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View Full Version : This Documentary will Change your life. Watch it.




Eric21ND
11-01-2011, 05:45 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyPzGUsYyKM

Century Of The Self

This is not some Conspiracy Theory kooky stuff. This is the BBC series and this thing will show you how they control your minds.

It will make you think and it will change the way you view the world. Once you understand how you've been conned, then you can proceed towards protecting yourself. I am recommending this because I notice many people desire to know what is going on but are arguing over the symptoms but not the causes.

By understanding how mass opinion is guided and how democracy was used by clever psychological manipulators to extract wealth, you can get a framework for understanding mass mind control and how it influences your life.

AJ187
11-01-2011, 05:49 AM
I'll watch it later, Eric!

Eric21ND
11-01-2011, 05:51 AM
Our culture is definitely wants over needs these days.

Consumer society is the basis of a modern democracy. It serves many purposes. Trinkets and toys provide good distractions and make it feel as if your quality of life is getting better. People think they're better off than they've ever been because they bought an iPad for $500 bucks. But they don't stop to think that 50 years ago a single man could support his wife, children and basically an entire household working only 40 hours a week.

In the beginning of the documentary they show how they convinced women to smoke. The tobacco companies basically said that there is 50% of the market that we cannot get to because of social convention. So they hired the master mind controller Edward Bernays to remedy that.

They equated cigarettes with the male penis, called them torches of freedom and the rest is history. To this day, female smoking is associated with independence, feminism and a rebellion against paternalistic norms.

sanssq
11-01-2011, 06:01 AM
"If we understand the mechanism and motives of the group mind, is it not possible to control and regiment the masses according to our will without their knowing about it? The recent practice of propaganda has proved that it is possible, at least up to a certain point and within certain limits." Edward Bernays Propaganda (1928)

123tim
11-01-2011, 06:03 AM
Thanks for the post.

sanssq
11-01-2011, 06:07 AM
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ...We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society. ...In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons...who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind." Edward Bernays Propaganda (1928)

Miss Annie
11-01-2011, 06:15 AM
2 Timothy 3:1-5

King James Version (KJV)

2 Timothy 3

1This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

3Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

4Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

5Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

hazek
11-01-2011, 06:52 AM
Sorry to burst your bubble OP, but people around here are hopelessly ignorant still thinking they can create a real chance of someone getting elected by sing waving and winning strawpolls while not just me alone but several others have already shown this info (just one example about the same documentary: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?279280-Behind-the-curtain-What-the-Status-Quo-pray-you-never-learn) about how media propaganda is our biggest obstacle and that if we don't properly address it nothing will ever change.

Unfortunately no one will listen when I constantly repeat myself that the only way to achieve change, the only freaking way, like there's no other way, not just in my opinion but this is a fact, nothing else will help, than if we .. collectivily .. decide to make it our .. 1st priority .. to design .. our own propaganda .. and find an effective way of spreading to .. combat the media propaganda .. and that focusing on anything else will only guarantee our ultimate defeat.

Until the vast majority of people who support our cause understand this and put it to practice, there is no hope. Anything else we try will have the same effect as a single person would have using his own vocal chords to persuade a 50000 people large audience listening to a loudspeaker on a stage.

Acala
11-01-2011, 07:11 AM
Sorry to burst your bubble OP, but people around here are hopelessly ignorant still thinking they can create a real chance of someone getting elected by sing waving and winning strawpolls while not just me alone but several others have already shown this info (just one example about the same documentary: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?279280-Behind-the-curtain-What-the-Status-Quo-pray-you-never-learn) about how media propaganda is our biggest obstacle and that if we don't properly address it nothing will ever change.

Unfortunately no one will listen when I constantly repeat myself that the only way to achieve change, the only freaking way, like there's no other way, not just in my opinion but this is a fact, nothing else will help, than if we .. collectivily .. decide to make it our .. 1st priority .. to design .. our own propaganda .. and find an effective way of spreading to .. combat the media propaganda .. and that focusing on anything else will only guarantee our ultimate defeat.

Until the vast majority of people who support our cause understand this and put it to practice, there is no hope. Anything else we try will have the same effect as a single person would have using his own vocal chords to persuade a 50000 people large audience listening to a loudspeaker on a stage.

Or you work at the root, eliminating the human susceptibility to manipulation.

Bruno
11-01-2011, 07:19 AM
Sorry to burst your bubble OP, but people around here are hopelessly ignorant still thinking they can create a real chance of someone getting elected by sing waving and winning strawpolls while not just me alone but several others have already shown this info (just one example about the same documentary: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?279280-Behind-the-curtain-What-the-Status-Quo-pray-you-never-learn) about how media propaganda is our biggest obstacle and that if we don't properly address it nothing will ever change.

Unfortunately no one will listen when I constantly repeat myself that the only way to achieve change, the only freaking way, like there's no other way, not just in my opinion but this is a fact, nothing else will help, than if we .. collectivily .. decide to make it our .. 1st priority .. to design .. our own propaganda .. and find an effective way of spreading to .. combat the media propaganda .. and that focusing on anything else will only guarantee our ultimate defeat.

Until the vast majority of people who support our cause understand this and put it to practice, there is no hope. Anything else we try will have the same effect as a single person would have using his own vocal chords to persuade a 50000 people large audience listening to a loudspeaker on a stage.

You have said that numerous times but have no plan. What do you suggest this new media be? What new propaganda do you suggest creating? We are trying all sorts of ways to combat the media. But you can't just make a new cable channel out of thin air to be the Ron Paul media and expect tens of millions to stop watching their local news, national news, FOX, CNN, MSNBC, and watching/listening to Hannity, O'Reilly, Rush, Levin, etc. and switch over to this new media.

We are doing the best with the infrastructure we have at our disposal.

hazek
11-01-2011, 07:23 AM
Or you work at the root, eliminating the human susceptibility to manipulation.

See OP what I'm talking about? Perfect example of the ignorance I mentioned.

