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AuH20
10-26-2011, 12:53 PM
Enjoy!

http://socialistworker.org/2011/10/26/libertarians-ideas-dont-belong


ANYONE WHO has been to a protest or General Assembly of the Occupy movement recognizes right away the amazing openness and welcoming atmosphere. These are places where political ideas can be discussed and debated, and where people whose ideas are ordinarily never heard are heard. This, along with its anti-corporate message, is what has attracted so many people to the Occupy movement.

This openness and respect for the right to express ideas is one of the strengths of Occupy. But debates over what kinds of ideas make the movement stronger--and which do not--also have a place. It's not just the case that political campaigns like Ron Paul's have no place in a movement that's independent of the two parties. Some ideas are actually counterproductive--because they are in disagreement with building a movement committed to opposing Wall Street greed.

Ideas like those espoused by Ron Paul and his libertarian supporters, such as opposition to government social programs, are the opposite of what the Occupy movement is about. We need more taxes on the rich and corporations, with the money devoted to helping workers and the poor, by increasing the quality of public schools or providing an effective social safety net.

Likewise, there is no place for ideas that divide us and make our movement weaker by vilifying undocumented immigrants or trade unions. We need political discussion and participation that builds solidarity and unity within the Occupy movement.

bluesc
10-26-2011, 12:57 PM
a movement that's independent of the two parties :rolleyes:

Why is it that their ad that had the fed as one of the issues showed video of Alan Grayson and Bernie fucking Sanders, but not Ron Paul?

I don't take this guy as the spokesperson for the entire movement, but I agree, wtf are we doing there when we are trying to win Iowa?

dannno
10-26-2011, 01:12 PM
What an idiot, it's just one person's opinion though, and not the opinion that most people at the occupy protests have at all. The people who understand the true spirit of the movement realize that we are ALL the 99%, fighting against the <1% who control the banks, government, large corporations, etc..

Ron Paul does not vilify undocumented immigrants, in fact quite the opposite. He also doesn't vilify trade unions, only the ones who receive special benefits from govt.

Romulus
10-26-2011, 01:15 PM
oh goodie.. more opinions on OWS. :rolleyes:

jkr
10-26-2011, 01:21 PM
some of these "people" are just the next gen statist- YOUR FUTURE OVERSEER-they are interviewing

pcosmar
10-26-2011, 01:24 PM
oh goodie.. more opinions on OWS. :rolleyes:

Yup,
Any and everything to keep people focused on everything other than the real problem.
The Global Banking Cartel. (Federal Reserve, IMF, World Bank) the original purpose of these protests.

Socialism is a problem. It is also ingrained in most folks and BOTH parties. It has been our system for 100 years and is everywhere else in the world.
It was socialism and socialists that created the Federal Reserve. (or perhaps socialists that created Fractional Reserve Banking)
Either way,,, more of it is not the solution.

acptulsa
10-26-2011, 01:25 PM
Our little socialist campout was founded on no principles but we're testy, and is a paragon of freedom and most particularly free speech. That said, ideas that are as anti corporatist as our own, yet not only make more sense but are so sensible, in fact, that we can't get away with sneering at them in our contemptuous superiority, are decidedly not welcome. I mean, free speech is well and good, but there are reasonable limits! Next thing you know, they'll be sneering at us for believing in a system which has repeately and without exception led to tyranny and widespread financial ruin. That would be no fun at all.

So, if you see some proponents of the usual two party mumbo jumbo, do debate them under the table and laugh at them. But if you see Ron Paul supporters, throw things at them or run for your lives before they win you from us!

dannno
10-26-2011, 01:33 PM
My response:


http://socialistworker.org/2011/10/26/libertarians-ideas-dont-belong

I disagree with this article because it is clear that the author does not understand what the occupy movement actually represents and is extremely politically biased. I have been to several different occupy protests, meetings and camps which have all been very open to libertarian opposition to the establishment.

