the candidates running in either of the two big parties, but he is not a true blue libertarian.

Debatable. GJ may be more libertarian. Just being picky :)

[angelatc]

See post 32 in this thread. ;) And stop being collectivist and attacking libertarians, plz. RP would not approve.

The attitude was in response to the thread starter who blamed the Republicans for making people think the government should hand out free stuff, or something. And you're right - Ron Paul is a much better person, with a much higher tolerance for idiocy, than I am.

[amy31416]

This is all crabbing over which protest group is less bad?

They both suck.

The Tea Parties turned into an "Obama is a socialist" rally that ended up backing jerkoffs like Rubio, who would be just as bad, or worse, than Obama and Bush. They don't have solid principles about anything, they don't know enough to have solid principles.

The OWS groups are a re-elect Obama group that's too stupid to see that Obama (and big government) is a huge part of the problem. They don't have solid principles about anything. They don't know enough to have solid principles.

[SkarnkaiLW]

Amazingly enough, libertarians disagree on most of the issues you mention. perhaps the Libertarian party has a platform that hashed those out, but anyone who follows the NAP is philosophically a libertarian. He is a Natural Rights libertarian, in the vein of Rothbard, as compared to a consequentialist/utilitarian libertarian like GJ.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuTpS5G0AC4&feature=channel_video_title
this video does a good job describing the various camps/groups that are libertarian or libertarian leaning.

[dannno]

I'm at an ows protest right now and they are having a 10 minute discussion on whether they should be using gender neutral pronouns to address others since some people may take offense to being identified by their perceived gender :D this is awesome

[low preference guy]

:D this is awesome

:confused:

[NewRightLibertarian]

I'm at an ows protest right now and they are having a 10 minute discussion on whether they should be using gender neutral pronouns to address others since some people may take offense to being identified by their perceived gender :D this is awesome

Yeah, sounds like they're really getting to the bottom of some critical issues there.

[Cutlerzzz]

Paul is definately a Libertarian, or perhaps a Classical Liberal. He is completely against the war on drugs, against any government involvement in marriage, pro free trade, anti-death penalty, and considers open borders ideal.

[Maverick]

Ron Paul is a Republican, Ron Paul wants you to be a Republican, hence this is a Republican site. Most here tolerate the libertarians as a potential tool to take back the party when they grow up a little.

I see someone's feeling a little self-righteous today. I'm here because I want to help get Ron Paul elected. I'm not here for the Republican Party. I'm here because I want to see Ron Paul - or any other candidate with a consistent voting record and a message of peace, prosperity, and support for individual liberty - get elected to help scale back the overburdening monstrosity we call the federal government. I don't give a damn if Ron Paul belongs to the Republican party, the Democratic party, the Green party, Constitutionalist party, or Libertarian party. The only reason I'm here is the message, not the party affiliation.

If I woke up tomorrow and the whole political party system disappeared, I don't think it would make one difference to me. Actually, I think I'd be much happier, knowing that a stupid and ineffectual "our team" / "their team" system had been dismantled, and the brainwashed populace might actually be able to focus on individual candidate's actual positions for once.

[amy31416]

:confused:

Dannno's trying to get laid...

[Wesker1982]

Ron Paul is definitely NOT a libertarian.

You can't be serious.


He has stark differences with libertarians on such heavy issues as abortion, state government power, and immigration policy to name a few.

Views on abortion and immigration vary between libertarians. I am not sure what you think his difference is on state's rights.

He explicitly advocates the non-aggression principle, which is really all that you need to be a libertarian.

[Vessol]

I feel like those denying Ron Paul being a libertarian are trying to completely erase his past and present.

His mentors and inspirations were libertarians(particularly Rothbard, Mr. Libertarian himself), his close friends and advisers are libertarians (Rockwell and Woods), he ran as a libertarian before, and has long called himself a libertarian constitutionalist.

I can understand when you guys deny that RP is an ancap, I don't think he is either, but if you're trying to actually pass off that Ron Paul is not a libertarian? That's is ignoring a massive amount of history and statements by the man himself.

