"And there's no way - no way - I'll vote for Romney." - Read on, this may be THE issue.

[Anti Federalist]

This might be what it takes to shift Romney out of NH frontrunner status.

For those who don't know, "Northern Pass" is a high voltage electric transmission line, attempting to be built by Hydro Quebec, NSTAR and Northeast Utilities, across NH's north country.

It is bitterly opposed by many, including myself, as yet another "taking" by a private, foreign company, of a citizen's private property, and may in fact be in violation of the NH state constitution, an amendment that I helped, in my own small way, get passed in the wake of the atrocious Kelo v. New London SCOTUS decision.


[Art.] 12-a. [Power to Take Property Limited.] No part of a person's property shall be taken by eminent domain and transferred, directly or indirectly, to another person if the taking is for the purpose of private development or other private use of the property.

November 7, 2006


www.livefreeorfry.com
http://burynorthernpass.blogspot.com/


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4y8EtA4tiPc&feature=related


Romney takes a Northern Pass

http://www.concordmonitor.com/article/289583/romney-takes-northern-pass?SESSf434f4aaa160d36b84a549d160d04068=gnews


By Ben Leubsdorf / Monitor staff
November 2, 2011


When Mitt Romney has breakfast this morning at a $500-a-person fundraiser in the ballroom of the Grand Hyatt hotel in Manhattan, he'll count Greg Butler among the event's 88 co-chairs.

Butler co-chaired a similar New York fundraiser in September. He donated money to Romney's 2008 presidential campaign and donated $2,500 to the former Massachusetts governor in May.

He's also senior vice president and general counsel for the Northern Pass project, a plan to import hydroelectric energy from Canada along 180 miles of new transmission lines in New Hampshire.

That could cause some trouble for Romney among Northern Pass opponents, who have been vocal in the North Country and elsewhere in the state about the project and the possibility of land being taken by eminent domain for it.

"You're talking about 180 miles of irate voters that will register their disconnect by casting negative votes

against candidates like Romney and positive votes for anybody that comes out in opposition to the Northern Pass," said Joe Drinon, a retired financial adviser and anti-Northern Pass activist from Chichester.

Drinon, a registered Republican, said Romney's tie to a Northern Pass official "is just too close for me. And I was going to vote for Romney. I think it's fair to say my wife was considering it seriously. And there's no way - no way - I'll vote for Romney. I don't care if they run the dogcatcher against him. I'll vote for the dogcatcher."

A copy of the fundraiser invitation was provided by the Center for American Progress, a liberal think tank. Butler's role was first reported by Monitor alum Shira Schoenberg for The Boston Globe.

A message seeking comment from Butler was left with a Northern Pass spokesman.

For the record, Romney hasn't come out in support of Northern Pass. But he hasn't exactly come out against it, either.

"Governor Romney hasn't seen the specifics of a final Northern Pass proposal, but he strongly supports local control and opposes any attempt to use eminent domain to take private property for the purposes of a private enterprise," spokesman Ryan Williams wrote in an email.

That's about what Romney said in a June 13 debate at St. Anselm College, where he said that "if land is going to be taken for purposes of a private enterprise, that's the wrong way to go."

That doesn't satisfy Drinon.

"That's not enough," he said. "That's political speak for, 'I don't want to take a stand.' "

And Romney wasn't shy this summer about jumping into another hot-button state issue, backing efforts to pass a right-to-work law over Gov. John Lynch's veto.

Mary Lee, a Northern Pass opponent from Northfield, said she thinks the project has made energy policy in general a more pressing issue for voters in the state. And she doesn't like that Romney has fundraising ties to a project official.

But, she said, she wasn't going to vote for him, anyway.

Independent political analyst Dean Spiliotes said, while there are single-issue voters at both the national and state levels, he thinks Northern Pass probably won't drive the primary election, which so far has been dominated by economic issues.

And unlike right-to-work, he said, there may not be much incentive for Romney to take a strong stand.

"I think there are plenty of opportunities for candidates to sidestep these kind of issues, and I think the payoff is pretty ambiguous for them," Spiliotes said, adding, "It would only be an issue if you get a sense that these single-issue voters, that they can harness the opposition to the project in a way that makes things uncomfortable for them."

Hat Tip to D.A.S for the following:

http://i.imgur.com/R2tFG.jpg

[harikaried]

http://www.unionleader.com/article/20111012/NEWS0605/710139973


“I wouldn’t sign it. I wouldn’t give the permit,” he said. Private property rights are “really basic to solving our problems.” He said in his home state of Texas, where drilling for oil is the norm, there are strict property rights’ laws that he supports.

The Northern Pass is a proposed $1.1 billion hydroelectric transmission project that would bring 1,200 megawatts of power to New England. The project is being proposed by Northeast Utilities, the parent company of Public Service of New Hampshire and NSTAR and would be paid for and the electricity provided by Hydro-Quebec. The project would use 140 miles of existing PSNH right of way to build new transmission towers. It also needs to secure 40 miles of new right of way in northern New Hampshire to connect with Canada. To cross the international border requires a Presidential permit.

Paul said he does not support the President having that sort of power, and he said it should be decided at the state level and have the support of the state. While Northern Pass officials have said recently they have no plans to seek eminent domain and are working to get landowner consent to build the entire line, at public hearings on the issues earlier this year, representatives said that they might resort to petitioning for eminent domain to complete the project.

Paul said he felt government leaders “were a little loose” when it came to allowing eminent domain or the right to take private land for a public good, such as a highway or a sewer system.

“But it should never be used for a private project,” he said.

Northern Pass would be a for-profit project that has been deemed by the Independent System Operator of New England as not being necessary for electric system reliability. Rather it would be additional power that could help reduce rates in the region. Most of the power would likely be sold in Massachusetts and Connecticut.

“If they don’t want to sell their land, they shouldn’t have to,” Paul said as he signed the Thomson family document

[eleganz]

Time to hit him where it hurts.

Romney, the Northern Ass for the Northern Pass...

[Paulistinian]

Nice... how do we push that Paul response to Northern Pass to NH residents?

[bluesc]

Nice find, AF. +rep

This will hurt Romney. They are just looking for (yet another) reason not to trust him. This one is close to home. Ron should hit hard.

[sailingaway]

Perry's record pushing the Texas Toll Road should be a parallel as well.

[RDM]

Nice... how do we push that Paul response to Northern Pass to NH residents?

Letters to the editor of every newspaper in NH BOMB!!!! ( Make sure your letter are unique and don't all of you send the same letter)

I have a post here on the forum that links to every newspaper in America. Follow the link for NH and start sending letters to the editor off all the newspapers.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?326929-Listing-of-Every-Newspaper-College-Newspaper-and-State-Magazine-in-America

[sailingaway]

Nice... how do we push that Paul response to Northern Pass to NH residents?

Post card mailers? Hang tags? Hand outs? Cards under windshield wipers?

[Anti Federalist]

Paul said he felt government leaders “were a little loose” when it came to allowing eminent domain or the right to take private land for a public good, such as a highway or a sewer system.

“But it should never be used for a private project,” he said.

Attention official campaign!!

This needs to be put into a NH ad campaign asap!

[Anti Federalist]

Post card mailers? Hang tags? Hand outs? Cards under windshield wipers?

That's what I'm going to start doing.

[Anti Federalist]

Perry's record pushing the Texas Toll Road should be a parallel as well.

Exactly and good point!

Hammer 'em both on this.

[gerryb]

Nice... how do we push that Paul response to Northern Pass to NH residents?

Letters to the editor and OpEd's.

[bunklocoempire]

Great work Ahab.

