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View Full Version : Is OWS rooted in Anarchism?




Todd
10-31-2011, 04:32 PM
So says this writer...Dan Berrett at The Chronicle of Higher Education

A friend of mine who's a devout socialist sent me this article.

Entire article here:

http://chronicle.com/article/Intellectual-Roots-of-Wall/129428/




But Occupy Wall Street's most defining characteristics—its decentralized nature and its intensive process of participatory, consensus-based decision-making—are rooted in other precincts of academe and activism: in the scholarship of anarchism and, specifically, in an ethnography of central Madagascar.



It was on this island nation off the coast of Africa that David Graeber, one of the movement's early organizers, who has been called one of its main intellectual sources, spent 20 months between 1989 and 1991. He studied the people of Betafo


In Betafo he observed what he called "consensus decision-making," where residents made choices in a direct, decentralized way, not through the apparatus of the state. "Basically, people were managing their own affairs autonomously," he says.

The process is what scholars of anarchism call "direct action." For example, instead of petitioning the government to build a well, members of a community might simply build it themselves. It is an example of anarchism's philosophy, or what Mr. Graeber describes as "democracy without a government."


Would love some others here to give some feedback. I could actually believe it if the majority of the movement weren't petitioning the government to be the arbiter of this so called "consensus based decision making". Seems like Bulls*** to me.

pcosmar
10-31-2011, 05:29 PM
So says this writer...Dan Berrett at The Chronicle of Higher Education

A friend of mine who's a devout socialist sent me this article.

Entire article here:

http://chronicle.com/article/Intellectual-Roots-of-Wall/129428/


Would love some others here to give some feedback. I could actually believe it if the majority of the movement weren't petitioning the government to be the arbiter of this so called "consensus based decision making". Seems like Bulls*** to me.
Some of those that were motivations behind it have anarchist beliefs,, some are progressives, some were libertarian.

I had heard of David Graeber. I don't know how much influence he had, but perhaps.
David Degraw has been one of the motavators, and I have read some of his stuff. He coined the "99%" in his writings.

Todd
11-03-2011, 10:14 AM
Some of those that were motivations behind it have anarchist beliefs,, some are progressives, some were libertarian.

I had heard of David Graeber. I don't know how much influence he had, but perhaps.
David Degraw has been one of the motavators, and I have read some of his stuff. He coined the "99%" in his writings.

I'm curious now after seeing some of the pictures coming out of Occupy Oakland at what many of the Anarchists think about the movement being linked to that philosophy.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-occupy-oakland-pictures,0,4120033.photogallery

some of these people are using the Anarchy symbol. Do you think they really know what it means or are they just using it to make some sort of piss poor statement?

Many of these people look like children

mczerone
11-03-2011, 10:20 AM
I'm curious now after seeing some of the pictures coming out of Occupy Oakland at what many of the Anarchists think about the movement being linked to that philosophy.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-occupy-oakland-pictures,0,4120033.photogallery

some of these people are using the Anarchy symbol. Do you think they really know what it means or are they just using it to make some sort of piss poor statement?

Many of these people look like children

Who was using the anarchy symbol? Do you know if they were anarchists (philosophically), vulgar anarchists (chaos-ists), or cops holding anarchy signs?

It's sad that violence broke out in Oakland, but how many years will it take to reveal that it was a cop who started the melee? More or less time than Kent State?

dannno
11-03-2011, 10:26 AM
Well I live in a really progressive area, and it seems like the bigger day time protests around here are dominated by progressives. However, of the hardcore activist group organizing everything and camping out in front of city hall and risking getting arrested, most of them are anarchists.

Bosco Warden
11-03-2011, 10:32 AM
Maybe OWS is just tired of taking it in the ass for decades on end, with no end in sight.

maybe thats it?

I am getting tired of hearing this shit all the time, what is the opposite of this, these people just STFU and keep getting trillions of tax dollars strapped to God knows many generations of our youth.

I wonder, why are YOU not doing a fucking thing? are you a Marxist?

Keep the propaganda over in the Gay bay. They love and want socialism.

Todd
11-03-2011, 10:40 AM
Well I live in a really progressive area, and it seems like the bigger day time protests around here are dominated by progressives. However, of the hardcore activist group organizing everything and camping out in front of city hall and risking getting arrested, most of them are anarchists.