The occupy movement actually represents the 99% of individuals who are made worse off by the <1% of individuals who own the large banks, corporations and financial institutions that control Wall St., The Federal Reserve Banking cartel and US Government who both openly and secretly rip off everyone, destroying the middle class. They achieve this through unconstitutional laws and regulations that protect themselves. To a libertarian, giving government more power is the same as giving banks and corporations more power to rip everyone off.

Also, not everybody in that 99% believes that theft through taxation is true charity, or that it even helps poor people. Companies who make good products at affordable prices and don't receive corporate welfare do a great deal to benefit society and decrease prices to help poor people live better lives. Becoming rich by providing for society is not greedy, it helps everybody's standard of living increase. These people should not be punished. The rich people who got that way by creating corporate welfare schemes, regulations that hurt small businesses and through the private banking cartel are greedy, they do not benefit society. The best way to stop them is to take away power from the government to fund their schemes.

The best way to decrease poverty is not to get a bunch of people reliant on government social programs, it is to increase the standard of living for everyone. This is best done through a free market. We don't have any semblance of a free market these days, the government controls industries to our detriment. That is why prices on healthcare, education, energy and housing have skyrocketed so much over the last couple of decades. It is a direct result of inflation from the Federal Reserve, who is lowering interest rates in order to prop up Wall St. and the housing market. Poor people fund that by paying higher prices later on.

Ron Paul does not vilify undocumented workers. In fact he was more of an advocate of open borders before NAFTA was passed and we had a large influx of immigrants due to our country destroying the Constitution of Mexico which allowed large corporations to swoop up huge swaths of land that belonged to agrarian communities across the country. He doesn't blame immigrants for their plight, but he also realizes that we are providing a huge amount of money in incentives for them to come up here when the incentive should be that we have good jobs for them. If we can get our economy back on track, then immigration will not be an issue, it will only help us achieve a better standard of living and Ron Paul understands this.

Also, Ron Paul wants to end the wars overseas immediately. I don't see any Democrat candidates who have a chance at the Presidency pushing for this. I didn't think it would happen in 2008 either, so I really made a good prediction there and initially supported Ron Paul and would have done so on that platform alone because I knew Obama was part of the establishment.

LibertyEagle
10-26-2011, 01:35 PM
What an idiot, it's just one person's opinion though, and not the opinion that most people at the occupy protests have at all. The people who understand the true spirit of the movement realize that we are ALL the 99%, fighting against the <1% who control the banks, government, large corporations, etc..

Ron Paul does not vilify undocumented immigrants, in fact quite the opposite.

He won't assign them all blame for our current situation, no. But, he also doesn't agree with them breaking our immigration law; nor, will he agree to give them amnesty.


He also doesn't vilify trade unions, only the ones who receive special benefits from govt.

It's a little more than that, Danno. As far as trade unions go, he darn sure does vilify the ones that are forced upon the workers.

From the campaign website:

FORCED UNIONISM VIOLATES THE CONSTITUTION
Freedom of association is one of the foundations of a free society. The Founders clearly understood this, which is why they sought to protect this God-given right in the First Amendment.

While Ron Paul supports the right of every American to join a private sector union if they wish, he believes, like most Americans, that forcing workers to pay union dues just to get or keep a job is wrong.

Unfortunately, over 75 years ago, the right to decide freely whether or not to join a labor union was taken away from American workers by Congress.

BIG LABOR’S FORCED-DUES EMPIRE
As a result, national union bosses rake in $8 billion every year from workers who are forced to pay dues to a labor union just to provide for themselves and their families.

Then, to add insult to injury, Big Labor uses this forced-dues money to bankroll the campaigns of tax-and-spend, big government politicians all across the country like Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, and Barack Obama!

A PRO-RIGHT TO WORK RECORD
That’s why Ron Paul has been a strong supporter of the National Right to Work Act in Congress.

Passage of a National Right to Work law would end forced union dues by repealing compulsory-dues provisions in federal labor law.

In addition to his support for a National Right to Work law, he also voted to defeat Big Labor’s “Card Check” scheme.