This is the arrow in my quiver for the "I like Paul, but if he doesn't win I'll have to hold my nose and vote Romney" treasonous pukes. Let those cowardly bastards go around in public touting their lesser of two evils reasoning.

Thank you.

///



Bunkloco

[Anti Federalist]

Bumping this

[Aratus]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JamesButabi]

I can't even tell you how many stop the northern pass signs I saw during my trips through NH this year. They were more abundant than political signs by far.

I can even remember the website they were promoting.
www.livefreeorfry.com

[PastaRocket848]

if this could bring romney back to earth in NH it could go a long way towards making an early-state strategy more doable.

[roversaurus]

Nice... how do we push that Paul response to Northern Pass to NH residents?

Love that one!

Snatch it and make it Ron Paul's before another campaign does!

[phill4paul]

I see no reason not to run with this one. What better way to expose a big government/big business shill than on a matter of local interest vs. big government/ big business

[69360]

I like it, I think it will work great against longtime NH residents and we should go with it. But what about all the recent arrivals from Mass that are probably pumping Romney's polling? Wonder how they feel about it?

[Tod]

I just sent Joe Drinon a friend request on Facebook. Couldn't just send him a message, unfortunately (he has it turned off, presumably to avoid spammers)

If he responds, I'll send him a link to the RP article...

[Lesgov]

Hey there neighbor, This is a great topic for northern NH. NH already produces more electricity than it uses. All this power is going south, they just want our land!

[Anti Federalist]

Hey there neighbor, This is a great topic for northern NH. NH already produces more electricity than it uses. All this power is going south, they just want our land!

Glad to see you weighed in on this one!

[HOLLYWOOD]

Aren't they considered "Public Utilities"?

Doesn't this fall under Safety and Public general welfare of the people with the daily use of Utility power?

I don't support anyone's land, property, etc, taken away, but the millions spent retaining 'Lawyer-Up" corporations and socialist government entities always appear to find the loopholes, payoffs, and support to push their agenda public or private.

~40% of New Hampshire republican voters appear to support the main socialist amongst the 2012 candidates and a horrific record at supporting fascists/plutocrats.

Snapshot @ 2008

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a361/mzcmdr/New_Hampshire_GOP_Results_2008.png

[Tod]

Mr. Drinon accepted my friend request and has seen the links...

Any thoughts on where to go from here?

[Anti Federalist]

Mr. Drinon accepted my friend request and has seen the links...

Any thoughts on where to go from here?

If you want someone at the presidential level that is on the record as opposing eminent domain takings for Northern Pass, vote Ron Paul.

And if you think no politician can be trusted, just look at his record.

[beardedlinen]

Hrm. Anyone know if Paul has been talking about Northern Pass during his NH visits? An ad tailored to angry NH primary-goers would be nice. Anyway to contact the campaign about making this a larger issue? I assume they're waiting for the right time to brandish it.

[osan]

[Art.] 12-a. [Power to Take Property Limited.] No part of a person's property shall be taken by eminent domain and transferred, directly or indirectly, to another person if the taking is for the purpose of private development or other private use of the property.

November 7, 2006

Poorly worded and readily defeated, IMO. It can be strongly argued that the ED seizures are NOT ultimately for private use, but for PUBLIC use to be administered by a privately held utility provider. Not saying it it legitimate, but where large sums are involved nearly anything is possible. Defense against such corruption and avarice requires better words. Even then... :(

[KCIndy]

Nice... how do we push that Paul response to Northern Pass to NH residents?

Full page ad in a few local newspapers?

[Dianne]

I didn't even know a Romney vote was possible in this forum. We are all blood brothers... no one gets my vote except Ron Paul.. If the fricken GOP wants to lose, so be it for their treatment of the only candidate worth going to the polls for... Ron Paul.

The GOP maggots will never learn, until we prove it to them; that we are election busters... and no Federal Reserve owned candidates are going to become President on the GOP side.

[beardedlinen]

I didn't even know a Romney vote was possible in this forum. We are all blood brothers... no one gets my vote except Ron Paul.. If the fricken GOP wants to lose, so be it for their treatment of the only candidate worth going to the polls for... Ron Paul.

The GOP maggots will never learn, until we prove it to them; that we are election busters... and no Federal Reserve owned candidates are going to become President on the GOP side.

AntiFederalist was quoting someone in that article. He wasn't speaking for himself or anyone else on the forum.

[GunnyFreedom]

Post card mailers? Hang tags? Hand outs? Cards under windshield wipers?

My experience has been that hanging bags on doorknobs is ridiculously effective. Mind you, we included stuff like...the Constitution...but I imagine a doorknob hangtag would be very effective here.

[Anti Federalist]

My experience has been that hanging bags on doorknobs is ridiculously effective. Mind you, we included stuff like...the Constitution...but I imagine a doorknob hangtag would be very effective here.

I likee.

While I hate the idea of banging on people's doors to pester them uninvited, a lit drop in a "permitted" place is a great idea, I think.

[eduardo89]

AF, I'm wondering why you're so against this. Is it the eminent domain? Is it because they're getting the electricity from Canada? Are you against it because of the way the towers will affect the landscape?

Would you be against it if they bought the land from the owners?
What's wrong with it being a Canadian company? (I read it'll be owned by Northeast Utilities, not Hydro Quebec)

[Anti Federalist]

AF, I'm wondering why you're so against this. Is it the eminent domain? Is it because they're getting the electricity from Canada? Are you against it because of the way the towers will affect the landscape?

Would you be against it if they bought the land from the owners?
What's wrong with it being a Canadian company? (I read it'll be owned by Northeast Utilities, not Hydro Quebec)

It's my understanding that the project is a three way joint venture between Hydro Quebec, NSTAR and Northeast Utilities.

My first and foremost objection is the inevitable eminent domain takings to benefit a private company.

My second objection is destruction of pristine landscape, for power that is not for us in NH, but heading south into Massachusetts and Connecticut.

My third objection is the ridiculous idea that while we are blowing up and destroying hydro power dams all across the Northeast, we'll buy hydro power from Canada instead. Just another example of tearing apart our infrastructure and manufacturing, just to send it to another country. Canada is a heavily regulated, relatively socialist nation, with a history of environmental progressiveness. What the flying fuck is going on that makes it cheaper to generate electricity hundreds of miles away in another country instead while destroying capacity here?

[eduardo89]

It's my understanding that the project is a three way joint venture between Hydro Quebec, NSTAR and Northeast Utilities.

My first and foremost objection is the inevitable eminent domain takings to benefit a private company.

My second objection is destruction of pristine landscape, for power that is not for us in NH, but heading south into Massachusetts and Connecticut.

My third objection is the ridiculous idea that while we are blowing up and destroying hydro power dams all across the Northeast, we'll buy hydro power from Canada instead. Just another example of tearing apart our infrastructure and manufacturing, just to send it to another country. Canada is a heavily regulated, relatively socialist nation, with a history of environmental progressiveness. What the flying fuck is going on that makes it cheaper to generate electricity hundreds of miles away in another country instead while destroying capacity here?

Ok I completely agree with the eminent domain part of the argument and perhaps a bit on the landscape argument.

The objection about the electricity coming from Canada I don't really understand. If it can be produced cheaper there, which obviously it can be, isn't that good for consumers in the US? Also, this energy is most likely 100% renewable and clean, as over 93% of Hydro Quebec's power is from hydroelectric plants. I think the fact that Quebec has such huge hydro projects is what makes it so cheap. It was the same in British Columbia where I used to live. We had extremely cheap electricity and even exported quite a bit to Washington State, Oregon and all the way down to California.