Acala, do you really think it's possible to eliminate a consequence of how our brains are built? I mean sure there's one way and it's to shoot yourself in the head and blow your brains out. Or do you believe you're not being manipulated? Seriously, do you really think you are somehow impervious to propaganda just because you're aware of it in this one area? Can you really be that ignorant? :rolleyes:

Agorism
11-01-2011, 07:32 AM
Good documentary.

No Free Beer
11-01-2011, 07:34 AM
Sorry to burst your bubble OP, but people around here are hopelessly ignorant still thinking they can create a real chance of someone getting elected by sing waving and winning strawpolls while not just me alone but several others have already shown this info (just one example about the same documentary: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?279280-Behind-the-curtain-What-the-Status-Quo-pray-you-never-learn) about how media propaganda is our biggest obstacle and that if we don't properly address it nothing will ever change.

Unfortunately no one will listen when I constantly repeat myself that the only way to achieve change, the only freaking way, like there's no other way, not just in my opinion but this is a fact, nothing else will help, than if we .. collectivily .. decide to make it our .. 1st priority .. to design .. our own propaganda .. and find an effective way of spreading to .. combat the media propaganda .. and that focusing on anything else will only guarantee our ultimate defeat.

Until the vast majority of people who support our cause understand this and put it to practice, there is no hope. Anything else we try will have the same effect as a single person would have using his own vocal chords to persuade a 50000 people large audience listening to a loudspeaker on a stage.

Sorry, I don't want to manipulate people. I want to give out the truth. Let the people decide. Maybe I am reading your statements wrong, but I don't want to control anyone, I don't want to sink to other people's levels. Therefore, I do not agree with your comment.

hazek
11-01-2011, 07:38 AM
Therefore, I do not agree with your comment.

Than you will lose and we will keep losing in our cause. I'm sorry that the human nature is the way it is. But reason is not how people for the most part make decisions, most of the time it's through emotions.

Propaganda or good communicating skills, what's the difference? Both mean the same. I don't want to trick people into anything. I want to communicate in a way that they'll be able to swallow my message instead of the one the media propaganda spews 24/7/365.

If you can't get your head around this logic you will never experience change. Never.

EDIT: Btw why do you think Ron keeps hanging around the 12% huh? You think that's an accident?

sanssq
11-01-2011, 08:01 AM
What is needed is a 24 hr Liberty Network Internet TV "channel". Programed. Like FOX, CNN, MSNBC. There is plenty of content available. People are conditioned to view "news" in a certain way.

sanssq
11-01-2011, 08:03 AM
Any mass media people out there?

jmdrake
11-01-2011, 08:17 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyPzGUsYyKM

Century Of The Self

This is not some Conspiracy Theory kooky stuff. This is the BBC series and this thing will show you how they control your minds.

It will make you think and it will change the way you view the world. Once you understand how you've been conned, then you can proceed towards protecting yourself. I am recommending this because I notice many people desire to know what is going on but are arguing over the symptoms but not the causes.

By understanding how mass opinion is guided and how democracy was used by clever psychological manipulators to extract wealth, you can get a framework for understanding mass mind control and how it influences your life.

Thanks for the vid. I'll watch it later. And don't sweat the "bubble bursters" who don't realize that most of us have been doing what we can to work around the propaganda machine the best way we can which is way we make and/or share YouTubes and do our best to dominate the "new media" of the internet or participate in the "call from home" program. I don't know a single person who thinks "sign waving" is the be all/end all. It's a decent way to get people out and at least do something but that's just a first step. But some people feel the need to lecture others about what they already know. That's sad but it's just how the human brain works. ;)

Bruno
11-01-2011, 08:17 AM
See OP what I'm talking about? Perfect example of the ignorance I mentioned.

Acala, do you really think it's possible to eliminate a consequence of how our brains are built? I mean sure there's one way and it's to shoot yourself in the head and blow your brains out. Or do you believe you're not being manipulated? Seriously, do you really think you are somehow impervious to propaganda just because you're aware of it in this one area? Can you really be that ignorant? :rolleyes:

In case you missed the opportunity to share your plan...enlighten us ignorant people how we can get Ron Paul elected in 2012 with the clock ticking and your plan to create our own media/propaganda (which is inheritantly an issue among many of us to spew propaganda).


You have said that numerous times but have no plan. What do you suggest this new media be? What new propaganda do you suggest creating? We are trying all sorts of ways to combat the media. But you can't just make a new cable channel out of thin air to be the Ron Paul media and expect tens of millions to stop watching their local news, national news, FOX, CNN, MSNBC, and watching/listening to Hannity, O'Reilly, Rush, Levin, etc. and switch over to this new media.

We are doing the best with the infrastructure we have at our disposal.

jmdrake
11-01-2011, 08:19 AM
What is needed is a 24 hr Liberty Network Internet TV "channel". Programed. Like FOX, CNN, MSNBC. There is plenty of content available. People are conditioned to view "news" in a certain way.


Any mass media people out there?

http://prisonplanet.tv/news/nnews.php

http://breakthematrix.com/

http://www.rprradio.com/

hazek
11-01-2011, 08:30 AM
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight I only criticize huh?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?279280-Behind-the-curtain-What-the-Status-Quo-pray-you-never-learn

I'm a very passionate Ron Paul supporter even though I'm not an American. Nothing would make me happier if we could get him elected.

Please set a side anything you know about the political process and how it worked in the last 80 or 90 years and do our movement and Ron Paul a huge favor and spend your time and watch the following documentaries:

I may be wrong but after watching these my conclusions are:
-Ron Paul needs a good PR firm to help him package the message
-we need to hire a firm to use focus groups of GOP voters to find out how they feel about government
-we need to pretend we're selling a product -liberty- for votes and we have to figure out a way to package it accordingly

And last but not least if we as movement don't realize that majority of voters don't cast their votes based on reason as their guide, we will fail again come 2012 primaries.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?279537-What-if-someone-like-Lady-GAGA-asked-freedom-loving-fans-to-vote-for-Ron-Paul


Think about it!

If this really happened how huge of an effect it could have had. One way to spread the message I think should be to focus on converting people movers such as big movie stars or pop singers.