This bill would have eliminated secret ballot elections for union organizers – allowing union bosses to intimidate workers into signing themselves over to union boss control.

And he voted against the Police and Firefighter Monopoly Bargaining Bill.

This legislation was designed to put all American police and firefighters under the union bosses’ control – just the first step toward forcing all state and local public employees under Big Labor’s thumb.

Ron Paul’s exceptional record on Right to Work issues earned him the prestigious Everett Dirksen Award from the National Right to Work Committee.

And he’s been proud to receive the support of the National Right to Work Committee in each and every one of his Congressional elections over the years.

As President, he will continue to lead the fight to free Americans from the shackles of compulsory unionism by working to pass a National Right to Work law.
http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/right-to-work/

Rothbardian Girl
10-26-2011, 01:36 PM
Some of you really need to read this piece: http://c4ss.org/content/8737

It identifies the real problem with the OWS movement -- from a "leftist" perspective. (And besides, anyone that calls Michael Moore "rightist" is OK in my book!)

I'll just post some relevant portions of the opinion here (I took out some of the biggest paragraphs, so if you're really interested, I recommend reading the whole thing):

Center for a Stateless Society Media Coordinator Tom Knapp, summarizing his experience with the Occupy St. Louis movement, reported a movement “with an ideological center of gravity somewhere in the neighborhood of ‘mild reform Democrat.’” Most of the people there, apparently, were basically Coffee Party people with better signs and slogans.

They’re probably not representative of the nationwide Occupy Together movement — the vibe coming from Occupy Wall Street, at least, is a lot more like Seattle. But there really is a contradiction in the movement between those who see it as part of a larger process of creating a new kind of society, and those who see it primarily as a source of pressure on the state to revive the New Deal or Social Democratic model.

Doug Henwood of the Left Business Observer recently described the agenda — “Jobs for All” — unanimously approved by the OWS Demands Working Group (LBO News, October 20). “The anarchists are not happy about this,” he writes, “and are trying to block its adoption by the General Assembly.”

Henwood makes no bones about his support for the agenda, encouraging readers who agree with him to make their support felt. As for those who don’t like it, “please reflect on the size of the potential constituency for this agenda compared with that for your own.”

Among the expedients for “creating jobs” is a massive project to “rebuild infrastructure” — an approach well-loved by the Michael Moore “progressive” wing of the Democratic Party, but fundamentally antagonistic to the portion of the movement with a more or less anarchistic vision of a post-corporate alternative economy.

The “Jobs for All” agenda is essentially a return to a greenwashed version of the centralized corporate-state Consensus Capitalism of the mid-20th century. That model relied on massive waste and capital investment boondoggles by the state to guarantee full utilization of capacity and full employment — the very pathologies of corporate capitalism that the folks at Monthly Review have been pointing to for years. Just leave the centralized, capital-intensive, bureaucratic structure of Galbraithian capitalism intact, and then let the state build a new (but greenwashed!) Interstate Highway System every ten years to keep it running at capacity. Then everybody can work forty hours a week at a “job” doing things at least half of which are the moral equivalent of digging holes and filling them back in again, in an economy organized by Rube Goldberg. It’s the world depicted in the movie “Brazil.”

In other words, we’ve got a bunch of “Leftists” who are nostalgic for retro capitalism.

[...]

Those “roads and bridges?” The Interstate — created under the supervision of that great “progressive” Charlie Wilson, who said what’s good for GM is good for America — gave us suburban sprawl and enabled Wal-Mart’s big box/warehouses on wheels model to destroy Main Street.

Of course there are problems with the OWS movement. The problem is the New Deal faction, not the more "leftist" faction.

freshjiva
10-26-2011, 01:39 PM
OWS is an open movement. It is not conducted on private property nor is it a private organization, therefore no one individual or group has a monopoly on its message and/or solutions. Likewise for the Tea Party.

LibertyEagle
10-26-2011, 01:39 PM
I don't see the problem with people going there and trying to plant some seeds. The only concern I ever had was about associating Ron Paul with what was going on down there. As long as people don't do that, I don't see what the harm could be.