It's unfortunate that capacity is being lost in the US, but many times it's more expensive to rebuild aging infrastructure than to import, as is the case here I presume.




Edit: I think a lot of the power will be coming from this series of plants: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Bay_Project They have a combined capacity of 16,000 megawatts with more capacity being added.

[specsaregood]

My second objection is destruction of pristine landscape, for power that is not for us in NH, but heading south into Massachusetts and Connecticut.


Is this because those MA and CT folk are too good to build windmill farms off their own coast?

Speaking of destruction, the first thought that occurred to me is that if this is that unpopular, i cant see it being built without quite a few domestic "mishaps" by irate NH'ers.

[eduardo89]

Is this because those MA and CT folk are too good to build windmill farms off their own coast?



Or because wind farms aren't as economical as large hydro projects.


For example this wind farm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Gabbard_wind_farm) off the coast of England cost over $2 billion and has theoretical capacity of 500MW, which is probably never reached. This project will bring in 1,200 MW, so the cost would probably be close to $4 billion to build as a windfarm. Bringing the electricity from Canada has an estimated project cost of $1.1 billion.

[specsaregood]

Or because wind farms aren't as economical as large hydro projects.

Maybe true if you have hydro access/facilities. But we are talking about having to seize or buy a hundred + miles of other people's property, that can't be cheap. Plus, you don't own the facilities when you are done.

[eduardo89]

Maybe true if you have hydro access/facilities. But we are talking about having to seize or buy a hundred + miles of other people's property, that can't be cheap. Plus, you don't own the facilities when you are done.

They already have 140 miles, they're trying to secure the remaining 40. I think the $1.1 billion already includes land acquisition. I'm sure it'll be more if they're forced to buy the land in NH (as they should have to), but in the end it'll still probably be cheaper in the long run as opposed to building a wind farm.

[specsaregood]

but in the end it'll still probably be cheaper in the long run as opposed to building a wind farm.
such short term thinking is why the US is screwed. Every cent the dollar goes down in value is a cent in price that foreign electric is going to go up.

[eduardo89]

such short term thinking is why the US is screwed. Every cent the dollar goes down in value is a cent in price that foreign electric is going to go up.

At least Canada is close enough for a quick invasion. And we're mostly disarmed ;)

[Bruno]

Nice... how do we push that Paul response to Northern Pass to NH residents?

Give Romney a Northern Pass. Support Ron Paul for President!

[Anti Federalist]

It's unfortunate that capacity is being lost in the US, but many times it's more expensive to rebuild aging infrastructure than to import, as is the case here I presume.

If making electricity, (or any other product as I've often argued) is such a losing proposition, why is every country in the world scrambling to do it and sell that value added merchandise to us?

Wouldn't they all be trying to import it from somewhere else also?

And why would Canadians want to despoil their environment just to sell to us arrogant Yanks anyways?

Meanwhile, we just go around blowing our shit up.




The owners of a dam in Washington’s South Cascades used 700 pounds of TNT to breach the 99-year-old structure Wednesday.

PacifiCorp decided to blow up the hydroelectric dam after learning it could cost as much $100 million to build the fish passage structures required to relicense it. At 125 feet, it’s the second largest dam ever to be demolished in the U.S.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/10/26/watch-explosion-breaches-dam-in-washington/

[Anti Federalist]

such short term thinking is why the US is screwed. Every cent the dollar goes down in value is a cent in price that foreign electric is going to go up.

And oil, and petro chemicals and Wal Marx junk and so on...

[Anti Federalist]

At least Canada is close enough for a quick invasion. And we're mostly disarmed ;)

I wouldn't even joke like that, not with the bunch of psychos running the show over here.

[specsaregood]

The owners of a dam in Washington’s South Cascades used 700 pounds of TNT to breach the 99-year-old structure Wednesday.

PacifiCorp decided to blow up the hydroelectric dam after learning it could cost as much $100 million to build the fish passage structures required to relicense it. At 125 feet, it’s the second largest dam ever to be demolished in the U.S.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/10/26/watch-explosion-breaches-dam-in-washington/
And yet it didnt have those fish passages for the past 99 years and the world got by? The US is simply suicidal.

[eduardo89]

I wouldn't even joke like that, not with the bunch of psychos running the show over here.

Honestly, I'd gladly be annexed into the US.

[Anti Federalist]

///

[D.A.S.]

I agree that we need to use any exploit we could get in New Hampshire, especially on local issues, so I put together a simple ad template:

http://i.imgur.com/R2tFG.jpg

[D.A.S.]

Bump.

[GunnyFreedom]

I agree that we need to use any exploit we could get in New Hampshire, especially on local issues, so I put together a simple ad template:

http://i.imgur.com/R2tFG.jpg

+rep

[D.A.S.]

I agree that we need to use any exploit we could get in New Hampshire, especially on local issues, so I put together a simple ad template:

http://i.imgur.com/R2tFG.jpg


I think we definitely need some AD projects in New Hampshire. We're doing some in Iowa, but New Hampshire is no less important, really.

So perhaps if someone wants to use my ad design as a springboard and design something better, we could maybe organize such an ad project in New Hampshire! That would be very good for us there.

[Anti Federalist]

///

[D.A.S.]

///

You're in NH, right? What do you think we could organize in terms of a pro-Paul ad campaign there, using an issue like Northern Pass to rally people around it? Could we maybe organize an ad drive in some local papers for communities directly affected by Northern Pass where we could pick up some disenchanted voters?

[Carole]

This is like a bombshell issue that should destroy Romney in New Hampshire if the majority of the people are against it.

[Anti Federalist]

You're in NH, right? What do you think we could organize in terms of a pro-Paul ad campaign there, using an issue like Northern Pass to rally people around it? Could we maybe organize an ad drive in some local papers for communities directly affected by Northern Pass where we could pick up some disenchanted voters?

That's what I had in mind.

Or a direct mailer.

Right now I've printed the flyer template you made and pass it out wherever I can.

[D.A.S.]

That's what I had in mind.

Or a direct mailer.

Right now I've printed the flyer template you made and pass it out wherever I can.

What size did it print to?

I didn't know you're happy enough with the poster to print it - so I just made a full-page PDF file out of this template. If you want the PDF file, PM me with your email, and I will send it to you. I don't think I can post the PDF to the forum.

[Anti Federalist]

What size did it print to?

I didn't know you're happy enough with the poster to print it - so I just made a full-page PDF file out of this template. If you want the PDF file, PM me with your email, and I will send it to you. I don't think I can post the PDF to the forum.

No it's great, I saved it, printed to fit a full page, and it came out fine.

[D.A.S.]

No it's great, I saved it, printed to fit a full page, and it came out fine.

Let us know what sort of reactions you get from people...

[Anti Federalist]

///

[Eric21ND]

Excellent work. would love to see that ad in the local Newspapers, especially in areas that McCain won.

[lucent]

Should try to get it in newspapers.

[Join The Paul Side]

Why not press the campaign to do a TV ad on this in NH? Or maybe a RevPac ad? A quick 30 second ad to go with some newspaper ads and door hangings sounds like an effective strategy. If we can get Ron to own this issue it may just win him the state. :)

[69360]

Maybe after Iowa if Ron does well there, the campaign could do something with this. Right now Romney is killing everyone in the polls and is probably going to win NH. The campaign money wouldn't be spent wisely there right now. But the grassroots doing this is a great idea.

[donnay]

Maybe after Iowa if Ron does well there, the campaign could do something with this. Right now Romney is killing everyone in the polls and is probably going to win NH. The campaign money wouldn't be spent wisely there right now. But the grassroots doing this is a great idea.