Hmm. Never experienced that before. Most Progressives in my area are the ones that push the envelope and ratchet up the aggression. Most of the anarchists including ones on this board, tend to be about non violence.

nbhadja
11-03-2011, 10:51 AM
Sure indigenous people (who are the real anarchists) do have consensus based decision making and do distribute resources like their food from hunting in a socialist manner, but it is important to note that they have no government. They do have elders/chiefs/counsels who lead the tribe, but it is far different than what a leader is in a political sense.

Jingles
11-03-2011, 10:53 AM
If there are any they are probably Anarcho-syndicalists.

rp08orbust
11-03-2011, 10:57 AM
Any act of civil disobedience is an expression of anarchism, whether the disobedient recognize it or not.

When disobeying a cop's orders to move, a person is essentially rejecting the state's property claims and privatizing the property they're occupying as their own.

Sola_Fide
11-03-2011, 10:57 AM
Sure.

There are a lot more collectivist anarchists than individualist anarchists.

fisharmor
11-03-2011, 11:06 AM
If there are any they are probably Anarcho-syndicalists.
How does this jive with the obvious anti-corporate tone of OWS?
Aren't anarchosyndicalists essentially the most pro-corporation group out there?

Brian4Liberty
11-03-2011, 11:07 AM
some of these people are using the Anarchy symbol. Do you think they really know what it means or are they just using it to make some sort of piss poor statement?


They painted Anarchy As on the grocery store they vandalized in Oakland. Are they really Anarchists? Who knows. Actions like that just confirm the media's portrayal of Anarchists as nothing more than vandals and criminals.

pcosmar
11-03-2011, 11:19 AM
I'm curious now after seeing some of the pictures coming out of Occupy Oakland at what many of the Anarchists think about the movement being linked to that philosophy.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-occupy-oakland-pictures,0,4120033.photogallery

some of these people are using the Anarchy symbol. Do you think they really know what it means or are they just using it to make some sort of piss poor statement?

Many of these people look like children

Adbusters brought a lot of "Marxist" and "Anarchist" idiots.
Adbusters did not start nor do they control these protests, They joined later, but did bring a bunch of folks.

Brian4Liberty
11-03-2011, 11:33 AM
Adbusters brought a lot of "Marxist" and "Anarchist" idiots.
Adbusters did not start nor do they control these protests, They joined later, but did bring a bunch of folks.

Actually, we are talking Berkeley/Oakland. All that is required to bring out the vandals (of all stripes) is any event where there are a lot of people out in the streets. No organization is required.

Brian4Liberty
11-03-2011, 12:29 PM
From Oakland:

http://a57.foxnews.com/static/managed/img/U.S./660/371/occuoycover.gif

pcosmar
11-03-2011, 12:41 PM
Is OWS rooted in Anarchism?

Rooted in???

Or joined in? How many of those alleged anarchists are hired provocateurs?

Brian4Liberty
11-03-2011, 12:48 PM
Or joined in?

Protests are a distraction from the boredom of an easy life. Raging against the machine is a way to pass some time.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efsm6aJPybg

dannno
11-03-2011, 12:53 PM
Hmm. Never experienced that before. Most Progressives in my area are the ones that push the envelope and ratchet up the aggression. Most of the anarchists including ones on this board, tend to be about non violence.

I didn't say anything about violence, I'm talking about camping out on a lawn.

Not sure what the ratio is of anarchists vs. anarcho-capitalists, but I know there are some anarcho-capitalists in the group.

Warrior_of_Freedom
11-03-2011, 12:55 PM
Wow, there are a lot of keyboard warriors here.

CaptUSA
11-03-2011, 01:00 PM
You want an easy way to keep these protests from becoming violent?

Make a broadcast statement that anyone caught vandalizing property or engaging in any sort of violence will no longer be able to collect any sort of government assistance - ever. It worked in London.

I will bet you that you will see how few "anarchists" there are.

pcosmar
11-03-2011, 01:00 PM
Wow, there are a lot of keyboard warriors here.

The internet is my connection to the world.

I am located far from any large urban areas. And unemployed.(travel is out of the question)

I do discuss "stuff" with many folks though.

Rothbardian Girl
11-03-2011, 01:02 PM
How does this jive with the obvious anti-corporate tone of OWS?
Aren't anarchosyndicalists essentially the most pro-corporation group out there?
They certainly are not pro-corporate-hierarchy, from what I can tell. I think their issues are not inherently with corporations or shared decision-making, but with the typical pyramid structure of corporate bureaucracy and hierarchy. So I think it would be fair to characterize them as "anti-actually-existing-corporations". Certainly, I would expect just about all of them at the very least to be against special corporate privileges, which is usually what we at RPF tend to talk about when we discuss anti-corporatism.