Does anyone have an idea how this could be achieved?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?322885-Book-Made-to-Stick-Why-Some-Ideas-Survive-and-Others-Die

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?301411-quot-Dispelling-myths-about-Ron-Paul-quot-Video-series

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?297299-Live-video-stream-fund-raising-event

And these are just the suggestions where I started a thread about..







Yeah you're right. I only criticize. :rolleyes:

Cleaner44
11-01-2011, 08:49 AM
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight I only criticize huh?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?279280-Behind-the-curtain-What-the-Status-Quo-pray-you-never-learn


http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?279537-What-if-someone-like-Lady-GAGA-asked-freedom-loving-fans-to-vote-for-Ron-Paul



http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?322885-Book-Made-to-Stick-Why-Some-Ideas-Survive-and-Others-Die

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?301411-quot-Dispelling-myths-about-Ron-Paul-quot-Video-series

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?297299-Live-video-stream-fund-raising-event

And these are just the suggestions where I started a thread about..







Yeah you're right. I only criticize. :rolleyes:

Think about this for a minute brother... you are trying to sell your ideas here on this forum, the ideas that could get us over the hump... are you succeeding?

Assuming that you are frustrated becasue you have been failing, the question is why?

Are you employing the techniques needed to persaude people here, those same techniques you would like to see us employ on others?

I know that you have valid points. Right not it seems that you are hitting the same wall that Ron Paul is. Can you set the example, sell your idea to us, so others can sell the idea on liberty and Ron Paul?

Travlyr
11-01-2011, 08:55 AM
Thanks for the vid. I'll watch it later. And don't sweat the "bubble bursters" who don't realize that most of us have been doing what we can to work around the propaganda machine the best way we can which is way we make and/or share YouTubes and do our best to dominate the "new media" of the internet or participate in the "call from home" program. I don't know a single person who thinks "sign waving" is the be all/end all. It's a decent way to get people out and at least do something but that's just a first step. But some people feel the need to lecture others about what they already know. That's sad but it's just how the human brain works. ;)
Yep. We are making progress.

Corporate media is the problem. People are controlled by words, images, and power. Think ~ "Red & Blue." Ron Paul couldn't get his message out at all in the 20th century. I would have loved to know about his presidential bid in 1988. I doubt Walter Cronkite ever mentioned Ron Paul's name, and I trusted that bastard like I trusted my own father. Corporate media is still the enemy of liberty because the people in power know that if Ron Paul gets elected, their days in power come to an end.

Ron has promised to bring the troops home which will disintegrate their beloved profitable warmongering machine. Ron has already picked his Federal Reserve Chairman (Jim Grant) so the days of legalized counterfeiting are numbered. Ron has promised to cut government departments which will dramatically reduce regulations, so the days of big brother watching your every move would begin to wither away.

Ron Paul and his supporters are indeed breaking through the Corporate Media veil. We've got a long way to go, but like RPH posts in his signature,
"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence.Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."
~ C.Coolidge

Onward & Forward

hazek
11-01-2011, 09:02 AM
I know that you have valid points. Right not it seems that you are hitting the same wall that Ron Paul is. Can you set the example, sell your idea to us, so others can sell the idea on liberty and Ron Paul?

I tried and I failed. Then I thought about why I failed and I realized that people are simply ignorant of how powerful media propaganda actually is and that it is our biggest and most powerful enemy we have to defeat if we want to succeed. So I realized that until this changes I have no chance in using any type of persuasion to motivate people to follow any of my ideas. My ideas were predicated on this knowledge already learned.

It's why I refuse to post another idea until people learn about media propaganda and it's power. I constantly write posts reminding and warning people about it and I usually add a link to a video or something where they could learn this from but until they do, and until the majority has learned this and until the majority of us put it into our collective focus and make it our mission to primarily focus on beating the media propaganda as being the only way to really change anything I have 0% chance of getting people to try any of my ideas.

Now unfortunately I can't come to each person and shove this knowledge down their throat, they need to voluntarily decide they want to learn about it.

Bruno
11-01-2011, 09:14 AM
I tried and I failed. Then I thought about why I failed and I realized that people are simply ignorant of how powerful media propaganda actually is and that it is our biggest and most powerful enemy we have to defeat if we want to succeed. So I realized that until this changes I have no chance in using any type of persuasion to motivate people to follow any of my ideas. My ideas were predicated on this knowledge already learned.

It's why I refuse to post another idea until people learn about media propaganda and it's power. I constantly write posts reminding and warning people about it and I usually add a link to a video or something where they could learn this from but until they do, and until the majority has learned this and until the majority of us put it into our collective focus and make it our mission to primarily focus on beating the media propaganda as being the only way to really change anything I have 0% chance of getting people to try any of my ideas.

Now unfortunately I can't come to each person and shove this knowledge down their throat, they need to voluntarily decide they want to learn about it.

Um...I think you are preaching to the choir, here. We had a whole Black This Out thing going on, ya know. If there is anyone who understands media power and the ability to manipulate people, it is a Ron Paul supporter.

If you have a great idea of what new media tool you are looking to create that will counter the multi-billion dollar industry already created and established that people look to their news for, feel free to share. Otherwise, we are still the most creative grassroots around, utilitizing many resources and creatings many firsts with moneybombs for funding traditional media ads, and the Phone from Home program, for just a few examples.

hazek
11-01-2011, 09:23 AM
I actually already posted twice the idea of the official campaign having a person per every state or maybe two to daily go through the local media in their designated state and read about local problems and then send those local outlets Ron's answers to their local problem that the local media could publish.


But I'm not preaching to the choir. If was, you'd all stop all the other nonsense that is virtually powerless against the media such as sign waving, strawpoll organizing, and god knows what else and you'd only think about how to beat the media propaganda.