The whole idea with "grassroots" is don't wait on headquarters for orders, get out and do it now! This issue needs to be driven home to the people of New Hampshire, but it is a message that needs to be sent out across the country. If Romney pushes this in New Hampshire (which is his vacation state), what is he doing in his (now) home state of California?

[Carole]

The whole idea with "grassroots" is don't wait on headquarters for orders, get out and do it now! This issue needs to be driven home to the people of New Hampshire, but it is a message that needs to be sent out across the country. If Romney pushes this in New Hampshire (which is his vacation state), what is he doing in his (now) home state of California?

Then why does not the grassroots collect some money to put forth ads on radio and television for this? Thirty second spot should do it.

Anyone with some expertise ready to step up and spearhead this?

[KCIndy]

AF, any chance you (or anyone in NH) could scope out the cost of running this design as an ad in local newspapers in areas most affected by the government land grab?

For the sake of appearance, I'm guessing it would be best if the ads are placed by a NH resident, but I'm certainly willing to chip in as much as I can to get these things in the papers.

[donnay]

Then why does not the grassroots collect some money to put forth ads on radio and television for this? Thirty second spot should do it.

Anyone with some expertise ready to step up and spearhead this?

I am game... just trying to figure out how we can do this!

[KCIndy]

I am game... just trying to figure out how we can do this!


I would suggest a flurry of newspaper ads, especially in the areas most affected.

[ryanmkeisling]

Time to hit him where it hurts.

Romney, the Northern Ass for the Northern Pass...

Yes, this^^

[69360]

Mass ass for Northern Pass has a nice Rhyme to it.

[Anti Federalist]

AF, any chance you (or anyone in NH) could scope out the cost of running this design as an ad in local newspapers in areas most affected by the government land grab?

For the sake of appearance, I'm guessing it would be best if the ads are placed by a NH resident, but I'm certainly willing to chip in as much as I can to get these things in the papers.

I'm looking into it.

[Lord Xar]

Maybe REVPAC can create the AD and we can do a "RevPac MoneyBomb" to get this played in NH?

[Join The Paul Side]

Bump for freedom. :D

[Tod]

I shared it on my facebook page, with a link to a higher resolution copy. Mr. Drinon (quoted in the article) will know about it. The other day he was asking a couple of questions about Paul's positions. Hopefully I answered them well.

[69360]

Maybe REVPAC can create the AD and we can do a "RevPac MoneyBomb" to get this played in NH?

That seems like a good idea. I like their ads so far. A cartoon mittens like in the plastic man ad taking their land might work.

[Anti Federalist]

///

[ForLibertyFight]

bump

[D.A.S.]

Bump.

[JamesButabi]

Id be willing to donate for this endeavor. Especially fond of RevPac running with this on TV.

[sunny]

What counties does this pass through?

[1stAmendguy]

What counties does this pass through?

http://www.northernpass.us/communities

Bethlehem, Sugar Hill, Lincoln, Easton, Woodstock, Thornton, Campton, Holderness, Ashland, Bridgewater, New Hampton, Bristol, Hill

[kazmlsj]

That poster is EPIC!

I love the GOOGLE suggestions at the bottom, smart, smart, smart.

[Anti Federalist]

Traffic bump

[Anti Federalist]

What counties does this pass through?

Coos.

Prounounced: koh ahz

[muzzled dogg]

We need this as a handout for nh

Can anyone put into PDF? Maybe a few per page?

Thanks

[VoluntaryAmerican]

Attention official campaign!!

This needs to be put into a NH ad campaign asap!

Yeah and it might be wise to email/contact Revpac about this: They can certainly sling more mud than the official campaign.

[Anti Federalist]

///

[parocks]

that's not where Romney gets his votes

[parocks]

Coös occupies the largest area of any New Hampshire county, but has the smallest population: 33,055, as of 2010.[3] It is the only New Hampshire county to have lost population between the 2000 and 2010 Censuses. The county seat is Lancaster. Major industries are forestry and tourism, with the once-dominant paper-making industry in sharp decline.

[parocks]

http://www.berlindailysun.com/

[RIPLEYMOM]

Can they win w/out us?

[69360]

that's not where Romney gets his votes

Correct, Romney's support is much higher in southern NH closer to Mass, you can see this in the 2008 returns by county.

But this is still a good project to work on, support is support, no matter who it draws from.


Coös occupies the largest area of any New Hampshire county, but has the smallest population: 33,055, as of 2010.[3] It is the only New Hampshire county to have lost population between the 2000 and 2010 Censuses. The county seat is Lancaster. Major industries are forestry and tourism, with the once-dominant paper-making industry in sharp decline.

I've been up there to Berlin a few times, it's a nice area, but not a lot of people and does seem to be dying a bit.


Can they win w/out us?

No, the GOP can't win without our 10% of the party.

[Anti Federalist]

Moving one step closer, I think I may run with this.

Granite State News is part of the Salmon Press newspaper group, they publish weekly targeted newspapers that cover NH.

http://www.newhampshirelakesandmountains.com/CallPage-8354.113119-Salmon-Press-Coverage-Map.html

They quoted me $301 to run a three column x 10" ad of the flyer in this thread.

The next step may be another one in the Coos county paper where this issue really hits home.

[Anti Federalist]

Bump for NH visitors

[harikaried]

66% of Romney support is weak, and those people have a good reason to switch to Paul for the reason in this thread!

[Anti Federalist]

I've decided to run the ad.

[jbuttell]

I've decided to run the ad.

U have a chip in? ;)

[Anti Federalist]

U have a chip in? ;)

Nope, I'm gonna bite the bullet for the first one myself.

If I get any kind of feedback, I might set up one to run it in the other local papers.

[european]

+ rep and you can look into the mirror knowing you stood your ground :)

[Anti Federalist]

Print and pass the flyers out as well.

[specsaregood]

I've decided to run the ad.

Short and sweet, let us know if you want support of anytime. Did you add an FEC required disclaimer to it?

[vechorik]

Some NH WANT the power to pass through.

It might be less-expensive (and more effective) to work through a mailing list of opposition groups to the line.
I submitted a list of opposition groups and suggestion of a letter/brochure to those OPPOSING the line.
In the campaign suggestion box last week. Guess no action on it.

[vechorik]

The opposition groups are listed here http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?329825-Letter-amp-brochure-to-opponents-of-NH-power-line

Maybe there is a list of emails or mailing addresses the campaign can get and write a LETTER, plus a brochure to these NH people.

[vechorik]

Life Free or Fry main opposition group: http://livefreeorfry.org/
2nd group against the towers: Society for the protection of NH forests: http://www.forestsociety.org/Default.asp
3rd group against the towers: Appalachian Mountain club has a petition against it http://www.outdoors.org/

I'm new around here. I spent over $800 for Dr. Paul brochures for others to give out. Wish it could be used to contact these groups with a Dr. Paul letter stating his position as president and how it will affect these people.

[GeorgiaAvenger]

Nope, I'm gonna bite the bullet for the first one myself.

If I get any kind of feedback, I might set up one to run it in the other local papers.

What exactly are you running it in?

[specsaregood]

What exactly are you running it in?

This might help:

Moving one step closer, I think I may run with this.

Granite State News is part of the Salmon Press newspaper group, they publish weekly targeted newspapers that cover NH.

http://www.newhampshirelakesandmountains.com/CallPage-8354.113119-Salmon-Press-Coverage-Map.html

They quoted me $301 to run a three column x 10" ad of the flyer in this thread.

The next step may be another one in the Coos county paper where this issue really hits home.

[bill_mcgonigle]

D.A.S - can you lay out a PDF of this so that if we're printing Portrait we'd get 3-4 of these (sideways)?