DamianTV
10-26-2011, 01:48 PM
The Promotion of Socialism has become a Bipartisan issue. OWS has nothing to do with Socialism or Libertarianism. It is the people finally getting pissed because they have realized that have been completely screwed over by the Banks. Its not to say that only Libertarians, based on their philosophy, are the only ones getting screwed, but based on Socialist opinions, they are not getting screwed. Screwing someone over is screwing someone over. Its like trying to say that the size of a Political Boundary the the border of a state or a country has anything to do with the Median Velocity of a Sparrow travelling south at 12:42PM GMT. They are unrelated issues, but not even really worth addressing.

FrankRep
10-26-2011, 01:48 PM
I don't see the problem with people going there and trying to plant some seeds. The only concern I ever had was about associating Ron Paul with what was going on down there. As long as people don't do that, I don't see what the harm could be.
I've been the most outspoken against OWS, but all I've said was not to associate Ron Paul with the OWS movement.
People are lying if they think I told them not to go to OWS. Hell, I say go and enjoy the freak show, but have low expectations.

specsaregood
10-26-2011, 01:54 PM
Well if this hack is telling us we have no place there, then by all means we should swarm.

BuddyRey
10-26-2011, 02:02 PM
Nobody died and left this one guy in charge of deciding OWS's agenda. The Occupy movement will only be guided and defined by those who take an active role in it. All the more reason, IMO, for friends of liberty to get involved, try to change hearts and minds, and, failing that, at least help steer the movement on a far saner course than the one it has thusfar taken.

nobody's_hero
10-26-2011, 05:12 PM
Lol, poor author thinks that Ron Paul's campaign is about 'politics.'

dannno
10-26-2011, 05:16 PM
It's a little more than that, Danno. As far as trade unions go, he darn sure does vilify the ones that are forced upon the workers.


Ya, those are the ones I was referring to that receive special protection from govt. It could be some sort of licensing scheme, or all kinds of things.

dannno
10-26-2011, 05:21 PM
Of course there are problems with the OWS movement. The problem is the New Deal faction, not the more "leftist" faction.

lol, well, I can tell you my roommate who is a Zeitgeist Movement activist would say that a "jobs for all" platform is really ignorant. That is because he believes in full automation and going towards the "jobs for no-one" strategy where everybody has everything they need. Of course the free market could lead to something along those lines, as things we need would become cheaper and cheaper until you only have to work an hour a week or something for everything you need (as more of production becomes automated)

Miss Annie
10-26-2011, 05:58 PM
I think that the ORIGINS of OWS are socialist. What I mean by that... is I believe that the movement was BORN by the government and the Socialist and Communist party. Yea, I do believe the conspiracy theory, because I have seen the 18,000 emails that were found on a google group from and by the organizers. I do however believe that people with capitalistic ideals who want reformation in the government are out there because of the state of this economy and they seriously can't find jobs. I do also believe that the socialist groups are still agitating and creating upset in the streets because their goal is to take over the government. That is most quickly affected through chaos. I think that is why the socialists groups are having to hire people to protest, because the anti-socialists are out looking for work and trying to pay their light bills and buy food for their babies.
I do so wish that the anti-socialist protesters would separate themselves from the socialists, communists, and nazis. I believe they would get taken a whole lot more seriously and not lump them in with dissidents.

pcosmar
10-26-2011, 06:08 PM
Yea, I do believe the conspiracy theory, because I have seen the 18,000 emails that were found on a google group from and by the organizers.

By the organizers? Really.
Who do you think the organizers are? Since the invitation had been posted HERE. And it was posted HERE before Adbusters was even involved.

I think Adbusters involvement was a mistake,,, But the invitation was out to everyone.
They stepped up with the social network.(and the baggage that came along)
It was Adbusters that created the occupywallstreet web site.