ALSO which I think is the most important point I'd like to make is that I ONLY KNOW WHAT THE PROBLEM IS, I NEVER SAID I'M ALL KNOWING AND ALSO KNOW THE SOLUTION, that's why I'm constantly saying we need to COLLECTIVELY DECIDE that this is our biggest problem and make it OUR PRIMARY FOCUS to deal with it. Just like on any other topic, the market will find a solution. I'm not the market, I'm merely a single brain, I have some ideas but they could be very bad and someone else might have a lot better ideas that the rest could get behind and work on.

Don't you see what I'm saying here? I don't know the solution. I just know what the problem is. It's like voting people into office because once elected they'll magically know all the answers. No! I don't want to be the one in charge cause I know I don't know the answer. I need you all to realize what the problem is so that we can try and figure it out together.

I mean it's like asking me what the interest rate should be when I tell you that having a central bank is the problem.

If you don't understand this I doubt you understand how the free market works.

moostraks
11-01-2011, 09:23 AM
See OP what I'm talking about? Perfect example of the ignorance I mentioned.

Acala, do you really think it's possible to eliminate a consequence of how our brains are built? I mean sure there's one way and it's to shoot yourself in the head and blow your brains out. Or do you believe you're not being manipulated? Seriously, do you really think you are somehow impervious to propaganda just because you're aware of it in this one area? Can you really be that ignorant? :rolleyes:

No media avenue put forth at this point will obtain the immediate results you are attempting to create. There are some venues out there who have been working as a counter measure that are gaining traction as people awaken from the msm's stupor. Treating people who don't feel passion for your one means as ignoramuses will not garner support for your cause. You cannot beat people over the head to demand they participate in alternative media. You have to patiently participate in widening support as you find the disgruntled masses.

Also manipulation works best when people trust the sources and lack understanding on how it is being used upon them. By educating people you destroy much of the manipulator's power. Most (hmmm...maybe just many come to think of it) of us here do not want to be part of a collective which provides alternative enslavement for our fellow citizens even if the ideas are altruistic.

Justinjj1
11-01-2011, 09:26 AM
This was written and directed by the same guy who did The Power of Nightmares. I would encourage every one who has not already, check all parts of this out. It does a wonderful job of explaining the parallels between radical Islam and neoconservatism.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5lByw7kvS0

donnay
11-01-2011, 09:27 AM
Yep. We are making progress.

Corporate media is the problem. People are controlled by words, images, and power. Think ~ "Red & Blue." Ron Paul couldn't get his message out at all in the 20th century. I would have loved to know about his presidential bid in 1988. I doubt Walter Cronkite ever mentioned Ron Paul's name, and I trusted that bastard like I trusted my own father. Corporate media is still the enemy of liberty because the people in power know that if Ron Paul gets elected, their days in power come to an end.

Ron has promised to bring the troops home which will disintegrate their beloved profitable warmongering machine. Ron has already picked his Federal Reserve Chairman (Jim Grant) so the days of legalized counterfeiting are numbered. Ron has promised to cut government departments which will dramatically reduce regulations, so the days of big brother watching your every move would begin to wither away.

Ron Paul and his supporters are indeed breaking through the Corporate Media veil. We've got a long way to go, but like RPH posts in his signature,

Onward & Forward

Well said! +rep

Psychological attempt to continue to brainwash is what the MSM does. You are better to shut it off and research and listen to alternative media!

Agorism
11-01-2011, 09:33 AM
Another point of this video is the politicians only pay attention to swing voters (or a voter who will leave to vote for an indie party maybe?)

Acala
11-01-2011, 09:37 AM
See OP what I'm talking about? Perfect example of the ignorance I mentioned.

Acala, do you really think it's possible to eliminate a consequence of how our brains are built? I mean sure there's one way and it's to shoot yourself in the head and blow your brains out. Or do you believe you're not being manipulated? Seriously, do you really think you are somehow impervious to propaganda just because you're aware of it in this one area? Can you really be that ignorant? :rolleyes:

Human beings are easily manipulated because they are largely unconscious of their emotional responses. There are predatory humans who skillfully manipulate fear, anger, hatred, greed, lust, shame, guilt, and so on, to get people to do what they want. The antidote is for each person to develop mindful awareness of their own emotional responses. And, yes, this can indeed make a person immune to manipulation. It isn't easy and it isn't going to happen on a large scale in my lifetime. But it will eventually change the world. If we survive.

Simply trying to be the better propagandist promises short-term success at best - until the better propagandist comes along.

jmdrake
11-01-2011, 09:42 AM
I actually already posted twice the idea of the official campaign having a person per every state or maybe two to daily go through the local media in their designated state and read about local problems and then send those local outlets Ron's answers to their local problem that the local media could publish.


Then make yourself a party of one to go out and actually do this in your home state and report your results. That would be more productive than cat herding.



But I'm not preaching to the choir. If was, you'd all stop all the other nonsense that is virtually powerless against the media such as sign waving, strawpoll organizing, and god knows what else and you'd only think about how to beat the media propaganda.


Without people doing things like organizing and winning straw polls we wouldn't have much to talk about to the media. We would in effect validate the media blackout by taking ourselves out of the game. Not smart! Besides, a caucus is basically a glorified strawpoll. The same skills on the ground needed to for the strong showing in the Ames strawpoll will be needed in spades to win the Iowa caucus. If we win the caucus the media has to cover it despite themselves. If we come in 2nd, they can talk about who won 1st and 3rd place. If we come in 3rd they'll just talk about the top 2. If we come in 4th...we can hang it up.


We need to "collectively decide"? I thought you were against collectivism?



Don't you see what I'm saying here? I don't know the solution. I just know what the problem is. It's like voting people into office because once elected they'll magically know all the answers. No! I don't want to be the one in charge cause I know I don't know the answer. I need you all to realize what the problem is so that we can try and figure it out together.


If you think you're the only one that realizes the main problem is media is stacked against us then you're not paying attention to what others are saying. That was the entire purpose behind the BTO moneybomb. And yes more needs to be done. So do it. Write letters to the editor. Call into talk radio. Buy advertisement. The plan you mentioned at the start of this post isn't a bad one. Just do it!