We could run them off at Staples or whatever for a few cents a piece if we could get multiples per page.

I drove up to Waterville Valley through Dorchester/Plymouth, etc. and probably passed 50 "Stop Northern Pass" signs.

[Anti Federalist]

The ad ran today for a week in the Granite State News, page B2.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h277/123donnay/RonPauladinGSN.jpg

[RDM]

The ad ran today for a week in the Granite State News, page B2.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h277/123donnay/RonPauladinGSN.jpg

+ Rep.............Well Done!!!

[D.A.S.]

The ad ran today for a week in the Granite State News, page B2.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h277/123donnay/RonPauladinGSN.jpg

WHOA!! Great work!! Many kudos to you!

[Anti Federalist]

WHOA!! Great work!! Many kudos to you!

And to you for the layout!

I went with it just as it was, with the exception of the required FEC crap at the bottom.

[Anti Federalist]

Full page ad in a few local newspapers?

Couldn't go full page...

Will quarter page suffice?

;)

[GunnyFreedom]

Paul is going to crush Obama!

[D.A.S.]

Paul is going to crush Obama!

Hells yea, but first let him CRUSH all of the GOP contenders!

You know, from watching the recent debate and forums, I think the tide is turning, and I think Ron Paul has really been coming into his element on stage. That Thanksgiving family forum was incredible, and you could see the respect and admiration all around as Ron Paul spoke in such personal and wise terms that no one could come even close to him on substance. The CNN National Security Debate was excellent, too, and the applause Ron Paul was able to draw from the audience was a good indicator that people are really thinking about his policies and are starting to come around to them.

Still, we have a lot of work to do to organize the grassroots, and this is how we do it. Iowa and New Hampshire are MUST MUST MUST for us.

[GunnyFreedom]

Hells yea, but first let him CRUSH all of the GOP contenders!

You know, from watching the recent debate and forums, I think the tide is turning, and I think Ron Paul has really been coming into his element on stage. That Thanksgiving family forum was incredible, and you could see the respect and admiration all around as Ron Paul spoke in such personal and wise terms that no one could come even close to him on substance. The CNN National Security Debate was excellent, too, and the applause Ron Paul was able to draw from the audience was a good indicator that people are really thinking about his policies and are starting to come around to them.

Still, we have a lot of work to do to organize the grassroots, and this is how we do it. Iowa and New Hampshire are MUST MUST MUST for us.

Yeah I know, I think they do too. It's just good to know there's good news ahead. :)

[donnay]

No One But Paul!!

[LEK]

Nice Flyer!!!

I wouldn't vote for Romney as dog-catcher.

Only Ron Paul will get my vote.

[kylejack]

It's unfortunate that many view eminent domain as legitimate for utilities.

[D.A.S.]

And to you for the layout!

I went with it just as it was, with the exception of the required FEC crap at the bottom.

I can't read it from the picture, but what did you put in the FEC disclaimer? "Not paid or authorized by any campaign or candidate"?

[Anti Federalist]

I can't read it from the picture, but what did you put in the FEC disclaimer? "Not paid or authorized by any campaign or candidate"?

Paid political ad not authorized by any campaign or candidate.

[Anti Federalist]

Bump

[GeorgiaAvenger]

This ad should be run widespread

http://i.imgur.com/R2tFG.jpg

[muzzled dogg]

AF does this effect people in the hanover area?

campaign is knocking on doors there this weekend. i don't know if would be advantageous to mention this in discussion

[vechorik]

Well, the ad is a double-edged sword. Many NH are in FAVOR of the power line! That's why I thought a letter with a brochure to the opposition groups would have been a good thing. Those FAVORING the line would never see the letter.

[LibertyIn08]

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Stop-The-Northern-Pass-No-High-Tension-Power-Lines-in-Coos-County/161856213834437

Good group to let know about this.

[bill_mcgonigle]

AF does this effect people in the hanover area?

campaign is knocking on doors there this weekend. i don't know if would be advantageous to mention this in discussion

Not really an issue in Hanover - more from Dorchester over to Plymouth and up.

[Anti Federalist]

AF does this effect people in the hanover area?

campaign is knocking on doors there this weekend. i don't know if would be advantageous to mention this in discussion

Sorry Shem, missed this.

I don't know if it would be that big a deal, always worth noting as property rights issue.

[Anti Federalist]

It seemed to have generated some "buzz".

So I'm going to run in some northern papers as well.

[RDM]

It seemed to have generated some "buzz".

So I'm going to run in some northern papers as well.

Care to elaborate?

[Anti Federalist]

Care to elaborate?

I got some feedback from people I know, that said people they know, saw the ad, were asking about it and supportive of RP's stance.

So, the same outfit prints for the whole state, different papers covering each region.

http://www.newhampshirelakesandmountains.com/pageimages/2010SalmonMap.jpg

This was in the Granite State News. I'm going to run it Coos County Democrat and the Littleton Courier as well since these are the areas directly affected by Northern Pass.

[RDM]

I got some feedback from people I know, that said people they know, saw the ad, were asking about it and supportive of RP's stance.

So, the same outfit prints for the whole state, different papers covering each region.


Thanks for the update. Sounds positive.

[lucent]

Wouldn't it be beneficial to send out a mass mailer that is essentially a post card with a version of that ad on it?

[Anti Federalist]

Bump for the new readers.

[Unknown.User]

Local television station ad costs?

Can we get the official campaign on this? If not, start a Chip in. Be sure to include deadline so we can recover from tonight.

[Anti Federalist]

Local television station ad costs?

Can we get the official campaign on this? If not, start a Chip in. Be sure to include deadline so we can recover from tonight.

Couldn't tell you what a TV ad would cost.

I have an ad buy lined up for the same ad in three papers a week before the primary.

A quarter page Union Leader ad costs $2500 bucks.

[Unknown.User]

Couldn't tell you what a TV ad would cost.

I have an ad buy lined up for the same ad in three papers a week before the primary.

A quarter page Union Leader ad costs $2500 bucks.

We should really do both... Winning Iowa make NH largely a two man constant. The Serial Hypocrisy ad was a bazooka that downed Newt in Iowa. An ad emphasizing this local issue is a perfect to do the same to Romney in NH. $2500 for the Union Leader is good deal. But we really need to run a television ad as well to nail Romney hard.

If you have time, please look into ad costs on local stations so we can get organized. If we deny Newt 1st and 2nd in Iowa and NH he will become irrelevant. Winning both Iowa and NH almost assures us SC and Florida since conservatives prefer Paul's message to Romney anyways.

[tsetsefly]

We should really do both... Winning Iowa make NH largely a two man constant. The Serial Hypocrisy ad was a bazooka that downed Newt in Iowa. An ad emphasizing this local issue is a perfect to do the same to Romney in NH. $2500 for the Union Leader is good deal. But we really need to run a television ad as well to nail Romney hard.

If you have time, please look into ad costs on local stations so we can get organized. If we deny Newt 1st and 2nd in Iowa and NH he will become irrelevant. Winning both Iowa and NH almost assures us SC and Florida since conservatives prefer Paul's message to Romney anyways.

+1

[Anti Federalist]

Bump for Paul in second in NH.

Gotta erode that Romney lead.

[Anti Federalist]

////

[surf]

perry - done
gingrich - done
romney....
bump

[beardedlinen]

bump

[GeorgiaAvenger]

bump

As well as we are doing in Iowa, we need to dually focus on NH so that we are not one and done

[Anti Federalist]

////

[GeorgiaAvenger]

bump

[GeorgiaAvenger]

We have to hammer the wedge in the cracks now

[Paulitics 2011]

How can we help with this if we're out of state?