Miss Annie
10-26-2011, 06:19 PM
Read here...... I don't want to post the whole article as I posted it the other day. You can download these thousands of emails into a csv file.
They even reference the involvement of George Soros before the first protest started.

http://biggovernment.com/thomasryan/2011/10/14/the-email-archive-of-the-occupywallstreet-movement-anarchists-socialists-jihadists-unions-democrats/

Miss Annie
10-26-2011, 06:23 PM
There is also a video on this page.

EXCLUSIVE: ACORN Playing Behind Scenes Role in 'Occupy' Movement

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/26/exclusive-acorn-playing-behind-scenes-role-in-occupy-movement/#ixzz1bw9gw9Uv



The former New York office for ACORN, the disbanded community activist group, is playing a key role in the self-proclaimed “leaderless” Occupy Wall Street movement, organizing “guerrilla” protest events and hiring door-to-door canvassers to collect money under the banner of various causes while spending it on protest-related activities, sources tell FoxNews.com.

The former director of New York ACORN, Jon Kest, and his top aides are now busy working at protest events for New York Communities for Change (NYCC). That organization was created in late 2009 when some ACORN offices disbanded and reorganized under new names after undercover video exposes prompted Congress to cut off federal funds.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/26/exclusive-acorn-playing-behind-scenes-role-in-occupy-movement/#ixzz1bw9ai9HK



NYCC’s connection to ACORN isn’t a tenuous one: It works from the former ACORN offices in Brooklyn, uses old ACORN office stationery, employs much of the old ACORN staff and, according to several sources, engages in some of the old organization’s controversial techniques to raise money, interest and awareness for the protests.

Sources said NYCC has hired about 100 former ACORN-affiliated staff members from other cities – paying some of them $100 a day - to attend and support Occupy Wall Street. Dozens of New York homeless people recruited from shelters are also being paid to support the protests, at the rate of $10 an hour, the sources said.

At least some of those hired are being used as door-to-door canvassers to collect money that’s used to support the protests.

Sources said cash donations collected by NYCC on behalf of some unions and various causes are being pooled and spent on Occupy Wall Street. The money is used to buy supplies, pay staff and cover travel expenses for the ex-ACORN members brought to New York for the protests.

In one such case, sources said, NYCC staff members collected cash donations for what they were told was a United Federation of Teachers fundraising drive, but the money was diverted to the protests.

Sources who participated in the teachers union campaign said NYCC supervisors gave them the addresses of union members and told them to go knock on their doors and ask for contributions—and did not mention that the money would go toward Occupy Wall Street expenses. One source said the campaign raked in about $5,000.

Current staff members at NYCC told FoxNews.com the union fundraising drive was called off abruptly last week, and they were told NYCC should not have been raising money for the union at all.

Sources said staff members also collected door-to-door for NYCC’s PCB campaign — which aims to test schools for deadly toxins —but then pooled that money together with cash raised for the teachers union and other campaigns to fund Occupy Wall Street.

“We go to Freeport, Central Islip, Park Slope, everywhere, and we say we’re collecting money for PCBs testing in schools. But the money isn’t going to the campaign," one source said.

"It’s going to Occupy Wall Street, and we’re not using that money to get schools tested for deadly chemicals or to make their kids safer. It’s just going to the protests, and that’s just so terrible.”

A spokesman for the United Federation of Teachers told FoxNews.com, "The UFT is not involved in any NYCC fundraising on the PCB issue.”

Multiple sources said NYCC is also using cash donations through canvassing efforts in New York’s Harlem and Washington Heights neighborhoods for union-backed campaigns to fund the Wall Street protests.

“All the money collected from canvasses is pooled together back at the office, and everything we’ve been working on for the last year is going to the protests, against big banks and to pay people’s salaries—and those people on salary are, of course, being paid to go to the protests every day,” one NYCC staff member told FoxNews.com.

Those who contribute don't know the money is going to fund the protests, the source said.

“They give contributions because we say if they do we can fix things - whatever specific problem they’re having in their area, housing, schools, whatever ... then we spend the contributions paying staff to be at the protests all day, every day. That’s where these contributions - the community’s money – is going,” the source said.