Bruno
11-01-2011, 09:47 AM
I actually already posted twice the idea of the official campaign having a person per every state or maybe two to daily go through the local media in their designated state and read about local problems and then send those local outlets Ron's answers to their local problem that the local media could publish.


But I'm not preaching to the choir. If was, you'd all stop all the other nonsense that is virtually powerless against the media such as sign waving, strawpoll organizing, and god knows what else and you'd only think about how to beat the media propaganda.

ALSO which I think is the most important point I'd like to make is that I ONLY KNOW WHAT THE PROBLEM IS, I NEVER SAID I'M ALL KNOWING AND ALSO KNOW THE SOLUTION, that's why I'm constantly saying we need to COLLECTIVELY DECIDE that this is our biggest problem and make it OUR PRIMARY FOCUS to deal with it. Just like on any other topic, the market will find a solution. I'm not the market, I'm merely a single brain, I have some ideas but they could be very bad and someone else might have a lot better ideas that the rest could get behind and work on.

Don't you see what I'm saying here? I don't know the solution. I just know what the problem is. It's like voting people into office because once elected they'll magically know all the answers. No! I don't want to be the one in charge cause I know I don't know the answer. I need you all to realize what the problem is so that we can try and figure it out together.

I mean it's like asking me what the interest rate should be when I tell you that having a central bank is the problem.

If you don't understand this I doubt you understand how the free market works.

So you think sending letters to all the local papers of the old media is the way to create our own new media? I'm confused.

And yes, I and others suggested you could do that yourself, regardless of whether you are in the United States or not. Pick a few publications and start researching contacts, use skype to make free calls, or write emails.

We all know the media is a larger part of the problem. We have not been provided or discovered any game-changing solutions that will help in time. Some have tried to create their own media and have not been extremely succesful. We are left during this election cycle to do our best with the internet, twitter, facebook, signs, moneybombs, grassroots advertising, letters to the editor, talking to our neighbors and friends, calling in to radio programs, door-to-door, Phone from Home, etc.

ZenBowman
11-01-2011, 10:49 AM
Great stuff, it was Adam Curtis' documentaries that really made me take a second look at libertarianism and I began to see that it too was not a panacea and had weaknesses.

I also recommend "What happened to our dreams of freedom?" by the same maker. It takes on some of the more sacred cows, including Von Hayek, Milton Friedman and the Austrian and Chicago schools. Interesting watching, whether or not you agree with him.

Romulus
11-01-2011, 12:05 PM
I am going to watch this.. thanks for posting.

I would encourage people to watch the video posted at the bottom of every page too. It is there for a reason.

Onward.

Johnny Appleseed
11-01-2011, 12:24 PM
Break up with your self

Your self is the hardest person to say no to.

Don't kill your self give your self away.

Not having to carry your self around sure makes life easier.

Can you imagine a less self society?

Ways to lose your self.

1. Nature has always had a way of making my self seem really small

2. I think jumping out of an airplane might work too.

3. I lost a big part of my self just watching the documentary so thanks op

osan
11-01-2011, 08:37 PM
Sorry to burst your bubble OP, but people around here are hopelessly ignorant still thinking they can create a real chance of someone getting elected by sing waving and winning strawpolls while not just me alone but several others have already shown this info (just one example about the same documentary: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?279280-Behind-the-curtain-What-the-Status-Quo-pray-you-never-learn) about how media propaganda is our biggest obstacle and that if we don't properly address it nothing will ever change.

Given the cognitive makeup of humans, this would appear to necessitate sacrificing the sacred cow we call "freedom of the press". It is clear that this issue, as is the case with most others, has at least two potentially conflicting sides. Limiting the press holds a host of hazards of its own. Simplicity and politics are most often mutually exclusive.


Unfortunately no one will listen when I constantly repeat myself that the only way to achieve change, the only freaking way, like there's no other way, not just in my opinion but this is a fact, nothing else will help, than if we .. collectivily .. decide to make it our .. 1st priority .. to design .. our own propaganda .. and find an effective way of spreading to .. combat the media propaganda .. and that focusing on anything else will only guarantee our ultimate defeat.

Until the vast majority of people who support our cause understand this and put it to practice, there is no hope. Anything else we try will have the same effect as a single person would have using his own vocal chords to persuade a 50000 people large audience listening to a loudspeaker on a stage.

Your language smacks of the pragmatist's view on such matters. While some elements of practicality are no doubt essential in such affairs, being principle-centered is IMO absolutely essential to our cause. We claim to represent freedom and everything that is "right" in human affairs. How can we claim such lofty ground while stooping to the same vile tactics that are implied in your position, above? Propaganda, as commonly understood and employed in politics, is a dirty business - the means of the pure pragmatist whose only guiding principle is to win no matter what the means, fair or foul. I cannot speak for anyone else, but I have no interest in joining the ranks of such human filth.

If perchance by "propaganda" you actually mean "education", that is a very different kettle of fish.

Without principle to guide our actions, we are no better than the scum we wish to see gone from power. This does not preclude creative application, but the right principles do circumscribe certain bright lines in the sand. Cross those at your own peril.

IMO, of course.

jmdrake
11-02-2011, 06:05 AM
I just watch the opening 10 minutes of the video. It's very insightful! So Madison Avenue manipulates people by getting them to focus on self and their animal passions? Hmmm...there is an anecdote to that.

Luke 9:23 And he said unto all, If any man would come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

Seraphim
11-02-2011, 06:21 AM
Propaganda - to propagate, diffuse, spread.

Hazek is right. There needs to be a strong libertarian/paleocon/voluntarist/Austrian economics media outlet.

moostraks
11-02-2011, 08:18 AM
Propaganda - to propagate, diffuse, spread.

Hazek is right. There needs to be a strong libertarian/paleocon/voluntarist/Austrian economics media outlet.

hmmm...it was the use of manipulate with the term propaganda that seems to imply by nefarious methods esp. considering Hazek sees it as the only reasonable method to win. So this seems to preclude the use of education but rather appealing to man's baser instincts to win at all costs.

hazek
11-02-2011, 08:36 AM
hmmm...it was the use of manipulate with the term propaganda that seems to imply by nefarious methods esp. considering Hazek sees it as the only reasonable method to win. So this seems to preclude the use of education but rather appealing to man's baser instincts to win at all costs.