[bill_mcgonigle]

How can we help with this if we're out of state?

Grass roots folks need to canvas a few hundred square miles to sell these voters. They could use some donations for photocopying, gas money, newspaper ads, etc. Send gift cards, perhaps? If you're interested I can put you in touch with key leaders.

[GeorgiaAvenger]

bump

[GeorgiaAvenger]

This should be a targeted mailer. We have time.

[GeorgiaAvenger]

bump

[GeorgiaAvenger]

bump for importance. NH is not that far off

[Anti Federalist]

///

[Anti Federalist]

bump

[Suzu]

I really don't think we ought to be too concerned about Romney; he can't win in the South, and he won't win in Missouri or much of anyplace in the midwest with the possible exception of Michigan where his dad was governor due to the abortion and healthcare flip-flops. Not to mention the fact that the GOP has NEVER nominated anyone who didn't serve in the military.

[roho76]

Power companies of New Hampshire. Do you think we can get any of them on board? Maybe spread the word to their customers? Or are they in on this too?

This might go a long way in NH from a Romney chooses Canada over New Hampshire.


Bridgewater Power Co
300 Route 3, Bristol, NH
(603) 968-9602 ‎


Hemphill Power & Light Co
Fisher Corner Road, Springfield, NH
(603) 763-4757 ‎


Whitefield Power & Light
Airport Road, Whitefield, NH
(603) 837-9328 ‎


Unitil Energy Systems Inc
5 McGuire Street, Concord, NH
(603) 224-2311 ‎ · unitil.com


Mad River Power Associates
Main St , Campton, NH 03223
(603) 726-3616 ‎


Indeck Energy-Alexandria LLC
Smith River Road, Bristol, NH
(603) 744-6355 ‎ · indeckenergy.com


Florida Power & Light Co
425 Dam Road, Errol, NH
(603) 482-3292 ‎


National Grid
407 Miracle Mile # 1, Lebanon, NH
(603) 443-4200 ‎ · nationalgridus.com
1 review


Central Maine Power
162 Canco Rd, Portland, ME
(800) 565-0121 ‎ · cmpco.com


Pinetree Power Inc
1241 Whitefield Rd, Bethlehem, NH
(603) 444-9993 ‎

[Anti Federalist]

///

[Anti Federalist]

bump for another thread

[Anti Federalist]

Reviving...look for new thread and new ad buy.

[libertariantexas]

Perry's record pushing the Texas Toll Road should be a parallel as well.

During the primary, I figured that if Ron Paul couldn't win, I was hoping Perry would.

At least that would have gotten him the heck out of Texas and the entire nation would have had to share the pain :)

[acptulsa]

During the primary, I figured that if Ron Paul couldn't win, I was hoping Perry would.

At least that would have gotten him the heck out of Texas and the entire nation would have had to share the pain :)

Go to hell. You let Dubya get north of the Red River so the rest of the nation could 'share your' Texas 'pain' and what happened? While the rest of us were suffering, you went and replaced Dubya with that jackass Perry.

You crazy people can just be masochists on your own time. You don't need any help from us. I personally wish y'all would secede already so we can crack down on our southern border. :p

[Anti Federalist]

Go to hell. You let Dubya get north of the Red River so the rest of the nation could 'share your' Texas 'pain' and what happened? While the rest of us were suffering, you went and replaced Dubya with that jackass Perry.

You crazy people can just be masochists on your own time. You don't need any help from us. I personally wish y'all would secede already so we can crack down on our southern border. :p

<grack>

<<errkkk>>

<<<snort>>>

<<<<spew>>>>

ROTFLMAO!!!!!

Oh...oh god...oh...I hurt myself....LMAO!!!

[acptulsa]

Oh...oh god...oh...I hurt myself....LMAO!!!

Easy for you. You don't have 'em right next door!

Did I ever tell you about the time we had to put up with half their damned legislature because they knew if they allowed a quorum to happen they'd be gerrymandered into oblivion? Our own legislature in the state and half of theirs, too. That was just special. :rolleyes:

[BSU kid]

Eminent domain is pure and plain expansionist evil!

[kathy88]

Go to hell. You let Dubya get north of the Red River so the rest of the nation could 'share your' Texas 'pain' and what happened? While the rest of us were suffering, you went and replaced Dubya with that jackass Perry.

You crazy people can just be masochists on your own time. You don't need any help from us. I personally wish y'all would secede already so we can crack down on our southern border. :p


HAHAHAHAHAHAH OMFG I'm dying here.

[acptulsa]

And it was the Democratic half of their legislature to boot!

We have a saying around here. Tuck Fexas!

The last good thing to come out of that state was Ron Paul. And you know what else? The first good thing to come out of that state was Ron Paul!








Note to my Houston cousins--you know I'm exaggerating. Just not a lot.

[ClydeCoulter]

Reviving...look for new thread and new ad buy.

Where the hell did that thread go?

[TruckinMike]

George Bush is FROM Connecticut -- HE is NOT a TEXAN! HE and the whole BUSH CLAN ARE NOTHING BUT carpet bagging northeastern scum. We we're just bamboozeled by the slick yankee con-job. We mean well, we just ain't the brightest turnips in the patch.:D

[ClydeCoulter]

George Bush is FROM Connecticut -- HE is NOT a TEXAN! HE and the whole BUSH CLAN ARE NOTHING BUT carpet bagging northeastern scum. We we're just bamboozeled by the slick yankee con-job. We mean well, we just ain't the brightest turnip in the patch.:D

Well, start growing Okra :D

[Anti Federalist]

Where the hell did that thread go?

Which thread?

[ClydeCoulter]

Which thread?

Reviving...look for new thread and new ad buy. -AF

I saw it yesterday, but can't find it today (will glady pay tuesday for a hamburger today) :)

[Anti Federalist]

George Bush is FROM Connecticut -- HE is NOT a TEXAN! HE and the whole BUSH CLAN ARE NOTHING BUT carpet bagging northeastern scum. We we're just bamboozeled by the slick yankee con-job. We mean well, we just ain't the brightest turnips in the patch.:D

Ron's from PA.

Mwhahahahahhahahahhaha.

[Anti Federalist]

Reviving...look for new thread and new ad buy. -AF

I saw it yesterday, but can't find it today (will glady pay tuesday for a hamburger today) :)

Hmmm....I'll bump it.

[TruckinMike]

Ron's from PA.

Mwhahahahahhahahahhaha. I hoped that you would have forgotten. LoL! ...No such luck!:p

[acptulsa]

A Connecticut Yankee in King LBJ's Court.

A fate worse than death.

[Travlyr]

Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan are so out of touch with the people it is ridiculous.

I'll vote for the dogcatcher too before I vote for either one of those guys.

[Anti Federalist]

There was a path to victory. It was conceivable, though certainly a very long shot. If Ron Paul had won the Iowa caucus straw poll on January 3rd, in my opinion things would have been different and he would have had a conceivable path to victory. And he came close to winning.

Collins' blathering notwithstanding, I am convinced, Ron could have won in NH, had he aggressively campaigned on the Northern Pass issue and Romney's staff connection to it.

Even more so if he had just come off an IA win.

[Matt Collins]

Collins' blathering notwithstanding, I am convinced, Ron could have won in NH, had he aggressively campaigned on the Northern Pass issue and Romney's staff connection to it.
What polling data do you have to support this? :confused:

[phill4paul]

What polling data do you have to support this? :confused:

Would have been nice if the campaign had payed for one. As opposed to, well, not attacking Romney and hoarding a stash for Jesse's eventual legal fund.

[Matt Collins]

Would have been nice if the campaign had payed for one. They did poll NH... apparently this issue didn't move voters.