“They’re doing the same stuff now that got ACORN in trouble to begin with. And yes, we’re still ACORN, there is a still a national ACORN.”

Another source, who said she was hired from a homeless shelter, said she was first sent to the protests before being deployed to Central Islip, Long Island, to canvass for a campaign against home foreclosures.

“I went to the protests every day for two weeks and made $10 an hour. They made me carry NYCC signs and big orange banners that say NYCC in white letters. About 50 others were hired around my time to go to the protests. We went to protests in and around Zuccotti Park, then to the big Times Square protest,” she said.

“But now they have me canvassing on Long Island for money, so I get the money and then the money is being used for Occupy Wall Street—to pay for all of it, for supplies, food, transportation, salaries, for everything ... all that money is going to pay for the protests downtown and that’s just messed up. It’s just wrong.”

Neither Kest, NYCC executive director, nor his communications director returned repeated email and telephone requests for comment, nor did his communications director. A Fox News producer who visited the Brooklyn office on Tuesday was told, "The best people to speak to who are involved with Occupy Wall Street aren't available."

But the organization responded to this story late Wednesday, alerting a FoxNews.com reporter by Twitter message to a statement posted on its website that called the story a "smear campaign."

"Fox News is trying to discredit Occupy Wall Street. New York Communities for Change is a new organization that fights for low- and moderate-income families," the agency said in the online statement, credited to board member Linnette Ebanks. "We don't pay protesters and any monies raised by NYCC's canvass are used in support of our ongoing issue campaigns. Period."

The statement also argued that Occupy Wall Street is "an organic movement" that has the support of most Americans.

When FoxNews.com asked through Twitter for a follow-up interview with Kest, NYCC Deputy Director Greg Basta declined, saying the organization will let the written statement "speak for itself."

In a phone interview on Tuesday, Harrison Schultz, an Occupy Wall Street spokesman, said he knew nothing about NYCC’s involvement in the Occupy movement.

“Haven’t seen them, couldn’t tell you,” he said.

He said he couldn’t comment on the Occupy the Boardroom website’s relationship to the movement and to NYCC.

“It’s a horizontal organization, a leaderless organization, it’s difficult to explain it,” Schultz said, “difficult to explain it to people who haven’t worked in this, who haven’t been part of it.”

Kest publicly threw his organization’s support behind the movement in a Sept. 30 opinion piece on HuffingtonPost.com. But top ex-ACORN staff members and current NYCC officials have been planning events like the Occupy Wall Street protests since February, a source within the group told FoxNews.com.

That’s when planning began for May 12 protests against Chase bank foreclosures, which were followed by the formation of the Beyond May 12 campaign, targeting Wall Street and big banks. That campaign was rolled out by a coalition of community groups and unions and led by the revamped former ACORN group.

“What people don’t understand is that ACORN is behind this — and that this, what’s happening now, is all part of the May 12 and Beyond May 12 plans to go after the banks, Chase in particular,” a source said.

Sources said NYCC was a key player behind a series of recent Occupy Wall Street events, including the Oct. 11 Millionaires March, which brought protests and union and community groups on walking tours of Upper East Side homes of wealthy New Yorkers; and the launch of the “Occupy the Boardroom” website, registered to Kest, which encouraged protesters to contact high-profile bankers, among others.

Fox News’ Shira Bush contributed reporting.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/26/exclusive-acorn-playing-behind-scenes-role-in-occupy-movement/#ixzz1bw9RYHwk

pcosmar
10-26-2011, 06:48 PM
Read here....

Yeah,I read that. The ignorant fucks that wrote that are as clueless as the idiots that showed up to demand handouts.

It started in Feb 2010.
The first attempted demonstration was in March. OpESR


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7D6neBzTnOQ

Few showed up, They called out for more to join them.
Adbusters joined later. They did NOT start it.