Let's pretend for a second we are aliens that just discovered Earth and the human species. Let's pretend we observe how they behave and then try to come up with theories about their behavior, how it's driven, what rules govern it, ect

Now you observe a few humans that when making a decision show incredible commitment to reason and logic, you observe this small group carefully studying the empirical evidence of their surroundings before making any decisions about their lives.

I on the other hand observe a far larger group of humans, say around 85%, who although also capable of sensing the empirical evidence do not share the same commitment to logic and reason. In fact I observe them being governed by their primitive reasoning mechanism - emotions. Neither of us understand why this is so, but that's what the empirical evidence of our observations of the human race show. I also observe that some of the humans have figured out special communicating skills that allow them to steer this larger part of the population in a certain direction in certain areas of their daily life and they call this type of communicating propaganda.

Now suppose we decide it's time to reveal ourselves to them. Suppose we are afraid of their response which we'd like it to be a positive one. On one hand we know that we can reason with about 15% of them but on the other hand we also know that about 85% of them will listen to their emotions instead, and that worries us.




My question to you is this: In the above scenario we have two options:
A) we try to approach the humans with reason and logic, we try to educate them through empirical evidence of our intentions and nature
B) we try to compose our message in the same way as we learned the humans compose propaganda to govern other humans and we make our approach that way


Which one do you rationally think has a better chance of yielding the desired result? Be honest.

p.s.: I don't care if propaganda has a negative connotation, because I understand what it is and I have no moral dilemmas in using it. In fact it would be denying our human nature and the way most of us communicate to do so.

p.s.2: Developing our own propaganda and finding an effective way of spreading without the MSM is the only rational (not reasonable) way to win. This is what the facts of reality are. If you disagree, it's like disagreeing with gravity.

jmdrake
11-02-2011, 08:44 AM
My question to you is this: In the above scenario we have two options:
A) we try to approach the humans with reason and logic, we try to educate them through empirical evidence of our intentions and nature
B) we try to compose our message in the same way as we learned the humans compose propaganda to govern other humans and we make our approach that way


Which one do you rationally think has a better chance of yielding the desired result? Be honest.

p.s.: I don't care if propaganda has a negative connotation, because I understand what it is and I have no moral dilemmas in using it. In fact it would be denying our human nature and the way most of us communicate to do so.

Both approaches are already being used in the liberty movement. Rand plays to the irrational/emotional views of the Tea Party. Ron plays to the rational/logical views of independents. At the end of the day the candidate sets the tone for the campaign, not the grassroots. You can "propagandize" Ron all you want, but in debates and interviews he's going to come forward with the unadulterated truth and undercut your efforts. Consider immigration for a minute. The "emotional" view is to just "talk tough". His video on national security plays a strong emotional cord with a clip of a truck driving by a border fence. But now twice he's criticized the fence citing the unadulterated truth that it could be used to keep Americans from taking their wealth and leaving the country. So who's going to remember the emotional TV commercial?

hazek
11-02-2011, 08:54 AM
Rand plays to the irrational/emotional views of the Tea Party. Ron plays to the rational/logical views of independents.

Eeeeeeexactly. That's why Ron will never win anything other than his congressional seat, I guarantee it however harsh that might might sound and however bad I wished that wasn't true.

BTW I never said anything about commercials.


Again: I'm not trying to push any sort of idea how to create our own propaganda and how to spread it. I have a few ideas but I'm pretty sure there are others out there with thousand of times better ones.

I'm just trying desperately for everyone to drop everything else, and primarily focus on this issue because it's the single most important issue and if we don't focus on it and put our primary effort into defeating the media propaganda, NOTHING ELSE MATTERS. It's like trying to build a house without the foundations.

hazek
11-02-2011, 09:11 AM
Btw I strongly disagree about the candidate dictating the tone of a campaign. You think it's somehow impossible to make people feel good about Ron's honesty? How about his peace and prosperity position? Or his defend liberty position? Or sound money position?

In fact it's easy to make people feel good about those positions. You just have to correctly spin it to them and correctly frame your message to invoke the right emotions.

Please please please watch and educate yourself that what I'm saying is the fact of reality: http://www.linktv.org/video/2142

jmdrake
11-02-2011, 09:39 AM
Hazek, do you realize how you just contradicted yourself? You agreed with my point, then you said Ron can't possibly win, then you said that everybody should drop everything else and do it your way so that he can win, then you said the candidate doesn't set the tenor of the campaign. Cliff notes version is "Don't follow the campaign. Just follow meeeeeeeee...."....right off a cliff. ;) The problem is that even if you were right (and I don't believe you are), you would not be able to accomplish your goal because a group of individualist libertarians aren't going to just drop everything and do things your way. Sorry, but reality is that they aren't. If someone had a magic wand that could get everybody to do what they wanted then Ron's 500,000 donors would have each maxed out at $2,500 giving Ron an unbeatable $125,000,000 war chest. With that much money he'd be able to afford freaking infomercials in every state. But that ain't gonna happen. Folks will drop $25 here or $100 here, but most are going to be cautious and not go all out. If those 500,000 donors each called 10 people that would be more than the population of Iowa and New Hampshire. If we did that every month we'd reach each voter in every primary state with a personal phone call. You only need a small minority of people to win a primary election and even a smaller number to win a caucus. But that ain't gonna happen either. Some folks just don't like making phone calls. I'm one of them. I'll do some, but I'm not like the "monster callers" who are making 50 to 100 calls a night. Me I like door knocking. I talk to friends and family. I've flipped close to 10 Obama voters to being willing to vote for Ron Paul in the GOP primary. I have to follow up to make sure that happens.

Anyhow, if it makes you feel better to dream about what would happen if everybody would just "follow you" I won't take that away from you. Dream on fellow Ron Pauler.