[phill4paul]

They did poll NH... apparently this issue didn't move voters.

Do you have a sample of this poll that explicitly mentions Northern Pass and Romney's links to it? Please post this poll and the results along with the name of this specific polling company and their methodology.

[ClydeCoulter]

They did poll NH... apparently this issue didn't move voters.

Do you have a sample of this poll that explicitly mentions Northern Pass and Romney's links to it? Please post this poll and the results along with the name of this specific polling company and their methodology.

^^^ Waiting, Matt ^^^

[jjdoyle]

What polling data do you have to support this? :confused:

He is basing it on real world results of where he ran the ad on his own dime. Unlike your pathetic lie about Tom Woods.

What polling data did Ron Paul 2012 have showing Ron Paul could win Michigan? Was that provided by Mitt Romney's campaign?

[Matt Collins]

Do you have a sample of this poll that explicitly mentions Northern Pass and Romney's links to it? Please post this poll and the results along with the name of this specific polling company and their methodology.
If the campaign internals had shown it was a winnable issue, they would've started talking about it obviously. Unless of course Ron didn't want to.

[phill4paul]

If the campaign internals had shown it was a winnable issue, they would've started talking about it obviously. Unless of course Ron didn't want to.

In your own words...



Please cite the scientifically sound polling data which backs up this claim.

[Crashland]

Do you have a sample of this poll that explicitly mentions Northern Pass and Romney's links to it? Please post this poll and the results along with the name of this specific polling company and their methodology.

It's unlikely that a campaign would ever publicly release internal polling.

[phill4paul]

It's unlikely that a campaign would ever publicly release internal polling.

I'm sure they would sell it though.

[Anti Federalist]

If the campaign internals had shown it was a winnable issue, they would've started talking about it obviously. Unless of course Ron didn't want to.

He WAS asked about it, the quote I used in the ad was from Ron in the Concord Monitor.

And thanks to Phill for pointing this out:

Show me the poll that included this as a specific issue and that this issue generated no response amongst the NH voters.

It was not and is not a big "national" issue, but it sure as hell was a big NH issue at the time.

[Anti Federalist]

He is basing it on real world results of where he ran the ad on his own dime. Unlike your pathetic lie about Tom Woods.

Honestly...

The ads ran in three papers across NH.

Two weeks later, IIRC the dates, those papers endorsed Ron.

Then he won Coos county, one of the places that would be most affected by NP.

The campaign wanted no part of it, didn't even want to try and look at it.

The campaign being run by Benton.

Jesus.

You can only run around saying "logical fallacy" so often, until it becomes ridiculous.

Strike a match and hold it to paper, and the paper will burn.

Obvious facts are obvious.

[Matt Collins]

Honestly...

The ads ran in three papers across NH.

Two weeks later, IIRC the dates, those papers endorsed Ron.

Then he won Coos county, one of the places that would be most affected by NP.

The campaign wanted no part of it, didn't even want to try and look at it.

The campaign being run by Benton.

Jesus.

You can only run around saying "logical fallacy" so often, until it becomes ridiculous.

Strike a match and hold it to paper, and the paper will burn.

Obvious facts are obvious.
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/false-cause


Not saying there was no connection, but stringing a bunch of facts together does not equal causation.

Anyway, what polling data do you have to show that this was a winning issue?

[Matt Collins]

Matt question. How many science classes did you take in college? How many logic classes did you take? WRT science, not all science is based on "polling". Sometimes there are things called "controlled experiments". That's what it sounds like AF did. He tested his hypothesis by taking out ads and seeing if there was an effect. Seems like there was. His not having a "poll" to go along with it does in no way negate the validity of this experiment. And copying and pasting from "your logical fallacy.com" doesn't make you a logician. Just saying.There was no control group.... and there was no proof of correlation... a poll showing this being a winning issue would go a long way to linking the two and making correlation and causation much more likely.

[phill4paul]

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/false-cause


Not saying there was no connection, but stringing a bunch of facts together does not equal causation.

Anyway, what polling data do you have to show that this was a winning issue?

And another neg for...https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/false-cause

Still waiting on your polling data w/ regards to N.P. Put up or shut up.

[Matt Collins]

Still waiting on your polling data w/ regards to N.P. Put up or shut up.
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof

[Matt Collins]

Sorry Matt. You're not a scientist. Quit trying to play one on the internet. The "control group" are the counties that didn't get any ad money.No, because they are not identical to the counties where ads were run... therefore they cannot be a control group because they are different than the variable group.

[phill4paul]

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof

Annnnd....another neg. Put up or shut up.

[acptulsa]

No, because they are not identical to the counties where ads were run... therefore they cannot be a control group because they are different than the variable group.

Then it's not possible to have a control group at all because no two counties in the nation are absolutely identical.

Which means there's no possible way to turn political science into a hard science.

Which means your logical fallacy is demanding hard science back up any claims and that no technique is worth anything unless it has hard scientific proof behind it, when there is nothing--nothing at all--that you will accept as hard scientific proof.

Have fun stagnating. Excuse us for not joining you in that.

[Matt Collins]

Then it's not possible to have a control group at all because no two counties in the nation are absolutely identical.

Which means there's no possible way to turn political science into a hard science.I don't disagree, which is why polling the counties in question is the only way to show correlation

[acptulsa]

Pity the campaign didn't have a grassroots liaison sharp enough to tell the campaign this was going on so they could conduct a poll at the time. Might have yielded useful data.

[jjdoyle]

For those that aren't aware of the ads run by Anti Federalist at the time, here's a post he made on it with picture included:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?346576-Ran-the-Northern-Pass-ad-again-today

[jmdrake]

No, because they are not identical to the counties where ads were run... therefore they cannot be a control group because they are different than the variable group.

Again, you're not scientist. Control groups are never "identical", just reasonably close. You've not given any argument as to why they aren't reasonably close. And your explanation as to why the newspapers where the advertisements were bought endorsed Ron is what exactly?

[acptulsa]

I happen to believe in microtargeting, myself.

Goes along with my libertarian love of decentralization, I guess.

[libertarianinternational]

What polling data do you have to support this? :confused:

There's a lot of people with links to the NYC area in NH and lots of farmland as well. If Ron Paul had run on a platform of 9/11 truth, GMO labeling and ending the systemic use of chemtrails, I am sure he would have won. Seems like people like you and Jesse tried to censor Ron and prevent him speaking the truth.

[Matt Collins]

Again, you're not scientist. Control groups are never "identical", just reasonably close. You've not given any argument as to why they aren't reasonably close. Is Williamson County and Shelby County close at all? Or even Williamson and Davidson?

[Anti Federalist]

Anyway, what polling data do you have to show that this was a winning issue?

NH GOP primary voting results.

I ran the ads the last week of December IIRC.


The Salmon Press Newspapers group (the Littleton Courier, Berlin Reporter, and Coos County Democrat) endorsed Paul on January 4

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election_in_New_Hampshi re,_2012

They endorsed on 4 Jan, I am convinced because of that ad. And the ONLY major newspaper outlet to do so in NH.

RP then went on to win Coos county, where this issue was important, where I ran the ads, and where the local paper group endorsed him.

Now, that, to me, is fairly conclusive proof that the issue resonated, was important and Ron was on the right side of.

The campaign deliberately screwed the pooch on this, it was not like they didn't know, and Benton was in charge.

At the very least, I have a better record, working on my own dumb HS drop out ass, than the "official" campaign did, with more degrees than a thermometer hanging about, drawing six figure salaries.

ETA - Reading back through this thread, I see my memory is not too far off, and the dates are correct.