Miss Annie
10-27-2011, 09:34 AM
That does not surprise me and I don't think that this movement spontaneously combusted on Sept 17.
I think that it has been planned for a very long time.
It is my opinion it is ALL (the sabatoged economy, the removal of civil liberties, and the protests, etc...) a part of the move that is trying to be pushed towards global governance.

pcosmar
10-27-2011, 09:46 AM
That does not surprise me and I don't think that this movement spontaneously combusted on Sept 17.
I think that it has been planned for a very long time.
It is my opinion it is ALL (the sabatoged economy, the removal of civil liberties, and the protests, etc...) a part of the move that is trying to be pushed towards global governance.

The "push" toward Global Governance has been going on a long time. The League of Nations and the United Nations are part of that push.

If anything,, this is a push back against the Global Banking Cartel that has been funding it.

Make no mistake. There will be a One World Government. That is inevitable.
I will oppose it and resist it by any and all means. Resistance to Global Banks is just one front.

Brooklyn Red Leg
10-27-2011, 10:04 AM
Well, surprise surpise...


The Occupy Wall Street (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/t/Occupy_Wall_Street)volunteer kitchen staff launched a “counter” revolution yesterday -- because they’re angry about working 18-hour days to provide food for “professional homeless” people and ex-cons masquerading as protesters.

For three days beginning tomorrow, the cooks will serve only brown rice and other spartan grub instead of the usual menu of organic chicken and vegetables, spaghetti bolognese, and roasted beet and sheep’s-milk-cheese salad.

They will also provide directions to local soup kitchens for the vagrants, criminals and other freeloaders who have been descending on Zuccotti Park in increasing numbers every day.


To show they mean business, the kitchen staff refused to serve any food for two hours yesterday in order to meet with organizers to air their grievances, sources said.

As the kitchen workers met with the “General Assembly’’ last night, about 300 demonstrators stormed from the park to Reade Street and Broadway, where they violently clashed with cops.

Officers made at least 10 arrests when rowdy demonstrators refused to get out of the street and stop blocking traffic. A dozen cops on scooters tried to force them back to the sidewalk. There were no reported injuries.

The demonstrators said they were angry over the violence in Oakland. After making their way to Union Square, many of the protesters returned to Zuccotti.

The Assembly announced the three-day menu crackdown announced earlier in the day -- insisting everybody would be fed something during that period.

Some protesters threatened that the high-end meals could be cut off completely if the vagrants and criminals don’t disperse.

Unhappiness with their unwelcome guests was apparent throughout the day.

“We need to limit the amount of food we’re putting out” to curb the influx of derelicts, said Rafael Moreno, a kitchen volunteer.

A security volunteer added that the cooks felt “overworked and underappreciated.”





http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/zuccotti_hell_kitchen_i5biNyYYhpa8MSYIL9xSDL

Seems the homeless aren't welcome. So much for this whole 'spirit of charity' and 'kumbaya' bullshit.

Ronulus
10-27-2011, 10:12 AM
How did you find this article? I hope you weren't browsing this socialist site.

FrankRep
10-27-2011, 10:16 AM
Well, surprise surpise...





http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/zuccotti_hell_kitchen_i5biNyYYhpa8MSYIL9xSDL

Seems the homeless aren't welcome. So much for this whole 'spirit of charity' and 'kumbaya' bullshit.





OWS: Damn Freeloaders Eat Our Food; Don't Give Back


http://multimedia.heraldinteractive.com/images/20111021/e87709_ltpoccuboston.jpg


Occupy Wall Street Movement Angry at Freeloaders and Homeless Invading the Park

- http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/tea-party-report/2011/oct/25/occupy-wall-street-chaos-money-disputes-freeloader/

- http://news.bostonherald.com/news/columnists/view/2011_1021reality_check_a_real_bum-mer/


"It's turning into us against, them," says a 36-year-old Occupy Boston protester quoted by the Boston Herald's Howie Carr. Wait, wasn't that the idea? Not exactly. It turns out that when he says "them," the guy is referring not to billionaire Jewish bankers but street vagrants. "They come in here and they're looking at it as a way of getting a free meal and a place to crash, which is totally fine, but they don't bring anything to the table at all."