Edit: One last thing. Since I know I have a candidate who appeals to logic and reason instead of emotion, I use logic and reason when flipping Obama supporters to Ron for the primary. It's pretty simple actually. They have nobody to vote for in the primary since Obama will run unopposed. They generally like Dr. Paul and strongly agree with him on the wars and are disappointed with Obama in that respect. So I tell them "You want to throw the GOP a monkey wrench? Vote Ron Paul in the primary!"

libertyfanatic
11-02-2011, 03:56 PM
Great find! Coincidentally, I actually ordered Propaganda by Edward Bernays a few days ago and have just begun reading it.

NewRightLibertarian
11-02-2011, 04:01 PM
Propaganda - to propagate, diffuse, spread.

Hazek is right. There needs to be a strong libertarian/paleocon/voluntarist/Austrian economics media outlet.

We already have Alex Jones, Lew Rockwell, antiwar.com, The Daily Bell, We Are Change, Adam Kokesh, etc. There's no way we're going to get on the television because it's so tightly controlled, but our internet presence is solid.

libertyfanatic
11-02-2011, 04:31 PM
We already have Alex Jones, Lew Rockwell, antiwar.com, The Daily Bell, We Are Change, Adam Kokesh, etc. There's no way we're going to get on the television because it's so tightly controlled, but our internet presence is solid.

What we need to work on is getting people to use the internet as their main means of obtaining information instead of using the tv.

steve005
11-02-2011, 10:19 PM
bump, I watched the first 26 min, this stuff is great and is explaining exactly how we got into this situation

Marenco
11-02-2011, 10:31 PM
Great Documentary. It's quite amazing how manipulated the People can be without most even having a CLUE as to what.

Becker
11-02-2011, 11:40 PM
Adam Curtis makes VERY important films, I do not agree with all of them, but worth watching because like Zeitgeist, they get you thinking.

Don't take them as fact, but as a starting point to further research and discussion.

Century of the Self, Power of Nightmares, The Trap

farrar
11-03-2011, 12:01 AM
Sorry to burst your bubble OP, but people around here are hopelessly ignorant still thinking they can create a real chance of someone getting elected by sing waving and winning strawpolls while not just me alone but several others have already shown this info (just one example about the same documentary: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?279280-Behind-the-curtain-What-the-Status-Quo-pray-you-never-learn) about how media propaganda is our biggest obstacle and that if we don't properly address it nothing will ever change.

Unfortunately no one will listen when I constantly repeat myself that the only way to achieve change, the only freaking way, like there's no other way, not just in my opinion but this is a fact, nothing else will help, than if we .. collectivily .. decide to make it our .. 1st priority .. to design .. our own propaganda .. and find an effective way of spreading to .. combat the media propaganda .. and that focusing on anything else will only guarantee our ultimate defeat.

Until the vast majority of people who support our cause understand this and put it to practice, there is no hope. Anything else we try will have the same effect as a single person would have using his own vocal chords to persuade a 50000 people large audience listening to a loudspeaker on a stage.

We are the propaganda.

Avaroth: Propaganda.
Black this out: Propaganda.
11.11.11: Propaganda.
Freedom Watch: Propaganda.
Books by Ron Paul: Propaganda.
Bumper stickers: Propaganda.
Half the people on this site post all over the internet with their world view and link to websites like:
The miss institute.
The daily paul.
Ron Paul forums.
Ron Paul flix.

ITs all propaganda.
We call it "educating the masses" as if the liberals and necons don't say or think the same thing when they put out their crap.
We have our musicians and comics and books too you know. Video games and movies... they exist and plant the seeds of liberty. But at the end of the day its about what is selling. Liberty has been sitting in the surplus stores, and haggled off as cheap firewood for the last hundred years. But its finding itself back on the shelves these days as the stuff begins to sell out again.

I agree with you, but we're not gonna get a platform like glenn beck had tomorrow, by simply by realizing it. But the above is how it starts, so rest assured that it is happening. But if you have ideas to make it better that are within the immediate realm of possibility then by all means contribute your ideas to these forums please.

LibertyEagle
11-03-2011, 12:07 AM
I actually already posted twice the idea of the official campaign having a person per every state or maybe two to daily go through the local media in their designated state and read about local problems and then send those local outlets Ron's answers to their local problem that the local media could publish.


But I'm not preaching to the choir. If was, you'd all stop all the other nonsense that is virtually powerless against the media such as sign waving, strawpoll organizing, and god knows what else and you'd only think about how to beat the media propaganda.

ALSO which I think is the most important point I'd like to make is that I ONLY KNOW WHAT THE PROBLEM IS, I NEVER SAID I'M ALL KNOWING AND ALSO KNOW THE SOLUTION, that's why I'm constantly saying we need to COLLECTIVELY DECIDE that this is our biggest problem and make it OUR PRIMARY FOCUS to deal with it. Just like on any other topic, the market will find a solution. I'm not the market, I'm merely a single brain, I have some ideas but they could be very bad and someone else might have a lot better ideas that the rest could get behind and work on.

Don't you see what I'm saying here? I don't know the solution. I just know what the problem is. It's like voting people into office because once elected they'll magically know all the answers. No! I don't want to be the one in charge cause I know I don't know the answer. I need you all to realize what the problem is so that we can try and figure it out together.

I mean it's like asking me what the interest rate should be when I tell you that having a central bank is the problem.

If you don't understand this I doubt you understand how the free market works.

Enough of us are not even watching Freedom Watch and it is likely to go off the air. People don't care enough about keeping this one show on air; really the only show there is that consistently promotes Ron Paul.

1836
11-03-2011, 01:34 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyPzGUsYyKM

Century Of The Self

This is not some Conspiracy Theory kooky stuff. This is the BBC series and this thing will show you how they control your minds.

It will make you think and it will change the way you view the world. Once you understand how you've been conned, then you can proceed towards protecting yourself. I am recommending this because I notice many people desire to know what is going on but are arguing over the symptoms but not the causes.

By understanding how mass opinion is guided and how democracy was used by clever psychological manipulators to extract wealth, you can get a framework for understanding mass mind control and how it influences your life.