[Anti Federalist]

I don't disagree, which is why polling the counties in question is the only way to show correlation

Polling will prove correlation but winning does not.

Gotcha.

[Anti Federalist]

And thanks to the mod who shifted the argument to this thread.

+rep

[jmdrake]

Is Williamson County and Shelby County close at all? Or even Williamson and Davidson?

Matt, you haven't made an argument about the counties the ad was run in. That said, is Williamson County close at all to Rutherford County? Yes. If your claim is that the three counties that AF ran the ads in are significantly different than every other county in the state....well extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. So where's your proof? Really Matt, your argument is silly.

[jmdrake]

Matt, please answer this question.

Your explanation as to why the newspapers where the advertisements were bought endorsed Ron is what exactly?

[specsaregood]

The campaign deliberately screwed the pooch on this, it was not like they didn't know, and Benton was in charge.

At the very least, I have a better record, working on my own dumb HS drop out ass, than the "official" campaign did, with more degrees than a thermometer hanging about, drawing six figure salaries.

ETA - Reading back through this thread, I see my memory is not too far off, and the dates are correct.

So what is the lesson here? That a future campaign might be wise to spend some effort talking to and researching hotbutton local issues and campaigning on those instead of only national issues/politics?

[Anti Federalist]

Matt, you haven't made an argument about the counties the ad was run in. That said, is Williamson County close at all to Rutherford County? Yes. If your claim is that the three counties that AF ran the ads in are significantly different than every other county in the state....well extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. So where's your proof? Really Matt, your argument is silly.

And it is not just this, I am using this because I had first hand knowledge of it.

But the campaign was a disaster in NH, and now I've become convinced that it was deliberate, that the fix was in for Romney all along.

The only question I have at this point is: did Ron know of and approve of this plan?

I hate to think for a second that he did.

[jmdrake]

So what is the lesson here? That a future campaign might be wise to spend some effort talking to and researching hotbutton local issues and campaigning on those instead of only national issues/politics?

The grassroots needs to better organize and work together and not rely on the national campaign for everything. We've got $520K in RP 2012 funds right now sitting in a legal fund. Some of the money that went to national should have gone to AF's effort. That's the real lesson here. In 2008 grassroots money was wasted on projects like the blimp. In 2012 national money was wasted on ads attacking Santorum and Gingrich when they were already basically toast. And really, the biggest lesson is that we all need our own personal campaign war chest long before we get to 2016. If more of us can max out our national funds early and then direct money to worthy grassroots efforts that's a winning combination. This makes me thankful that there are campaign finance limits or else nobody would ever max out.

[Anti Federalist]

So what is the lesson here? That a future campaign might be wise to spend some effort talking to and researching hotbutton local issues and campaigning on those instead of only national issues/politics?

Yes, in a nutshell.

Certainly Randal would be unwise to campaign in Missouri for instance, and not address how his brand of "libertarianism" could prevent another Mike Brown killing and the unrest that it unleashed.

[Anti Federalist]

The grassroots needs to better organize and work together and not rely on the national campaign for everything. We've got $520K in RP 2012 funds right now sitting in a legal fund. Some of the money that went to national should have gone to AF's effort. That's the real lesson here. In 2008 grassroots money was wasted on projects like the blimp. In 2012 national money was wasted on ads attacking Santorum and Gingrich when they were already basically toast. And really, the biggest lesson is that we all need our own personal campaign war chest long before we get to 2016. If more of us can max out our national funds early and then direct money to worthy grassroots efforts that's a winning combination. This makes me thankful that there are campaign finance limits or else nobody would ever max out.

And that.

My mistake was listening to the "officials" too long.

Damn them, everybody needs to work on what they see as best.

[cajuncocoa]

And it is not just this, I am using this because I had first hand knowledge of it.

But the campaign was a disaster in NH, and now I've become convinced that it was deliberate, that the fix was in for Romney all along.

The only question I have at this point is: did Ron know of and approve of this plan?

I hate to think for a second that he did.


Here's my theory.....

The campaign aka RonPaul, Inc. (RPI) told Ron he couldn't win. Whether or not that was really true (that he couldn't win), none of us will ever know. But they wanted to keep the fire burning for Rand. Ron was OK with that. Rand's his son, after all.

RPI convinced Ron to play along -- after convincing him that he couldn't win in 2012 -- they convinced him to help Romney, they got Rand the spot on Hannity to endorse Romney (so what if that pisses off Dad's grassroots supporters? we'll need to kick them under the bus before 2016 rolls around anyway!) They'll get Rand elected by watering down Ron's message....again, so what if the grassroots gets pissed off? It's not about them, it's about the low-hanging fruit....and just think of the plum jobs the members of RPI will have in a Rand Paul administration one day. Yes, indeed.

Life is good.

[Anti Federalist]

Here's my theory.....

The campaign aka RonPaul, Inc. (RPI) told Ron he couldn't win. Whether or not that was really true (that he couldn't win), none of us will ever know. But they wanted to keep the fire burning for Rand. Ron was OK with that. Rand's his son, after all.

RPI convinced Ron to play along -- after convincing him that he couldn't win in 2012 -- they convinced him to help Romney, they got Rand the spot on Hannity to endorse Romney (so what if that pisses off Dad's grassroots supporters? we'll need to kick them under the bus before 2016 rolls around anyway!) They'll get Rand elected by watering down Ron's message....again, so what if the grassroots gets pissed off? It's not about them, it's about the low-hanging fruit....and just think of the plum jobs the members of RPI will have in a Rand Paul administration one day. Yes, indeed.

Life is good.

:(

I think you are probably pretty close to correct.


The Goldwater Revolution, before I was born, was supposed to "change things".

The Reagan Revolution, that I was part of, was supposed to "change things".

The Contract with America Revolution in 1994, was supposed to "change things".

The Consolidated GOP Revolution in DC during the first Bush years, was supposed to "change things".

The Ron Paul Revolution, was supposed to "change things".

The Rand Paul Revolution will "change things". We promise, this time.

Politics is entertainment for tyrants, played out for their benefit, by suckers, chumps and fools.

People do not want freedom, they never have wanted freedom, and the only times the human race has had a little bit of freedom is when men of action SEIZED it from the wretched refuse of the political and ruling classes and ignored the howls and protestations of the Stockholm Syndrome addled masses.

Until they themselves turned into the "pigs".

It is long past time to re-set the clock to zero.

[Brian4Liberty]

So what is the lesson here? That a future campaign might be wise to spend some effort talking to and researching hotbutton local issues and campaigning on those instead of only national issues/politics?


I happen to believe in microtargeting, myself.

Goes along with my libertarian love of decentralization, I guess.

Yeah, sounds like good ideas. I would guess that the caveat is to make sure that positions on local issues do not conflict with each other or with national positions.

[philipped]

Here's my theory.....

The campaign aka RonPaul, Inc. (RPI) told Ron he couldn't win. Whether or not that was really true (that he couldn't win), none of us will ever know. But they wanted to keep the fire burning for Rand. Ron was OK with that. Rand's his son, after all.

RPI convinced Ron to play along -- after convincing him that he couldn't win in 2012 -- they convinced him to help Romney, they got Rand the spot on Hannity to endorse Romney (so what if that pisses off Dad's grassroots supporters? we'll need to kick them under the bus before 2016 rolls around anyway!) They'll get Rand elected by watering down Ron's message....again, so what if the grassroots gets pissed off? It's not about them, it's about the low-hanging fruit....and just think of the plum jobs the members of RPI will have in a Rand Paul administration one day. Yes, indeed.

Life is good.

Ron Paul Inc. Will not be Rand Paul's campaign. When did we draw the conclusion that it would be?