[NewRightLibertarian]

I can understand when you guys deny that RP is an ancap, I don't think he is either, but if you're trying to actually pass off that Ron Paul is not a libertarian? That's is ignoring a massive amount of history and statements by the man himself.

I would say he's definitely a libertarian (since he always says he is) and probably anarcho-capitalist as well. He pushes Austrian economics, after all.

[Vessol]

I would say he's definitely a libertarian (since he always says he is) and probably anarcho-capitalist as well. He pushes Austrian economics, after all.

Eh. I think that Ron Paul would be comfortable and would be absolutely fine with an ancap society, but I don't think that he directly is an ancap. This is coming from myself, an ancap, of course.

[Vessol]

Oh and to the OP.

Ignorance isn't an excuse, especially in the age of so much information that we have now. These people can find so many resources and other things, they have no excuse to be ignorant of economics.

[heavenlyboy34]

I feel like those denying Ron Paul being a libertarian are trying to completely erase his past and present.

His mentors and inspirations were libertarians(particularly Rothbard, Mr. Libertarian himself), his close friends and advisers are libertarians (Rockwell and Woods), he ran as a libertarian before, and has long called himself a libertarian constitutionalist.

I can understand when you guys deny that RP is an ancap, I don't think he is either, but if you're trying to actually pass off that Ron Paul is not a libertarian? That's is ignoring a massive amount of history and statements by the man himself.

I would say he's definitely a libertarian (since he always says he is)
qft

[RonPaulFanInGA]

Yes, Occupier's rail against capitalism is misguided, but not their fault

Nope, nothing is their fault.

Took a student loan and went into massive debt getting a worthless degree? Not their fault.
Railing against capitalism? Not their fault.
Living on welfare? Not their fault.
Demanding more free sh** and a 'bailout' for their bad personal decisions? Not their fault.

Nothing is their fault. It's all the banks/corporations/parents/government/CEOs. :rolleyes:

[AuH20]

Nope, nothing is their fault.

Took a student loan and went into massive debt getting a worthless degree? Not their fault.
Railing against capitalism? Not their fault.
Living on welfare? Not their fault.
Demanding more free sh** and a 'bailout' for their bad personal decisions? Not their fault.

Nothing is their fault. It's all the banks/corporations/parents/government/CEOs. :rolleyes:

Parasites complaining about parasites. What a country, eh?

[PaulConventionWV]

Yeah.
Like I guessed.



of 198 people.
A poll,, NOT a "study".

About as credible as Frank Luntz.

Whatever, same thing. You can disregard polls, but you have no reason to believe otherwise when literally everything suggests those are accurate numbers. The youtube videos, the media, the local people on the ground, all of it suggests what these polls are saying. You are just making up stuff to justify your suspicion that they might actually like the liberty message. You're fooling yourself in the face of all evidence to the contrary. It's pretty obvious you do this on a number of issues where you think you are so right that nobody can possibly challenge your rhetoric. All I have to say is that you are uninformed and somewhat wilfully ignorant in this case. It's a shame.

[PaulConventionWV]

I'm at an ows protest right now and they are having a 10 minute discussion on whether they should be using gender neutral pronouns to address others since some people may take offense to being identified by their perceived gender :D this is awesome

LOL liberals are funny. This is only more reason to believe this is not related to the liberty movement.

[Cutlerzzz]

Oh and to the OP.

Ignorance isn't an excuse, especially in the age of so much information that we have now. These people can find so many resources and other things, they have no excuse to be ignorant of economics.There is nothing wrong with being ignorant of economics. But being ignorant of economics and voting is another matter.

[low preference guy]

There is nothing wrong with being ignorant of economics. But being ignorant of economics and voting is another matter.

Being ignorant of economics and preaching falsehoods is bad enough even without voting.

[JohnGalt1225]

I think OWS has a few legitimate grievances and has articulated a few legitimate problems in America. That said, most of the "solutions" I here coming out of the protests are more government and more regulation.