Whoa, 4 hours long!?

hazek
11-03-2011, 07:03 AM
We are the propaganda.

Avaroth: Propaganda.
Black this out: Propaganda.
11.11.11: Propaganda.
Freedom Watch: Propaganda.
Books by Ron Paul: Propaganda.
Bumper stickers: Propaganda.
Half the people on this site post all over the internet with their world view and link to websites like:
The miss institute.
The daily paul.
Ron Paul forums.
Ron Paul flix.

ITs all propaganda.
We call it "educating the masses" as if the liberals and necons don't say or think the same thing when they put out their crap.
We have our musicians and comics and books too you know. Video games and movies... they exist and plant the seeds of liberty. But at the end of the day its about what is selling. Liberty has been sitting in the surplus stores, and haggled off as cheap firewood for the last hundred years. But its finding itself back on the shelves these days as the stuff begins to sell out again.

I agree with you, but we're not gonna get a platform like glenn beck had tomorrow, by simply by realizing it. But the above is how it starts, so rest assured that it is happening. But if you have ideas to make it better that are within the immediate realm of possibility then by all means contribute your ideas to these forums please.

Yes but this is maybe 10-15% of all of our efforts. What I'm saying is that people should drop everything else and only focus on this. Not just a few, but everyone because nothing will change unless we can win the propaganda war. It's like trying to put only 15% of your effort into building a foundation of a house and have the rest already start on the walls and roof, it can't work.

Also while I think Freedom Watch is doing a pretty good job, there's always room for improvement. Our propaganda needs to have goals specified so everyone can work in that direction it needs to have research done so we know how to best reach people and it needs to be "broadcasted" on all levels, from TV show to people talking to their friends and strangers.

moostraks
11-03-2011, 07:50 AM
Let's pretend for a second we are aliens that just discovered Earth and the human species. Let's pretend we observe how they behave and then try to come up with theories about their behavior, how it's driven, what rules govern it, ect

Now you observe a few humans that when making a decision show incredible commitment to reason and logic, you observe this small group carefully studying the empirical evidence of their surroundings before making any decisions about their lives.

I on the other hand observe a far larger group of humans, say around 85%, who although also capable of sensing the empirical evidence do not share the same commitment to logic and reason. In fact I observe them being governed by their primitive reasoning mechanism - emotions. Neither of us understand why this is so, but that's what the empirical evidence of our observations of the human race show. I also observe that some of the humans have figured out special communicating skills that allow them to steer this larger part of the population in a certain direction in certain areas of their daily life and they call this type of communicating propaganda.

Now suppose we decide it's time to reveal ourselves to them. Suppose we are afraid of their response which we'd like it to be a positive one. On one hand we know that we can reason with about 15% of them but on the other hand we also know that about 85% of them will listen to their emotions instead, and that worries us.




My question to you is this: In the above scenario we have two options:
A) we try to approach the humans with reason and logic, we try to educate them through empirical evidence of our intentions and nature
B) we try to compose our message in the same way as we learned the humans compose propaganda to govern other humans and we make our approach that way


Which one do you rationally think has a better chance of yielding the desired result? Be honest.

p.s.: I don't care if propaganda has a negative connotation, because I understand what it is and I have no moral dilemmas in using it. In fact it would be denying our human nature and the way most of us communicate to do so.

p.s.2: Developing our own propaganda and finding an effective way of spreading without the MSM is the only rational (not reasonable) way to win. This is what the facts of reality are. If you disagree, it's like disagreeing with gravity.

Most of society is embracing the mind numbing titillation put forth by msm. You are going to have to compete hardcore with that AND persuade them that your venue is worth their energy. Many of us here were well aware that time would only come for many when the masses feel the pain of their bad choices. Slowly you are seeing an awakening but it lacks focus as many are calling for more of the same, so tptb are making lemonade from many of the lemons. We have numerous alternative media sources gaining traction but the other side has a significant advantage in what they control.

Using your analogy, your alien leader would have to participate in the charade. Good luck with that! Also a large contingent of the aliens would also have to support an alien leader using duplicity when they have been known to turn on their own and eat them. So you are losing some support there as well. As Osan said, "Without principle to guide our actions, we are no better than the scum we wish to see gone from power. This does not preclude creative application, but the right principles do circumscribe certain bright lines in the sand. Cross those at your own peril. " Some of us are not so sure when it comes to Rand because of his methods.

I think there might be more of an issue with there being a small minority of people that know or can grasp the right thing to do and are willing to do it. So appeal all you want to their emotions, you are dealing with a society of cannibals and the rule is to eat or get eaten. I think the majority don't want to embrace a minimal government, but want Walmart prices for enforcement of their flavor of tyranny.

Created4
11-03-2011, 07:55 AM
hazek: I was out all day yesterday and only saw this thread today. I appreciate what you are saying, but see one small flaw in your basic premise: that people make their own decisions, whether by logic or emotion or otherwise. I would disagree with that. Most people who are not logical thinking themselves, use the appeal to authority method of making decisions. They turn to someone they trust for advice. Therefore, one can affect a lot of change by reaching the decision makers - those people others look up to for advice and guidance. Creating a strategy for the sheeple only can be counter-productive. You have to reach the shepherds who control the sheep.

Also, I don't think the real "new" media that already exists has been discussed much at all. This is how Ron Paul has gotten to where he is today. That media is the Internet, and what has changed today that is different from 2007 is Facebook. People spend more time on Facebook than they do watching MSM. An effective Facebook campaign, targeting key people/pages that people follow, could potentially reach MORE than MSM.

Eric21ND
11-28-2011, 04:48 AM
Whoa, 4 hours long!?
Watch it in chunks, that's what I did.

KevinR
11-28-2011, 12:51 PM
I enjoyed it

_b_
11-28-2011, 07:15 PM
Watch it in chunks, that's what I did.
Same here, it is worth it.

libertyfanatic
11-28-2011, 07:37 PM
I've watched half of it so far. Good documentary.

DamianTV
11-28-2011, 07:57 PM
I need to bump this so I can watch it later. Dont have 4 hours right now...