The same is true in New York, where, according to the Daily News, "Zuccotti Park has become a haven for the homeless," who are abandoning shelters and camping out at the park, "enticed by the allure of free food and a community of open-minded people." But as in Boston, open-mindedness goes only so far. "We have compassion toward everyone. However, we have certain rules and guidelines," says Lauren Digioia, 26, who belongs to the "sanitation committee":




"If you're going to come here and get our food, bedding and clothing, have books and medical supplies for no charge, they need to give back," Digioia said. "There's a lot of takers here and they feel entitled."


As is often the case, the Onion anticipated all of this, in a 2002 article titled "Marxists' Apartment a Microcosm of Why Marxism Doesn't Work":



The filthy, disorganized apartment shared by three members of the Amherst College Marxist Society is a microcosm of why the social and economic utopia described in the writings of Karl Marx will never come to fruition, sources reported Monday. . . .

The situation is familiar to Donald Browning, author of Das Kouch: A History Of College Marxism, 1970-1998.

"When workers willfully become less productive, the economy of the household suffers," Browning said. "But in a society where a range of ability naturally exists, someone is bound to object to picking up the slack for others and end up getting all pissy, like Josh does."

According to Browning, the group's lack of productivity pervades their lives, with roommates encouraging each other to skip class or work to sit on the couch smoking pot and talking politics. . . .

The lack of funds and the resulting scarcity breeds not only discontent but also corruption. Although collectivism only works when all parties contribute to the fullest extent, Foyle hid the existence of a $245 paycheck from roommates so he would not have to pay his back rent, in essence refusing to participate in the forced voluntary taxation that is key to socialism. Even worse, Dorff, who is entrusted with bill collection and payment, recently pocketed $30, a theft he claimed was "for the heating bill" but was put toward buying drinks later that night.

dannno
10-27-2011, 10:37 AM
Wow, thanks for finally joining our side, FrankRep, and helping us to prove that not everybody at OWS is socialist.

Miss Annie
10-27-2011, 10:37 AM
[B]

As is often the case, the Onion anticipated all of this, in a 2002 article titled "Marxists' Apartment a Microcosm of Why Marxism Doesn't Work":



The filthy, disorganized apartment shared by three members of the Amherst College Marxist Society is a microcosm of why the social and economic utopia described in the writings of Karl Marx will never come to fruition, sources reported Monday. . . .

The situation is familiar to Donald Browning, author of Das Kouch: A History Of College Marxism, 1970-1998.

"When workers willfully become less productive, the economy of the household suffers," Browning said. "But in a society where a range of ability naturally exists, someone is bound to object to picking up the slack for others and end up getting all pissy, like Josh does."

According to Browning, the group's lack of productivity pervades their lives, with roommates encouraging each other to skip class or work to sit on the couch smoking pot and talking politics. . . .

The lack of funds and the resulting scarcity breeds not only discontent but also corruption. Although collectivism only works when all parties contribute to the fullest extent, Foyle hid the existence of a $245 paycheck from roommates so he would not have to pay his back rent, in essence refusing to participate in the forced voluntary taxation that is key to socialism. Even worse, Dorff, who is entrusted with bill collection and payment, recently pocketed $30, a theft he claimed was "for the heating bill" but was put toward buying drinks later that night.


Wow! That is very interesting! Exactly what's going on in the kitchen there.

Brian4Liberty
10-27-2011, 11:02 AM
If nothing else, this whole OWS movement will give a whole bunch of potential socialists real life experience in the implementation of socialism.

FrankRep
10-27-2011, 11:29 AM
If nothing else, this whole OWS movement will give a whole bunch of potential socialists real life experience in the implementation of socialism.

Boston Herald: (http://news.bostonherald.com/news/columnists/view/2011_1021reality_check_a_real_bum-mer/)

I take it all back. There is something positive going on down in Dewey Square: The trust-fund hippies are finally getting some reality-based education."

LOL.